A proposed Hydroid Rework

[OKmartIsOkay]

The captain of the seas has been in the depths for far too long. The goal of this proposed rework is to hopefully bring hydroid back up and out of the dark depths of the current meta, back to sailing the high tides, and crashing through the hordes of enemies with the rage of the seas behind his strength. Additional goals are to increase his kit's mobility to bring him up to date with current gameplay, and allow for synergies between certain Helminth abilities, but to also make the abilities a hard choice for what to remove. 

 

Proposed Reworked Ability and Augment:

Remove the charge mechanic entirely as it slows gameplay, but keep the effects of the previous abilities full charge. Maybe adjust energy costs and reduce range. Increase the stagger to allow for ground finishers with increased duration for enemies on the ground during the barrage.

As for the Augment:

Polluted Barrage: Each projectile procs three* single* stacks of a random status, except for heat, gas, radiation, and blast because Hydroid is wet and heat and its subsidiary procs don't make sense.

*counts affected by strength potentially, could be more or less. 

 

Tidal Surge and Undertow:

I think these abilities need to be combined in order to add in a new ability to his 2 or 3. My idea for the combo ability is to increase the mobility of undertow and increase its damage potential with synergy to proc weapons and the 1's new augment. 

Being in Undertow will have status clearing for self and allies on cast. Buff the general movement speed. We're already stuck to the ground, and being slow is boring. As for the invincibility, change it to invisibility and potentially have Hydroid still be on the surface to grab enemies.

Tidal Surge will be triggered by bullet jumping in Undertow, costing 5 energy to pull enemies grouped into the Tow. 

Enemies within Undertow take 3% of their health taken per second so that it takes 

30 seconds at base to drown them. Most of the time it's better to kill enemies with a weapon anyways, but with viral and a strength effect this has potential to be a strong ability late game. 

 

My ideas for a new ability that I think should be a buff of sorts.

• Torrential Rage: a buff that increases damage by five percent per status applied, scales with strength and duration, while range affects how far allies have to be to get the buff. 

• The Currents Tear: a buff to increase slash proc damage and increase gore chance where water bursts from slain enemies.

• Rouge of the Depths: A wave of slashing torrent that pushes enemies back and applies slash. 

My Idea for Hydroids 4th ability is to change the tentacles from a swarm that locks down an area to an area of effect around the player in order to increase the kit’s mobility, as well as add a defense strip. Make the ability duration based, but act like gloom in the sense that it follows you. Instead of tentacles grabbing enemies and flailing them around, have the kraken follow Hydroid and grab enemies and crush defenses while holding them for a short time to make them vulnerable to headshots. This I believe would help Hydroid to be a lot more current with the pace of the game, and hopefully bring him up to the surface of the usage charts for the game.

Keep the extra loot augment. Extra loot is extra good. Maybe make the armor strip an augment and add the loot chance to the ability innately since he's a pirate. 

 

[TheGuyver]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/34-warframes/

[(PSN)robotwars7]

probably should go in Fan Concepts.

personally I feel that, despite her cringe factor, Yareli is a better water frame, BUT there is only one Pirate/Sea Monster frame, and that's Hydroid. I hope for a rework that leans more into the pirate/Sea Monster themes.

[(NSW)HydroidPrime]

I personally feel the 1st ability is underwhelming and an easy choice to helminth out. The rest of Hydroids kit synergizes well with grouping enemies and armor strip, whis is what should be in place here. Maybe some sort of dredge net, similar to harrows condemn/khoras ensnare. If dredge net was a new ability, the extra loot source would be a cool synergy here.

The secondary tidal surge is a fast paced way to travel and good for certain game modes like capture and disruption. The downside is it does not keep the enemies hit by it contained. If that is not changed to group them up better then enemies hit could give back shields/over shield, or their armor could be stripped a certain percent. This ability is fun imo, some tilesets are tougher to navigate through than others. Also you get stuck at the top of certain staircases and similar objects. Aim gliding is very fun with the ability to jump across large area, add some aim glide mods and try it out. Higher duration for more speed.

The third ability is usually regarded as his worst. This I don't disagree, but there are good synergy's and good crowd control if used right. Pop in and out real quick to set up easy ground finishers. Also it's a nice hiding spot when enemies get overwhelming. I like that eximus units don't effect the ability survivability when you are in the puddle.

The 4th ability is great area cc/choke point cc. Unfortunately enemies don't get killed in higher level missions and also ragdolled and harder to kill (weapon/amp synergies can help here). Slash damage procs would be nice here to replace magnetic. Nekros+Hydroid can be bros again. A nice passive for this ability would be Hydroid and allies within kraken tentacle range have increased weapon crit chance. 

I love Hydroid but I can see why he is very underwhelming in today's gameplay. Some minor buffs could get him in a better place.

[0_The_F00l]

I really wish they do more with the kraken than just have a visual representation.

 

I really like the idea of combining undertow and tidal wave , 

Visually you could have hydroid summon the kraken under him and he stands all captain like changing his movesets slightly , dashing causes tidal wave, melee attacks causes tentacle pulls and ranged attacks has the kraken shoot jumping /aim gliding has him temporarily use his ranged weapons.

You would lose the invulnerability while "mounted" but has a "water coat" overguard / DR/ damage transfer for the number of enemies in undertow.

 

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

13 hours ago, OKmartIsOkay said:

Enemies within Undertow take 3% of their health taken per second so that it takes 

30 seconds at base to drown them. Most of the time it's better to kill enemies with a weapon anyways, but with viral and a strength effect this has potential to be a strong ability late game. 

Instead of undertow keeping Hydroid in it how about give hydroid a reason to get out of it

-undertow your request but it lasts 15 seconds and Hydroid can leave it for 30%~50% damage reduction, 50%~100% strength and range (Rare range buff) Captains Temper/Courage for the 30~40~45 seconds (may be able to allies at half strength for abilities, maybe full for damage reduction),

strength of buff may be from how long Hydroid undertows if that happens 5 or 8 seconds for full buff no exception

 

13 hours ago, OKmartIsOkay said:

Torrential Rage: a buff that increases damage by five percent per status applied, scales with strength and duration, while range affects how far allies have to be to get the buff. 

I would choose this because scurvy, rats, seafared infection and invasive pests + tentacle swarm [enemies should drop loot while being shaken around and on death ie pirate = looting dead or alive

And with your

13 hours ago, OKmartIsOkay said:

Remove the charge mechanic entirely as it slows gameplay, but keep the effects of the previous abilities full charge. Maybe adjust energy costs and reduce range. Increase the stagger to allow for ground finishers with increased duration for enemies on the ground during the barrage.

Then this might boost Hydroid to recognition of good which is better then 12 floors/depths below

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

then again his passive (tentacles on slam)

How would this be improved on?

Edited July 30, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

Just in case people need a reference on what he’s capable of right now:

The idea of adding a functionality of bullet jump + Undertow = Tidal Surge seems interesting!

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

a fix for undertow affecting teamwork with allies or players would be making a small box that makes the map tiles or effected area disappear and allow enemies to be attacked via i can shoot into it at a floating enemy (yareli style but in the surface)

Then add a underwater effect to the box like a fish tank without the tank

That would allow single target or aoe to work without disrupting players, gameplay or time

On 2023-07-30 at 6:47 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Hydroid can leave it for

i realise this would assist the "controller" aspect

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-07-30 at 5:10 AM, OKmartIsOkay said:

Remove the charge mechanic entirely as it slows gameplay

Note that not only is Hydroid's first ability is a charge, understandable water cannons and water pressure

But tentacle swarm which is just opening an undertow but summoning a kraken for some reason has a charge too

Also note that Caliban's sentient wrath is better without a charge in every way except small walls

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-08-01 at 12:31 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

i realise this would assist the "controller" aspect

Hydroid with a solid tried test feels like a tank caster and can lean one way the other or both, a half Lavos with crowd disorientation and a lacking of tank

 

This thread answers those so the stance stands. Hydroid still requires oomph for what he is supposed to be

[FishMcCool]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Hydroid still requires oomph for what he is supposed to be

Absolutely not. Didn't you read the linked thread above and watch the video? He can kill SP mobs in only 36s! If you ask me, he probably could use a nerf.

Edited August 3, 2023 by FishMcCool

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

18 hours ago, FishMcCool said:

36s

36 seconds doing an exterminate? Per room? Per mission?

On 2023-07-30 at 6:47 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Instead of undertow keeping Hydroid in it how about give hydroid a reason to get out of it

A controller should be readily available for defence, mobile defence, disruption, hijack, interception

A tank caster can compete on exterminate, survival, assassination, archon's, zarimon

Hydroid can stop enemies but other frames even Lavos control better faster and more effective aka take your time Hydroid everyone else will finish the mission for you

This is like the companion rework thread where one half wants a invincible companion, the other half want an accessory and no one want's the rework to fix issues companions have properly

Im not requesting or suggesting a 3000% buff, this is just a mag pull Quality of life, less of a pain for fun to have

Also holding the ability button to charge, that is why casting speed exists, so i the player don't have to break my hands to play this one specific frame in your "overpowered" mindset (mag's crush, magnetize control too without charging)

If you don't care about Hydroid why convince others not to

[FishMcCool]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

36 seconds doing an exterminate? Per room? Per mission?

According to the author: "At 177% strength, 40 enemies 140 lvl, on the Steel Path, died in the same 36 seconds.". You should find it easily, it's in the section called "Very strong damage".

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

I read the page but you didn't bother to read the fineprint

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Hydroid can stop enemies but other frames even Lavos control better faster and more effective aka take your time Hydroid everyone else will finish the mission for you

My stance will not change because you have not given a good solid reason why Hydroid should be used over another frame

Your only arguement is that his most damaging ability is slower than a gun, melee, other helminth abilities, Let alone choosing any other warframe

A Hydroid spector does Hydroid better because i don't have to play him myself

[Marvelous_A]

It's an automatic yes from me for ANY Hydroid rework because literally any idea is a better idea than the current Hydroid

[FishMcCool]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

I read the page but you didn't bother to read the fineprint

My stance will not change because you have not given a good solid reason why Hydroid should be used over another frame

Your only arguement is that his most damaging ability is slower than a gun, melee, other helminth abilities, Let alone choosing any other warframe

A Hydroid spector does Hydroid better because i don't have to play him myself

Mate, I'm joking. I just find it hilarious that 36 seconds to kill a SP mob is used in that other thread as an argument in favour of the current state of Hydroid. Captain Barnacle needs a lot of help, I absolutely agree. He's been left shockingly behind considering the current state of the game with SP/Overguard becoming kind of the norm. Even just a numbers pass would do him a world of good though it wouldn't solve some of his other issues (such as dangling mobs on tentacles being an absolute pain to finish, and no Khora-style whip to fast track the kills).

[PsychicKitty]

On 2023-07-29 at 12:10 PM, OKmartIsOkay said:

The captain of the seas has been in the depths for far too long. The goal of this proposed rework is to hopefully bring hydroid back up and out of the dark depths of the current meta, back to sailing the high tides, and crashing through the hordes of enemies with the rage of the seas behind his strength. Additional goals are to increase his kit's mobility to bring him up to date with current gameplay, and allow for synergies between certain Helminth abilities, but to also make the abilities a hard choice for what to remove. 

 

Proposed Reworked Ability and Augment:

Remove the charge mechanic entirely as it slows gameplay, but keep the effects of the previous abilities full charge. Maybe adjust energy costs and reduce range. Increase the stagger to allow for ground finishers with increased duration for enemies on the ground during the barrage.

As for the Augment:

Polluted Barrage: Each projectile procs three* single* stacks of a random status, except for heat, gas, radiation, and blast because Hydroid is wet and heat and its subsidiary procs don't make sense.

*counts affected by strength potentially, could be more or less. 

 

Tidal Surge and Undertow:

I think these abilities need to be combined in order to add in a new ability to his 2 or 3. My idea for the combo ability is to increase the mobility of undertow and increase its damage potential with synergy to proc weapons and the 1's new augment. 

Being in Undertow will have status clearing for self and allies on cast. Buff the general movement speed. We're already stuck to the ground, and being slow is boring. As for the invincibility, change it to invisibility and potentially have Hydroid still be on the surface to grab enemies.

Tidal Surge will be triggered by bullet jumping in Undertow, costing 5 energy to pull enemies grouped into the Tow. 

Enemies within Undertow take 3% of their health taken per second so that it takes 

30 seconds at base to drown them. Most of the time it's better to kill enemies with a weapon anyways, but with viral and a strength effect this has potential to be a strong ability late game. 

 

My ideas for a new ability that I think should be a buff of sorts.

• Torrential Rage: a buff that increases damage by five percent per status applied, scales with strength and duration, while range affects how far allies have to be to get the buff. 

• The Currents Tear: a buff to increase slash proc damage and increase gore chance where water bursts from slain enemies.

• Rouge of the Depths: A wave of slashing torrent that pushes enemies back and applies slash. 

My Idea for Hydroids 4th ability is to change the tentacles from a swarm that locks down an area to an area of effect around the player in order to increase the kit’s mobility, as well as add a defense strip. Make the ability duration based, but act like gloom in the sense that it follows you. Instead of tentacles grabbing enemies and flailing them around, have the kraken follow Hydroid and grab enemies and crush defenses while holding them for a short time to make them vulnerable to headshots. This I believe would help Hydroid to be a lot more current with the pace of the game, and hopefully bring him up to the surface of the usage charts for the game.

Keep the extra loot augment. Extra loot is extra good. Maybe make the armor strip an augment and add the loot chance to the ability innately since he's a pirate. 

 

I am not a fan of that combined idea that would make hydroid really lame in my opinion.  I mean oh wow you can jump through some enemies for damage by spending lots of energy, never mind a shot gun can do that easier or say doing a jump kick or slide with a melee attack.....>_>

So changing undertow to make it a sub par power is not a good idea in my opinion.  I like it how it is.  Puddle form you can pull things into.  You can jump in the air and slam down into a puddle getting a bunch of grouped up enemies. 

Right now the only two powers i personally like to use a lot with hydroid are the undertow and tentacle swarm.

The undertow can make you invulnerable while its going and you can grab enemies and pull them in to drown them.  Plus enemies fall into you.  If you use tentacle swarm while in undertow form you can make the tentacles come out its top and then turn undertow off making everything that was inside you get ejected and hit by the tentacles.  Free you to pick up stuff and help kill the things not getting dead fast.  With undertow you can ignore many things that happen...if you turned invisible only...seriously hydroid would be useless and you would die way too much. 

I would like to be able to have other players maybe be able to shoot at the puddle and help kill them though. That would be cool.  Imagine ember or vaubin as examples sending their stuff from the sky into the puddle and making a nice explosion  =^_^=

The tentacle swarm i like the charge ability as you can charge it up to hit all over the place or not charge it to make its area of effect small and around you.  Making it an area of effect would not make them very effective at all.  Plus there is no way that DE would make them an aura effect that had a high range.  Yes its noticeable that DE did not like embers Area of Effect power(it was too powerful) and they changed it into a click power that sends rocks which i do not like as much.

Tempest Barrage i always hated, i tried to use it, found it consumed energy and really was not a good option for me good for my decoys but not for my actual use, it was as good as ashes shuriken or volts single target electric hit, supposedly great from added effects, but from trying i find it consumed tons of energy and wasted my time.  It needs to do something more, just not sure what...maybe it could be changed to area of effect with a bit of duration like longer then 20 seconds with a cold slowing effect aimed at the target that also makes it take more damage with little bits of damage going on the enemies so you know its going. 

Tidal surge was another one i just could not enjoy.  Its a dash.....and weak dash too.....you know you can bullet jump or slide or do a kick or even a jump smash and do ten times more damage.  In fact jump smash with a possible tentacle makes it a 100 times better option then wasting energy with tidal surge.  Not sure what to do to improve that, though i think it should have more synergy with it.  Like make its area slightly bigger, and have a mod that lets you remove status effects from your friends and maybe put a heal over time on them if you pass through them, and/or maybe adding synergies to other warframe powers, where things you pass through set them up to be ignited like the hydroid is living oil...not sure though.

And i just do not think that just increasing the damage on powers with a mod is a good idea, the amount of increase wont be that good, if anything their should be more elemental changes with mods to allow the player to maybe use the arbiter mods that give you things for using ice and fire and toxin as an example. Or maybe to give the player options to cause differing damage types when facing targets that have a vulnerability.  Though i think all warframes should have mods like that.  With some visual flare.   

Call me crazy but seeing a Hydroid put out tentacles that are burning or ones that look like they are made of electricity would be way cool.

Whatever changes that are made, will determine if i will continue playing it.  Ember no longer feels very fiery to me after it got changed so i do not play ember anymore.  So if this one no longer has that puddle or tentacles like it has i probably wont play it.

Not sure why hydroid needs to be reworked though when you have Trinity and Oberon and bunch of others that people just do not play that need reworks way more.

 

 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, PsychicKitty dijo:

I am not a fan of that combined idea that would make hydroid really lame in my opinion.  I mean oh wow you can jump through some enemies for damage by spending lots of energy, never mind a shot gun can do that easier or say doing a jump kick or slide with a melee attack.....>_>

So changing undertow to make it a sub par power is not a good idea in my opinion.  I like it how it is.  Puddle form you can pull things into.  You can jump in the air and slam down into a puddle getting a bunch of grouped up enemies. 

Right now the only two powers i personally like to use a lot with hydroid are the undertow and tentacle swarm.

The undertow can make you invulnerable while its going and you can grab enemies and pull them in to drown them.  Plus enemies fall into you.  If you use tentacle swarm while in undertow form you can make the tentacles come out its top and then turn undertow off making everything that was inside you get ejected and hit by the tentacles.  Free you to pick up stuff and help kill the things not getting dead fast.  With undertow you can ignore many things that happen...if you turned invisible only...seriously hydroid would be useless and you would die way too much. 

I would like to be able to have other players maybe be able to shoot at the puddle and help kill them though. That would be cool.  Imagine ember or vaubin as examples sending their stuff from the sky into the puddle and making a nice explosion  =^_^=

The tentacle swarm i like the charge ability as you can charge it up to hit all over the place or not charge it to make its area of effect small and around you.  Making it an area of effect would not make them very effective at all.  Plus there is no way that DE would make them an aura effect that had a high range.  Yes its noticeable that DE did not like embers Area of Effect power(it was too powerful) and they changed it into a click power that sends rocks which i do not like as much.

Tempest Barrage i always hated, i tried to use it, found it consumed energy and really was not a good option for me good for my decoys but not for my actual use, it was as good as ashes shuriken or volts single target electric hit, supposedly great from added effects, but from trying i find it consumed tons of energy and wasted my time.  It needs to do something more, just not sure what...maybe it could be changed to area of effect with a bit of duration like longer then 20 seconds with a cold slowing effect aimed at the target that also makes it take more damage with little bits of damage going on the enemies so you know its going. 

Tidal surge was another one i just could not enjoy.  Its a dash.....and weak dash too.....you know you can bullet jump or slide or do a kick or even a jump smash and do ten times more damage.  In fact jump smash with a possible tentacle makes it a 100 times better option then wasting energy with tidal surge.  Not sure what to do to improve that, though i think it should have more synergy with it.  Like make its area slightly bigger, and have a mod that lets you remove status effects from your friends and maybe put a heal over time on them if you pass through them, and/or maybe adding synergies to other warframe powers, where things you pass through set them up to be ignited like the hydroid is living oil...not sure though.

And i just do not think that just increasing the damage on powers with a mod is a good idea, the amount of increase wont be that good, if anything their should be more elemental changes with mods to allow the player to maybe use the arbiter mods that give you things for using ice and fire and toxin as an example. Or maybe to give the player options to cause differing damage types when facing targets that have a vulnerability.  Though i think all warframes should have mods like that.  With some visual flare.   

Call me crazy but seeing a Hydroid put out tentacles that are burning or ones that look like they are made of electricity would be way cool.

Whatever changes that are made, will determine if i will continue playing it.  Ember no longer feels very fiery to me after it got changed so i do not play ember anymore.  So if this one no longer has that puddle or tentacles like it has i probably wont play it.

Not sure why hydroid needs to be reworked though when you have Trinity and Oberon and bunch of others that people just do not play that need reworks way more.

 

 

very rarely I have seen trinity and I see several oberon especially in arbitration, but I have not seen a single hydroid, and I understand why, I really like its design and its abilities are flashy but they are horrible in practice: loading time, the puddle that has drainage for anything you do, tentacles that make it hard to shoot enemies and tempest barrage that scatters them, tidal surge that does nothing for 50 energy.