PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[PollexMessier]

17 minutes ago, Lion said:

I mean, honestly I think a lot of the outrage is pretty overblown. 

 

The packs at this point in time are actually a great deal for the price point - offering similar value to a prime access pack for $40 less. 

 

There is an argument that it could've launched with a cheaper pack minus the regal Aya and platinum, and I think that's definitely something DE should've done at launch. However, we are past the launch at this point and to later add a cheaper pack would probably not sit well with the people who've already paid, as there is no option for a refund. 

 

I think the people that bought at $90 probably felt it was worth it at the time, but if a pack had been offered for say $50 instead many probably would've opted for that instead. I think DE at this point is choosing to appease the people who have already paid vs the people who haven't / aren't likely to pay. 

 

At the end of the day, I also think that FOMO is more the fault of the person than the business, DE didn't give you FOMO, you already had it. FOMO is literally a "fear of missing out" - this is an internal issue that you need to work on yourself. Marketing is designed by nature to try and get you to buy things you don't need. It's up to you to have the willpower not to buy everything you see and only buy things you feel are worth it. It's okay to not have everything, this is an unattainable goal. 

Ya really just said 90$ (20$ more than the cost of a full, much higher production value game) for two character models, a color pack, and some extra junk most of the people buying this will have no use for, is a good deal. And it's the fault of mentally unhealthy people that companies are taking advantage of them.

Comparing it to prime access is ridiculous cus anyone looking at those with half a brain will realize you're only paying for the prime accessories, platinum, and skiping the grind. IE: there are only 3 reasons to buy them. Whaling, You value your time more than the cost of the pack, Or just to support the game. Everyone else can earn the primes by playing the game and, if they want the exclusive stuff, pay a fraction of that for the accessories which are still quite bloated and overpriced. But at least have a guarantee to return at a later date in resurgence, nullifying a large amount of the FOMO.

Edited September 3, 2023 by PollexMessier

[Anmorata_Armitage]

Nice to the page number.  I won't be buying another pack or anything else from the game unless their is an additional pack without the bloat and a commitment to removing the FOMO.  We gotta start putting our foot down as a community or these predatory monetization tactics are going to dominate every facet of our lives.  Streaming... cars, even CPU's.  This S#&$ is getting everywhere... and it always tries to push the limit of what the consumer will tolerate... pushing and pushing till it wears us down.  In all honesty this is where Governments should step in and start regulating the market.

[(PSN)x7thmoon]

13 hours ago, Lion said:

I mean, honestly I think a lot of the outrage is pretty overblown. 

 

The packs at this point in time are actually a great deal for the price point - offering similar value to a prime access pack for $40 less. 

 

There is an argument that it could've launched with a cheaper pack minus the regal Aya and platinum, and I think that's definitely something DE should've done at launch. However, we are past the launch at this point and to later add a cheaper pack would probably not sit well with the people who've already paid, as there is no option for a refund. 

 

I think the people that bought at $90 probably felt it was worth it at the time, but if a pack had been offered for say $50 instead many probably would've opted for that instead. I think DE at this point is choosing to appease the people who have already paid vs the people who haven't / aren't likely to pay. 

 

At the end of the day, I also think that FOMO is more the fault of the person than the business, DE didn't give you FOMO, you already had it. FOMO is literally a "fear of missing out" - this is an internal issue that you need to work on yourself. Marketing is designed by nature to try and get you to buy things you don't need. It's up to you to have the willpower not to buy everything you see and only buy things you feel are worth it. It's okay to not have everything, this is an unattainable goal. 

uh oh white knight alert !!!!!

 

13 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Ya really just said 90$ (20$ more than the cost of a full, much higher production value game) for two character models, a color pack, and some extra junk most of the people buying this will have no use for, is a good deal. And it's the fault of mentally unhealthy people that companies are taking advantage of them.

Comparing it to prime access is ridiculous cus anyone looking at those with half a brain will realize you're only paying for the prime accessories, platinum, and skiping the grind. IE: there are only 3 reasons to buy them. Whaling, You value your time more than the cost of the pack, Or just to support the game. Everyone else can earn the primes by playing the game and, if they want the exclusive stuff, pay a fraction of that for the accessories which are still quite bloated and overpriced.

yes indeed

 

14 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

And didn't you guys say that this type of predatory transactions would never happen again after the regal aya debacle (and you blamed us for what happened)

Well it happened again guess this shows your fans that we can never trust you again becouse most likely every special pack after this one will be predatory and ridiculously inflated by platinum and aya to squeeze your loyal fans of all there money

(also WE DIDN'T ASK FOR MORE PLATINUM we asked for a 4th pack without inflated prices do to the addition of platinum and aya we only want the cosmetics and skins)

LoL they have never ben trusted at all. every veteran player knows de has a reputation of negligence, cant be trusted, telling lies and aside from said bad reputation . . . severe inconsistency and terrible management choices especially with game mechanics and sutch. remember when de said "OH lets add cursor to consol so its more like pc"  and the entire comunity said dont ... and then they did it eanyways AND it was added under developed / not tested at all ... literally entire game was unable to play because we couldn't use navigation, arsenal, mod bench, market, nothing at all .... practicaly over a month until it was slightly fixd

[(PSN)UmbralHalo]

Do you guys know that one How I Met Your Mother episode about the “glass shattering” moment? In a nutshell, the “glass shattering” moment is a specific moment in time where you realize a habit or quirk of a fellow human or object that you cannot un-see or hear for the rest of your life and in the episode it was always accompanied with a funny glass shattering noise. Like. Someone never notices their friend eating loudly, unless someone else points it out. Glass shatters. Gasp. Then they can't help but focus on it non-stop and it drives them crazy.

I believe the Heirloom Collection announcement was my glass shattering moment. 

I went into a group chat about the game and was super excited to talk about the 1999 thing and how it reminded me of Dark Sector. I was hella excited. But then came the topic with the Heirloom Collection and suddenly all my hype is gone. But I'm also glad that this community has so many people who point this out. I told them about my gambling problems and one of the people who bought the Heirloom pack admitted he felt ashamed shortly after. Hence why I'm also wondering if DE can introduce an option for people to hide the Heirloom thing on their profiles. Some people might in the future dislike having a sign in their profile that screams "Hey, look at me. I support predatory anti-consumer business practices".

I feel bad for those who can't hide it, when they want to.

 

Sorry for all my rambling. My brain is just blegh right now 

[Tahocess321]

hace 44 minutos, (PSN)x7thmoon dijo:

every veteran player knows de has a reputation of negligence

Not really, but that just makes your point that much more valid.

I started in 2017. At the time the community had a very possitive impression of DE and they were indeed very player-friendly, in touch with their community, trying to make the game as fair as possible...

 Fast forward 6 years and here you are (having started in 2021, apparently) saying that DE has a bad reputation amongst veterans, which just goes to show how much they have #*!%ed up and how much their image has deteriorated in recent years.

Its just sad

[Darkbring]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Humblemud said:

Do you guys know that one How I Met Your Mother episode about the “glass shattering” moment? In a nutshell, the “glass shattering” moment is a specific moment in time where you realize a habit or quirk of a fellow human or object that you cannot un-see or hear for the rest of your life and in the episode it was always accompanied with a funny glass shattering noise. Like. Someone never notices their friend eating loudly, unless someone else points it out. Glass shatters. Gasp. Then they can't help but focus on it non-stop and it drives them crazy.

I believe the Heirloom Collection announcement was my glass shattering moment. 

I went into a group chat about the game and was super excited to talk about the 1999 thing and how it reminded me of Dark Sector. I was hella excited. But then came the topic with the Heirloom Collection and suddenly all my hype is gone. But I'm also glad that this community has so many people who point this out. I told them about my gambling problems and one of the people who bought the Heirloom pack admitted he felt ashamed shortly after. Hence why I'm also wondering if DE can introduce an option for people to hide the Heirloom thing on their profiles. Some people might in the future dislike having a sign in their profile that screams "Hey, look at me. I support predatory anti-consumer business practices".

I feel bad for those who can't hide it, when they want to.

 

Sorry for all my rambling. My brain is just blegh right now 

Hide this exclusive, premium badge of honor? No, EVERYONE should know their heroes! I mean, they're just like the Founders, right? Nothing bad could ever come of it.

[Tahocess321]

hace 1 hora, Lion dijo:

I mean, honestly I think a lot of the outrage is pretty overblown. 

 

The packs at this point in time are actually a great deal for the price point - offering similar value to a prime access pack for $40 less. 

 

There is an argument that it could've launched with a cheaper pack minus the regal Aya and platinum, and I think that's definitely something DE should've done at launch. However, we are past the launch at this point and to later add a cheaper pack would probably not sit well with the people who've already paid, as there is no option for a refund. 

 

I think the people that bought at $90 probably felt it was worth it at the time, but if a pack had been offered for say $50 instead many probably would've opted for that instead. I think DE at this point is choosing to appease the people who have already paid vs the people who haven't / aren't likely to pay. 

 

At the end of the day, I also think that FOMO is more the fault of the person than the business, DE didn't give you FOMO, you already had it. FOMO is literally a "fear of missing out" - this is an internal issue that you need to work on yourself. Marketing is designed by nature to try and get you to buy things you don't need. It's up to you to have the willpower not to buy everything you see and only buy things you feel are worth it. It's okay to not have everything, this is an unattainable goal. 

1. No, the outrage is not overblown at all.

2. No, the packs are not a great deal. Lets consider the celestial pack before the further bloating with plat. 15 regal aya is 80 bucks. 80*6/15 = 32. The celestial bundle is 62$. 62-32 = 30. Literally over half of the cost of the bundle is artificially inflated with absolutely unnecesary premium currency. I don't care about regal aya, I don't care about plat, and if I only want the skins, having to pay over double the price for them just because the bundle includes premium currencies for bloat makes it actually a pretty terrible, predatory and disgusting deal.

3. The comparison with prime access is just stupid. Prime access is:

     a) absolutely optional. You don't want/can't pay it? well the most important part of it is available in game for free!

     b) "Universal" in that every cosmetic piece you get is avaliable for every frame you own

     c) makes sense to have it bundled. All the items that come with the prime access are related, and makes sense to sell them together in a single pack

  In contrast, the heirloom skins are purchase-only, warframe-specific (admitedly the signas are not), and on top of that if you only really like one of the frames you basically have to pay 62$ or more for a single #*!%ing skin. All of that for a 10-year celebration? Which by the way, I have probably spent the equivalent of several heirloom packs over the 6-7 years I've played warframe. Don't I deserve a 10 year supporter accolade? Have I not supported this game enough because I am not falling for their predatory FOMO tactics now?

[(XBOX)EazyT4RG3T]

Myself and a few of my clanmates were thinking about buying the Heirloom Packs even before the Platinum changes. Honestly the price/value of the packs didn't even register at the time. But before we made our purchases we started to see and hear people complaining about the packs. I originally came on hear to listen to people's concerns and to find out what all the hubbub was about. Since I've been hearing people's complaints I have to agree that the way DE has handled this is completely unacceptable. I don't want to miss out on these skins much like the rest of the community. They look incredible and the story behind them is really cool. Besides that I just started to play Frost more and have even been thinking of working on my Mag. So I am here stuck now in a serious moral dilemma of what to do. Do I allow myself to miss out due to a moral decision? Do I say to hell with my moral fiber and buy the packs anyway supporting what is cleary a super predatory and downright scummy sales tactic? The money and price isn't an issue for me, but I don't think I could live with myself knowing I had supported this. At the same time missing out really hurts especially when I know I didn't have to. All of this has left a really bad taste in my mouth and I haven't even logged on in days. I honestly don't even know if I ever want to go back at this point. All my hard work, hours of grinding and farming just seem like such a waste. If the company is going to start using these predatory tactics and doesn't even have the decency to give the community a real solution by removing the FOMO in one way or another, then I don't want to play this game anymore. On top of that, if the players anger is left unchecked it is more than likely the people who are using these skins will come under attack at some point. I've seen it happen in so many other games when something like this happens. I really hope DE will listen. The minimum DE could do to fix this is simply promise the community the skins will return sometime in the future, preferably along with a Platinum Only option. People with Plat have helped pay for the game too and they deserve to be included as well.

[Darkbring]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)EazyT4RG3T said:

Myself and a few of my clanmates were thinking about buying the Heirloom Packs even before the Platinum changes. Honestly the price/value of the packs didn't even register at the time. But before we made our purchases we started to see and hear people complaining about the packs. I originally came on hear to listen to people's concerns and to find out what all the hubbub was about. Since I've been hearing people's complaints I have to agree that the way DE has handled this is completely unacceptable. I don't want to miss out on these skins much like the rest of the community. They look incredible and the story behind them is really cool. Besides that I just started to play Frost more and have even been thinking of working on my Mag. So I am here stuck now in a serious moral dilemma of what to do. Do I allow myself to miss out due to a moral decision? Do I say to hell with my moral fiber and buy the packs anyway supporting what is cleary a super predatory and downright scummy sales tactic? The money and price isn't an issue for me, but I don't think I could live with myself knowing I had supported this. At the same time missing out really hurts especially when I know I didn't have to. All of this has left a really bad taste in my mouth and I haven't even logged on in days. I honestly don't even know if I ever want to go back at this point. All my hard work, hours of grinding and farming just seem like such a waste. If the company is going to start using these predatory tactics and doesn't even have the decency to give the community a real solution by removing the FOMO in one way or another, then I don't want to play this game anymore. On top of that, if the players anger is left unchecked it is more than likely the people who are using these skins will come under attack at some point. I've seen it happen in so many other games when something like this happens. I really hope DE will listen. The minimum DE could do to fix this is simply promise the community the skins will return sometime in the future, preferably along with a Platinum Only option. People with Plat have helped pay for the game too and they deserve to be included as well.

 

 

 

 

 

They can't just promise that the packs will return later for several reasons, but the main one is that people already bought these under the premise of exclusivity.
So, if they decide to get rid of the FOMO, they would first have to refund everyone who purchased the packs, then re-release the packs with no FOMO exclusivity. Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.
Same process is required for pretty much any other changes except for increasing the amount of what is already in the pack.  Because, again, that would open them to being sued for forcing onto the buyer something that they didn't pay for. Even increasing the amount of what is already in the pack is already legally questionable, because you're messing with the product post purchase. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Darkbring

[(PSN)UmbralHalo]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Tahocess321:

All of that for a 10-year celebration? Which by the way, I have probably spent the equivalent of several heirloom packs over the 6-7 years I've played warframe. Don't I deserve a 10 year supporter accolade? Have I not supported this game enough because I am not falling for their predatory FOMO tactics now?

That also left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. It feels like DE is saying that all the time and probably thousands of euros I have invested into this game are worthless. Only those now purchasing the scummy pack are the TRUE supporters.

What's a founder in comparison to the Heirloom Pack buyers? What's a player who's been around for about 7-8 years in comparison to that? :(

What are we to them if we don't buy the Heirloom pack? 

[(XBOX)EazyT4RG3T]

3 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

They can't just promise that the packs will return later for several reasons, but the main one is that people already bought these under the premise of exclusivity.
So, if they decide to get rid of the FOMO, they would first have to refund everyone who purchased the packs, then re-release them the packs with no FOMO exclusivity. Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.

In the legal world there is a lot more room for interpretation than most people realize. The Packs may be Limited-Time but that only pertains to the packs as a whole not their individual contents, unless otherwise stated. Also Limited-Time can equally be used to describe a reoccurring yearly event such as Naberus or TenoCon.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

13 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

They can't just promise that the packs will return later for several reasons, but the main one is that people already bought these under the premise of exclusivity.
So, if they decide to get rid of the FOMO, they would first have to refund everyone who purchased the packs, then re-release the packs with no FOMO exclusivity. Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.
Same process is required for pretty much any other changes except for increasing the amount of what is already in the pack.  Because, again, that would open them to being sued for forcing onto the buyer something that they didn't pay for. Even increasing the amount of what is already in the pack is already legally questionable, because you're messing with the product post purchase. 

The longer DE waits the worse its gonna get

Gatcha, Fomo and Rng lootboxes are like smoking, it Has to stop or it never will

[Darkbring]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)EazyT4RG3T said:

In the legal world there is a lot more room for interpretation than most people realize. The Packs may be Limited-Time but that only pertains to the packs as a whole not their individual contents, unless otherwise stated. Also Limited-Time can equally be used to describe a reoccurring yearly event such as Naberus or TenoCon.

 

DE spoke a bit too clearly on the matter to weasel their way out of this one. The language they used was pretty straightforward and to the point. And, white it may be possible to re-introduce the contents of the pack later on by saying that "the packs were exclusive, not the contents", it would still leave them open to being sued for deceptive marketing. This is not something you want in your legal history as a company.

[PollexMessier]

11 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

They can't just promise that the packs will return later for several reasons, but the main one is that people already bought these under the premise of exclusivity.
So, if they decide to get rid of the FOMO, they would first have to refund everyone who purchased the packs, then re-release the packs with no FOMO exclusivity. Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.

which is exactly why:
A: They should have NEVER released these as timed exclusive to begin with
And
B: They should've been more on top of this. Shut down the sales as soon as they noticed how much they screwed up to start working on real damage control.

Except they knew how bad it was before it was released, there was ALREADY negative feedback on it before it was announced at tennocon because of the leak and the devs certainly knew well before that. they knew cus they've gotten this backlash on their fomo garbage before multiple times. Hell I'll bet an employee at DE that was as disgusted by this as we were leaked it on purpose to try and prevent this. Yet they did it anyways, and they're hiding behind the excuse that the exclusivity is part of what players are buying it for to justify not putting in the legwork they need to to actually fix their screw up.

They deserve every bit of backlash and damage to their reputation they're getting for this. I'm willing to bet their stretch into the mobile market is mostly an attempt to keep their player numbers from plummeting as they inevitably continue to make more scumbag decisions like this. I hope it fails.

[Darkbring]

5 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

which is exactly why:
A: They should have NEVER released these as timed exclusive to begin with
And
B: They should've been more on top of this. Shut down the sales as soon as they noticed how much they screwed up to start working on real damage control.

Except they knew how bad it was before it was released, there was ALREADY negative feedback on it before it was announced at tennocon because of the leak and the devs certainly knew well before that. they knew cus they've gotten this backlash on their fomo garbage before multiple times. Hell I'll bet an employee at DE that was as disgusted by this as we were leaked it on purpose to try and prevent this. Yet they did it anyways, and they're hiding behind the excuse that the exclusivity is part of what players are buying it for to justify not putting in the legwork they need to to actually fix their screw up.

They deserve every bit of backlash and damage to their reputation they're getting for this. I'm willing to bet their stretch into the mobile market is mostly an attempt to keep their player numbers from plummeting as they inevitably continue to make more scumbag decisions like this. I hope it fails.

 

I mean, I completely agree, this shouldn't have been done in the first place. Just pointing out that fixing their #*!% up would require more than just removing the timer or promising these packs or their contents will return.

[Lionsheart89]

6 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

I mean, I completely agree, this shouldn't have been done in the first place. Just pointing out that fixing their #*!% up would require more than just removing the timer or promising these packs or their contents will return.

The ideal solution would be to add a pack (maybe 2?) that would give the skins, minus the aya and plat.  It wouldn't really be going back on anything. It would just be providing more options. Those that bought it already, congrats. You are now 600-2100 plat richer than the rest of us.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Lionsheart89

[(XBOX)EazyT4RG3T]

10 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

DE spoke a bit too clearly on the matter to weasel their way out of this one. The language they used was pretty straightforward and to the point. And, white it may be possible to re-introduce the contents of the pack later on by saying that "the packs were exclusive, not the contents", it would still leave them open to being sued for deceptive marketing. This is not something you want in your legal history as a company.

If things continue the way they are going, they are likely to be sued anyway. If players using the skins get attacked or ostracized as a result of community anger then what? You can't just start mass banning, you'll loose all your players. DE can do refunds if they really wanted to, it's not like it's impossible. They have always steered away from that option though because of how difficult and potentially costly it would be. But let's be real here, doesn't it make more sense to take a hit and issue refunds or whatever is necessary before their players start going at each other's throats? Yes it's petty and immature behavior, but that hasn't stopped other game communities from doing it. The resounding theme in this thread is that DE hasn't fixed anything, the issues and complaints haven't been addressed and ignoring that will only make people more angry. That anger will eventually turn to resentment and before you know it this problem will be too big for DE to handle. We need solutions not people like you blindly trying to defend DE's every mistake and watering down the thread with empty excuses.

8 minutes ago, Lionsheart89 said:

The ideal solution would be to add a pack (maybe 2?) that would give the skins, minus the aya and plat.  It wouldn't really be going back on anything. It would just be providing more options. Those that bought it already, congrats. You are now 600-2100 plat richer than the rest of us.

They could add an option to trade Aya for Plat, but I don't see them removing it from the packs

[Darkbring]

14 minutes ago, Lionsheart89 said:

The ideal solution would be to add a pack (maybe 2?) that would give the skins, minus the aya and plat.  It wouldn't really be going back on anything. It would just be providing more options.

It would, because people can argue they wouldn't have bought the other pack option if the new one existed from the start.

Technically you can do that, it's not inherently illegal. For example, tech companies do this all the time. They can release a car or a phone with all the bells and whistles first, then half a year later introduce a cheaper version without the extra stuff or slightly different contents. In DE's case however their product is completely digital in an online only game with limited lifespan, and it would be treated a bit differently in court if sued for deceptive marketing or something along those lines.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Darkbring

[Lionsheart89]

Just now, Darkbring said:

It would, because people can argue they wouldn't have bought the other pack option if the new one existed from the start.

That's their problem, not ours.

[(XBOX)EazyT4RG3T]

I think I've said everything I want to say. I've decided to boycott warframe for now. If/when they remove the FOMO aspect of these skins I'll return, but I don't want to be a part of a game that thinks this is okay.

[PublikDomain]

49 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.

A) Who tf is gonna waste money trying to sue anyone over something that trivial?

B) Isn't it wonderful DE has that new EULA?

Quote

Virtual Goods and Game Currency
c. Changes to Game Currency and Virtual Goods. Except as otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we, in our sole discretion, may modify, substitute, replace, suspend, cancel, or eliminate any Game Currency or Virtual Goods, including your ability to access or use Game Currency or Virtual Goods, without notice or liability to you, such as if we need to temporarily suspend the Game to make updates, have an emergency that requires us to disable our Services, or if we need to ultimately shut a Game down for economic or other reasons due to a limited number of users continuing to make use of the online Service over time. YOU AGREE THAT YOU WON’T ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM AGAINST US, OUR AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, OR LICENSORS (THE “COMPANY PARTIES”) RELATING TO (A) A CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE A PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN ANY GAME CURRENCY OR VIRTUAL GOODS; OR (B) A CLAIM FOR AN ALLEGED MONETARY VALUE OF GAME CURRENCY OR VIRTUAL GOODS LOST UPON (I) DELETION OR SUSPENSION OF YOUR ACCOUNT, (II) ADJUSTMENTS TO THE GAME THAT RESULT IN THE VALUE OF VIRTUAL GOODS OR GAME CURRENCY CHANGING, OR (III) MODIFICATION, TERMINATION, OR EXPIRATION OF THIS EULA.

Like it's kind of spelled out.

[Darkbring]

10 hours ago, Lionsheart89 said:

That's their problem, not ours.

Again, I agree. Just pointing out why it's not so simple. Should they bite the bullet and issue refunds, followed by redesign and re-release of the pack? Absolutely.

 

10 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Who tf is gonna waste money trying to sue anyone over something that trivial?

This would be such an easy win you wouldn't need to pay the lawyer a dime. They would just ask for a big cut of the profits. Especially because it wouldn't be just one person suing the company.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

This would be such an easy win you wouldn't need to pay the lawyer a dime. They would just ask for a big cut of the profits. Especially because it wouldn't be just one person suing the company.

Easy win for your lawyer, maybe. They'd get to bill you for the hour while they point to the EULA and tell you you've got nothing to stand on. Like, am I misreading something or it pretty clearly spelled out? You agree not to raise a claim against DE if the monetary value of a virtual good is changed due to an adjustment to the game, an adjustment DE can make at any time at their sole discretion with no notice or liability to you.

[Cerikus]

22 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

Should they bite the bullet and issue refunds

A huge reality check for everyone in this thread. The purchases usually go through third party providers. Steam, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.

Anyone who thinks DE have any sort of levarge over those companies to "just" issue refunds, is completelly naive. Business is not that simple and people who bought the packs DIDN'T buy them from DE, but from the companies that are running the console/store.

For example: If someone bought the pack through Steam, their purchase agreement is with Steam, NOT Digital Extremes. So if they want a refund, they have to ask Steam and good luck with that.

DE literally CANNOT issue large scale refunds, because that would mean the third parties would have to agree and that's NEVER going to happen.

So that's the reality. These are the facts.

DE probably could with difficulites modify the packs or add new options, but refund is impossible to do.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Cerikus

[Darkbring]

10 hours ago, Cerikus said:

A huge reality check for everyone in this thread. The purchases usually go through third party providers. Steam, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.

Anyone who thinks DE have any sort of levarge over those companies to "just" issue refunds, is completelly naive. Business is not that simple and people who bought the packs DIDN'T buy them from DE, but from the companies that are running the console/store.

For example: If someone bought the pack through Steam, their purchase agreement is with Steam, NOT Digital Extremes. So if they want a refund, they have to ask Steam and good luck with that.

DE literally CANNOT issue large scale refunds, because that would mean the third parties would have to agree and that's NEVER going to happen.

So that's the reality. These are the facts.

DE probably could with difficulites modify the packs or add new options, but refund is impossible to do.

 

 

True, that's another layer of issues that they would have to deal with if they decide to actually try to fix this problem. I don't think that it's impossible to do, it's just that it would probably involve a huge monetary loss for DE if they do it. For example, why would Steam or other providers disagree about refunding the purchase? Well, their main concern would most likely be that they would lose their cut of the profits. What can DE do about it? Pay the difference out of their pocket. That way providers keep their cut basically for free and get a chance to double dip on the fixed pack re-purchase, while people recieve the refunds. Would DEcent consider losing money as a viable way of fixing their #*!% up? I really, really doubt it, especially because the issue gets worse and worse with every new purchase through the providers. How can they possibly mitigate the monetary loss on refunds? They can make refunds optional (as in you have to manually refuse the refund, not manually apply for a refund, otherwise it opens a whole new can of legal worms) and offer additional compensation (aka free in-game stuff) to those who choose not to refund. Again, not ideal, there are probably also a bunch of hidden rocks I didn't even think of and can't account for, but if there is a proper solution that would satisfy most people (except for DEcent themselves ofc) then it would probably look somewhat like what I described.

 

10 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Easy win for your lawyer, maybe. They'd get to bill you for the hour while they point to the EULA and tell you you've got nothing to stand on. Like, am I misreading something or it pretty clearly spelled out? You agree not to raise a claim against DE if the monetary value of a virtual good is changed due to an adjustment to the game, an adjustment DE can make at any time at their sole discretion with no notice or liability to you.

 

 

 

 

This wouldn't be an adjustment to the game, so it probably doesn't apply.