Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

In response to your "least bad solution" post, 

 

I would find "skip button" more palatable if it wasnt *paid*. Because aside from the greed aspect of it DE would suddenly be in a position where they have a financial incentive to make quests grindy/long/difficult just to steer players towards that.

Nah, and there's no greed to this at all. You guys still don't understand that this game isn't MADE for free? If you to skip through 10 years worth of the entire product just to get to the current state, then it is perfectly logical to expect to pay for it. 

In this case, any player expecting to just freely skip through is being selfish. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

42 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Nah, and there's no greed to this at all. You guys still don't understand that this game isn't MADE for free? If you to skip through 10 years worth of the entire product just to get to the current state, then it is perfectly logical to expect to pay for it. 

In this case, any player expecting to just freely skip through is being selfish. 

How about a compromise? Skip button can be paid with plat OR some other resource that DE chooses. And it skips all grind missions, still allowing players to go through the story/cinematic missions. They can get caught up in like a day without as much of the downsides. Though there is still an issue with new players simply not having the gear or knowledge to play deep-game content, so it's kinda pointless. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[Venus-Venera]

Am 27.10.2023 um 23:45 schrieb Perrierite:

I usually don't post complaints of sort, this but I will put this. It is not a good idea.
If it's not skipping but "progress in x10 speed mode" loan-a-frame-of-your-choise (with maxed mods that can run though basic starchart content) and remove all MR/craft restrictions so that accessing contents faster (like "paid tier" of battlepass) might make sense (it's like paying and skipping build time - it won't steal the joy of acquisition/making progress itself).

But even then I still say it won't work in long run.

Warframe's story is emotional since TSD. Story mechanicls heavily rely on the assumption that through customization and game-play loop players feel frames/operator/drifter truly theirs. If someone skips whole story they wouldn't have emotional attachment at all. How would they care the story then? How that leads to new player hooked to the story, and stay the game and wait for the new update?

heh? and why should I even have such nonsense???? I can create a lot of emotions just like that. I don't need a game/movie/other people or whatever... I can even laugh/cry for no reason. simply study and practice acting. many holywood actors train with "Stanislavski's system".............

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

In response to your "least bad solution" post, 

 

I would find "skip button" more palatable if it wasnt *paid*. 

I am also on the side of a free skip, but I have to admit some of the arguments against it are very solid.

- If you offer it for free, many players who otherwise wouldn't skip it, will skip it and that's bad.
- If you offer it for free, it means the whole questline is worth literally nothing and can be freely skiped and that's also bad.
- The story skip should never be something you are incentivised to do unless you have a good reason and giving it away for free would be a huge incentive and that's bad.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Because aside from the greed aspect of it DE would suddenly be in a position where they have a financial incentive to make quests grindy/long/difficult just to steer players towards that.

Nah. If 10 years of Warframe is a proof of something it's that DE wouldn't do that. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

22 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Nah, and there's no greed to this at all. You guys still don't understand that this game isn't MADE for free? If you to skip through 10 years worth of the entire product just to get to the current state, then it is perfectly logical to expect to pay for it. 

In this case, any player expecting to just freely skip through is being selfish. 

"Theres no greed because the game is free". A free to play game can still have questionable monetization strategy and one of my biggest reasons for supporting DE over the years is ive always felt like theyve generally managed to avoid feeling scummy. Unlike a lot of devs. 

 

I dont see how "free skip" is selfish. 

21 hours ago, Cerikus said:

I am also on the side of a free skip, but I have to admit some of the arguments against it are very solid.

- If you offer it for free, many players who otherwise wouldn't skip it, will skip it and that's bad.
- If you offer it for free, it means the whole questline is worth literally nothing and can be freely skiped and that's also bad.
- The story skip should never be something you are incentivised to do unless you have a good reason and giving it away for free would be a huge incentive and that's bad.

Nah. If 10 years of Warframe is a proof of something it's that DE wouldn't do that. 

1) either skipping is bad or it isnt in my opinion. If its bad, you shouldnt be able to just buy permission to do the bad thing. If its not bad, you shouldnt have to pay for it. 

2) i could say the same thing about skipping. The second dream, war within, sacrifice, etc, all of that just *poof* gone and irrelevant in the blink of an eye. You wouldnt know anything about whats actually going on. 

3) i kinda get what youre saying "oh sure why not just hit the skip button and get whatever weapons/etc instantly" but this kind of segways into the next point,

 

DE has in fact felt it necessary to nerf grind and or story content and or crafting requirements many, many times, in response to player feedback.

And DE has never had much of a reason not to listen to feedback like that, save for the cost of paying a dev the hours it takes to fix a problem.

But you cant tell me this wouldnt give an incentive to DE to keep quest content more grindy/difficult than if a paid skip didnt exist.

If whispers in the wall dropped today the best possible case for DE would be a bunch of people play the game and while theyre here they buy plat and maybe some of the cash only stuff. 

 

If whispers in the wall dropped today but there was a paid skip option, the more people they can get to pay, the better. 

So why not have a really annoying boss battle, or resource to farm, or layer of RNG thrown in.

[Cerikus]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

i could say the same thing about skipping. The second dream, war within, sacrifice, etc, all of that just *poof* gone and irrelevant in the blink of an eye. You wouldnt know anything about whats actually going on. 

No. Putting a price tag on something literally means it has value. Story skip would contain completion and rewards, which means you are not only buying a skip, you are also buying progression, which is time and that's money.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

DE has in fact felt it necessary to nerf grind and or story content and or crafting requirements many, many times, in response to player feedback.

No, not really. They lessen progression roadblocks, because they see new players leaving. They are loosing potential customers, because new players see the big shiny trailer for newest update and upon installation they find out they have to grind through at least 50-100 hours of old decrepit content. And unless DE are willing to rework entire starchart and create 2 or 3 cinematic quests that bring new players from earth to Uranus, this won't get better. It's all about player retention. People who leave usually don't give feedback.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

But you cant tell me this wouldnt give an incentive to DE to keep quest content more grindy/difficult than if a paid skip didnt exist.

I don't care about hypotheticals. Warframe is in the best state it's ever been and DE are listening to players more than they ever were. Everything they said and posted about this topic points to them trying to solve an actual problem.  Innocent until proven guilty. 

3 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So why not have a really annoying boss battle, or resource to farm, or layer of RNG thrown in.

This argument is nonesensical, because grinds are never connected to quests.

[Karyst]

On 2023-10-27 at 9:00 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So DE is worried about the latest content drops being too hard to get to for new players because they have to do all the old content first. Kinda like how just for example it takes awhile to get to the new war. 

Well in the latest dev stream theyre considering adding pay-to-catch-up. 

Holy mother of god please no.

 

Jesus christ. This is the worst idea ive ever seen. I havent always agreed with DE and that might sound like hyperbole but it is literally the cringiest idea ive ever seen. 

The chat immediately was like please no. 

I really hope this is one of those things where they have an idea and the community is like please no and they *listen*.

 

A better solution would be to make more quests co-op enabled. 

Pay to skip quests to play quest.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-11-03 at 3:46 PM, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

How about a compromise? Skip button can be paid with plat OR some other resource that DE chooses. And it skips all grind missions, still allowing players to go through the story/cinematic missions. They can get caught up in like a day without as much of the downsides. Though there is still an issue with new players simply not having the gear or knowledge to play deep-game content, so it's kinda pointless. 

But this is where I think the disconnect is regarding the skip intention. The goal is to have Whispers as the stage for the next chapter and, just like Duviri (also a new starting point), people who want to check the game out, or returning players, will want to start there. If growth, experience, grind and retro play can all be achieved at this point, but you are allowed to have gone this route via a skip, then paying for the package is logical.

I'll put it this way: "The game is still free, but you have to work your way up" is EXACTLY what playing a video game is. Somehow, this is being misrepresented as "Endure the game just to get to the current endpoint". Then why play a video game if that is the mentality? New players should WANT to play the content of the game, from beginning to end, and DE is offering the best of both worlds. Raising capital to keep the party going and get people paid is even better.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2023-11-04 at 7:38 PM, Cerikus said:

No. Putting a price tag on something literally means it has value. Story skip would contain completion and rewards, which means you are not only buying a skip, you are also buying progression, which is time and that's money.

No, not really. They lessen progression roadblocks, because they see new players leaving. They are loosing potential customers, because new players see the big shiny trailer for newest update and upon installation they find out they have to grind through at least 50-100 hours of old decrepit content. And unless DE are willing to rework entire starchart and create 2 or 3 cinematic quests that bring new players from earth to Uranus, this won't get better. It's all about player retention. People who leave usually don't give feedback.

I don't care about hypotheticals. Warframe is in the best state it's ever been and DE are listening to players more than they ever were. Everything they said and posted about this topic points to them trying to solve an actual problem.  Innocent until proven guilty. 

This argument is nonesensical, because grinds are never connected to quests.

I can put a price on jars filled with farts. Just because you can put a price on something doesnt mean its prudent to do so.

"No not really" YES really despite your mental gymnastics. "Lessening progression roadblocks" is another way of saying my point. They have "lessened progression roadblocks" many times, which they have never had an incentive to NOT DO. Im not interested in entertaining your antics with semantics about the differences between "grind" and "progression". Suggesting theres no grind involved in getting "caught up" is just intellectually dishonest.

Which brings me to the next point, it absolutely isnt a hypothetical, to suggest if they implement a pay to skip quest feature, that they wouldnt be incentivized to nudge people towards skipping the quests from then on out.

The more people that pay to skip, the more money theyd make.

 

That isnt some hypothetical what if bud thats a cold hard fact. 

If 0 people hit the button they make zero dollars off it.

If 100 people hit the button they make some money.

If 100k people hit the button they make more money.

So why should they give a hoot if a quest is too long or too hard or too grindy or has too many prerequisites or has too many "progression roadblocks" or is just plain not that much fun to play and people just skip it? 

 

what IS hypothetical, and we can debate this part, is how DE might or might not handle that in the future. Maybe they'll turn to the dark side kinda like how Eververse was only supposed to be cosmetic, optional items and now the game is a microtransaction hell. Or maybe they wont. I do think the most likely scenario is somewhere in the middle which is worse off than where we are now and honestly the whole idea seems rediculous.

Might as well throw in a feature into games where if you cough up some cash it goes straight to end credits.

 

[Hayrack]

They were talking about pay-to-skip, meanwhile, thousands of WF players were internally screaming in 100 PT Phase 2 runs.

How about not blocking player progress with ruthless RNG? Heirloom stuff all over again.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Hayrack

[Karyst]

On 2023-11-04 at 12:05 AM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Nah, and there's no greed to this at all. You guys still don't understand that this game isn't MADE for free? If you to skip through 10 years worth of the entire product just to get to the current state, then it is perfectly logical to expect to pay for it. 

In this case, any player expecting to just freely skip through is being selfish. 

How much?

[(XBOX)Kahn S319]

I think what they could do if they really want to go forward with this is give players who choose to skip, MRK 1 versions of the equipment, example MRK 1 archwing, MRK1 necramech, MRK1 railjack, it wouldn't count for mastery and it wouldn't be as good as the stuff you get from the quest. That way the new players can still play with their higher level friends but they still are encouraged to go back and do the quests at some point to get the better gear and the mastery. thoughts?