When Can Exalted Weapons Equip Arcanes Too?

[MzKsG]

I've been wondering when Exalted Weapons will have the ability to equip Arcanes. Initially, I believed that Exalted Weapons were designed to be powerful but energy-restricted super weapons, akin to the guns found in supply drops in APEX. These weapons boasted significantly higher stats compared to their counterparts but were unable to replenish their ammo. Similarly, Exalted Weapons were meant to exceed regular weapons in terms of raw power but required energy to sustain, preventing continuous usage.

However, with the continuous updates, enemy enhancements, and the introduction of new weapons, some Exalted Weapons have fallen behind in terms of their effectiveness, especially in Steel Path missions. Therefore, I believe it would be worth considering allowing Exalted Weapons to benefit from Arcanes as well, even if their energy consumption is adjusted to maintain balance.

I don't expect Exalted Weapons to become a fourth weapon that can be used throughout an entire mission, as that would undermine the significance of other weapons. However, at the very least, I hope that during decisive battles, Exalted Weapons can exhibit their true potential with the inclusion of Arcanes.

[AegidiusF]

Some exalted are already being affected by primary or secondary Arcanes bonus. One of the exemples is Titania's Dex Pixia, that can benefit from Secondary Deadhead (unless it's a bug, but I don't think so, because last year they've fixed Titania's butterflies triggering Secondary Deadhead, but they did no change for Dex Pixia).

Of course, it would be much better if the arcane is directly installed on the Exalted weapon, instead of using a primary or secondary as a kind of "ranged stat stick".

[MzKsG]

In fact, DE may have regretted designing Exalted Weapons. Whether it's the early physical-type Exalted Weapons like Excalibur's Exalted Blade or Mesa's Peacemaker, or the ability-based Exalted Weapons like Gara and Khora's whips, they not only benefit from power strength mods but also from weapon mods, making it challenging to achieve balance. It is possible that as a result of this, DE changed their approach and introduced non-ability-based Exalted Weapons with Garuda and Sevagoth.

[MzKsG]

9分钟前 , (NSW)AegisFifi 说:

One of the exemples is Titania's Dex Pixia, that can benefit from Secondary Deadhead (unless it's a bug, but I don't think so, because last year they've fixed Titania's butterflies triggering Secondary Deadhead, but they did no change for Dex Pixia

Is it true? I haven't noticed. But I suppose that might not have been their original intention. What I mean is, if they allow Exalted weapons to benefit from Arcane effects, they could simply permit the installation of Arcanes directly on the Exalted weapons instead of borrowing them from other weapons.

[AegidiusF]

il y a 3 minutes, MzKsG a dit :

Is it true? I haven't noticed. But I suppose that might not have been their original intention. What I mean is, if they allow Exalted weapons to benefit from Arcane effects, they could simply permit the installation of Arcanes directly on the Exalted weapons instead of borrowing them from other weapons.

I totally agree with you.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

3 hours ago, MzKsG said:

Is it true? I haven't noticed. But I suppose that might not have been their original intention. What I mean is, if they allow Exalted weapons to benefit from Arcane effects, they could simply permit the installation of Arcanes directly on the Exalted weapons instead of borrowing them from other weapons.

Most Exalted Weapons are Melee weapons and Melee do not have Arcane slots excluding Zaws. There wouldn't be anything to equip to them unless they got Arcanes specifically for them. This would leave only Mesa, Titania, and Ivara uniquely in a position where they could equip an Arcane, whereas Garuda, Baruuk, Excalibur/Excalibur Umbra, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Wukong all would be out in the sticks unable to use one. 

And, yes, Titania does inherit whatever Arcane you put on your Secondary. Same with Mesa. The odd duck out is Ivara. She doesn't trigger Primary Arcane's nor does her bow seem to inherit their perks. 

This feels like fixing a problem that isn't a problem to me, because again, most Warframes wouldn't even have an Arcane to equip to begin with. The Warframes who do benefit from weapon Arcanes aren't usually too particular, though Mesa can only benefit from Merciless and Dexterity since Peacemaker cannot headshot. Titania is a bit more free-forming but I cannot for the life of me think of why someone would want to slot Cascadia Empowered on her. Maybe Cascadia Flare for the higher 480% damage over Merciless/Deadheads 360%. 

EDIT: Because it just isn't used almost at all, I forgot about my girl Hildryn's Baelfire. This also does not inherit Arcanes. So out of the four Warframes who'd be able to use Arcanes, only two actually get benefits from them, the other two do not. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by (PSN)FunyFlyBoy

[KitMeHarder]

5 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Some exalted are already being affected by primary or secondary Arcanes bonus. One of the exemples is Titania's Dex Pixia, that can benefit from Secondary Deadhead

2 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

And, yes, Titania does inherit whatever Arcane you put on your Secondary. Same with Mesa.

According to who? Dex Pixia and Regulators have never benefitted from the arcanes on your secondary and I just tested again to make sure.

2 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

This feels like fixing a problem that isn't a problem to me

It's a massive problem, along with acolyte mods, exilus mods, bonus stance mod capacity, etc... Besides rivens, exalted should have no irregularities compared to normal weapons.

Edited June 14, 2023 by KitMeHarder

[Qriist]

9 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Some exalted are already being affected by primary or secondary Arcanes bonus. One of the exemples is Titania's Dex Pixia, that can benefit from Secondary Deadhead

5 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

And, yes, Titania does inherit whatever Arcane you put on your Secondary.

5 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Maybe Cascadia Flare for the higher 480% damage over Merciless/Deadheads 360%. 

This is flat out wrong. Titania's Dex Pixia does not inherent any equipped secondary arcane benefits. I tested with Merciless, Deadhead, Encumber, and Cascadia Flare. The first three did not trigger at all via Dex Pixia. Cascadia Flare does trigger and stack as expected, because any heat source will trigger it, but it gave no additional damage to the Dex Pixias.

 

That said, what does and does not apply to the Dex Pixia is totally all over the map, as I ranted about in a different thread:

16 hours ago, Qriist said:

Another example off the top of my head is the incorehent treatment of Titania's Dex Pixia exalted weapons. They are an ability so Arbitration Drones are rightfully immune to them, but the Orowyrm is completely cheesed by someone having a Titania along.... despite the wyrm being totally immune to all other abilities. These special exalted pistols ostensibly don't count as either primaries or secondaries so most offensive warframe arcanes just flat out don't apply, but arcanes that affect specifically pistols still function. And oh by the way, while the relic crack buff to secondaries doesn't affect the Dex Pixia, the Zariman powerup to temporarily make all secondaries do only red crits does. Make it make sense, please, I beg you.

 

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 13 heures, KitMeHarder a dit :

Dex Pixia and Regulators have never benefitted from the arcanes on your secondary and I just tested again to make sure.

Il y a 9 heures, Qriist a dit :

This is flat out wrong. Titania's Dex Pixia does not inherent any equipped secondary arcane benefits. I tested with Merciless, Deadhead, Encumber, and Cascadia Flare. The first three did not trigger at all via Dex Pixia. Cascadia Flare does trigger and stack as expected, because any heat source will trigger it, but it gave no additional damage to the Dex Pixias.

They used to benefit from it, but it was fixed. I used it a lot in the past, but I tested today too and they do not benefit from it anymore. The Razorfly fix on update 32 probably fixed the Secondary Deadhead interaction with Dex Pixia too. Aaccording to the wiki (I havent tested yet), Dex Pixia are still affected by Exodia Arcanes, but it's perhaps intended, just like Cascadia Flare, that triggers on Heat status caused by any source, even abilities.

 

Le 07/09/2022 à 17:11, [DE]Marcus a dit :

Fixed Titania’s Razorflies triggering the effect of the Secondary Deadhead and Pax Seeker Arcanes. 

Since the introduction of Cascadia Flare, I do not use Secondary Deadhead for my secondary with Titania, so I didn't notice the fix, but it used to work and I used it a lot in the past.

Edited June 15, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[KitMeHarder]

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

The Razorfly fix on update 32 probably fixed the Secondary Deadhead interaction with Dex Pixia too.

Pax Seeker has always been buggy like that. But I'm very doubtful Dex Pixia ever benefitted from the damage buffs of Deadhead (just because the patch notes said Razorwings could proc it, doesn't mean the buff applied. I.E. just like how Flare works today.).

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 1 heure, KitMeHarder a dit :

doesn't mean the buff applied. I.E. just like how Flare works today.).

But the Cascadia Flare buff works for Dex Pixia damage. 

I just tested it with on the Simulacrum and it applied to the Dex Pixia damage. 

[Qriist]

  

33 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

But the Cascadia Flare buff works for Dex Pixia damage. 

I just tested it with on the Simulacrum and it applied to the Dex Pixia damage. 

I also tested this multiple times over the last couple days and my results conflict with yours. I'll upload a video here in a moment.

 

Edit: video uploaded

https://streamable.com/3xzvr3

 

You can see in this video that my damage with this test setup is 530 per shot, pre 50% armor strip from the heat status. Even after letting Cascadia Flare build up to max stacks that damage remains at 530.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Qriist

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 2 heures, Qriist a dit :

  

I also tested this multiple times over the last couple days and my results conflict with yours. I'll upload a video here in a moment.

 

Edit: video uploaded

https://streamable.com/3xzvr3

 

You can see in this video that my damage with this test setup is 530 per shot, pre 50% armor strip from the heat status. Even after letting Cascadia Flare build up to max stacks that damage remains at 530.

Tested again : the damage increase I was getting was from my Vulpaphyla, that I forgot to unequip before testing. 

I'm getting old... 

[Qriist]

38 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Tested again : the damage increase I was getting was from my Vulpaphyla, that I forgot to unequip before testing. 

I'm getting old... 

We've all been there. I'm no stranger to brain farts either! :)

[Birdframe_Prime]

Eh, I'm old.

On that note, I think that the Ability Weapons (I'm old enough that I hate calling them 'Exalted' because Valkyr's Claws existed years before Exalted Blade did) should be good on their own merit first.

I don't think we should even need to mod them, they should function out of the box for the Energy cost, and if you're feeling spicy, have conditional effects that allow them to scale up.

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 9 heures, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

Eh, I'm old.

On that note, I think that the Ability Weapons (I'm old enough that I hate calling them 'Exalted' because Valkyr's Claws existed years before Exalted Blade did) should be good on their own merit first.

I don't think we should even need to mod them, they should function out of the box for the Energy cost, and if you're feeling spicy, have conditional effects that allow them to scale up.

We are both then 👴🧓👵

 

I totally agree with you. By the way, most exalted weapons have some bonus that no other weapons have (even though some of them are kind of hidded). As you mentioned Valkyr Talons (I love to talk about this), they have the highest damage multiplier in the whole game : x120 on ground finishers, which are very easy to do on enemies grouped by Prolonged Paralysis, and it stacks with crit multiplier, damage type multiplier (if applied) and crit tier multiplier, it's multi target and has no fall off.

These last weeks, I've started useing Hyldrin's Balefire (I confess that I almost never used it before) and it is really nice (at least to some gameplays). I was really surprised by this weapon.

[PollexMessier]

I'm still waiting for exalted meles to get mod capacity from their stance.

[Hayaies]

Most non melee exalted weapons have fallen far behind their normal counterparts indeed. But since DE hasn't bothered making even basic bug fixes (unless they were explicit nerfs) to any of them in MANY years, I doubt they actually have any interest in rectifying this, or the here easily observed confusion how and what stacks with them. As much as it hurts the flair of the frames, just subsume roar onto the ability and forget that they were ever there, just like the development team did...

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, fastgamer2 said:

Most non melee exalted weapons have fallen far behind their normal counterparts indeed.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'most' of the non-melee Ability weapons, my friend...

Regulators are the highest DPS dual pistols in the game, with Dex Pixia coming in a close second behind them, mods like Archon Vitality make them even stronger at base. While there are some status builds that can make kills faster for other dual pistols, it's far from having fallen behind there. Artemis bow is the strongest damage (per hit and DPS wise) bow that uses actual arrows (as opposed to the Nataruk, Cinta or the Incarnon Genesis modes of certain bows), but also comes with innate multipliers from Ivara's other functions, and can even turn AoE with the Augment. Balefire is the per-shot single highest potential damage in an AoE for a Secondary, with the same modding for her 2, can instantly ping off nullifier bubbles with the Augment, and can even reclaim all of the energy/shield spent on the shot with that same Augment to make them infinitely sustainable.

Considering those are the only non-melee Ability weapons, currently, I have to wonder what you actually mean.

Unless you meant the 'Abilities that get affected by mods on your other weapons' ones, which aren't weapons, they're just Abilities with interesting flavour animations.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

On 2023-06-15 at 5:06 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Eh, I'm old.

On that note, I think that the Ability Weapons (I'm old enough that I hate calling them 'Exalted' because Valkyr's Claws existed years before Exalted Blade did) should be good on their own merit first.

I don't think we should even need to mod them, they should function out of the box for the Energy cost, and if you're feeling spicy, have conditional effects that allow them to scale up.

I kind of understand where you're coming from so I will specify on that note

In the sense that they shouldn't equip mods, no. They should as modding is the primary function of the game that allows for items to last forever. Matter of fact heard rumors of a movement for pseudo exalted weapons to be separately modded because of circuit.

In the sense they need buffs and still take mods, then yes I agree. Valkyr's talons have weak status and a poor outdated stance that needs a touch up not to even mention her augment for her 4 is both lackluster and doesn't fit how the warframe is played. Comparatively to other warframes, wukong had his Staff stance tweaked and updated and it ends up being...really good. 

"Oh but impact"

incarnon bo (shh)

that being said...

11 hours ago, fastgamer2 said:

Most non melee exalted weapons have fallen far behind their normal counterparts indeed. But since DE hasn't bothered making even basic bug fixes (unless they were explicit nerfs) to any of them in MANY years, I doubt they actually have any interest in rectifying this, or the here easily observed confusion how and what stacks with them. As much as it hurts the flair of the frames, just subsume roar onto the ability and forget that they were ever there, just like the development team did...

Oh boy.

If you're being serious I will kindly help you understand why the statement is....off.

Recommend trying out Ninjase's builds on overframe.

Mesa can run nourish with corrosive heat/cold regulators and furax augment mod for fire rate and insane dps on top of being practically unkillable.

Titania can run arcane pistoleer for 100% ammo efficiency, essentially making dex pixia the 2nd highest dps secondary in the entire game behind lex prime incarnon.

Ivara has an insanely powerful augment for her bow that deals massive aoe bleed damage and triple dips with prowl and breach/eclipse in some cases.

We don't mention hildryn's balefire. That is a copium exalted.

Regardless, exalted guns are on par if not above many weapons with the downside of draining your energy bar.

Melee weapons on the other hand have fallen off with the recent incarnons and in general people finding out the punch through "secret" I've known for a while...shame.

Serene storm while built into is fine can't compare to baruuk just being a completely undying weapons platform.

Excalibur is also a good weapons platform....

eclipse furious javelin damage cap melee weapons

Huh what? Anyway. His exalted is 1. Too slow 2. Too weak 3. Too outdated. Talk about base too because umbra's passive arguably works against the frame. 

Valkyr again needs a touch up. Strong slide attack? Sure. However...I recommend a redeemer prime or glaive prime at that point.

Pseudo exalteds work because they're cheap easy to maintain and take riven mods. 

Garuda prime's talons work because they're literally stronger venka prime talons making them the best claw melee in the entire game.

Sevagoth's shadow works because he's used to revive sevagoth and dump on Inaros.

If you ever have problems with exalted guns having low dps feel free to hmu. Melee wise though can only get so far.

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'most' of the non-melee Ability weapons, my friend...

Regulators are the highest DPS dual pistols in the game, with Dex Pixia coming in a close second behind them, mods like Archon Vitality make them even stronger at base. While there are some status builds that can make kills faster for other dual pistols, it's far from having fallen behind there. Artemis bow is the strongest damage (per hit and DPS wise) bow that uses actual arrows (as opposed to the Nataruk, Cinta or the Incarnon Genesis modes of certain bows), but also comes with innate multipliers from Ivara's other functions, and can even turn AoE with the Augment. Balefire is the per-shot single highest potential damage in an AoE for a Secondary, with the same modding for her 2, can instantly ping off nullifier bubbles with the Augment, and can even reclaim all of the energy/shield spent on the shot with that same Augment to make them infinitely sustainable.

Considering those are the only non-melee Ability weapons, currently, I have to wonder what you actually mean.

Unless you meant the 'Abilities that get affected by mods on your other weapons' ones, which aren't weapons, they're just Abilities with interesting flavour animations.

Ok OK sure.

Archon vitality reasonable.

Regulators are specifically the strongest DUAL Pistols. Suck it, felarx.

Oh no like you can literally default mod the regulators and it will still delete an acolyte any day of the week.

That's not true. Kuva bramma is with the drop of longbow sharpshot. Wanna know why?

The damage is multiplicative to modded damage, not additive to base damage.

Matter of fact I'm willing to bet that once I max the arcane out nataruk will dunk on Artemis in terms of dps. Doesn't make the bow bad at all. Different use case. 

Balefire argument is a bit lackluster. Nullifier bubbles aren't an issue when I can press 5, proc magus lockdown, and Nuke the nullifier inside.

No, It isn't. Raw damage? Sure....? But raw damage vs armor isn't relevant. Here are some comparisons.

Any of the recent incarnon adapters, laetum, THE MIGHTY SEER. Not a lot of comparisons.

The issue with balefire arrives when it can't do much vs armor, but then again hildryn has armor removal. Issue is, most secondaries it competes with give 0 f's about armor.

I think they may have a harder time modding because the game has such of a garbage way of conveying how modding works...kinda self explanatory when you see +impact on a mutalist cernos. Then again. Tiring to build every weapon to be viable, take it from me.

I think instead what would be cool is if we had another endgame mode similar to archon hunts where we could put gems on our guns (excluding incarnon adapters, one or the other) and passively buff them. I don't think just adding an arcane to it solves anything. I think making players having a reason to play the game and use said weapons fixes it. 

[Hayaies]

Sporelacer, Daiku, Cernos prime, Bramma, a dozen or so incarnon weapons, do I really need to keep going?
Considering that even listing all the exulted weapons, or not making half the post about unrelated melee weapons, before trying to whiteknight seems to be a challenge here, I suppose not.
If you think having to use an augment, viral, and galvanized to make an "exulted" weapon even remotely keep up with damage is a good place to be in, I suppose you havent unlocked all the helmenith abilities yet, or havent played the game far back enough to know what power level an exulted weapon used to be, in which case I'll happily excuse your passive sass
 

Edited June 18, 2023 by fastgamer2

[MzKsG]

3小时前 , fastgamer2 说:

Sporelacer, Daiku, Cernos prime, Bramma, a dozen or so incarnon weapons, do I really need to keep going?
Considering that even listing all the exulted weapons, or not making half the post about unrelated melee weapons, before trying to whiteknight seems to be a challenge here, I suppose not.
If you think having to use an augment, viral, and galvanized to make an "exulted" weapon even remotely keep up with damage is a good place to be in, I suppose you havent unlocked all the helmenith abilities yet, or havent played the game far back enough to know what power level an exulted weapon used to be, in which case I'll happily excuse your passive sass
 

Arcanes not only provide damage bonuses, but they also offer new configuration ideas. For example, there are arcanes that enhance damage based on status effects, headshots, or consecutive kills. With different arcanes, a weapon can have different configuration ideas and more gameplay possibilities. I believe Exalted Weapons should not be isolated from these options.

[Pizzarugi]

The last thing Mesa needs is to be able to take advantage of Secondary Merciless.

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Exoni Prime said:

In the sense that they shouldn't equip mods, no.

I genuinely mean; These are Abilities, and therefore should be good with Warframe modding alone.

No Ability should ever need mods from any other equipment slot to be good. This applies, from my perspective, to every Ability that has Melee mod bonuses, Combo Counter bonuses, or even direct modding for the weapons.

I believe, in my heart of hearts, that DE simply were unwilling to make Ability weapons good enough to stand on their own as Abilities. It's an excuse for Abilities that don't hold up on their own, because it means they can balance them as weapons instead of as Abilities.

DE don't actually need to come up with unique or interesting functions for their Ability Weapons anymore, because they just have to make them perpetually a better damage dealer than their equivalents in the same class. Look at the frames that have been given Ability weapons since the change (June 2018 with the release of Excal Umbra) that allowed the modding of the weapons in particular; both Baruuk and Hildryn were in the works before the change, so while Baruuk has a cool function of having both projectile attacks as well as having the push/pull/lift that DE previewed before the change, on the down side Hildryn's Balefires have no actual unique function other than their high damage (and being a 1st ability instead of a 4th).

The only other frame that was released since that change with Ability weapons is Sevagoth, and his Shadow's claws are nothing but high-damage versions claw weapons.

Worse, we have Garuda who has 'Passive' claw weapons that are (even after buffs) not better than a few of the other claw weapons, and aren't even classed as Melee for Melee Only conditions on missions.

Since this change, DE have not even tried to do a proper Ability Weapon frame. Even Kullervo, the frame they're releasing next week, a frame who seems to have a lot of knives, won't be using an Ability weapon.

It's actually upsetting, from a player that loves frames that have a kit that can synergise with a particular style of play so well that they actually call upon that weapon as one of their abilities... and none of those weapons are good with just Warframe mods.

I will go one step further with this: Some of the Ability weapons are not even all that great with the weapon modding, only gaining their actual potential and lasting damage with a separate Augment for the Warframe. If one exists.

While Peacemaker is apparently incredible as a modded gun, players cried for literal years to get Mesa's Waltz made available in the main PvE content. Regardless of individual opinions on it, that Augment is considered the reason Peacemaker is so powerful for a large enough part of the player base. So much so that even I'm considering slapping it on for the Circuit.

While you can do direct damage with both Exalted Blade and Desert Wind up to decent levels, the two Augments are what sets them both off. For EB both Status and the option to be an element instead of base IPS, and for Desert Wind to give adaptive damage types to the enemies he's hitting, these Augments are the reason those abilities don't drop off as the levels rise.

And no matter how much damage and healing you can get with Valkyr's Claws, the Stance on that melee is so bad that players actively avoid using it and show up on the Forums regularly enough to re-iterate the need for a rework that it's almost part of my Forum Bingo Card.

I find it hard to, without devolving into complete diatribes, accurately portray how much I feel that modding Ability Weapons directly was a cop-out by DE.

Players have, in recent years, complained that things like the release of the Helminth allows DE to produce a frame with an ability that is almost deliberately sub-par so that the players can 'fix' it with a Helminth ability. And that appears to have a little basis to it, because while Xaku was buffed to be pretty darn good, and so has Lavos, frames like Sevagoth are just sacrificed for Gloom, and we have Yareli, Caliban, Gyre and Voruna, all with their own odd abilities to be removed, and while Styanax was a fairly good stand-alone frame, the most solid release has been Citrine more than two full years after the August 2020 release of the Helminth expansion.

I'm older than that, and I think that the modded Ability weapon change was made so that DE could largely ignore the whole concept. They don't have to think about how the Abilities will interact, they don't have to think about how any unique functions will mess up a new update, they can just have them classed as regular weapons with a few extra bits, and include them in that stat block for testing purposes.

By taking the Ability out of the Ability weapons, and leaving them instead as just Weapons that take up an Ability slot on the frame... I think that these frames lost something that could have been amazing.

And I pity even more the frames that require stat-sticks to function.

[(XBOX)Exoni Prime]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I genuinely mean; These are Abilities, and therefore should be good with Warframe modding alone.

No Ability should ever need mods from any other equipment slot to be good. This applies, from my perspective, to every Ability that has Melee mod bonuses, Combo Counter bonuses, or even direct modding for the weapons.

I believe, in my heart of hearts, that DE simply were unwilling to make Ability weapons good enough to stand on their own as Abilities. It's an excuse for Abilities that don't hold up on their own, because it means they can balance them as weapons instead of as Abilities.

DE don't actually need to come up with unique or interesting functions for their Ability Weapons anymore, because they just have to make them perpetually a better damage dealer than their equivalents in the same class. Look at the frames that have been given Ability weapons since the change (June 2018 with the release of Excal Umbra) that allowed the modding of the weapons in particular; both Baruuk and Hildryn were in the works before the change, so while Baruuk has a cool function of having both projectile attacks as well as having the push/pull/lift that DE previewed before the change, on the down side Hildryn's Balefires have no actual unique function other than their high damage (and being a 1st ability instead of a 4th).

The only other frame that was released since that change with Ability weapons is Sevagoth, and his Shadow's claws are nothing but high-damage versions claw weapons.

Worse, we have Garuda who has 'Passive' claw weapons that are (even after buffs) not better than a few of the other claw weapons, and aren't even classed as Melee for Melee Only conditions on missions.

Since this change, DE have not even tried to do a proper Ability Weapon frame. Even Kullervo, the frame they're releasing next week, a frame who seems to have a lot of knives, won't be using an Ability weapon.

It's actually upsetting, from a player that loves frames that have a kit that can synergise with a particular style of play so well that they actually call upon that weapon as one of their abilities... and none of those weapons are good with just Warframe mods.

I will go one step further with this: Some of the Ability weapons are not even all that great with the weapon modding, only gaining their actual potential and lasting damage with a separate Augment for the Warframe. If one exists.

While Peacemaker is apparently incredible as a modded gun, players cried for literal years to get Mesa's Waltz made available in the main PvE content. Regardless of individual opinions on it, that Augment is considered the reason Peacemaker is so powerful for a large enough part of the player base. So much so that even I'm considering slapping it on for the Circuit.

While you can do direct damage with both Exalted Blade and Desert Wind up to decent levels, the two Augments are what sets them both off. For EB both Status and the option to be an element instead of base IPS, and for Desert Wind to give adaptive damage types to the enemies he's hitting, these Augments are the reason those abilities don't drop off as the levels rise.

And no matter how much damage and healing you can get with Valkyr's Claws, the Stance on that melee is so bad that players actively avoid using it and show up on the Forums regularly enough to re-iterate the need for a rework that it's almost part of my Forum Bingo Card.

I find it hard to, without devolving into complete diatribes, accurately portray how much I feel that modding Ability Weapons directly was a cop-out by DE.

Players have, in recent years, complained that things like the release of the Helminth allows DE to produce a frame with an ability that is almost deliberately sub-par so that the players can 'fix' it with a Helminth ability. And that appears to have a little basis to it, because while Xaku was buffed to be pretty darn good, and so has Lavos, frames like Sevagoth are just sacrificed for Gloom, and we have Yareli, Caliban, Gyre and Voruna, all with their own odd abilities to be removed, and while Styanax was a fairly good stand-alone frame, the most solid release has been Citrine more than two full years after the August 2020 release of the Helminth expansion.

I'm older than that, and I think that the modded Ability weapon change was made so that DE could largely ignore the whole concept. They don't have to think about how the Abilities will interact, they don't have to think about how any unique functions will mess up a new update, they can just have them classed as regular weapons with a few extra bits, and include them in that stat block for testing purposes.

By taking the Ability out of the Ability weapons, and leaving them instead as just Weapons that take up an Ability slot on the frame... I think that these frames lost something that could have been amazing.

And I pity even more the frames that require stat-sticks to function.

Alright halfway through and getting a bit tired of seeing a lot of....misconceptions. these are opinions I'm sure but I can definitively address the issues respectively.

So from what you're saying you want the game to evolve backwards. Or you want the merulina treatment to every exalted weapon Ability in the game. To either of which I say please no. Half of the reason as to why exalted weapons are strong derives from the fact they can be modded. Take an amp. Shoot a level 50 corrupted bombard. See how long it takes to kill the bombard. Then, proceed to make brozime's why wouldn't you use hek build and shoot it. Chances are, it dies in one shot. Why? Because anything that isn't effected by mods in this game ends up being complete garbage, unless we want to talk about tribute and how just amazing that Ability makes titania (so much so its her subsume slot!!!!! Poggers!)

I mean with all due respect if a weapon is an ability you're probably going to mod the ability like a weapon. Doesn't that make more sense?

I'm sorry but the fact that you said Garuda prime's Claws are one of the weakest melee weapons in the game is factually and mathematically incorrect. With all due respect have you legitimately made an attempt to forma and mod the weapon? If you take the exact same build on venka prime (the current 2nd best claw melee) and compare it at maximum potential dps to Garuda prime's claws...it doesn't even come close to the sheer power creep of Garuda prime's talons not mentioning how overpowered and busted the warframe already is. I barely play the frame personally because she's just octavia with extra steps but I'm telling you that if you build into her talons they make every melee weapon in the game but one irrelevant.

The one melee weapon is glaive prime, by the way.

Peacemaker's exilus augment for actual late game is massive amounts of copium and isn't required by any means. Recasting the ability doesn't remove the timers on galvanized mods making the augment more of a casual preference than it being of any actual use. It's not Baruuk's Serene storm augment of just required.

Again I will say that exalted Blade is a horrible exalted melee and you're far better off subsuming eclipse over it to get damage cap plague zaw contagion nukes.

Baruuk on the other hand I will admit literally requires the augment for the exalted melee weapon to be good. Though he's so much damn tankier than excalibur could dream of that it easily makes up for the loss of a mod slot. But in that argument, half of the overpowered Augments shouldn't exist and the ability should already do that... lol.

Let's say I take mk1 braton to steel path and delete an acolyte in... two seconds. You're going to ask how I did that. It's much easier to look at the options that are stronger and forget how powercrept we as the player have became to where majority of the time it doesn't matter. And btw if you legit want to see my mk1-braton one tap level 190 corrupted heavy gunners in base form lmk.

Even more proud of my Kubrow nuking them.

Anyway getting off topic here!

I will admit valkyr's stance is complete and utter rubbish and it's such of a shame because she deserves better. The slide attack while strong is a boring way to play the cat warframe.

Okay but on the other hand if exalted weapon abilities weren't directly modded then you'd still have them as being pseudo exalted and duviri circuit would be WORSE. why? Because pseudo exalted warframes like atlas and khora get cucked in terms of having chances of getting the overpowered stat stick to getting the default mod config that literally nobody wants to run.

Did you seriously just say sevagoth only gets subsumed for Gloom?

It's true, that's literally the sheep I play with. What a shame.

Helminth isn't much of powercreep as it is a customization feature the way that DE Intentionally and deliberately told us on the devstream. Or was it tennocon? Any who.

I mean with all due respect I could give 0 f's about ability interaction. There. I said it. I want the abilities to have a unique purpose and not just be one #*!%ing frame slapped on to another one just because what they do is that good. I can name a plethora of warframes that lack ability synergy yet end up being some of the strongest warframes in the game.

I pity more how uninformed brainwashed and privileged the community has made itself out to be in recent years. 1. The meta that people refer to is made up by a portion of the community that is so minor nobody at DE would listen to them but because they have a camera and a video editor push out the idea of "my build is the best this is the only way to play the game" and it completely ruins warframe's development. So much so that DE refuses to make content that isn't revolved around power fantasy anymore, and I'm all in for that.

2. As for the privileged part, I think that specifically of all of the exalted ability warframes listed realistically hildryn and valkyr need the most attention; but instead of that, we're too focused on nerfing them and turning them into a hydroid. Seriously?

I'm an old player too and I think that being able to separately mod exalted weapons has not only been a vast improvement mechanic wise but also a lot better for new players. Because how in the actual hell is a new player supposed to understand that their equipped weapon affects the exalted weapon on top of the other numerous amounts of content that lack information because of a bad new player tutorial? 

Again hope there's understanding that regardless of our differences there is respect for each other as we both understand we are passionate about our views. And I'm not going to be the person to say your views are wrong. With that said, I hope that I can atleast add a different perspective that can make a more grounded solution to the issue discussed.

Edited June 18, 2023 by (XBOX)Exoni Prime
Apparently I can't count.