What is “Soulsframe?”

[cute_moth.npc]

7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

If you want cellphone crap for a game, sure. Why not?

 

I'm just trying to have fun ;_;

Personally, does phone gaming bother me?

Mm.. Like a phone port doesn't. That's kind of innocent as long as that's what it is.

Phone game monetization is really awful and predatory in some cases though. As long as the developers kept a similar monetization structure to what they have now, things are okay.

I don't really want stuff like void dash getting turned into sling in the name of "improving controls" (for a different version of the game), but I also just don't feel very threatened by the thought of a phone version that isn't negatively impacting a PC version or things like that..

I guess I just don't think I need to fixate on worrying about it. Right now there's not really any indication that Warframe's mobile project is going to re shape the normal game.. Although maybe right now the people who were supposed to do the pets rework are trying to figure out how to get a Samsung to stop looping host migrations lol 

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Gaming: 

Consoles > phones

Fact. 

Clearly not fact since well NSW is a console and was a bottleneck when it was released.

12 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Let us do a simple elementary comparison. Current console game and current IOS Phone games. 

A game in a PS5:

Cell phone games. 

Case closed. 

And the same comparison can be done on PC if you decide to showcase a single game versus a random assortment of games of different types on another platform. So no, not case closed. There are just as many rubbish games on a phone as there is on PC, that doesnt mean there arent good looking PC games. My point is not that however, it is that phones will not hold back development aslong as last generation (several times over) PCs and last gen consoles and "lite" versions like NSW are part of the game. Since if they can design to cater to those old generation, they are able to design for modern phones, which is the generations they aim for.

17 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You don't want to understand. 

Oh I do and the floor is already there in the NSW and has been for years, and it has had no actual impact on the progress of the game. Hence why we've had massive graphical overhauls after NSW became a port. You simply fail to realize that the low mark is already there in the NSW, so phones wont change that part. That aswell as not needing a cert period for updates means phones are less intrusive to development than any of the consoles are in a cross platform environment. And you as a console player is certainly not the one to talk about reduction in quality introduced by phones since you are part of the cause why we on PC have to wait for updates nowdays in the firstplace. So take your pleb opinions elsewhere.

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Comedy is not your strong.

It's not comedy, I'd just trying to get into your mindset.

[Felsagger]

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm just trying to have fun ;_;

Well, for me is way hard to find fun on cellpone games. 

The problem that I'm addressing is that Soulframe and Warframe are products being arranged for CELL PHONES. You know exactly what that means. 

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

Personally, does phone gaming bother me?

Mm.. Like a phone port doesn't. That's kind of innocent as long as that's what it is.

Your lowest common denominator are no longer PCs. 

Your lowest common denominator are now phone hardware. 

 

As a developer can you design with the same scope and ambition on phones than PCs or consoles?

Answer: No. 

Money: Yes. 

Oh I forgot, this business IS about money, not quality. My bad. 

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

Phone game monetization is really awful and predatory in some cases though. As long as the developers kept a similar monetization structure to what they have now, things are okay.

Once you open that Pandora box there is no return. Even HOPE is gone. 

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

I don't really want stuff like void dash getting turned into sling in the name of "improving controls" (for a different version of the game), but I also just don't feel very threatened by the thought of a phone version that isn't negatively impacting a PC version or things like that..

If DE designs for all the consoles then Phones will be the parameter of control. This is known as the floor hardware. You can't work ambitiously since the floor hardware IS the constraint. 

Just now, cute_moth.npc said:

I guess I just don't think I need to fixate on worrying about it. Right now there's not really any indication that Warframe's mobile project is going to re shape the normal game.. Although maybe right now the people who were supposed to do the pets rework are trying to figure out how to get a Samsung to stop looping host migrations lol 

lol, that's already happening. 

*cough* Duviri *cough

 

oh my bad. This cough of mine needs medicine. :P

7 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

I see... how nice for you.

Wait, what?

Say again?...

[cute_moth.npc]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Once you open that Pandora box there is no return. Even HOPE is gone. 

It's okay. I wasn't really personally hoping for next gen graphics and an upgrade to ray tracing heaven, I was hoping for missions with increased enemy variety, scaling you can notice and a myriad of game modes with increased engagement. Somewhere to use all of the weapons I've been building, something spicy.

That hope is already gone, lol

5 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If DE designs for all the consoles then Phones will be the parameter of control. This is known as the floor hardware. You can't work ambitiously since the floor hardware IS the constraint. 

I don't think that's really true because the prior lowest common denominator has been console controllers, which aren't terrible but don't have the same precision as keyboard and mouse but haven't really brought keyboard and mouse down.. Developers can do stuff like add extra auto aim to phone players to help.. 

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, FadeToNull said:

Au contraire...

No, I don't claim that. Nor would I. I have no such opinion.

I claim that the name "Soulframe" is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous?

If it is as Steve says tied to a mechanic in the game it makes sense. I even think I can imagine what that mechanic will be, which is us playing our character and collecting souls instead of Warframes. So our character is the framework that houses the different souls based on our need for the task at hand. Thus Soulframe. Nothing wrong having a name that is familiar and tied to the developer/company.

And if you have no such opinion, why the analogy with Game of Crowns "with no murders"? Apparently you try to convey that a large part is rooted in the name, not just that the name is ridiculous at that point. Since there is no point in adding the specific "no murders" to the analogy if it is simply about a ridiculous name. Which I dont see how Game of Crowns would be either, not any less ridiculous than Game of Thrones was when the option was there to stick with the name A Song of Fire and Ice. 

Personal note: I was put off by GoT for quite a while because I expected a very cheesy low quality show with that name.

[Felsagger]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Clearly not fact since well NSW is a console and was a bottleneck when it was released.

 

Nintendo Switch was designed with the purpose to be A PORTABLE. That is their AIM of such hybrid design. The purpose was and will be PORTABLE. That's why is a HYBRID product. 

 

You simply decided to throw away logic. Should you throw in the gutter common sense too? Go ahead. Do it. 

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And the same comparison can be done on PC if you decide to showcase a single game versus a random assortment of games of different types on another platform. So no, not case closed. There are just as many rubbish games on a phone as there is on PC, that doesnt mean there arent good looking PC games. My point is not that however, it is that phones will not hold back development aslong as last generation (several times over) PCs and last gen consoles and "lite" versions like NSW are part of the game. Since if they can design to cater to those old generation, they are able to design for modern phones, which is the generations they aim for.

Wait, you threw away already common sense here. (On purpose)

Fantastic. Denial helped you achieve such goal. 

 

Gaming:

Consoles > IOS Phones. 

Case closed. 

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Oh I do and the floor is already there in the NSW and has been for years, and it has had no actual impact on the progress of the game. Hence why we've had massive graphical overhauls after NSW became a port. You simply fail to realize that the low mark is already there in the NSW, so phones wont change that part. That aswell as not needing a cert period for updates means phones are less intrusive to development than any of the consoles are in a cross platform environment. And you as a console player is certainly not the one to talk about reduction in quality introduced by phones since you are part of the cause why we on PC have to wait for updates nowdays in the firstplace. So take your pleb opinions elsewhere.

Floor hardware limits the ambition of the developer. 

Fact. 

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It's not comedy, I'd just trying to get into your mindset.

A guide to felsager's mindset. It's elementary actually. 

1. Cell phone games makes money. But they are not focused on quality at the standard of PC and console games. 

2. DE and Tencent are looking at the Cell Phone industry. That means transformations and adjustments on the scope of development for Warframe and Soulframe. 

3. The expectation of progress on the industry WILL BE constrained to cellphone IF THIS IS THE CASE. 

Right now we are seeing a product that is PERFECTLY FITTED to cell phones. 

 

If you enjoy a cellphone game. Fine. There is nothing wrong enjoying portable games. That's why we have NSW and that's why we have IOS phone games. 

21 minutes ago, FadeToNull said:

Au contraire...

No, I don't claim that. Nor would I. I have no such opinion.

I claim that the name "Soulframe" is ridiculous.

How DARE YOU USE COMMON SENSE HERE?!!

 

Reported. You are CHEATING. You are using a SMURF account.. :P (/sarcasm)

[FadeToNull]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is it ridiculous?

Clearly it isn't ridiculous to you. And that's ok. In fact it's great! Let's celebrate the rich tapestry of our diverse opinions.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, FadeToNull said:

Clearly it isn't ridiculous to you. And that's ok. In fact it's great! Let's celebrate the rich tapestry of our diverse opinions.

Even having an opinion around here is considered an act of defiance. You could even be reported for having a different point of view. Imagine if you decide to think by yourself. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

Nintendo Switch was designed with the purpose to be A PORTABLE. That is their AIM of such hybrid design. The purpose was and will be PORTABLE. That's why is a HYBRID product. 

 

You simply decided to throw away logic. Should you throw in the gutter common sense too? Go ahead. Do it. 

Wait, you threw away already common sense here. (On purpose)

Fantastic. Denial helped you achieve such goal. 

 

Gaming:

Consoles > IOS Phones. 

Case closed. 

Floor hardware limits the ambition of the developer. 

Fact. 

A guide to felsager's mindset. It's elementary actually. 

1. Cell phone games makes money. But they are not focused on quality at the standard of PC and console games. 

2. DE and Tencent are looking at the Cell Phone industry. That means transformations and adjustments on the scope of development for Warframe and Soulframe. 

3. The expectation of progress on the industry WILL BE constrained to cellphone IF THIS IS THE CASE. 

Right now we are seeing a product that is PERFECTLY FITTED to cell phones. 

 

If you enjoy a cellphone game. Fine. There is nothing wrong enjoying portable games. That's why we have NSW and that's why we have IOS phone games. 

How DARE YOU USE COMMON SENSE HERE?!!

 

Reported. You are CHEATING. You are using a SMURF account.. :P (/sarcasm)

That doesnt make NSW less of a console. Which was your claim consoles > phones. Which clearly isnt the case.

1. True when they are made for smartphones as the main platform. Not the case for WF smarthphones are a 4th port in addition to the main platform which is PC. It would also only be an issue if smartphones in this case was the floor, they arent since we have both several generation old PCs and consoles such as NSW. So what you say doesnt apply. And with Soulframe there is no indication it will even be available on smartphones.

2. Ah so you work for DE and Tencent? You're aware that the smartphone port for WF was in development well before Tencent even bought Leyou right? Plus, it is Tencent owning Leyou and DE, it is not Tencent Games. Like I told you before regarding something else, Tencent is a holding company, they are not a publisher etc. They are simply there, with too many cookie jars they have their fingers in to bother with the internal dealings of every company they own. Which is why they buy successful companies with stable IPs so they dont have to worry about getting specialists in to view the market, since the companies they buy do that on their own since they are already established.

3. And it is highly unlikely that anything will be constrained to cellphones given how DE i.e Steve and others, like their freedom in design. I mean like I said, they are already phasing out old hardware and software since it has too many limitations. So just the idea of them focusing fully on pleasing mobile gaming is far fetched thought. Not even Blizzard did it, since they only really published Immortal, because they just like DE had no actual experience in developing mobile games, while on the other hand NetEase did.

And since NSW has shown that it hasnt held back WF, it is silly to think something else will. What did hold back WF is when they decided to add crossplay due to certification processes, which like I said involves you as a console player as part of that problem.

14 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

Clearly it isn't ridiculous to you. And that's ok. In fact it's great! Let's celebrate the rich tapestry of our diverse opinions.

Is it really that hard to answer the question asked? I mean it should be fairly simply to answer the reason for your own opinion dont you think?

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 2023-05-17 at 1:55 PM, bad4youLT said:

DE previews game was called The Amazing Eternals that got canned around 2017 for lack of support from community if you didn't know

it was a beta test u needed and invitation for, so them dropping it wasnt do to us

also im a console player, it was pc only for the betas

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

22 hours ago, cute_moth.npc said:

It's okay. I wasn't really personally hoping for next gen graphics and an upgrade to ray tracing heaven, I was hoping for missions with increased enemy variety, scaling you can notice and a myriad of game modes with increased engagement. Somewhere to use all of the weapons I've been building, something spicy.

That hope is already gone, lol

I don't think that's really true because the prior lowest common denominator has been console controllers, which aren't terrible but don't have the same precision as keyboard and mouse but haven't really brought keyboard and mouse down.. Developers can do stuff like add extra auto aim to phone players to help.. 

consoles can use a mouse and keyboard... (i havnt tried on switch yet) but i use a mosue and keyboard on my ps4 and ps5 all the time

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That doesnt make NSW less of a console. Which was your claim consoles > phones. Which clearly isnt the case.

I am fully aware about your dumb baits and your dumb remarks written on purpose. This is not new, you are not the first one who trolls with such habits or the last. Anyone who is mentally adjusted knows off the bat that you are pulling sentences with zero sense just for some fun on the boards. This is how you present yourself. However this type of forum play is simply a distraction. 

Let us continue with formality. 

Hardware wise Nintendo decided their target market and their target audience. The product was designed for THE JAPANESE that travels long hours by train. The public have those unoccupied hours traveling by train towards their job. Such waiting hours was one of the targets of the market. The portability and the hybridization made the product a success for the capacity of resilience, connectivity and practical uses such as internet local connection between players. 

The product doesn't represent the standard hardware evolution of consoles. Developers who design their projects can't make ports if the project demands hardware performance. An example of this is Cyberpunk 77. The main mistake was the design of a game between generations that are dispar by ten years of technology. The PS5 hardware is suitable for the scale of that project but not the PS4, much less would be the Nintendo Switch. 

A developer who design multi platform games understands the spectrum of the hardware and the capabilities including the stream of information between components. The stream of information and the handling of volumes of data determines the size of the project such as level of detail and other complexities in the game assets. Hardware proficiency gives room for developers showing what is possible and what it isn't. 

This is the classical standard of consideration that any game designer would think the first few seconds when they conceive a project. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

1. True when they are made for smartphones as the main platform. Not the case for WF smarthphones are a 4th port in addition to the main platform which is PC.

 

Warframe is a project that is going through a process of adaptability. If the project where only reserved for PCs then the scope and extensions of such project would be inscribed on an average of hardwares encompassing the greatest number of users. Each revision would be timed revolving around component prices and the speed of transition between hardware. 

The story is very simple. Warframe started on PC, then went multi platform including the Xbox One, PS4 and now the project includes NSW, Xbox Series S and PS5. With such inclusion the floor hardware happens. This floor hardware is the NSW as the constraint. No longer the leaps and bound that are possible on PC could be absorbed by a static hardware such as NSW much less would be the IOS phone even if these were more capable. 

Hardware performance limits the scope and evolution of the project. Fact. 

IOS phones hardware will never reach the quality and depth in video games in comparison to the PS5 and PC. Fact. 

IOS phones hardware will become a design constraint for developers due to the streaming of information between components in the device. Fact. 

IOS phones hardware will be the standard including a diverse number of users being an attractive market for large companies such as Leyou and Tencent. Fact. 

Warframe and Soulframe are candidates for ports. In order to fit a port on lesser fortunate hardwares such as IOS phones, such projects should be tempered with the hardware that such IOS phones has. No longer PC will be the leading parameter of constraint neither the XBOX or the PS5. The quality will be adjusted sufficiently enough such that the ports become viable within the hardware performance of these phones. Fact. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It would also only be an issue if smartphones in this case was the floor, they arent since we have both several generation old PCs and consoles such as NSW. So what you say doesnt apply. And with Soulframe there is no indication it will even be available on smartphones.

What phone in the market can perform like this:

Answer: NONE. 

Can IOS phones reaches the performance of the PS5 later on? 

Answer: Yes. 

Who dictates the progress of technology?

Answer: Consumption. 

Who determines game design decisions? 

Answer: The architecture of devices. 

Who determines business decisions? 

Answer: Sale numbers. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

2. Ah so you work for DE and Tencent?

I'm sure that you don't. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You're aware that the smartphone port for WF was in development well before Tencent even bought Leyou right?

Proof?

Let me help you. 

https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/warframe-crossplay-and-cross-save-mobile-version

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Plus, it is Tencent owning Leyou and DE, it is not Tencent Games. Like I told you before regarding something else, Tencent is a holding company, they are not a publisher etc. They are simply there, with too many cookie jars they have their fingers in to bother with the internal dealings of every company they own. Which is why they buy successful companies with stable IPs so they dont have to worry about getting specialists in to view the market, since the companies they buy do that on their own since they are already established.

False. 

DE writes annual Financial Reports to Tencent every year. 

https://www.tencent.com/en-us/investors/financial-reports.html

https://static.www.tencent.com/uploads/2022/04/07/7c31a327fb1c068906b70ba7ebede899.PDF

And

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2022/10/02/tencent-acquisitions-to-aggressively-continue/

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

3. And it is highly unlikely that anything will be constrained to cell phones given how DE i.e Steve and others, like their freedom in design. I mean like I said, they are already phasing out old hardware and software since it has too many limitations. So just the idea of them focusing fully on pleasing mobile gaming is far fetched thought. Not even Blizzard did it, since they only really published Immortal, because they just like DE had no actual experience in developing mobile games, while on the other hand NetEase did.

A clean supposition that has no proof or support argument. 

Hardware constraints determines the output of the product. Fact. 

DE decided to go multi platform for economical reasons .i.e., greater number of clients. Such decision has consequences in the pipelining evolution of the GAAS F2P peer to peer project. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And since NSW has shown that it hasnt held back WF,

Hint: Can you compare the performance of Duviri with Horizon Burning Shores?

Answer? You can't. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

it is silly to think something else will. What did hold back WF is when they decided to add crossplay due to certification processes, which like I said involves you as a console player as part of that problem.

Will Warframe be ported in Unreal 5.2. 

Answer? Never. 

Why? DE averaged the graphics and scope of the project to a greater number of devices. 

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Is it really that hard to answer the question asked? I mean it should be fairly simply to answer the reason for your own opinion dont you think?

We are talking about the progress and evolution of a product over time. This progress and evolution will decrease in speed and ambition inscribed with the hardware architecture of IOS phones or portable phones in general. 

36 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

consoles can use a mouse and keyboard... (i havnt tried on switch yet) but i use a mosue and keyboard on my ps4 and ps5 all the time

 

Thank you for this fact. 

Can IOS Phones uses Keyboard and mouse? 

 

Case closed. 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

36 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Can IOS Phones uses Keyboard and mouse? 

 

idk about ios but my android phone uses the same keyboard and mosue my ps4/ps5 uses, its just genaric bluetooth, and i also use the same mouse on my laptop

its a Logitech mouse and keyboard that can easly be bought at walmart, the only console im unsure off when it comes to using a mouse is the switch, but i have a dock for my switch lite coming so il tell u when that happens 

the issue is not if it can but if its implemented in the console build, war thunder, fortnight, cod, phantasy star online can all use a mouse and keyboard on ps4 and because fortnight is on switch and mobile, i assume they can too

however on xbox ver of warframe, u can rebind keys for keyboard but the playstation ver cant because?

[SneakyErvin]

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

A clean supposition that has no proof or support argument. 

Can IOS Phones uses Keyboard and mouse? 

There is proof in that though, as of the latest patch and patches prior to it that constantly phase out or prepare to phase out old tech. All in order to stay at a floor level they want which doesnt impact development while still manages to retain and attract players and revenue. 

And yes lol, phones can use KB/M. There are these mysterious things called apps, then there are these other mysterious things called USB-adapters that come in all different shapes and forms that through magic enables a phone to use KB/M. That is if you dont want to use bluetooth hardware, or hardware that works with Apples own bluetooth thing. Serious question, are you living under a rock?

Also that you compare Burning whatevers performance to Duviri is disingenuous since Burning doesnt have to deal with issues that are rooted in multiplayer games. Single player games are much more forgiving since they arent prone to half or more of the bugs that come by just being an online game.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

it was a beta test u needed and invitation for, so them dropping it wasnt do to us

The main reason for TAE's cancellation was that DE realised that they were entering into a genre (Hero Shooters) that was highly competitive and had pretty much already reached its saturation point. One needs only look at the fates that befell pretty much all games in said genre that weren't named "Overwatch" to see why they felt it was better to cut their losses.

That said, I do find it somewhat tragic that the assets made for TAE will likely never see use. That kind of charming pulp-sci fi style doesn't get used very often in gaming, so it would have been nice if they could have been repurposed.

[FadeToNull]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Can IOS Phones uses Keyboard and mouse? 

Keyboards for iPhones/iPads do exist, but they're awkward to use and have never been popular.

I've never seen a mouse for iOS. They may exist, but if so they're pretty obscure.

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

idk about ios but my android phone uses the same keyboard and mosue my ps4/ps5 uses, its just genaric bluetooth, and i also use the same mouse on my laptop

its a Logitech mouse and keyboard that can easly be bought at walmart, the only console im unsure off when it comes to using a mouse is the switch, but i have a dock for my switch lite coming so il tell u when that happens 

the issue is not if it can but if its implemented in the console build, war thunder, fortnight, cod, phantasy star online can all use a mouse and keyboard on ps4 and because fortnight is on switch and mobile, i assume they can too

however on xbox ver of warframe, u can rebind keys for keyboard but the playstation ver cant because?

 

The problem always aims at the capacity of input/output devices in the game for example the basic nature of DPI or resolution of the mouse and the accuracy due to frame rate. Any device that has a computer integrated may accept peripherals like mouse and keyboard, the problem lies on the PROGRAMMING OF THE GAME IN THE DEVICE and how accurate are these input devices in the medium. 

 

Game designed for IOS phones are not the same as game designed for PC or PS5. The problem is quite elementary. RAM memory and of course VIDEO CARD parameters. That makes a clean distinction between devices in terms of performance. 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, FadeToNull said:

Keyboards for iPhones/iPads do exist, but they're awkward to use and have never been popular.

I've never seen a mouse for iOS. They may exist, but if so they're pretty obscure.

Exactly. 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Felsagger

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is proof in that though

In your brain may exist an answer but your ideal world requires a concrete evidence and proof.  You do not have the level of expertise and experience to produce a coherent answer in this topic. 

You do not have experience working in a developer office or know how the pipelining of a GAAS F2P peer to peer game works. If you want a clear comprehension how this work, you should read how games are designed and how developers work with different platforms for an accurate performance of the game in each platform. You are making suppositions point blank on what you think. Anyone who works, if you do your research adequately, can tell you that the scope and ambition of the game needs a specific budget of polygons, RAM memory and level of detail or LOD to run the game environment on an IOS PHONE. There are development kits that simulate this environment telling the developer what are their constraints of design and how many polygons, streaming of data, graphics output is possible under a certain hardware setup.

  

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

, as of the latest patch and patches prior to it that constantly phase out or prepare to phase out old tech. All in order to stay at a floor level they want which doesnt impact development while still manages to retain and attract players and revenue. 

Yes it impacts development. 

Answer: RAM memory. Speed of information streaming between the components of the device, size of the information streaming between components inside the device. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And yes lol, phones can use KB/M. There are these mysterious things called apps, then there are these other mysterious things called USB-adapters that come in all different shapes and forms that through magic enables a phone to use KB/M. That is if you dont want to use bluetooth hardware, or hardware that works with Apples own bluetooth thing. Serious question, are you living under a rock?

"Wait, I have to play Warframe SP, let me take the mouse and keyboard out of my pocket to play this game AND my phone"

 

How probable is this scenario? 

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also that you compare Burning whatevers performance to Duviri is disingenuous since Burning doesnt have to deal with issues that are rooted in multiplayer games.

I know that you hate the title because it shows that Warframe looks average, outdated in comparison to many other games in the market. It strikes a deep nerve inside your thick heavy callous skull of yours. This comparison will continue to happen over and over again until you understand that PHONE GAMES WILL CANCEL ANY POSSIBILITY in the future to make the game look as good like Horizon Zero Burning Shores, a standard launched current game. 

Guerrilla Games have plans for a multi player game with the current graphic engine of Horizon Zero Burning Shores for the PS5. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Single player games are much more forgiving since they arent prone to half or more of the bugs that come by just being an online game.

There, your point? 

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Yes it impacts development. 

No heh it doesnt. Just because you as in the singular you want something specific doesnt mean the devs of the game have the same idea or need/want. So if what the devs want are achievable within the scope of the option they have access to, then there is no impact since it is done by intent already. In the case of Warframe and DE, they want it accessible for a wide audience, so that is their design intent and only the most fringe machines will get phased out so they can keep up while still supporting a side range of hardware and software for years.

Like I've said before. Just look at Valheim, it doesnt have any over the top graphics and it is immensly popular, it caters to what the devs wanted to achieve and what the playerbase wishes to experience. Do you sit over on their forums and complain how it doesnt look like Burning Shores or Elden Ring, or how it uses the came combat as Elden Ring? Which funnily enough would be more valid in a discussion about Valheim combat since it is more similar to Elden Ring and Souls game in general than Duviri or Soulframe is, since Valheim is actually punishing as hell if you fail blocks and dodges of your progress "level" and it also relies on stamina aswell as consumables etc. when it comes to combat "skills".

edit: And as a sidenote. Warframe looks amazing for a game that manages to cater to such a wide audience and variety of machines.

edit: I mean, you are sounding like some Black Metal twat that needs everything to sound like Mayhem or that #*!%ing poser Burzum.

Edited May 21, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[Felsagger]

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No heh it doesnt. Just because you as in the singular you want something specific doesnt mean the devs of the game have the same idea or need/want.

 

This sentence makes zero sense. 

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So if what the devs want are achievable within the scope of the option they have access to, then there is no impact since it is done by intent already. In the case of Warframe and DE, they want it accessible for a wide audience, so that is their design intent and only the most fringe machines will get phased out so they can keep up while still supporting a side range of hardware and software for years.

Speed of progress is tuned to a slower pace according to the IOS architecture progression. 

The scale of ambition is tuned with the hardware capability and performance. 

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Like I've said before. Just look at Valheim, it doesnt have any over the top graphics and it is immensly popular, it caters to what the devs wanted to achieve and what the playerbase wishes to experience.

Since when the player base wants an IOS phone experience in a game that was first scheduled for PCs?  

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Do you sit over on their forums and complain how it doesnt look like Burning Shores or Elden Ring, or how it uses the came combat as Elden Ring? Which funnily enough would be more valid in a discussion about Valheim combat since it is more similar to Elden Ring and Souls game in general than Duviri or Soulframe is, since Valheim is actually punishing as hell if you fail blocks and dodges of your progress "level" and it also relies on stamina aswell as consumables etc. when it comes to combat "skills".

If DE wants to follow trends, at least follow them properly. 

If DE wants to retain players, don't make games looks like IOS PHONE games. 

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: And as a sidenote. Warframe looks amazing for a game that manages to cater to such a wide audience and variety of machines.

Let us test that theory. 

 

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

edit: I mean, you are sounding like some... twat....

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Felsagger

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This sentence makes zero sense. 

Speed of progress is tuned to a slower pace according to the IOS architecture progression. 

The scale of ambition is tuned with the hardware capability and performance. 

Since when the player base wants an IOS phone experience in a game that was first scheduled for PCs?  

If DE wants to follow trends, at least follow them properly. 

If DE wants to retain players, don't make games looks like IOS PHONE games. 

Let us test that theory. 

 

Sure it does if you can grasp context. As mentioned later, Valheim regarding graphics. The speed of progress also isnt bottlenecked by phones, it is again bottlenecked by NSW aswell as old gen PC and last gen consoles. Phones, like PC, are several times easier to phase out in order to allow progression because new phones are released on a yearly basis while consoles have years and years upon their neck once a new one pops up.

If this was a game just between PC and phones along with a far narrower compatability range regarding hardware/software the phone would be a bottleneck, but that fully depends on how narrow that mentioned range would be. As it is with WF, consoles will always be the part that slows down progression, especially now with cross-play being a thing and unified releases being a must for it to work.

What trend?

And again you post a brand new game with quite high system requirements in order to allow those graphics, not to mention that alot of the lower end that warframe caters to is gone. So yes the theory is tried and true, since WF does look amazing for a game that allows such a wide range of players to play it. That is before we consider the parts in WF that makes it harder to become purdiest of the purdie i.e things like massive mob density and effects, multiplayer (again something that is void in girly hunter game) and so on. Also worth noting, DE have decided to make a game that doesnt take up 100-ish gigs on a HD/SSD, it requires a quarter or a third of that. And that is with thousands of hours worth of content to boot. I'll take all of that over the latest graphics any day of the week.

 

[Felsagger]

51 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure it does if you can grasp context. As mentioned later, Valheim regarding graphics. The speed of progress also isnt bottlenecked by phones, it is again bottlenecked by NSW aswell as old gen PC and last gen consoles. Phones, like PC, are several times easier to phase out in order to allow progression because new phones are released on a yearly basis while consoles have years and years upon their neck once a new one pops up.

If this was a game just between PC and phones along with a far narrower compatability range regarding hardware/software the phone would be a bottleneck, but that fully depends on how narrow that mentioned range would be. As it is with WF, consoles will always be the part that slows down progression, especially now with cross-play being a thing and unified releases being a must for it to work.

What trend?

And again you post a brand new game with quite high system requirements in order to allow those graphics, not to mention that alot of the lower end that warframe caters to is gone. So yes the theory is tried and true, since WF does look amazing for a game that allows such a wide range of players to play it. That is before we consider the parts in WF that makes it harder to become purdiest of the purdie i.e things like massive mob density and effects, multiplayer (again something that is void in girly hunter game) and so on. Also worth noting, DE have decided to make a game that doesnt take up 100-ish gigs on a HD/SSD, it requires a quarter or a third of that. And that is with thousands of hours worth of content to boot. I'll take all of that over the latest graphics any day of the week.

 

 

You build fantasies for your own sake. Enjoy them. 

 

Warframe never was a game. It was a testing GAAS F2P peer to peer player assisted project. This game warframe and soulframe will be ported on IOS phones. The progress and evolution will not be the same if such game where only on PC or PS5. The IOS phones IS the floor hardware from now on. You don't want to accept it, fine. You enjoy cell phone games, that's fine too. Not everybody likes cellphone games and not everybody share the same standards.  

 

Simple. 

[DrBorris]

What I find frustrating about this whole back and forth is that one side seems predicated on the (baseless) assertion that graphical fidelity is not only the most important factor in how good a game looks, but that the quality of the entire game is a function of how real it looks. The foundation to the argument is flawed. 

I don't want Warframe to be higher fidelity or more realistic. I much prefer the stylized art style we have, and while there is certainly some dated textures in the game that is entirely tied to old content that hasn't been updated. I prefer the visual clarity, the animated pizazz, the unrealistic fantasy. Destiny is another game that I think nails being a beautiful game without resorting to more polygons. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are both gorgeous games that I become fully immersed in despite being cell shaded. These things not requiring as much hardware isn't even part of the equation for me.

 

To be frank, I pity not being able to appreciate art that isn't realistic. I'm not settling for "average" because I find beauty in things that aren't a photograph and Warframe is no less good a game because it doesn't look like every other modern AAA game. Dismissing art direction in favor of making a mirror to reality is the more "average" approach if anything. 

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

What I find frustrating about this whole back and forth is that one side seems predicated on the (baseless) assertion that graphical fidelity is not only the most important factor in how good a game looks, but that the quality of the entire game is a function of how real it looks. The foundation to the argument is flawed. 

The entirety of the game Horizon Forbidden west is what makes the game great. Graphics is just a fraction. If we consider strict game play we must take into account the complexity of the game mechanics. The IOS phone games doesn't have the same level of depth in the game play if we compare them to a standard PC game. 

 

There. 

 

11 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I don't want Warframe to be higher fidelity or more realistic. I much prefer the stylized art style we have, and while there is certainly some dated textures in the game that is entirely tied to old content that hasn't been updated. I prefer the visual clarity, the animated pizazz, the unrealistic fantasy. Destiny is another game that I think nails being a beautiful game without resorting to more polygons. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are both gorgeous games that I become fully immersed in despite being cell shaded. These things not requiring as much hardware isn't even part of the equation for me.

One thing is artistic license. That's perfectly fine but another thing is LOD or level of detail and far off distance without stuttering. 

11 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

 

To be frank, I pity not being able to appreciate art that isn't realistic. I'm not settling for "average" because I find beauty in things that aren't a photograph and Warframe is no less good a game because it doesn't look like every other modern AAA game. Dismissing art direction in favor of making a mirror to reality is the more "average" approach if anything. 

Warframe is an average looking game with current standards. That's not bad but we must state things as they are. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Felsagger

[FadeToNull]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

I'm not settling for "average" because I find beauty in things that aren't a photograph and Warframe is no less good a game because it doesn't look like every other modern AAA game. Dismissing art direction in favor of making a mirror to reality is the more "average" approach if anything. 

Warframe is an average looking game with current standards. That's not bad but we must state things as they are.

Fel, the guy is agreeing with you.

I'll try rephrasing what he said.

DrBorris, paraphrased:

By today's standards, Warframe doesn't have the best graphical fidelity. But it has a great art style. I appreciate artistic presentation more than graphical fidelity.