Testing on Torid's default beams and with Punch Through. What am I missing here?

[Zakalwe]

So I was told (rather rudely lol) that I should be using punch through on my Torid. I had tested it previously and seen no results, and I googled it and all info stated it didn't work, but this one person was insisting it creates more beams.

Today, someone said the same thing and kept insisting, so I went back to test just in case I missed something the first time.

The gif and image below are with 0 mods on the weapon:
Gif: https://lensdump.com/i/quWPea

Still image: https://lensdump.com/i/quZ7zP
I have 2 questions:

1. The Torid is supposed to chain between 5 enemies, right? It appears to be chaining 6 times to the right, and 5 to the left in the above gif and image. Again, this is with 0 mods.

2. If I add 3.9 punch through with my riven and normal Shred, same thing happens. Is Punch through doing anything at all? Is it enhancing the beams in some way instead of making more?

Anyway, if I'm misunderstanding something or doing something wrong here I'd love to know. I'm a bit confused why I seem to be seeing 11 beams total with 0 mods, and any info on punch through would be great. Thanks!

-

At a different angle (and showing the beams going for longer so it's not just the previous beams showing up before they dissipatedissapate) as someone suggested it might be hitting two targets, again 0 mods. I don't see how it would be hitting the top target anyway as it is closer to the right, and it is clearly making another beam to the top target anyway:
https://lensdump.com/i/quBNf0
https://lensdump.com/i/qum0Sm

Again, I get the exact same results with 3.9 punch through.

Another angle to show there's no punch through effect on lined up enemies (this time with 3.9 punch through total):
https://lensdump.com/i/quKsca

Edited October 17, 2023 by Zakalwe

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

As far as I'm aware, weapons with chaining mechanics do not generate subsequent chain beams from enemies struck by punch-through beams, only the first "collision" counts.

Stills, you hit more enemies so there's no harm on that, is there?
You could technically be hitting multiple in-line enemies twice once via the chaining, and twice via the punch-through.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

So as a general rule, modded punch through doesn't work on AoE (undocumented change from like 1(?) year ago). So punch through does not work on Torid at all, even the Incarnon form.

42 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

I'm a bit confused why I seem to be seeing 11 beams total with 0 mods, and any info on punch through would be great. Thanks!

Torid Incarnon's beam has an AoE on the end, which can create a new 5 chain tree for each enemy the AoE hits (downside is the AoE and chains from it don't benefit from multishot)

Edited October 16, 2023 by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom

[Zakalwe]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

So as a general rule, modded punch through doesn't work on AoE (undocumented change from like 1(?) year ago). So punch through does not work on Torid at all, even the Incarnon form.

Torid Incarnon's beam has an AoE on the end, which can create a new 5 chain tree for each enemy the AoE hits (downside is the AoE and chains from it don't benefit from multishot)

Okay, so the AOE part makes sense I guess. In my example the right hand target is closest to the impact point of the primary beam though, why is it chaining to the target in front instead?

 

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

As far as I'm aware, weapons with chaining mechanics do not generate subsequent chain beams from enemies struck by punch-through beams, only the first "collision" counts.

Stills, you hit more enemies so there's no harm on that, is there?
You could technically be hitting multiple in-line enemies twice once via the chaining, and twice via the punch-through.

I've tested with and without shred and the TTK is, as far as I can see, identical. So if there is added dmg on the beams at all with punch through, it doesn't appear to be adding much. Again though, I could be wrong here. If anyone knows I am, I'd losve to see some info/evidence.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

5 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

In my example the right hand target is closest to the impact point of the primary beam though, why is it chaining to the target in front instead?

If you could specify which example, that would be appreciated. I assume you're talking about this one.

Best I got is that the visual distance is deceiving due to the perspective.

[Zakalwe]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

If you could specify which example, that would be appreciated. I assume you're talking about this one.

Best I got is that the visual distance is deceiving due to the perspective.

Yep, looks like the enemy on the right is much closer to ther beam's hit point. Could just be a matter of perspective skewing though.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Zakalwe

[Hypersycos]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

If you could specify which example, that would be appreciated. I assume you're talking about this one.

Best I got is that the visual distance is deceiving due to the perspective.

I might be misunderstanding the question, but the middle two enemies look closer to the reticle than the one on the bottom right to me. Looks like you're about half-way between then, and then skewed slightly to the right. You do move your crosshair slightly after you stop firing which makes it a bit harder to judge. So as far as I can tell, this is what's happening and is what I would expect?

EDIT: Attempted to re-create the example, is this clearer re:perspective?

Spoiler

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hypersycos
spoilered the images to reduce clutter

[Foeglas]

The only way I know to increase Torid Incarnon chaining is Primed Firestorm (see link for explanation).

[Zakalwe]

1 hour ago, Hypersycos said:

I might be misunderstanding the question, but the middle two enemies look closer to the reticle than the one on the bottom right to me. Looks like you're about half-way between then, and then skewed slightly to the right. You do move your crosshair slightly after you stop firing which makes it a bit harder to judge. So as far as I can tell, this is what's happening and is what I would expect?

EDIT: Attempted to re-create the example, is this clearer re:perspective?

  Hide contents

Okay, with the ariel view it does look like the lines are closer to each other than the enemies are in the row so that must be it. Thanks for the images.

[Hexerin]

Punch Through creating new chains requires you to hit more than one enemy with the main beam. The new chains will come from the 2nd, 3rd, etc enemies, not from the initial enemy.

[Zakalwe]

10 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Punch Through creating new chains requires you to hit more than one enemy with the main beam. The new chains will come from the 2nd, 3rd, etc enemies, not from the initial enemy.

Cannot get this to work at all.

Can you show any video of it working?

[Hexerin]

39 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

Cannot get this to work at all.

Can you show any video of it working?

Like others have said, it's not a universal thing for all chain beam weapons. I have no idea if Torid's incarnon is one of them (as I don't own the weapon, let alone the incarnon). However, I do own Amprex, which behaves this way. My post was primarily in response to those examples OP has been posting, as he's only hitting one enemy with the main beam and talking about not getting secondary chains.

[Zakalwe]

55 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Like others have said, it's not a universal thing for all chain beam weapons. I have no idea if Torid's incarnon is one of them (as I don't own the weapon, let alone the incarnon). However, I do own Amprex, which behaves this way. My post was primarily in response to those examples OP has been posting, as he's only hitting one enemy with the main beam and talking about not getting secondary chains.

I am the OP, lol.

I've tested it the way you describe, no matter how many enemies I hit the beams don't go past what is shown above.

[Hexerin]

12 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

I am the OP, lol.

I've tested it the way you describe, no matter how many enemies I hit the beams don't go past what is shown above.

Ah, so you are. I've found myself less and less paying attention to who's posting what these days. The lack of personalized avatars makes it a PITA to tell at a glance (especially when a particular avatar, like yours, is so widely used).

[Zakalwe]

47 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Ah, so you are. I've found myself less and less paying attention to who's posting what these days. The lack of personalized avatars makes it a PITA to tell at a glance (especially when a particular avatar, like yours, is so widely used).

Too many people suffering from the eternal weight of Founders on here, it seems.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

Punch through is disabled on the Torid's Incarnon mode, but Primed Firestorm is a good contender. Just pop it on and try it out in ESO...it's amazing. Punch through does work on on bullets with ricochet but with differing effects. It results in bullets that don't explode on hit when a bullet passes through an enemy like on the Miter Incarnon; however, punch through works really well on the Dual Toxocysts Incarnon which have non-exploding bullets that ricochet.

[TARINunit9]

14 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

So I was told (rather rudely lol) that I should be using punch through on my Torid.

This is with the Incarnons, right? On the basic fire, punch through used to risk the bombs punching through the floor and never detonating

For the Incarnon beam, my guess is by "punch through" they mean "Primed Shred," and by "Shred" they mean "fire rate"

[Zakalwe]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is with the Incarnons, right? On the basic fire, punch through used to risk the bombs punching through the floor and never detonating

For the Incarnon beam, my guess is by "punch through" they mean "Primed Shred," and by "Shred" they mean "fire rate"

They were talking about punch through specifically.

[schilds]

They're probably just going off how chaining weapons typically work and assuming the Torid incarnon form is the same

[Caino8819]

I was hoping incarnon form acted according to the way Amprex does when modded for PT. Sad

Edited October 26, 2023 by Caino8819
grammar