Expect swarms of "PLZ NERF X DUVIRI ENEMY/BOSS" when the update releases

[Yamazuki]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE seems to be the trendy kid who enjoys doing the classical copy paste flavor of the exciting poster child that performs the catwalk in Beverly Hills so he gets a scoop of the attention that the poster child is getting. 

 

Chasing after trends is fairly normal, the issue with the way it is on Warframe is that some of the new stuff DE implements isn't usable in the 'main' game. Warframe at this point may as well be multiple different smaller games attached to the bigger game called Warframe. Archwing, Railjack, Necramechs and now the Drifter combat all play differently to 'Warframe' and the progress made in these types of content don't transition. It's where the 'content island' complaints come from, and Duviri is unfortunately more of that.

[Felsagger]

 

2 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Yes, I don't mind that whatsoever. In fact I would encourage that if I wrote a particularly lengthy wall of text.

I wholeheartedly believe you do not have such intentions. Although judging by one particular thread about Duviri gameplay it is really damn hard to arrive at any conclusion arguing with you, which is why I will try my best not to do that.

It's very easy to arrive at a simple conclusion with my posts. Warframe is NOT a great game. Warframe is just an average GAAS game with below average graphics. However that doesn't make the game bad at all. There are good things in Warframe. 

That may help. 

[Felsagger]

40 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Chasing after trends is fairly normal, the issue with the way it is on Warframe is that some of the new stuff DE implements isn't usable in the 'main' game. Warframe at this point may as well be multiple different smaller games attached to the bigger game called Warframe. Archwing, Railjack, Necramechs and now the Drifter combat all play differently to 'Warframe' and the progress made in these types of content don't transition. It's where the 'content island' complaints come from, and Duviri is unfortunately more of that.

Duviri IS a content island but let's not get there yet. 

We need to be sure that THIS is the case when we play it in April 23. I can count on that 100 percent. 

[Kaiga]

On 2023-04-20 at 10:37 AM, ant99999 said:

Thirdly, uhh, I'm just tired of all those souls-like comparisons. Do you even believe them yourselves' honestly? Did you perhaps not ever actually play a souls-like to make this comparison? Idk, but that's getting old very quick.

The other statements were either answered or counter speculation, so let's go with what we have here-

Yes. Didn't you watch prime time yesterday? The drifter combat in duviri is far closer to an attack-and-recieve melee timed strikes slasher like sekrio or elden ring than the FPS horde shooter hallway hero stuff of mainlaine warframe. 

It is obvious that the developers were inspired by these souls games, so much so, that they've split off to go make one exactly like that called Soulframe.

They even put it in the name, if it wasn't already evident enough.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

The other statements were either answered or counter speculation, so let's go with what we have here-

Yes. Didn't you watch prime time yesterday? The drifter combat in duviri is far closer to an attack-and-recieve melee timed strikes slasher like sekrio or elden ring than the FPS horde shooter hallway hero stuff of mainlaine warframe. 

It is obvious that the developers were inspired by these souls games, so much so, that they've split off to go make one exactly like that called Soulframe.

They even put it in the name, if it wasn't already evident enough.

Kaiga, don't waste your time in him. 

We are not here to convince others. We know how things are. Let them figure things out by themselves. 

[ant99999]

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

Yes. Didn't you watch prime time yesterday? The drifter combat in duviri is far closer to an attack-and-recieve melee timed strikes slasher like sekrio or elden ring than the FPS horde shooter hallway hero stuff of mainlaine warframe. 

Yes it is indeed closer to that. It is equally closer to Skyrim, or Monster Hunter, or Black Desert, or whatever other melee heavy game, neither of which (I really do hope) you won't consider calling soulslikes.

You know what it is also closer to? New player Warframe experience. That's right, I encourage you to make a fresh start Warframe account right now, and see how much the gameplay throughout your early Starchart will be similar to showcased Duviri. Your ranged weapons will be underpowered without mods, your abilities not spammable with low efficiency, you will lean into melee-heavy combat, cause your Mk1-Bo will be the most powerful thing in your arsenal by far, especially against those more heavy enemies like moas or shield lancers. I'm quite honestly surprised so many people are missing this obvious similarity, yet are more than eager to jump on that "ThAt'S sOuLsLiKe" wagon.

It's funny, because you accuse DE of chasing trends, meanwhile you yourself follow the good ol' trend of labelling anything having a parry attack and a dodge roll a "soulslike".

 

And like

1 hour ago, Kaiga said:

Soulframe.

They even put it in the name, if it wasn't already evident enough.

wow, we keep digging deeper, don't we? The word "soul" used in the title is now enough to give anything that unmistakable Fromsoft charm, apparently.

I present to you then, the OG soulslike. It's so original it comes from 19 century, and so tough and challenging that it's a book. But have no doubts, just look at that badass title, must certainly have bonfires and stamina management inside it somewhere.

[Felsagger]

^Is this guy Russian? 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 3 horas, Kaiga dijo:

They even put it in the name, if it wasn't already evident enough

wow, I didn't know that beyond: two souls was a souls-like.

[Felsagger]

How about if we respect Kaiga for his opinion? How about that? 

If any of you, Leyenda or any other user don't share his views, fine, move on. Pablo's video gameplay, when I saw it the first time I thought it was a meme of Elden Ring. Even the enemy waits idle to be clubbed by the player. Camera lock is identical to Elden Ring, almost. 

I know that many things are different. But that notion is there. You don't share it. That's fine, let other people think whatever they want without this stupid hive mentality. If the whole thing ends up being different than Elden, better. People has the right to think WHATEVER THEY WANT. 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

17 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

How about if we respect Kaiga for his opinion? How about that? 

If any of you, Leyenda or any other user don't share his views, fine, move on. Pablo's video gameplay, when I saw it the first time I thought it was a meme of Elden Ring. Even the enemy waits idle to be clubbed by the player. Camera lock is identical to Elden Ring, almost. 

I know that many things are different. But that notion is there. You don't share it. That's fine, let other people think whatever they want without this stupid hive mentality. If the whole thing ends up being different than Elden, better. People has the right to think WHATEVER THEY WANT. 

When you share your thoughts, people are going to react to your thoughts. Don't want a reaction? Then don't share your thoughts.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

When you share your thoughts, people are going to react to your thoughts. Don't want a reaction? Then don't share your thoughts.

 

HOW ABOUT WHEN  YOU SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WHY NOT PEOPLE AT LEAST HAVE THE DECENCY TO SAY THANK YOU INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE COMPLETE DOUCHEBAGS

 

How about that for a change? . 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

20 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

HOW ABOUT WHEN  YOU SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WHY NOT PEOPLE AT LEAST HAVE THE DECENCY TO SAY THANK YOU INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE COMPLETE DOUCHEBAGS

The standard for behavior here is based on the forum rules, not your own personal metric for what is polite. If those standards aren't good enough for you, and you instead want everyone to qualify everything in meaningless nice-speak, you should probably stay away from the internet. It's a pretty dangerous place if you can't handle disagreement.

[Felsagger]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

The standard for behavior here is based on the forum rules, not your own personal metric for what is polite. If those standards aren't good enough for you, and you instead want everyone to qualify everything in meaningless nice-speak, you should probably stay away from the internet. It's a pretty dangerous place if you can't handle disagreement.

 

Right,....

The standard behavior of any civilized human being is based on stack exchange, mutual respect, acceptance and tolerance. This IS NOT WHAT I think. This is the world I try to build around me. Yes., forum rules are here and there are parametric rubrics that measures degree of politeness. 

BUT THAT IS NOT MY POINT. 

The standard behavior that I defend here is common sense despite if it IS NOT good enough for me. The standard I communicate here is good enough for everybody so you and other people have the opportunity to share ideas without being written off on purpose. Yes, I do know how to handle disagreement. I do this better than you. 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The standard behavior that I defend here is common sense despite if it IS NOT good enough for me.

"Common Sense" is just another way of saying "my opinion." It's a hollow term that people use to give their opinions weight.

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The standard I communicate here is good enough for everybody so you and other people have the opportunity to share ideas without being written off on purpose.

If the standard is good enough for everyone, why aren't people using it? It's not a good enough standard for everyone who isn't following it, and it's a terrible standard to me; that's why I'm arguing with you about it.

7 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Kaiga, don't waste your time in him. 

We are not here to convince others. We know how things are. Let them figure things out by themselves. 

If the goal is to keep people from writing off people's ideas, why are you using your standard to write off people's ideas? If you don't behave by your own standards, why would you ever demand that other people follow them?

[Felsagger]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

"Common Sense" is just another way of saying "my opinion." It's a hollow term that people use to give their opinions weight.

If the standard is good enough for everyone, why aren't people using it? It's not a good enough standard for everyone who isn't following it, and it's a terrible standard to me; that's why I'm arguing with you about it.

If the goal is to keep people from writing off people's ideas, why are you using your standard to write off people's ideas? If you don't behave by your own standards, why would you ever demand that other people follow them?

Fine let us cut the chase and get to the point. 

 

You are tired of seeing people bashing DE. There are ways of approximating DE without being abrasive or vitriolic. But many people have different opinions. Weighted opinions don't change the course of history but they are important in any retro feedback relation. 

Yes, bashing DE is not the intent of the forum purposes. These people needs pillows, milk, some oreos, potatoes, a salary and a house. Things are not for free in this world of stack exchanges but I do pick up ground on the matter of mutual respect. 

There are ways of wording things out without writing other people's opinion offs. You may choose the path of education, you may choose the scientific method, you may choose the classical style of proofs by counter examples or you can USE PERSUASION. 

I am not here whiteknighting free speech or democracy. Those things are invalid in this context. I am not talking about consensus either. These terms are not applicable either. Let me simply write it here.  I think we should let people HAVE IT. SIMPLE. 

Let live and let pass. 

On the topic. Some people mocks DE for the EXACT resemblance with Elden Ring. We NOW KNOW that there are more layers to Duviri. However PRESENTATION MATTERS. DE is getting mockery left and right because the game play FEELS ALMOST identical. 

Do you know why DE gets this heat? Well, because WE ARE TIRED of developers translating fads to their games in order to pull marketing on other clients. We Dark Soul players enjoy Dark Soul for what it is. We don't want Dark Soul lite in here. I do like Warframe for what it is. I do like Horizon Zero for what it is and I DO LIKE ELDEN RING For what it is. 

I don't enjoy "and ME TOO" developers, hence that wave of miss conceived mockery done by many with Duviri comparing it with ELDEN RING.  

 

See? 

 

 

[Hayrack]

Lmao, ok, "I saw a vieo of getting bodied". I saw another video, where Railjack lands in Orb Vallis.

I'm marking this thread for "Aged like milk".

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, Hayrack said:

Lmao, ok, "I saw a vieo of getting bodied". I saw another video, where Railjack lands in Orb Vallis.

I'm marking this thread for "Aged like milk".

 

We are only asking, that DE provide love to the content they released. Some of this content gets abandoned becoming content islands. The "aged like milk" applies to many of these contents we see in the game. 

 

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You are tired of seeing people bashing DE. There are ways of approximating DE without being abrasive or vitriolic. But many people have different opinions. Weighted opinions don't change the course of history but they are important in any retro feedback relation. 

Yes, bashing DE is not the intent of the forum purposes. These people needs pillows, milk, some oreos, potatoes, a salary and a house. Things are not for free in this world of stack exchanges but I do pick up ground on the matter of mutual respect. 

I don't mind people bashing DE, provided that they aren't making things personal (this developer deserves to be fired!). DE gets some flak that they don't deserve, but they also get a lot of fair criticism, and I'll support that. In fact, I openly say that Duviri and other big projects have taken developer resources away from the upkeep I believe Warframe needs, and I really dislike that.

25 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

There are ways of wording things out without writing other people's opinion offs. You may choose the path of education, you may choose the scientific method, you may choose the classical style of proofs by counter examples or you can USE PERSUASION. 

I am not here whiteknighting free speech or democracy. Those things are invalid in this context. I am not talking about consensus either. These terms are not applicable either. Let me simply write it here.  I think we should let people HAVE IT. SIMPLE. 

Let live and let pass. 

Tolerance isn't only expressed in silence: I can voice my opinion against yours, debate you for hours, and still acknowledge that you are entitled to believe whatever you want. I find arguments and discussions fun, and I like Warframe, which is why I'm frequently on the Warframe forums, a place where arguments/discussions about Warframe happen. I'll openly disagree on any topic I find interesting, and I'll argue back and forth with people. If I don't want to do that anymore, I can leave any time, and I lose no sleep over the people I didn't convince. To me, that's tolerance, more so than the "let people believe what they want" type of tolerance.

If two people want to argue about Warframe, then they should be allowed to argue however they want, so long as they follow the platform's guidelines. Trying to enforce your own conversational rules on other people is, in my humble opinion, a bad idea.

[Kaiga]

I just think the devs got a little too excited playing elden ring and wanted it in warframe through duviri, it doesn't have to be a 1:1 comparison to fulfill this.

This level of like, acrimony isn't necessary, either, please, it's just a theory based on the observed content.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

I don't mind people bashing DE, provided that they aren't making things personal (this developer deserves to be fired!). DE gets some flak that they don't deserve, but they also get a lot of fair criticism, and I'll support that. In fact, I openly say that Duviri and other big projects have taken developer resources away from the upkeep I believe Warframe needs, and I really dislike that.

Pablo already stated that he doesn't have much room for maneuver with the warframes because they are way too overpowered. This problem happens because they are not focusing on the AI. DE has two routes. They either downgrade the warframes or revamp the enemies such that enemies could cancel out with nullifiers the power of these warframes. DE is NOT on full force because they have a labor force dedicated to Soulframe and another labor force dedicated to Duviri and warframe. 

Their problem is the management and how the use their human resources. Tackling two projects at the same time is not new on this industry. DE was in such position many times before. This time they are using the base game of warframe to PLAY TEST soulframe. Would this be the conjecture? Without a doubt. We must accept or leave it since we already agreed with their Terms of Services. This is what is happening inside their studio despite if we like it or not. 

The upkeep is going to take a heavy plunge from now on since there are two projects running in parallel. This is the life of a GAAS developer. The problem here is that running TWO GAAS games is not going to be comfortable for them if they don't have double the resources. 

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

Tolerance isn't only expressed in silence: I can voice my opinion against yours, debate you for hours, and still acknowledge that you are entitled to believe whatever you want.

There is no problem with this. We are on the same page. 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

I find arguments and discussions fun, and I like Warframe, which is why I'm frequently on the Warframe forums, a place where arguments/discussions about Warframe happen. I'll openly disagree on any topic I find interesting, and I'll argue back and forth with people. If I don't want to do that anymore, I can leave any time, and I lose no sleep over the people I didn't convince. To me, that's tolerance, more so than the "let people believe what they want" type of tolerance.

That's your opinion about tolerance. But THAT IS NOT TOLERANCE. 

Tolerance is letting other people have their ways freely. This is not a university, this is not a discipline, this is not a forum for education. Some people have opinions, that's what we have. What I will vehemently go against is the douchebag behavior of the hive mentality. These users attacks others because they do not share the general vision. 

Let me go on this concept a bit more. Yes you may engage in a conversation and have tolerance. There is something called persuasion and how you say things without the need to do impose a point of view. A person may talk about a subject and write in a passive voice, "I disagree because of a., b. or c.". Yes in a discussion that has a NON TOXIC and NON VITRIOLIC approach you expect this degree of civilization. 

"wow, I didn't know that beyond: two souls was a souls-like."

This is the toxic attitude I talk about. This is clean mockery. Yes there are ways of saying the same in a different tone. There is a way to EDUCATE people if they are equivocated. If you or anyone wants to correct another user at least use some degree of PEDAGOGY. 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

If two people want to argue about Warframe, then they should be allowed to argue however they want, so long as they follow the platform's guidelines. Trying to enforce your own conversational rules on other people is, in my humble opinion, a bad idea.

I am not imposing ANY rule in the conversation. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. 

I am pointing out that many users here like in any other community are TOXIC and VITRIOLIC. This community has the same demons too like any other community out there. I am tired of the hypocritic behavior of some users when they claim that Warframe community is the less toxic one. 

Yes, DE made the rules clear and made the platform guidelines very explicit but you know more than anyone else what I am talking about here. Sorry but I don't roll with douchebaggery of some users. I'm going to make the call. 

You know your game, I know mine. You DO HAVE good formal reasons but I do have my reasons why I intervene this way. I'm tired that people here try to write off other users because they don't think alike. 

Sorry but with that type of behaviorism I disagree. 

[Felsagger]

56 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

I just think the devs got a little too excited playing elden ring and wanted it in warframe through duviri, it doesn't have to be a 1:1 comparison to fulfill this.

This level of like, acrimony isn't necessary, either, please, it's just a theory based on the observed content.

I know what you tried to say Kaiga. 

However If you can defend yourself and argue and hold your ground against alternate lurker accounts (You know who you are), general accounts, hostile players then I am of no more use here. Carry on with the conversation. 

You do have a point. The game resembled a lot Elden Ring. I know this because I am an Elden Ring player. From Software is one of my favorite developers and so Guerrilla Games. 

[Terroriced]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Kaiga:

I just think the devs got a little too excited playing elden ring and wanted it in warframe through duviri, it doesn't have to be a 1:1 comparison to fulfill this.

It could be worse. I was deeply worried when Steve praised the Fortnite developers on one of the devstreams for how bold they were for making massive changes to their game world, referring to the Black Hole Event. An event that I thought was the nail in the coffin to a rapidly declining game experience that once had been outstanding. An event that created huge attention, but didnt improve on the game.

Steve said something on the lines of "we used to do that too, making big changes". I think later changes being made to the Plains of Eidolon / Cetus and Orb Vallis / Fortuna post New War mirror that desire to get a slice of Fortnites success by copying 'something' on a surface level. What did it add to the game? We now cant easily access the original versions of those open world zones and their hubs. The post New War Plains of Eidolon have massively inferior performance (worst fps in the entire game), but they look somewhat higher quality I would say. Its kinda unfortunate I cant just go back from time to time to visit those uniquely looking game worlds DE build. This is how the devs wanted to implement 'massive changes' befitting for a 'massive' 'war'.

However, according to player feedback, the New War lacked any relevant repercussions on the Warframe universe that for the majority of players still is mostly starchart missions due to how unfinished and devoid of meaningful things to do those open worlds can feel. And no, fishing / mining / conservation are not enough to breathe life into an otherwise empty space for a lot of players. And lets face it, regular starchart missions are just better. There is more action, shorter missions with faster changing environments and a more intensive feeling of speed and reward / progression.

 

What would surface level Elden Ring content add to Warframe?

I dont think there would be much. Thats why the devs seem to try to add this content besides the regular game content, as a literal (floating) island. This could work out for them.

[Felsagger]

Terroriced, DE can use any method of marketing technique they want. The 'me too' is a valid marketing strategy too despite if I like it or not. However if DE wants to do Elden Ring in Warframe, please DE improve the A.I. just a little..... ffs. 

[Terroriced]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Felsagger:

Terroriced, DE can use any method of marketing technique they want. The 'me too' is a valid marketing strategy too despite if I like it or not. However if DE wants to do Elden Ring in Warframe, please DE improve the A.I. just a little..... ffs. 

Indeed, they can go in any direction with their marketing technique and make changes to their game as long as they understand what makes the content they want to take inspiration of good and what investment beyond surface level constructs is needed to reach that desired result. And also how that new idea fits into the existing game.

 

When it comes to AI improvements, I also hope for some of the problems we have now to get fixed.

Like how enemies tend to randomly jump back and forth between platforms during combat. Just stop it, this is so annoying.

Or the many broken animations with dashing or general movement abilities that often result in unintended teleports, enemies rapidly snapping in different directions and so on.

 

But I know the thing you want to see is not refinement of the current system and bugfixes but more of an expansion into group tactics and situational tactics based on environment / player behavior.

[Felsagger]

10 minutes ago, Terroriced said:

 

 

But I know the thing you want to see is not refinement of the current system and bugfixes but more of an expansion into group tactics and situational tactics based on environment / player behavior.

lol, hold it. 

I want any refinement first. Anything that helps the game improve is welcome on my book. I think bug fixing is fundamental all the time. It's the very basic of GAAS game keeping. I do expect AI military tactical accuracy but that is subject of another thread and discussion. 

DE must hire code programmers for boss fight designs. 

DE must make consultations with From Software. If the winning horse is galloping to success why not ask the horse From Software themselves? 

DE could hire associated studios for those corners that needs some polishing while they continue with their vision of warframe. 

In Sony International Entertainment, developers consult each other and share some coding for certain problems they face. A single developer can't have knowledge of everything. Coding is quite complex. I do that in architecture. It demands a lot of time to get the tiniest things done. Robustness is always a challenge.