So what happens with panzer vulpa after rework?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

On 2023-09-06 at 6:57 PM, Hexerin said:

I could keep going on with this topic, but that'll be all I go forward with to you. I'm also washing my hands of you, because you clearly have motives, and I'm simply not interested in feeding into them past this point of shutting you down

I let your reply sit for a bit and wanted to clarify eventually, since this thread popped up again I'll do it now.

No I don't have motives, I was confused by your posts since it made me think that you thought they were liars, that's all. You don't think they're liars and that's great but it would've been better if you clarified what you meant in your first reply to me.

As for the points you made about them playing favorites with beasts:

I don't believe that's the issue, you're right that beasts have better options (well health link depends on the frame you use so that's debatable if it's better) but what you brought up seems to be just the problem of DE not updating old content than favoritism.

Should be getting more news about companion changes soon, maybe you'll be right and they ignored them, we'll see.

[Hexerin]

2 hours ago, Emwue said:

So nothing changed, since 90% of players already extracted ~1 minute ago? :P Obviously, then there are Titania mains, who already extracted 1:30 ago, for them even Panzer doesn't really work. :P

(Joke obviously, but still, two minutes is awfully long time in Warframe, hopefully they will not make it take that long, otherwise it will really not change the situation that much) 

Longer timer would be fine, if it also gave the player a way to accelerate it. Something like "killing an enemy takes 5 seconds off the timer" or some such.

[Dunkelheit]

Am 5.9.2023 um 12:59 schrieb MaxTunnerX:

Nope. But thats just half of the abilities pretty much. If any companion can live forever, I dont see a reason to even equip a panzer vulpa other than visual/roleplaying/emotional reasons. Other companions will become much moee useful once they can infinitely revive.

Maybe see it this way:
Up till now you can only use ONE single pet out of 3 dozen or something.

After you can equip 3 dozen minus one pets and one is (as you say) unusable.

[PollexMessier]

It's still free viral, which is pretty big compared to what a lot of other pets have on offer.
My main concern is now there's even less of a reason to use anything other than Smeeta.
Not that I want Smeeta to be nerfed... God I don't. But you give me the option to buff drops in a game that's primary gameplay loop is grinding, what do you expect me to do with it? Never, ever replace it with anything else, is the answer.

[MaxTunnerX]

24 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Maybe see it this way:
Up till now you can only use ONE single pet out of 3 dozen or something.

After you can equip 3 dozen minus one pets and one is (as you say) unusable.

Well yes, but it would be a shame to turn a top pet into trash pet or meh/normal/decent pet.

[Emwue]

15 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Longer timer would be fine, if it also gave the player a way to accelerate it. Something like "killing an enemy takes 5 seconds off the timer" or some such.

As long as it's high enough per kill - honestly, I do not think Warframe needs even more kpm promotion with something like 1 second per, and 2+ minutes total as that would only add to imbalances that are already in game, such that nuke frames or bramma setups would end up almost instantly reviving fallen pets and slower setups like Ivara with sniper and whatnot would end up minutes without vacuum/loot radar each time a pet have been downed.

[PollexMessier]

1 hour ago, Emwue said:

As long as it's high enough per kill - honestly, I do not think Warframe needs even more kpm promotion with something like 1 second per, and 2+ minutes total as that would only add to imbalances that are already in game, such that nuke frames or bramma setups would end up almost instantly reviving fallen pets and slower setups like Ivara with sniper and whatnot would end up minutes without vacuum/loot radar each time a pet have been downed.

This could be somewhat mitigated by saying, only direct hit mele kills lower the counter. Maybe with some leeway like if you hit an enemy with a mele within a few tenths of a second of it dying, to account for status stealing your kill. Direct hit only so things like Glaive explosion, gunblades shots, Contagion, or other mele projectiles that can wipe out huge amounts of enemies at once don't cheese the ell out of it. And on kill only so there's not an inherent advantage in attack speed.
Which... would give some reason to use mele over guns.
Or just headshot kills but god I'm so sick of headshot conditions at this point, and that would also need the status accommodation... which is something headshot kill conditions don't have which is really annoying.

[LastN_]

On 2023-09-08 at 5:34 PM, Emwue said:

So nothing changed, since 90% of players already extracted ~1 minute ago? :P Obviously, then there are Titania mains, who already extracted 1:30 ago, for them even Panzer doesn't really work. :P

(Joke obviously, but still, two minutes is awfully long time in Warframe, hopefully they will not make it take that long, otherwise it will really not change the situation that much) 

2 min IS a long time, but they explicitly say that performance will affect uptime in coming rework. so if its a global 2min timer with a -1s/kill its not really 2 min, but its not necessarily 10 sec either.

[(NSW)Free_Aetharus]

20 minutes ago, LastN_ said:

they explicitly say that performance will affect uptime in coming rework

The pet that keeps waking up every twenty seconds to apply CC on you.

[_Anise_]

  

 

On 2023-09-05 at 11:52 AM, MaxTunnerX said:

I wonder what happens to panzer vulpa now that literally all companions will be immortal. Will it suddenly become the most useless pet, will it get an extra life or will it get something else to compensate?

it's so funny that there are like 3 different species of vulpa that all revive but the hyper focus is on panzer, I don't imagine they would remove the devolve mods from Vulpaphyla, that will just be their flavor of reviving they will probably just add more ways to come back for the other companions !

hopefully they do something better than that god awful get 10 finishers in 60 seconds or whatever it was revive pet thing, it does not work when revivinghas such a high requirement, hopefully they don't miss deleting that mod into something good when they do this rework.

On 2023-09-06 at 11:53 PM, DeeDeeLyla said:

permanent larva mode

it really sounds like you just want a sentinel, maybe use a sentinel ? with the gun from Nautilus is pretty op comparable to one of the guns warframes can wield

On 2023-09-09 at 8:38 AM, PollexMessier said:

ot that I want Smeeta to be nerfed... God I don't.

I do but not in the way you think, I think they should just give charm the vacuum effect, I don't mean make it suck up items but give it to all compainions, really most of the time I feel forced to run smeeta, its made farming void traces give me over 100 in a single run before, that grind is painful I can't afford not to run smeeta even though I have my bad ass tanky moa I would like to take.

[Emwue]

7 hours ago, LastN_ said:

so if its a global 2min timer with a -1s/kill its not really 2 min, but its not necessarily 10 sec either.

Uh huh... Just how much do you think a Saryn or like, even Ember player takes to kill 120 enemies in say SO/ESO? On the other hand, how much do you think an Ivara player with Rubico takes, in a non-SP spy mission?

As I already posted in this thread, my concern is that a low time per kill will heavily promote AoE spam and nuker frames, since for slower setups it will really not be a huge change as they can't reach KPM needed to actually meaningfully reduce that 2 minutes down time.

You could have a more specific condition(on melee kill, on headshot and so on and so forth), but then you are back to square one, with one play style getting promoted over others - the only solution that doesn't have this problem I can think of, is to have multiple conditions at the same time, differentiated by time taken off of global timer, like say a kill is 1s, a melee kill is 2, a OHKO headshot is 10-15-ish, a melee slam kill is 4 and so on, but that seems to be a way too complicated to put on a mod, which, my understanding is, that is what they are planning to do - I mean, you can't really have paragraphs of text in a mod, describing which type of a kill takes off how much time exactly.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-09-05 at 8:52 PM, MaxTunnerX said:

I wonder what happens to panzer vulpa now that literally all companions will be immortal. Will it suddenly become the most useless pet, will it get an extra life or will it get something else to compensate?

On 2023-09-05 at 9:24 PM, CosoMalvadoNG said:

We do not know? they haven't talked about it

Presumably they stay as is, no need to break what they are supposedly matching the rest with

[PollexMessier]

9 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

 I do but not in the way you think, I think they should just give charm the vacuum effect, I don't mean make it suck up items but give it to all compainions, really most of the time I feel forced to run smeeta, its made farming void traces give me over 100 in a single run before, that grind is painful I can't afford not to run smeeta even though I have my bad ass tanky moa I would like to take.

I thought about saying something along these lines. The issue is DE will NEVER do this.
I also highly doubt they're generous enough to just bump up the drop quantities of every single thing charm affects so that removing it just evens out. Even if this is the thing they really should do.

If they do anything about it they'll simply not be able to help themselves but to do it in a way that's bad for the players. It happens every time they change anything like this.

[_Anise_]

right now if I am leveling a thing, doing steelpath or really anything with drops I HAVE to take a smeeta, it feels bad not to!

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

The issue is DE will NEVER do this.

when all companions can't die smeeta will be in even more demand! I dont see what would be so wrong with spreading that buff otherwise Panzer and Smeeta will wen up being the only 2 companions people ever use.

 

[Pakaku]

On 2023-09-05 at 11:03 AM, (NSW)Free_Aetharus said:

The panzer remains the ONLY viable pet for viral.

Verglas + any robotic companion (minus Hounds) = easy viral procs

Perhaps after the companion rework, DE could rework the rest of the companion weapons to be, well, useful

[PollexMessier]

49 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

right now if I am leveling a thing, doing steelpath or really anything with drops I HAVE to take a smeeta, it feels bad not to!

when all companions can't die smeeta will be in even more demand! I dont see what would be so wrong with spreading that buff otherwise Panzer and Smeeta will wen up being the only 2 companions people ever use.

 

Oh that's definitely along the lines of what they should do. I mean I'm the one that brought up this issue in the first place. I think the only time I've ever unequipped my smeeta once I got it was leveling other pets and trying to get scans with Helios which it typically didn't do a very good job of before evaporating because an enemy glared at it a little too hard. I would really love to be able to equip whatever pet I want without feeling like I'm actively hurting myself by doing so. But asking for universal charm is essentially asking for a game-wide permanent resource and affinity booster.
The chance of them just nerfing charm into the ground is higher by several orders of magnitude. Or at best they would do it but slap a 5 second duration and 60s cooldown on it.

It's a problem they need to address. It's not a problem I trust them to address well.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

Panzer and Smeeta will wen up being the only 2 companions people ever use.

Meta chasers wonder why people are always put off by them. This. This right here.

The reason 99% of players run Vulpaphyla is because they're the only companion that can't die (aside from the known permadeath bug that has never, and will never, be fixed). In other words, they're the only companion that you can run if you want to always have your vacuum running... and since vacuum is basically mandatory to gameplay, well, you can connect the dots if you really rub those brain cells together.

If all companions (both robotic and beast) were to be given immortality like Vulpaphyla (and the Link mods fixed so they can actually be equipped on sentinels like their mod class states they should be capable of), you'd see a very healthy mix of basically every companion in the game being used by the playerbase.

[_Anise_]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Vulpaphyla is because they're the only companion that can't die

shieldlink + pillage subsume and a keen eye and none of the companions that can equip link mods ever have to die!, while I run a pillage subsume with my main frame a lot of the time, I can't take just any link companion to void trace farm because smeeta will sometimes have me complete a single mission with over 100 traces cutting my grind time by over 90% when I am just trying to upgrade a single relic.

there are also specific warframe abilities you can couple with companions to make them never die like damage resists / heals

the moa with blast shield also do a good amount of surviving on it's own, but most people don't really do these? panzer is still the most popular, not only because it does not die but also has the best aoe damage / viral status spread of any companion.,

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

if all companions (both robotic and beast) were to be given immortality like Vulpaphyla *SNIP*, you'd see a very healthy mix of basically every companion in the game being used by the playerbase.

you think all of them would see use but based on what ? all Vulpaphyla never die but I bet you see 10x more Panzer than the other 2 breeds,(people love renaming them mini-saryn) I bet most people can't even name the other two without looking them up?, off the top of my head there is a sly one that I think gives you evasion until you shoot, I don't even remember what the other ones is called but I think it does something with executing or suspending enemies ? maybe ?

While Sly sees some use (40% evasion while you are afk #bad) if all pets were given the same level of immortality I think panzer would still see wukong levels of use with smeeta trailing slightly behind, Helious is the only other companion next to those 2 rated S-Tier and I think it's for the scanning!

10 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

at best they would do it but slap a 5 second duration and 60s cooldown on it.

the 5 second wouldn't really work for affinity, maybe they could split affinity from the charm buff and make just affinity part of the buff a global mod (with some random junk in there) ? least then I wouldn't have to bring Smeeta for leveling