GRENDEL MAINS REJOICE

[_4shes]

9 hours ago, GigabearPRIME said:

I was initially pretty hyped for his rework, but by the end of yesterday I came to realize I don't care how powerful he is. If I did, I wouldn't have been a Grendel main since he released. What I played him for was his unique playstyle. That's completely gone now. Eating everything was the entire point. Plenty of frames do this in different ways, Yareli will now have a 15m range moddable pull ability that can basically vortex the entire map with no limit on capacity. 

 

I see a lot of people rejoicing that Grendel can't shut down all the spawns. Except, he never did that. Feasted enemies respawn immediately. 

 

All in all it seems that my favorite frame received the biggest nerf to an ability that I know of and was redesigned largely to accommodate people who do not play him and never have.

I have to agree. With the nerf to his 1's capacity, he has lost a significant portion of his old playstyle and uniqueness and I am very sad to know that is going to be gone. 

[AntifreezeUnder0]

1 hour ago, _4shes said:

I have to agree. With the nerf to his 1's capacity, he has lost a significant portion of his old playstyle and uniqueness and I am very sad to know that is going to be gone. 

Yea. Well everything gonna be up to statistics. IF change imrpoved his usage , the numbers went down, or his ability subsumed for viral buff be off the charts :) and still he remains the unused one.

Rework improved his other abilities, but nerfed his whole purpose of glutony.

It be same like saryn can spread spore 90 m radius, but only max 2 enemies at time.

Or khora with dome can whipclaw only 1 enemy at time.

Or vaubans vortex when pulling in enemies work only on 3 enemies.

Or banshees silence works only on 1 enemy.

Or volt can ult and deal dmg max to 5 enemies.

But atm i just want to see, how things go. Since i enjoyed the silly catapulting and devouring 20 to 40 enemies in case of emergency. Or is excavation carrying like 10 + cell carriers.

[cute_moth.npc]

I'm not a Grendel main, I'm more like an "I have always liked Grendel a bit but found him too micromanagey to want to play a ton" associate pal ^^;

I don't know how I actually feel about some of the stuff in his rework, it seems less micromanagey but the identity is changed a ton too. It seems a little bit less panicky though, I want to try it at least!

How does something like having Viral as Nourish Strike work?

If I mod Toxin on my weapon, does it stay as Toxin and the Viral is separate, or is the toxin mixed with the viral to make it stronger but also the toxin is gone?

[AntifreezeUnder0]

1 hour ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm not a Grendel main, I'm more like an "I have always liked Grendel a bit but found him too micromanagey to want to play a ton" associate pal ^^;

I don't know how I actually feel about some of the stuff in his rework, it seems less micromanagey but the identity is changed a ton too. It seems a little bit less panicky though, I want to try it at least!

How does something like having Viral as Nourish Strike work?

If I mod Toxin on my weapon, does it stay as Toxin and the Viral is separate, or is the toxin mixed with the viral to make it stronger but also the toxin is gone?

Well it  should be viral, toxin unless you get some side buff for cold so your toxin become viral and viral buff from noruish just adds on top of it. Atleast it should work like that.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

I think something more exciting happened with this rework. If you look at the Prime release order for the next 2 years: Grendel's rework allows DE to essentially rework any warframe that they want: 

Prime Releases:

2023: Hildryn, Wisp, Gauss, Grendel

2024: Protea, Xaku, Lavos, Sevagoth

That lineup is stacked. Outside maybe Lavos needing a tweak that's quite a chunk of time where Primed Warframe's won't need a rework. This rework blew the doors open for essentially any older warframe requiring a rework to get it. Sound's like Inaros is next but the timing of Grendel's rework could not be better if you really think about it. 

[Yakhul]

Grendel Rework might be the greatest rework so far comparable to Wukong rework. I fear he may go down the same fate as Wukong. While still an amazing and powerful frame since the rework, Wukong was probably only used to have the celestial twin play for you. Would not surprise me if after rework, Grendel becomes so incredibly powerful with builds, that one of his abilities will have to be nerfed, just like Celestial Twin was.

[5-days]

6 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Grendel Rework might be the greatest rework so far comparable to Wukong rework. I fear he may go down the same fate as Wukong. While still an amazing and powerful frame since the rework, Wukong was probably only used to have the celestial twin play for you. Would not surprise me if after rework, Grendel becomes so incredibly powerful with builds, that one of his abilities will have to be nerfed, just like Celestial Twin was.

That is my exact fear. I'm used to playing with "meh" frames like yareli, grendel and caliban. Now that 2 out of my 3 "meh" frames are getting significantly better, i fear that a lot of people will start using them and thus the buffs will turn into nerfs soon.

[5-days]

Just now, 5-days said:

That is my exact fear. I'm used to playing with "meh" frames like yareli, grendel and caliban. Now that 2 out of my 3 "meh" frames are getting significantly better, i fear that a lot of people will start using them and thus the buffs will turn into nerfs soon.

Although Mag has been buffed to the ceiling with her 1 and 4 (augment) changes and still didn't get nerfed, so i guess i don't have to worry much.

[Hypernaut1]

9 minutes ago, 5-days said:

Although Mag has been buffed to the ceiling with her 1 and 4 (augment) changes and still didn't get nerfed, so i guess i don't have to worry much.

Mag still had an active playstyle though. I think she's one of the best designed frames. Her true power comes from combining abilities, gear and tactics. She's not the kind of frame where you push a button and nuke or CC an entire room. 

[5-days]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Mag still had an active playstyle though. I think she's one of the best designed frames. Her true power comes from combining abilities, gear and tactics. She's not the kind of frame where you push a button and nuke or CC an entire room. 

Doesn't her 4 do exactly that? Press 4 = entire room CC and armor strip. But that's not my point, I'm just afraid that when a warframe becomes "good enough" DE will nerf them to be back to "almost good".

[5-days]

Just now, 5-days said:

Doesn't her 4 do exactly that? Press 4 = entire room CC and armor strip. But that's not my point, I'm just afraid that when a warframe becomes "good enough" DE will nerf them to be back to "almost good".

And then I used Mag as an example of a warframe that is pretty good but didn't get nerfed after it became even better, so I hope the same won't happen to Grendel and Yareli, given that they are my favorite "meh" frames.

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, 5-days said:

Doesn't her 4 do exactly that? Press 4 = entire room CC and armor strip. But that's not my point, I'm just afraid that when a warframe becomes "good enough" DE will nerf them to be back to "almost good".

It's a very short temporary CC and locks her in place. It's not going to lock down rooms while she waltzing about nuking everything with an AOE. 

I don't think it's OP at all. 

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

It be same like saryn can spread spore 90 m radius, but only max 2 enemies at time.

Or khora with dome can whipclaw only 1 enemy at time.

Or vaubans vortex when pulling in enemies work only on 3 enemies.

Or banshees silence works only on 1 enemy.

Or volt can ult and deal dmg max to 5 enemies.

But atm i just want to see, how things go. Since i enjoyed the silly catapulting and devouring 20 to 40 enemies in case of emergency. Or is excavation carrying like 10 + cell carriers.

Not really sure how you think those examples are comparable. They dont even have any sense of balance behind them as opposed to the Grendel changes. You ignore that all skills will reach their cap with only 5 enemies held. What would Saryn, Khora, Vauban, Banshee and Volt get in return for having that extreme amount of functionality removed from their skills?

[AntifreezeUnder0]

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not really sure how you think those examples are comparable. They dont even have any sense of balance behind them as opposed to the Grendel changes. You ignore that all skills will reach their cap with only 5 enemies held. What would Saryn, Khora, Vauban, Banshee and Volt get in return for having that extreme amount of functionality removed from their skills?

Grendels niche was glutony. aka eating enemies. Of course the rest of the changes are nice. But update will show how nice or not they are.

 

What my point was, if those frame things got reduced and slap current meta(armor strip) on everything , they aint gonna be what made those frame fun. 

And atm grendel got touched/tweeked twice and both time got heavy nerf in eating department. 

So i hope the scaling dmg will be properly tweeked too. 

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Grendels niche was glutony. aka eating enemies. Of course the rest of the changes are nice. But update will show how nice or not they are.

 

What my point was, if those frame things got reduced and slap current meta(armor strip) on everything , they aint gonna be what made those frame fun. 

And atm grendel got touched/tweeked twice and both time got heavy nerf in eating department. 

So i hope the scaling dmg will be properly tweeked too. 

It was also the reason for so many issues and bandaid additions to him, like energy problems making them release an augment that makes it cost life instead and so on. Plus outside of endless, getting to the cap and making use of it was never really a thing, but now with a cap of 5 you can utilize his full potential versus practically any content you face, including bosses and archons, without having constant energy or life costs ontop of it. It wont be like gluttony is removed, you just need to use it less, which I think is fine considering it is a #1 skill.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It was also the reason for so many issues and bandaid additions to him, like energy problems making them release an augment that makes it cost life instead and so on. Plus outside of endless, getting to the cap and making use of it was never really a thing, but now with a cap of 5 you can utilize his full potential versus practically any content you face, including bosses and archons, without having constant energy or life costs ontop of it. It wont be like gluttony is removed, you just need to use it less, which I think is fine considering it is a #1 skill.

Yea, so managing to be at cap longer was rewarding. And emergency eat 40 enemies or as many as can was his essence. 

Meanwhile other frames who also had abilitiy to clear rooms ahead are untouched. 

But just need to see how good he is, but overall later on usage data should show if anything changed in his usage or just helminth subsume.

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

18 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm not a Grendel main, I'm more like an "I have always liked Grendel a bit but found him too micromanagey to want to play a ton" associate pal ^^;

I don't know how I actually feel about some of the stuff in his rework, it seems less micromanagey but the identity is changed a ton too. It seems a little bit less panicky though, I want to try it at least!

How does something like having Viral as Nourish Strike work?

If I mod Toxin on my weapon, does it stay as Toxin and the Viral is separate, or is the toxin mixed with the viral to make it stronger but also the toxin is gone?

You'll proc both toxin and viral, but there's still the issue of weighting. 

If you want to do steel Path Palus for an hour or two, using Nourish is gonna ruin your toxin procs.

[GigabearPRIME]

7 hours ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Yea, so managing to be at cap longer was rewarding. And emergency eat 40 enemies or as many as can was his essence. 

Meanwhile other frames who also had abilitiy to clear rooms ahead are untouched. 

 

 

 

Not only are frames that can delete rooms untouched(for now), but in the exact same update Yareli's riptide was turned into a full blown super-vortex. It has a MASSIVE capture radius of 15 meters at base and NO ENEMY LIMIT. 

Edit: Noticed in the patch notes it now decrease to 5 meters after 2 seconds. Still, a solid pull ability. 

[Draconis_36]

On 2022-11-29 at 1:55 PM, GigabearPRIME said:

He has 10 viral procs just in case nobody brought their panzers, somehow!

He can strip armor...oh right he could already do that WHILE CCing the planet. Or kill them if he didn't feel like waiting. Meatball forever? Could already be built for. You can go into it now with no enemies, but the damage and range will be utter garbage. It has a heal, but Grendel is already a frame you build to have healing from other sources.

 

His energy buff is nice, but we didn't need it because Gourmand already solved that problem.

 

I infused over feast. Worthless ability now along with his entire redundant kit. I am better off building for more defenses and just mowing them down with weapons.

 

My STUG is outputting more damage than Nu Grendel!

ah so you're  a Lazy Saryn Main then, gotcha.

[GigabearPRIME]

6 minutes ago, Draconis_36 said:

ah so you're  a Lazy Saryn Main then, gotcha.

I try to avoid playing META frames. Same reason I dropped Wukong well before the nerf, though he is my next used at 16% or so since Grendel didn't exist yet.