Echoes of Duviri: Hotfix 33.6.4

[Neoronial]

Lex Prime Incarnon reload perk is still not working

引用

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1362262-lex-prime-incarnon-reload-perk-is-still-not-working/

 

 

[QuesoKnight]

"Fixed melee weapons with projectiles launched from heavy attacks (Glaives, Gunblades, Edun, Argo & Vel, etc.) causing Kullervo’s Wrathful Advance to potentially miss its target. "

Maybe so, but did you know that wrathful advance now misses 100% of the time on melee weapons with 2.5 range?

[Tiltskillet]

52 minutes ago, QuesoKnight said:

"Fixed melee weapons with projectiles launched from heavy attacks (Glaives, Gunblades, Edun, Argo & Vel, etc.) causing Kullervo’s Wrathful Advance to potentially miss its target. "

Maybe so, but did you know that wrathful advance now misses 100% of the time on melee weapons with 2.5 range?

That's not happening to me.  Wrathful does have trouble  connecting if the target is on a slope, although even that isn't 100% of the time for me.  Some weapons have Heavies that are harder to connect with in general,  but with Wrathful this is more often a problem with the follow up Heavy.

I use the ability a lot, but I went to the Sim and tested a few weapons with exactly 2.5 range: Destreza Prime, Nikana Prime, Pangolin Prime, and Slaytra, and only had an occasional issue.  Mostly when the target was on a ramp, a few times from some carelessness on my part.

It'd probably be good to specify more about which weapons you're using and anything else about the situations where you're missing most of the time.  For instance, are you using Wrathful with inverted tap/hold?

[iPathos]

4 hours ago, quxier said:

Yes, but there are less rewards to use Final stand, hence less usage.

ps. you can use multiple quotes

Congratulations, tell that to the mobile interface that detests quotes.

Final Stand forces slash in an AoE, much like one of the best melee weapons in the game. I'll take what that's offereing, thank you.

Also it's 15k base, affected by ability strength. You're not running a straight 100% strength on him.

Edited August 17, 2023 by iPathos

[SngLol]

14 hours ago, Doomelf said:

 

Final Stand limits his movement a lot, but can increase it with sprint speed bonuses such as those from Amalgam Serration and Praedos. Will be getting overguard from Intrepid Stand constantly so won't need Primed Sure Footed and can go with Rush for even more sprint speed. It's quite noticeable so won't be a sitting duck anymore. This also helps with survivability as the additional freedom while moving makes Styanax even harder to hit and enemies don't have good accuracy to begin with.

The most important factor to keeping Styanax alive and preserving his overguard is killing enemies fast. On a min-maxed Final Stand build will be using Holster Amp, Arcane Arachne and Vigorous Swap which affect the ability's base damage and are multiplicative to ability strength. At base steel path enemies will be dying instantly so Bleed procs won't even have time to shine.

For even more survivability have the option to use the uncharged shot of Epitaph before casting Final Stand for additional CC with forced Cold procs and Blast ones which reduce enemy accuracy even more. Since will be used as a primer, the Viral procs will contribute for even more damage as well. At base steel path is unnecessary, though helps against eximus and acolytes.

There are players who have reached and maintained over a million overguard in steel path before the Intrepid Stand change. How do you think that was possible if Styanax had issues preserving his overguard? And here we have people complaining they can't maintain the amount Intrepid Stand can reach after the change.

With overguard having a 0.5s invulnerability period when broken and another from the shield gate the only way Styanax can die is if the one playing him has skill or build issues. Even if are playing at high levels such as in the thousands where overguard will be breaking frequently still won't have survivability issues if are using Vazarin with its amazing Protective Sling and Guiardian Break nodes.

 

Not all of us are hardcore min-maxing skill players, I don't have the skill required to constantly keep track of and manage shield gating and vazarin buffs. I spend my time making good enough builds to make up for my lack in skill. This is not a PvP game anyways so if some hardcore players manages to reach millions, so what? Why should I suffer the consequences of the nerf? All it does is making me not play this Warframe anymore, just as it was before Overguard existed.
It feels like everyone forgets the fact that to even make these build has cost lots and lots of farming and work. Shouldn't that work pay off? This nerfing just removes the reward for all this work to even make the builds in the first place.

Edited August 17, 2023 by SngLol

[quxier]

8 hours ago, iPathos said:

12 hours ago, quxier said:

Yes, but there are less rewards to use Final stand, hence less usage.

ps. you can use multiple quotes

Congratulations, tell that to the mobile interface that detests quotes.

Oh, that's good to knows why some people post whole comment although 1 line may suffice.

8 hours ago, iPathos said:

Final Stand forces slash in an AoE, much like one of the best melee weapons in the game. I'll take what that's offereing, thank you.

We have Aquablades (Yareli, infusable into other frames) that deals Slash damage/status as well.

Final stand deals 1 500 on hit, 12 hit per second, 30 hits. Can it hit single target few times?

As for Aquablades, it's 3-4 hits per seconds, each hit deals 750, so it's 2250-3000 per second

 

You can say Final stand deals more damage/status. Ok. But Aquablades (except range) won't ban usage of your weapon or other abilities. I've used Roar (1/2 for infusion, with lots of strength, probably 200+), Aquablades on Yareli and Kuva nukor. That's just one style from MANY. Final stand offers only few but Aquablades offers myriad.

 

ps. you may like it, that's fine, I like (a little) Voruna's 4th and probably few other abilities but keep in mind that's very limiting ability that some players will avoid (at least without augment).

 

8 hours ago, iPathos said:

Also it's 15k base, affected by ability strength. You're not running a straight 100% strength on him.

Oh, cap is affected by Strength, nice. To be honest, I've run some base SP with some invigoration STrength. I had 35k, afair. Enemies cannot even destroy 1/2 of it. So it's fine... to bad it's augment not base version.

[Ifeanyi]

The aim-gliding animation when using a pistol and a glaive has been broken for a while
Please look into it, thanks.

[Haleks]

I posted a reminder about the head-tracking bug yesterday, and found out it was deleted - as usual without any kind of explanation.

I am soooo sick of this bullcrap... Moderators here are behaving like toddlers.

[iPathos]

3 hours ago, quxier said:

Oh, that's good to knows why some people post whole comment although 1 line may suffice.

We have Aquablades (Yareli, infusable into other frames) that deals Slash damage/status as well.

Final stand deals 1 500 on hit, 12 hit per second, 30 hits. Can it hit single target few times?

As for Aquablades, it's 3-4 hits per seconds, each hit deals 750, so it's 2250-3000 per second

 

You can say Final stand deals more damage/status. Ok. But Aquablades (except range) won't ban usage of your weapon or other abilities. I've used Roar (1/2 for infusion, with lots of strength, probably 200+), Aquablades on Yareli and Kuva nukor. That's just one style from MANY. Final stand offers only few but Aquablades offers myriad.

 

ps. you may like it, that's fine, I like (a little) Voruna's 4th and probably few other abilities but keep in mind that's very limiting ability that some players will avoid (at least without augment).

 

Oh, cap is affected by Strength, nice. To be honest, I've run some base SP with some invigoration STrength. I had 35k, afair. Enemies cannot even destroy 1/2 of it. So it's fine... to bad it's augment not base version.

Aquablades isn't affected by weapon damage boosts such as Arcane Arachne, Vigorous Swap and the like (as far as I'm aware), while Final Stand is. I've used Aquablades on several builds and I can confidently say I'd prefer Final Stand, even without the augment. The second the augment is brought into the equation, it's not even a competition.

Final Stand also deals 1500 slash per direct hit and 1500 blast per explosion. The explosion includes a guaranteed slash proc. You are considered Airborne while casting Final Stand, allowing the use of mods like the Aerodynamic aura or Aviator. 

While Aquablades costs 75% of the energy, it deals 750 damage per direct hit - a considerable loss compared to either 1500 from aln AoE or 1500+1500 for a direct hit. Enemies hit by three consecutive Aquablades become immune to them for a short duration, not something they suffer under Final Stand. The primary advantage that Aquablades has over Final Stand is twofold:

• Mobility (Aquablades allows more free movement)
• AoE detection (Final Stand uses sight detection, Aquablades does not)

You can use what you like, but if you're going to compare the abilities - the least you can do is have your information straight.

27 minutes ago, Haleks said:

I posted a reminder about the head-tracking bug yesterday, and found out it was deleted - as usual without any kind of explanation.

I am soooo sick of this bullcrap... Moderators here are behaving like toddlers.

It helps when you actually say something within the post instead of simply pasting three forum links to be embedded. Elaborate at least slightly and you'll find it's usually better received.

[Hexerin]

4 hours ago, iPathos said:

It helps when you actually say something within the post instead of simply pasting three forum links to be embedded. Elaborate at least slightly and you'll find it's usually better received.

Posting links to three other entire threads discussing the issue is all that's needed for anyone with basic comprehension skills to understand what's being said.

Other poster is in the right here. If such a post was indeed deleted, then the moderators were having a momentary lapse of competency at best, or are being actively malicious at worse.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Hexerin

[Doomelf]

Btw, thanks for the update.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Doomelf

[quxier]

7 hours ago, iPathos said:

Aquablades isn't affected by weapon damage boosts such as Arcane Arachne, Vigorous Swap and the like (as far as I'm aware), while Final Stand is.

But weapons/frame IS affected by it.

7 hours ago, iPathos said:

While Aquablades costs 75% of the energy, it deals 750 damage per direct hit - a considerable loss compared to either 1500 from aln AoE or 1500+1500 for a direct hit. Enemies hit by three consecutive Aquablades become immune to them for a short duration, not something they suffer under Final Stand.

You are missing few things.

Yes, 1 hit of Aquablades deal 750 damage but within 0.5 second frame can hit enemies even 3 times multiple enemies. If you group enemies it will probably (unless there is some bug) hit all enemies. Final stand will only hit max 30 enemies with slash and more with 1.5k Blast.

So during 2.5 second (Final stand time) Aquablade can deal per enemy:

- 1 hit (just touching enemy and run) -> 750 damage

- 1 hit per 0.5 second (interval time) => 5 hit -> 3750 Slash damage

- 2 hits per 0.5s => 10 hits -> 7500 Slash damage

- 3 hits per 1 second (per 0.5, but from 0.500001 - to 1.0 it won't deal damage) so 9 hits total -> 6750

On other hand Final stand:

- Assuming that enemies are in range of Blast explosion: 30x 1500 = 45 damage. So every enemy hit can take 1.5k to 45k additional damage.

- 1 enemy can take 1.5k to 45k Slash damage.

 

So, per 1 enemy effected:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand can deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast    to     45k Slash + 45k Blast damage

So Final stand hitting at least 2-3 times will deal more damage than Aquablades could (minimal damage). Max is MANY times more

 

Per 10 enemies, assuming that every enemy is hit equally, 1 enemy will take N damage:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast    to 10k Slash + 45k Blast.

 

Per 15 enemies:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast   to 3k Slash + 45k Blash

 

Per 30 enemies:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast

 

So during that 2.5 second (base) Final stand will outdamage Aquablades. You could say that energy is similar (which I would agree) however Aquablades has more duration. It's 2.5 seconds VS 45. That's 18 times more duration. Aquablades in that time can affected much more enemies. Say, 5 enemies per 2.5 second. That's 90 enemies during Aquablades duration. 10 enemies - 180 enemies. Compare it to max 30 enemies of Final stand. So Aquablades being weaker in short time, it will hit more consistent with similar energy.

 

8 hours ago, iPathos said:

the primary advantage that Aquablades has over Final Stand is twofold:

• Mobility (Aquablades allows more free movement)
• AoE detection (Final Stand uses sight detection, Aquablades does not)

It's more. Aquablades:

- can use weapons (trigger status, like viral)

- can use another abilities (e.g. armor strip)

- can use avoid more damage (Rolling guard, running from scene, taking cover etc) - with Final stand augment it becomes less of issue

One "disadvantage" of Aquablade is range. It's 5m not affected by Range.

 

[Stafelund]

Did you disable deploying spectres in archon hunts?

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

Did you disable deploying spectres in archon hunts?

They've never been deployable in Archon Hunts.

[Stafelund]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

They've never been deployable in Archon Hunts.

Seems like this was recent. I remember being able to deploy Clem as well as some eximii specters, definitely not the case for on-call crews though. The reason I'm wondering if this change was recent as well as if it's a bug because you can see the spectres in your gear wheel and they're not grayed out, but selecting them does nothing.

[Tiltskillet]

7 hours ago, Stafelund said:

Seems like this was recent. I remember being able to deploy Clem as well as some eximii specters, definitely not the case for on-call crews though. The reason I'm wondering if this change was recent as well as if it's a bug because you can see the spectres in your gear wheel and they're not grayed out, but selecting them does nothing.

If you look at the Archon Hunt in Navigation, it has a symbol crossed out, next to which it says "Consumables".  If you hover over that, among other things, it explains "No summons.  Summons are disabled for the entire duration of the mission."

This goes  back to their introduction. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1321162-veilbreaker-update-32

Quote

Restrictions are also present for added impact:

• Restricted Respawns:
  • No Self Revive: Can only be revived by other Tenno (or Companions).
  • Last Gasp Penalty: Activating the Last Gasp Focus ability reduces the timer by 2 seconds.
  • Bleedout Shortens: Bleedout duration is reduced after each time bleedout is entered, to a minimum of 5 seconds. 
• Restricted Consumables 
  • No Summons: Summons are disabled for the entire duration of the mission. This includes Specters, Necracmech, etc.
  • Cooldown Increase: Each type of Restore has a 3 minute cooldown timer applied. This cooldown affects all sizes of the restore type.

 

[iPathos]

21 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Posting links to three other entire threads discussing the issue is all that's needed for anyone with basic comprehension skills to understand what's being said.

Other poster is in the right here. If such a post was indeed deleted, then the moderators were having a momentary lapse of competency at best, or are being actively malicious at worse.

And yet the message including them was deleted? I'm stating the situation as it is, not as I perceive it should be. It's patently obvious that the lack of context was the reason for the message's removal.

 

 

17 hours ago, quxier said:

But weapons/frame IS affected by it.

You are missing few things.

Yes, 1 hit of Aquablades deal 750 damage but within 0.5 second frame can hit enemies even 3 times multiple enemies. If you group enemies it will probably (unless there is some bug) hit all enemies. Final stand will only hit max 30 enemies with slash and more with 1.5k Blast.

So during 2.5 second (Final stand time) Aquablade can deal per enemy:

- 1 hit (just touching enemy and run) -> 750 damage

- 1 hit per 0.5 second (interval time) => 5 hit -> 3750 Slash damage

- 2 hits per 0.5s => 10 hits -> 7500 Slash damage

- 3 hits per 1 second (per 0.5, but from 0.500001 - to 1.0 it won't deal damage) so 9 hits total -> 6750

On other hand Final stand:

- Assuming that enemies are in range of Blast explosion: 30x 1500 = 45 damage. So every enemy hit can take 1.5k to 45k additional damage.

- 1 enemy can take 1.5k to 45k Slash damage.

 

So, per 1 enemy effected:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand can deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast    to     45k Slash + 45k Blast damage

So Final stand hitting at least 2-3 times will deal more damage than Aquablades could (minimal damage). Max is MANY times more

 

Per 10 enemies, assuming that every enemy is hit equally, 1 enemy will take N damage:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast    to 10k Slash + 45k Blast.

 

Per 15 enemies:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast   to 3k Slash + 45k Blash

 

Per 30 enemies:

Aquablades can deal 750 to 7500 Slasth damage.

Final stand will deal 1.5k Slash + 1.5k Blast

 

So during that 2.5 second (base) Final stand will outdamage Aquablades. You could say that energy is similar (which I would agree) however Aquablades has more duration. It's 2.5 seconds VS 45. That's 18 times more duration. Aquablades in that time can affected much more enemies. Say, 5 enemies per 2.5 second. That's 90 enemies during Aquablades duration. 10 enemies - 180 enemies. Compare it to max 30 enemies of Final stand. So Aquablades being weaker in short time, it will hit more consistent with similar energy.

 

It's more. Aquablades:

- can use weapons (trigger status, like viral)

- can use another abilities (e.g. armor strip)

- can use avoid more damage (Rolling guard, running from scene, taking cover etc) - with Final stand augment it becomes less of issue

One "disadvantage" of Aquablade is range. It's 5m not affected by Range.

 

I will consider responding to this in full later on, when I'm not making a cursory pass over the thread on my break.

Aquablades have both a set range limit and a built-in mechanic that makes enemies temporarily immune to further hits, eating into potential damage output. It also requires you to be in considerably closer proximity to enemies to even hit them compared to Final Stand, which just needs near-LoS to hit or aim near the intended targets.

Also, Final Stand only has a limit on directly hitting enemies. The AoE portion of the ability (which is also the portion that deals the guaranteed slash proc) can hit as many enemies as are in range and within line of sight of the impact location. The upper limit on enemies you can hit with 30 spears is not 30 - this just tells me that you don't fully understand how the ability works and are basing your position on said misunderstanding.

Also, I never said that weapons and frames are not affected by weapon damage buffs. HOWEVER, Aquablades is not and that's a very important distinction that you also appear to have missed.

Edited August 18, 2023 by iPathos
Addition regarding first point

[iPathos]

12 hours ago, Stafelund said:

Seems like this was recent. I remember being able to deploy Clem as well as some eximii specters, definitely not the case for on-call crews though. The reason I'm wondering if this change was recent as well as if it's a bug because you can see the spectres in your gear wheel and they're not grayed out, but selecting them does nothing.

Clem is considered an exception due to being tied to your landing craft - for some reason.

He is not in the same category as other specters.

Yes, I am aware that landing craft support charges are a consumable. I don't make the rules.

[quxier]

11 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Aquablades have both a set range limit and a built-in mechanic that makes enemies temporarily immune to further hits, eating into potential damage output.

Yes, but as I mentioned you can still get at least 3 hits per enemy, per second. That's 2250 Slash. And if you hit only twice, you can do 4 hits per second (3k Slash).

13 minutes ago, iPathos said:

It also requires you to be in considerably closer proximity to enemies to even hit them compared to Final Stand, which just needs near-LoS to hit or aim near the intended targets.

Just roll or do any other fast maneuver. It's not like you have to walk like with Final stand.

15 minutes ago, iPathos said:

Also, Final Stand only has a limit on directly hitting enemies. The AoE portion of the ability (which is also the portion that deals the guaranteed slash proc) can hit as many enemies as are in range and within line of sight of the impact location. The upper limit on enemies you can hit with 30 spears is not 30 - this just tells me that you don't fully understand how the ability works and are basing your position on said misunderstanding.

Ah, right, I've misunderstood. I thought Slash damage deals status proc. Does the Slash damage have status change?

[iPathos]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Yes, but as I mentioned you can still get at least 3 hits per enemy, per second. That's 2250 Slash. And if you hit only twice, you can do 4 hits per second (3k Slash).

You can hit enemies with three separate blades, which is the same as hitting them with three separate spears. I am not seeing why this point holds any further merit?

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Just roll or do any other fast maneuver. It's not like you have to walk like with Final stand.

Final Stand causes you to be considered Airborne for the duration, thus you are able to use options such as Aerodynamic and Aviator to reduce any damage while in that state. Also, you are able to increase your movement speed while casting Final Stand by augmenting your Sprint Speed - for which we have many, many options.

That doesn't change the fact that you still need to get into very close proximity with enemies before being able to even damage them with Aquablades - opening up a huge window for them to be able to damage, CC or otherwise cause you harm. You also need to remain within close proximity for Aquablades to continue dealing damage to any affected enemies, vastly undermining any ability to simply "roll or do any fast maneuver" - as that will commonly take you out of range of the enemy(s) that are being targeted. Final Stand can be cast from considerable distances so long as you have a visual on the point at which you want to cause the impacts.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Ah, right, I've misunderstood. I thought Slash damage deals status proc. Does the Slash damage have status change?

The Blast component of Final Stand has a 100% chance to proc slash on any enemy hit - this is not affected by status chance or strength or any other modifiers. If they take damage from the AoE component, they get a slash proc. Even with minimum duration of 12-13%, you still throw four spears which all cause slash procs if something is hit by the AoE.

To my knowledge, the direct hit by the spears does not proc slash, just deals slash damage. I could be incorrect on this but even with testing it is a difficult property to be sure of when the other component is both AoE and also procs slash if it hits.

[PhantomDrifter]

Any fix on Excal Umbra ability reset after tranference?

[The_Android]

The "extra reward pool" for the Steel Path Circuit is still very very broken.  Just finished the first reward which showed a Secondary Outburst arcane as the reward.  When I returned to the circuit to collect my reward I got an Arcane Intention instead (which shows as the fifth reward in the pool).  When I cycle the reward pool up to the 10th and 11th rewards it still shows the rewards(I'm guessing) from the Normal difficulty Circuit.  Yes, after fighting through 9 levels of rewards it is showing a reward of 1000 endo (WOW!) and if you continue to get to the 11th reward. 50,000 credits.  I believe I'm getting twice that in my daily sign in award.  The rewards from the normal difficulty being duplicated into the Steel Path Circuit makes me think "buffer overflow...."

This is SO broken.  Please fix.

[Haleks]

10 hours ago, iPathos said:

And yet the message including them was deleted? I'm stating the situation as it is, not as I perceive it should be. It's patently obvious that the lack of context was the reason for the message's removal.

Sorry, but no, it's not.
Seriously, what context are you talking about ? That issue has been reported in details months ago, in several threads, by several users. Reminding DE that the bug still exists should be enough, presuming that they've read said reports previously. Nor DE nor you can expect me or anyone else to submit a new, full bug report on a regular basis just to get it on their radar : that is ridiculous, and shows how deficient QA & bug tracking are currently.

[iPathos]

2 hours ago, Haleks said:

Sorry, but no, it's not.
Seriously, what context are you talking about ? That issue has been reported in details months ago, in several threads, by several users. Reminding DE that the bug still exists should be enough, presuming that they've read said reports previously. Nor DE nor you can expect me or anyone else to submit a new, full bug report on a regular basis just to get it on their radar : that is ridiculous, and shows how deficient QA & bug tracking are currently.

I'm...not.

You're seriously reading too far into this.

If you're going to go out of your way to post links to bug threads to "remind" DE about bugs they are likely already aware of - you are entirely capable of including a concise message stating that you are indeed reminding them.

Think of it this way, if you took a product back to a store and just swiped through several online reviews without any further context, then proceeded to glare at them, waiting for them to do something. That's roughly equivalent to posting several thread links with zero context.

[iPathos]

2 hours ago, The_Android said:

The "extra reward pool" for the Steel Path Circuit is still very very broken.  Just finished the first reward which showed a Secondary Outburst arcane as the reward.  When I returned to the circuit to collect my reward I got an Arcane Intention instead (which shows as the fifth reward in the pool).  When I cycle the reward pool up to the 10th and 11th rewards it still shows the rewards(I'm guessing) from the Normal difficulty Circuit.  Yes, after fighting through 9 levels of rewards it is showing a reward of 1000 endo (WOW!) and if you continue to get to the 11th reward. 50,000 credits.  I believe I'm getting twice that in my daily sign in award.  The rewards from the normal difficulty being duplicated into the Steel Path Circuit makes me think "buffer overflow...."

This is SO broken.  Please fix.

The extra reward pool is a pool. You have a chance to get each of those items.

As per the drop tables:

They told us this when Duviri first released and it has not changed since, apart from the pool widening to include the newer arcanes.