Blindly following the "meta" is the single worst statergy in the game and actively ruins it for others.

[HonorGuard2074]

12 hours ago, RichardKam said:

The problem with meta is people trying to rank every species in the entire animal kingdom by their ability to swim.

Every frame is good as long as they can get their jobs done while you are having fun. 

As for Limbo, I think the long standing problem is Limbo always stops other people from having fun. 

will say it depends on the setup

 

Any ability heavy setup is generally uneffected (only your actual weapons are effected) ,but I would say adding a CD to banishing a player would be a good idea

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

11 hours ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

I have yet to find a reasonably comfortable build where shield gating is the main focus. I have never seen the viability other than keeping myself from being 1 shot (Which was the whole purpose of shield gating in the first place.) Im a wisp main and I don't like being 1 shot, that is my take on shield gating and the only reason why I want it's existence.


 

True. The only frame I can conveniently shield gate with is Wisp, not because of shield gating, but because I can cast 2 and 3 whenever shields pop to guarantee my survivability. 

Also electric mote and invisibility help a lot as well because now nothing is even shooting at me half the time.

Edited July 7, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Nok-Rntha]

That's a lot of words for "I don't like how other people are playing this game" even though there's a Solo, Invite-only or Friends-only option in matchmaking.
Don't like what people in pubs are doing? Play on your own or with like-minded people.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

14 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

First off, as long as you're having fun and not ruining the game for others, go off. Use whatever frames, weapons, pets, etc you want. I wish that wasn't a "controversial" statement but to some it is. 

• Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

I understand that some people use Limbo intentionally to annoy people, but some people actually enjoy the "controlled" playstyle that you get with him, with the only substitutes to said playstyle being the meta frames Revenant and Wisp who can effectively lock down every enemy trying to attack them while avoiding all of the damage. (Even then, Limbo has more defense than them.) 

Yes Limbo can be annoying, but I myself rarely see him outside of defense.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

10 hours ago, FBalfour said:

Shield Gatling sounds cool. Unfortunately Rapid-Fire Hildryn doesn't exist (as far as I know). If you're talking about Shield Gating, though? My entire existence proves you wrong. I enjoy running around SP with Kullervo, Nidus, and Unkillberon (no shields, no shield gating. There is only Pain and those too weak to seek it.)

Yeah, tank frames exist. That's why people run frames like Inaros or Revenant that allow you to have a chill time in high levels. 

Also even weaker frames are capable of running adaptation + Vitality + Armor to survive, with helminth providing even more armor (or damage reduction via null star).

[Karyst]

How do I know what will be meta next week?

[(NSW)jhj82]

The only "meta" that matters in WF is eidolons because of the time-gating. That, and de's inability to give more options to buff amp dmg except with volt. We can all do hunts with any frame BUT the most efficient way to take down shields is using volt's shield. Sure we can use any other frame and not care when we're solo but when in squad and your role is VS you better be using volt to get your 6x3

[Zakalwe]

2 hours ago, Nok-Rntha said:

That's a lot of words for "I don't like how other people are playing this game" even though there's a Solo, Invite-only or Friends-only option in matchmaking.
Don't like what people in pubs are doing? Play on your own or with like-minded people.

This is kinda ironic honestly. They're not saying people who enjoy min/max are wrong, they're saying "play how you want" which includes those players.

Their issue is players who obsess over meta to the point they actively negatively intrude on others.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Zakalwe

[(PSN)Unstar]

18 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

The TL;DR is this:

• There's a vocal small subset of players who get big mad when someone gets bigger numbers than their "meta" build.
• New players are often fed false and misleading information under the guise of it being the only way to succeed.
• The "meta" is easily manipulated by farming/trading groups who want to maximise profits.
• Shield-gating is awful.
• Don't camp in Survival.
• Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

I agree that people should play how they want and not give others a hard time about their personal choices.

That said, I hope you see the hypocrisy in championing your own preferences while telling others how they should play Survival and being S#&$ty to players who play Limbo.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

58 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I agree that people should play how they want and not give others a hard time about their personal choices.

That said, I hope you see the hypocrisy in championing your own preferences while telling others how they should play Survival and being S#&$ty to players who play Limbo.

I dunno about OP, but I think there's a healthy middle ground where we chill until someone uses a completely trolled build. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I dunno about OP, but I think there's a healthy middle ground where we chill until someone uses a completely trolled build. 

I'm confused about what that has to do with anything either OP or I said?  Trolling wasn't on the table, and hopefully it goes without saying that if players are intentionally going out of their way to grief other players, that's a violation of ToS and you can report that.

[A-Flying-Brick]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I agree that people should play how they want and not give others a hard time about their personal choices.

That said, I hope you see the hypocrisy in championing your own preferences while telling others how they should play Survival and being S#&$ty to players who play Limbo.

Without offering a viable alternative you can't solve the problem. Life support drops have been rebalanced to make camping no longer viable but people are still championing it as the only way to do survival. The better thing to do is to not just complain "meta bad" but to explain why but also offer a solution.

As for Limbo, I've made a thread on why Limbo is toxic and needs a reword to remove his toxic elements before only for Limbo mains to try and deflect and claim "other frames are worse", "you know you can roll out of rift, right?"  or "he's best at defence so stop complaining". Hunt up the thread if you want but the TL;DR is Limbo is a toxic frame used by many players for the express purpose of being toxic. He has abilities that can actively ruin the game for others and is in desperate need of a rework.

I do see the problem with "this way is wrong, do it my way" thinking but I'm not demanding people must do it my way. There are many other viable stratergies for Survival and I'm not saying every Limbo player is a toxic PoS (but oh boy a lot of them are). I'm offering a solution rather than just saying "it bad".

Edited July 7, 2023 by A-Flying-Brick

[(PSN)Unstar]

2 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

There are many other viable stratergies for Survival and I'm not saying every Limbo player is a toxic PoS (but oh boy a lot of them are).

Ah, your TL;DR's phrasing made it sound like you were saying that.  Glad to hear that's not what you intended!

[A-Flying-Brick]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Ah, your TL;DR's phrasing made it sound like you were saying that.  Glad to hear that's not what you intended!

That was more of a satirical stab at the Limbo mains who were so vocal about the previous thread, that was the title and they were big mad that it wasn't just "Limbo bad, nerf please". I'm actually surprised they haven't rolled in here to derail this one with "but Frost Snowglobes are worse".

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

That was more of a satirical stab at the Limbo mains who were so vocal about the previous thread, that was the title and they were big mad that it wasn't just "Limbo bad, nerf please". I'm actually surprised they haven't rolled in here to derail this one with "but Frost Snowglobes are worse".

Listen, you.

You get up off my boys Limbo and Frost or we be scuffin. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm confused about what that has to do with anything either OP or I said?  Trolling wasn't on the table, and hopefully it goes without saying that if players are intentionally going out of their way to grief other players, that's a violation of ToS and you can report that.

I used troll as a term to describe insanely inapropriate builds. 

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Listen, you.

You get up off my boys Limbo and Frost or we be scuffin. 

[FBalfour]

People like acting like the Meta is just builds, but it's so much more annoying than that. I can't tell you how many times I walk into an exterminate mission and see people leaving behind trails of enemies because "The Meta is to only attack groups" when it screws the waypoint for everyone else and makes the mission take significantly longer when half the enemies are scattered across the map and you have to go back to get them because somebody sprinted all the way to the end, completely outside of affinity range, so it's not even beneficial to the rest of the team in the team game where one of the in-game lore virtues is Cooperation

Edited July 9, 2023 by FBalfour
forgot to place the word "only"

[A-Flying-Brick]

Just now, FBalfour said:

People like acting like the Meta is just builds, but it's so much more annoying than that. I can't tell you how many times I walk into an exterminate mission and see people leaving behind trails of enemies because "The Meta is to attack groups" when it screws the waypoint for everyone else and makes the mission take significantly longer when half the enemies are scattered across the map and you have to go back to get them because somebody sprinted all the way to the end, completely outside of affinity range, so it's not even beneficial to the rest of the team in the team game where one of the in-game lore virtues is Cooperation

For sure. Even worse is the "meta" trend of running the brightist energy colours possible with flashy/explosive weapons. Yes I know you can turn off Bloom and turn down effect brightness but that's not the point. There are players who actively trying to hurt other players by causing seizures at worst and eye strain at best. I've been in lobbies where they have openly admitted to the fact (ofc reported them for that).

I was talking to a friend about horrible meta players and we had someone join our lobby with pure white energy. While they weren't spamming it in our faces, it did remind me of some of the awful players that have plagued my lobbies. There are legitimately players who don't know bright energy colours are a problem and are horrified when they learn that it can be harmful to photosensitive people.

It would be nice for some kind of in game warning when deciding you're energy colour. Something simple like "(i) Bright energy colours may cause discomfort for other players, consider using duller colours if you intend to play with others." Since banning/removing certain tones will just ruin things like Captura and fashion frame.

[emmyemi]

49 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

For sure. Even worse is the "meta" trend of running the brightist energy colours possible with flashy/explosive weapons. Yes I know you can turn off Bloom and turn down effect brightness but that's not the point. There are players who actively trying to hurt other players by causing seizures at worst and eye strain at best. I've been in lobbies where they have openly admitted to the fact (ofc reported them for that).

I was talking to a friend about horrible meta players and we had someone join our lobby with pure white energy. While they weren't spamming it in our faces, it did remind me of some of the awful players that have plagued my lobbies. There are legitimately players who don't know bright energy colours are a problem and are horrified when they learn that it can be harmful to photosensitive people.

It would be nice for some kind of in game warning when deciding you're energy colour. Something simple like "(i) Bright energy colours may cause discomfort for other players, consider using duller colours if you intend to play with others." Since banning/removing certain tones will just ruin things like Captura and fashion frame.

This is a topic that I'm interested in because I know for sure that there are people out there who just don't know how irritating and even potentially dangerous it can be for other players.

I think it might be more effective if DE were to introduce an accessibility option that reduces the intensity of bright energy colors on teammates' abilities and weapons without affecting darker / duller colors, without removing the effects themselves. In the meantime I'll always recommend that people be conscious of their color choices in public lobbies, but it isn't something we should have to be requesting from other players.

[FBalfour]

10 minutes ago, emmyemi said:

This is a topic that I'm interested in because I know for sure that there are people out there who just don't know how irritating and even potentially dangerous it can be for other players.

I think it might be more effective if DE were to introduce an accessibility option that reduces the intensity of bright energy colors on teammates' abilities and weapons without affecting darker / duller colors, without removing the effects themselves. In the meantime I'll always recommend that people be conscious of their color choices in public lobbies, but it isn't something we should have to be requesting from other players.

YES! THIS! I 100% SUPPORT THIS!

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I want to add that some of us like big boom explosive launchers, such as bramma genuinely. I'm gonna use it no matter how much they nerf it because it's cool and fun. 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

For sure. Even worse is the "meta" trend of running the brightist energy colours possible with flashy/explosive weapons. Yes I know you can turn off Bloom and turn down effect brightness but that's not the point. There are players who actively trying to hurt other players by causing seizures at worst and eye strain at best. I've been in lobbies where they have openly admitted to the fact (ofc reported them for that).

I was talking to a friend about horrible meta players and we had someone join our lobby with pure white energy. While they weren't spamming it in our faces, it did remind me of some of the awful players that have plagued my lobbies. There are legitimately players who don't know bright energy colours are a problem and are horrified when they learn that it can be harmful to photosensitive people.

It would be nice for some kind of in game warning when deciding you're energy colour. Something simple like "(i) Bright energy colours may cause discomfort for other players, consider using duller colours if you intend to play with others." Since banning/removing certain tones will just ruin things like Captura and fashion frame.

People need to stop using bright colors as much as people need to stop using a single term to describe everything possible they dont like. Players using bright colors is not some meta. As you say it is a trend, leave it at that, that word describes what it is to its fullest. If you need to add something add "troll", "sheep" or "mainstream" infront of it since meta has nothing to do with it in any shape or form. They are all mimics or copycats of something they think is "kewl", it is nothing new and it wont go away, no matter if it is a game or real life, someone will be a fan of someone doing something and do so aswell thinking they are original or "one of the guys" in the process. One track minds, sheep, mainstream followers with no fresh ideas themselves. Meta is atleast used in order to be as effective as possible doing what you do, not because it is "kewl" or because someone wants to be "one of the guys".

[SneakyErvin]

Dobule post forum mess.

Edited July 9, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[A-Flying-Brick]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

People need to stop using bright colors as much as people need to stop using a single term to describe everything possible they dont like. Players using bright colors is not some meta. As you say it is a trend, leave it at that, that word describes what it is to its fullest. If you need to add something add "troll", "sheep" or "mainstream" infront of it since meta has nothing to do with it in any shape or form. They are all mimics or copycats of something they think is "kewl", it is nothing new and it wont go away, no matter if it is a game or real life, someone will be a fan of someone doing something and do so aswell thinking they are original or "one of the guys" in the process. One track minds, sheep, mainstream followers with no fresh ideas themselves. Meta is atleast used in order to be as effective as possible doing what you do, not because it is "kewl" or because someone wants to be "one of the guys".

The issue is more that the same subset of players very often have many of the toxic behavours that have been described in the thread. This near religious devotion to any part of the game that can have a "meta" is their main identifying feature. Most people here have had simular toxic experiances with them. As pointed out before they see Warframe as a job and not a game.

The problem is it's less of a "one of the guys" one and more of an elitism one. To quote one meta-moron: "seeking perfection or as close to it as possible". They want to be better as flex, not to have fun. To reiterate it's ok to copy a build you like or use a weapon because it's "kewl" but when it negatively affects others, that's when it goes too far. That's what these players are doing, ruining for others so they can be the "best". 

In addition, you need to grow, change and adapt, not mindlessly follow whatever "the meta" is. A great example is Kullervo. He has been out for less than a month and there's already the "meta" of swapping out his 1 and running max range. If you ask them why, they'll say "because it's the meta" "because his 1 is weak" when they have never used his 1 or tried any other builds. The endless cycle of "because it's the meta" they must copy and not question it. 

It's less of a "trend" and more of a mindset. One of elitism, bullying and manipulation. It's their tantrums and harassment when they don't get their way ruins the game for others. It's that rigid worldview of being the best at the cost of others. It's trying to cause a photosensitive seizure in their squadmates so they can get more kills in a pve environment. It's disgraceful and goes against the spirit of the game and I'm more than glad to shine a light on it.