PLEASE! STOP adding #XXX on everything!!!

[pinkxblack]

3小时前 , CephalonCarnage 说:

its for cross save. Wo while PC players never had 2 Bobs. When they connect up the console players, there may well be a Bob there too. Which one is the real Bob? which one gets to keep the name, and which has to choose a new name? Adding the numbers is possibly the only realistic solution - unless you have better.

please check it out down there, just a little thought.

[Graavarg]

15 hours ago, BroDutt said:

...will complain that they claim it first...

There is probably a datestamp/timestamp that will solve that little conundrum admirably...

[Circle_of_Psi]

The only way I can see them getting around this number issue is if they embed it into the account, similar to what Discord has. <Username> then #Username, the name will be unique to you only and you'll never have 2 names the same, since your #Number is your actual account name.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

Future-proofing; right now you may only have 4 clans or players named "Clan X" or "Player X", but they may allow up to 999 players to have the same name or clan name in the future with this system, rather than forcing some arbitrary 4 name limit or rule. If cross-save and progression is implemented, now there's just "accounts" and no platform specific accounts, so it would make sense for that system to be a bit more robust since you could have 4 players with the same name all on PC if they've all transferred their progress in that manner, and now a new switch player wants to use that same name as an example.

That would be horrible future proofing for a horrible future design decision. Allowing more than 1 player with the same name is already an issue and an annoyance overall, allowing up to 999 (or more) clans/players to have the same name would just be so increadibly stupid. Four already puts issues in the system when it comes to friends etc. Which of the 4 are you supposed to add? Imagine 999 people with the same name and 999 different numbers.

And no, if done correctly you'd never have more than 4, since PC, Switch, Xbox and PSN will no longer be seperate after cross save. So if someone currently has PC, PSN and NSW accounts and merges them to the PC, the account at that point should use the PC name. If he used the same name on all 3 platforms there would only be 2 users with the same name left, him and whomever has the name on Xbox. Allowing future new accounts to have the same name would be utterly stupid at that point since a WF account (the only version of account for the game) will already be in use. Because I sure as hell hope they wont allow multiple people using the same name beyond the need to cover potential crossplay merging.

I can just imagine what a cluster#*!% this will be with things like twitch "drops" when multiple people use the same "base name" and there is only a single account version. "Hmm wait a minute, which was my pointless # again?". All could have been much more easily solved by just using (PC), (PSN) and so on as the final destination tag after the merge of accounts. Since it would be just like now, name and "platform". I still dont know which player # I've been given, I've seen it in my profile but it isnt something I recall since I'm on my profile page maybe one time per year or every other year for some odd reason.

Edited November 4, 2023 by SneakyErvin

[Hexerin]

On 2023-11-03 at 7:53 AM, ----Legacy---- said:

Funny to see Discord used as example since they moved away from discriminator numbers earlier this year, though 🤔

Which they rightfully got hammered for. Easily the most idiotic decision they've made, and that's saying something considering they make idiotic decisions every other day.

[pinkxblack]

11小时前 , SneakyErvin 说:

That would be horrible future proofing for a horrible future design decision. Allowing more than 1 player with the same name is already an issue and an annoyance overall, allowing up to 999 (or more) clans/players to have the same name would just be so increadibly stupid. Four already puts issues in the system when it comes to friends etc. Which of the 4 are you supposed to add? Imagine 999 people with the same name and 999 different numbers.

thats what i thought: MADNESS! how come they dont see it...

[Nekomian]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would be horrible future proofing for a horrible future design decision. Allowing more than 1 player with the same name is already an issue and an annoyance overall, allowing up to 999 (or more) clans/players to have the same name would just be so increadibly stupid. Four already puts issues in the system when it comes to friends etc. Which of the 4 are you supposed to add? Imagine 999 people with the same name and 999 different numbers

I did say "proofing" and not "they're definitely going to do this", designing the system to handle more than just a limited expected use case tends to avoid breaks or issues in the future (i.e. a new platform comes and it's not on this list and breaks everything). That said, I highly doubt one username would ever have 999 different numbers, unless you have friends that make such generic names like bob or tenno as their username, and even then it would be extremely rare and the person would just give you the full name, like tenno#284.

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I can just imagine what a cluster#*!% this will be with things like twitch "drops" when multiple people use the same "base name" and there is only a single account version. "Hmm wait a minute, which was my pointless # again?".

To reiterate - this is only for player use. All of the back-end likely uses UIDs that are distinct, as does every database system I've worked with. This would not affect twitch drops or anything internally handled. (Quick edit: if you're referring to giveaways, they can just ask for your in-game alias and/or email, if not the extra info after the # sign).

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And no, if done correctly you'd never have more than 4, since PC, Switch, Xbox and PSN will no longer be seperate after cross save. So if someone currently has PC, PSN and NSW accounts and merges them to the PC, the account at that point should use the PC name. If he used the same name on all 3 platforms there would only be 2 users with the same name left, him and whomever has the name on Xbox. Allowing future new accounts to have the same name would be utterly stupid at that point since a WF account (the only version of account for the game) will already be in use. Because I sure as hell hope they wont allow multiple people using the same name beyond the need to cover potential crossplay merging.

There's a few issues with this approach, though I understand what you mean. If you have 4 accounts, all say named TennoA, on PC, Xbox, PSN, and NSW and they're all separate, there's a few approaches to take. If you allow progress migration, which DE plan on doing with "cross-save", it becomes a bit complicated. Say all the console players want to migrate to PC; now, you have four distinct people (no account merges) all called TennoA on PC, with their own discriminators (i.e. #123, #456, etc.).

Now, the servers that have PC accounts have 4 "TennoA" users, but all other console platforms have none. Some new user on PSN wants to create their profile and call themselves "TennoA", and they do so from their PSN account that directly connects to the game. Does the game force them to change their PSN account in order to play, when there's not currently anyone named "TennoA" on PSN? Does it force a re-name / append numbers, possibly annoying or breaking the existing setup for how console profiles are linked to accounts and able to change their aliases as such (they use UIDs too but their account names and changes via console are generally reflected by the game)?

Cross-play by itself could only have a max of 4 accounts (one distinct username per platform), but cross-save adds a whole different level of complexities to how accounts move, what servers they're on, how they'd go about checking those accounts, saving progress between all of the platforms and servers, etc. People on consoles can change names linked to the console account itself, while on PC alias changes cost plat and are a bit less frequent and more isolated. Allowing users to migrate to / hop between other platforms and change names as much as they'd like (I'm sure some have alias changing limits too tbf) can break a lot of things, so the approach they took should be able to handle this relatively well. The alternative is forcing a lot of name changes, and I can see that becoming a constant complaint as "why should I have to change the alias I've had for years to switch from NSW to PSN?", among other ones.

Whatever limitations on accounts they decide to do, this method they've used will support them the best, and is the least limiting / disruptive in terms of player experience.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Naroxas44
additional info

[DstroyR_Prime]

Just remember - Warframe still "open-beta"/ We are just volunteers-testers, with free access to testing devs own product with devs conditions which we agreed with, by fact of usuing this product as it is. So, now we are testers of this #separation system, and any feedback may be wellcomed, instead trolling or hate-speach in devs or other product-users adress, i guess.
P.S. Just imagine that some Tenno got add-on #404 to his nickname XD I think, it is funny and see no any clues of tragedy here. Digital reality needs digital solutions for digital issues. I sure that numbers looks ugly, but not uglier than phone numbers, taxes numbers, car numbers or numbers of houses on the street with damned number too=) It is not biggest issue in this game.
P.P.S. Much bigger issue, as for me, it is when i run Duviri from Relay or Dojo after spiral changing, but i cant predict what gear waits for me in Teshin`s cave. Duviri-icon in Relay or Dojo star-chart always inform about same gear which was available last time when i check it in Orbiter, even if spiral changes when i chilling in relay. So, system ever showing correct pool of gear for current spiral only in Orbiter star-chart, but not from Dojo or Relay. Hell of a thing, is it not?=)

[pinkxblack]

1小时前 , DstroyR_Prime 说:

Just remember - Warframe still "open-beta"/ We are just volunteers-testers, with free access to testing devs own product with devs conditions which we agreed with, by fact of usuing this product as it is. So, now we are testers of this #separation system, and any feedback may be wellcomed, instead trolling or hate-speach in devs or other product-users adress, i guess.

nonsense! warframe is a FULL GAME in any ways... ive paid hundreds for this game already, ima consumer i have rights to complain if they did it wrong, this is one of those things they messed up. and i didnt harass any developers i dont know why you add that statement...

[DstroyR_Prime]

33 минуты назад, pinkxblack сказал:

nonsense! warframe is a FULL GAME in any ways... ive paid hundreds for this game already, ima consumer i have rights to complain if they did it wrong, this is one of those things they messed up. and i didnt harass any developers i dont know why you add that statement...

Well, you`ve paid as volunteer, or as "good-willing supporter", if you want. Anyway, it is always good to read users agreement before talking about imaginery rights of free-willing testers of free open-beta product=)

[pinkxblack]

4小时前 , DstroyR_Prime 说:

Well, you`ve paid as volunteer, or as "good-willing supporter", if you want. Anyway, it is always good to read users agreement before talking about imaginery rights of free-willing testers of free open-beta product=)

why you keep saying WARFRAME is an open-beta free testing game which is NOT, the game is an official product (money maker) and just achieve 10 years lately, i dont even know what your point is? like dont talk just take it if you trying to say... and im not just got here buddy. =)

Edited November 5, 2023 by pinkxblack

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

I did say "proofing" and not "they're definitely going to do this", designing the system to handle more than just a limited expected use case tends to avoid breaks or issues in the future (i.e. a new platform comes and it's not on this list and breaks everything). That said, I highly doubt one username would ever have 999 different numbers, unless you have friends that make such generic names like bob or tenno as their username, and even then it would be extremely rare and the person would just give you the full name, like tenno#284.

To reiterate - this is only for player use. All of the back-end likely uses UIDs that are distinct, as does every database system I've worked with. This would not affect twitch drops or anything internally handled. (Quick edit: if you're referring to giveaways, they can just ask for your in-game alias and/or email, if not the extra info after the # sign).

There's a few issues with this approach, though I understand what you mean. If you have 4 accounts, all say named TennoA, on PC, Xbox, PSN, and NSW and they're all separate, there's a few approaches to take. If you allow progress migration, which DE plan on doing with "cross-save", it becomes a bit complicated. Say all the console players want to migrate to PC; now, you have four distinct people (no account merges) all called TennoA on PC, with their own discriminators (i.e. #123, #456, etc.).

Now, the servers that have PC accounts have 4 "TennoA" users, but all other console platforms have none. Some new user on PSN wants to create their profile and call themselves "TennoA", and they do so from their PSN account that directly connects to the game. Does the game force them to change their PSN account in order to play, when there's not currently anyone named "TennoA" on PSN? Does it force a re-name / append numbers, possibly annoying or breaking the existing setup for how console profiles are linked to accounts and able to change their aliases as such (they use UIDs too but their account names and changes via console are generally reflected by the game)?

Cross-play by itself could only have a max of 4 accounts (one distinct username per platform), but cross-save adds a whole different level of complexities to how accounts move, what servers they're on, how they'd go about checking those accounts, saving progress between all of the platforms and servers, etc. People on consoles can change names linked to the console account itself, while on PC alias changes cost plat and are a bit less frequent and more isolated. Allowing users to migrate to / hop between other platforms and change names as much as they'd like (I'm sure some have alias changing limits too tbf) can break a lot of things, so the approach they took should be able to handle this relatively well. The alternative is forcing a lot of name changes, and I can see that becoming a constant complaint as "why should I have to change the alias I've had for years to switch from NSW to PSN?", among other ones.

Whatever limitations on accounts they decide to do, this method they've used will support them the best, and is the least limiting / disruptive in terms of player experience.

But a new "platform" wouldnt break it, since this is done so there will only be one platform going onward. So even if say a brand new type of console is made or an android phone port would happen it would still just be the same platform as everyone else is already on. So what they do is utterly pointless since during the cross save/merger transition only 4 distinct account types will exsist. So there cannot be more than 4 unique users with the same name at the point of the merger, then that number either stays or is reduced depending on which parent account those that need to merge will use.

Back end doesnt do squat in the case of the "drops". I'm not refering to the regular ones you have a link active for, I'm talking about the specific stream winnings where you need to contact DE directly with your in-game name since it isnt automatically handled by Twitch for instance. This will end up being more messy than needed due to random numbers.

Yeah, 4 distinct people that would either only need 4 different numbers (1-4) or keep their original acronym i.e (PSN), (Xbox) or (NSW) like it is on the forums, with (PC) added if they feel a need.. There is absolutely no need to use more than those 1-4 numbers or acronyms because there will (or should) never be more than 4 people sharing a name. It's far easier to remember a number between 1-4 or an acronym tied to your OG platform.

That isnt true since that wont be a thing, since there will be no PC accounts or console account seperation at that point. So the account server will have 1-4 accounts sharing the same name with a # at the end to seperate them. From the point of the merger people wanting to play WF through consoles will just log in with their WF account. If they currently have 4 and want shared progress they'll need to decide which account will be the parent and from that point on all other accounts are gone, and from that point on they log on with the account info tied to the parent. Likely they'll need to link it to each console for automatic logins etc. So if someone currently has an account on each with the same name and then merge there will only ever be 1 account with that specific name, yet it will still have a pointless number tied to it.

Which wont be a thing, since from the start they've said there will be a merger of accounts, which is why this has taken so long to get working so no one ends up losing progress, purchases and so on upon the merger. So changing names will from that point on cost plat and be limited to available names for WF accounts and nothing else. And those that chose not to merge will just have 4 seperate WF accounts, but bound by the same rules from that point on when it comes to purchases etc. including name changes, since their WF name is the one that will be displayed after that day.

[Nekomian]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That isnt true since that wont be a thing, since there will be no PC accounts or console account seperation at that point. So the account server will have 1-4 accounts sharing the same name with a # at the end to seperate them.

This assumes all accounts across all platforms will be merged into one giant "server" or point to each other, when they might just remain separate entities each with their own exclusive setups and just allow migrations / duplication between them as necessary (since this is much easier to maintain existing schemas). This is why I mentioned new builds too, like iOS or Android, because those would be on separate servers that are compliant with that platform's standards or needs, which may differ per platform. It also helps distribute server load better, as a side effect. Merging them all together or having to do frequent lookups on every single server at once (i.e. distinct constraints on 200+ million rows) would be a performance nightmare at the scale / size of Warframe. The existing "/profile" command is probably the extent that works well enough since it's just reads and not updates (and is also broken atm I believe if viewing a profile's achievements or certain stats on another platform).

I'm not sure they'd require email sign-ins on console (breaking the authentication that console accounts already have, or if a user has multiple accounts under one email how that would even function) or require plat name changes on those platforms either, but we'll see what approach they take on that I suppose. I think the main reason it's taken so long is due to parity (having everything function the same on all systems, and being the same build) and certain in-game systems like clans and friends not being initially set up to work with this, as well as figuring out exactly how account migrations should occur or be handled (i.e. if all accounts have a weapon do you get it all those times or just keep one, how do you handle NW progress or syndicate ranks, etc.).

All I know is that if they start enforcing unique account names (which won't be truly unique constraints as is since you can have 1 - 4 shared names) with mergers and all platforms it's going to get messy, because you've just more than doubled the data you have to look through for this to avoid collisions or duplicates. It would be easier to just have each platform remain on its own respective servers and enforce constraints there, with migrations / syncs occurring to other servers on a need-be basis as players link accounts per service. It might still need to check for discriminators on them, but that's way easier than some variable length username across every single server (or combined accounts) each time a new account or name change is made.

All of this is honestly just speculative until they announce their plans though, as there's multiple ways to do this that could work and each has their own problems and solutions. Whatever they decide to do, I hardly think the three numbers appended to the account name are a bother.

[DstroyR_Prime]

8 часов назад, pinkxblack сказал:

why you keep saying WARFRAME is an open-beta free testing game which is NOT, the game is an official product (money maker) and just achieve 10 years lately, i dont even know what your point is? like dont talk just take it if you trying to say... and im not just got here buddy. =)

OMG. Just answer me, do you ever read Warframe users agreement? By the way, DE directly awares here: "if you disagree with this conditions in any point, our product not for you". Even your account not yours in fact, cause DE directly claimed their right to do anything with users accounts without any law or financial responsible before users. No guarantees there. Or use this product as it is, or just delete your account with all affilated data. Well, right to delete your account it is your only real right, claimed by DE in users agreement terms. In law coordinates, any of your claims, the right to which is not provided for by the terms of this agreement, is untenable and can only be considered a wish, but not a guide to action on the part of the service provider.
The essence of the user agreement is that the developers do not promise you anything, do not guarantee anything, and do not owe you anything, and you completely agree with this when you register on the site and download the game. Otherwise, you do not register and download the game. The third is excluded here, and any court will proceed from the terms of the user agreement, and not from the amount that you donated to the free project during 10 years of using the services. This is not about how we would like it to be, but about how it works. Without hard feelings, just ugly true.

[Hobie-wan]

I'm not big on the numbers being there either, but the length the OP has stretched out this thread arguing with others explaining why it exists is amusing. It's not that big of a deal.

[(PSN)MaistBitPollen]

dont know where people are seeing these numbers but surely breaking down over it is going to far :) seems like the epic games, riot and discord system where you only need the numbers when adding people and other than that its hidden away and changes nothing

 

[Hobie-wan]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MaistBitPollen said:

dont know where people are seeing these numbers but surely breaking down over it is going to far :) seems like the epic games, riot and discord system where you only need the numbers when adding people and other than that its hidden away and changes nothing

 

When you look at someone's profile it's at the top after their name. Also IIRC it shows in friends and recent players next to names. Now that we have cross clan stuff it also shows next to the clan name on someone's first profile page. Now that I've shared that information with you, hopefully you are able to see it, yet still move on without a meltdown.

[Hexerin]

8 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

When you look at someone's profile it's at the top after their name. Also IIRC it shows in friends and recent players next to names. Now that we have cross clan stuff it also shows next to the clan name on someone's first profile page. Now that I've shared that information with you, hopefully you are able to see it, yet still move on without a meltdown.

Yea, it's really not a big deal. I do like the suggestions I've seen brought up in this thread though, of having the discriminator be made into superscript.

Hexerin^#771 and Blood Ravens Clan^#288 would both look a lot better.

Spoiler

It doesn't show up in the friends list, nor recent players lists, however.

Spoiler

Nor does it show up on the clan list.

Spoiler

Lastly, it doesn't show up in the squad list.

It also obviously doesn't show up in missions.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Hexerin

[pinkxblack]

On 2023-11-05 at 8:33 PM, DstroyR_Prime said:

OMG. Just answer me, do you ever read Warframe users agreement? By the way, DE directly awares here: "if you disagree with this conditions in any point, our product not for you". Even your account not yours in fact, cause DE directly claimed their right to do anything with users accounts without any law or financial responsible before users. No guarantees there. Or use this product as it is, or just delete your account with all affilated data. Well, right to delete your account it is your only real right, claimed by DE in users agreement terms. In law coordinates, any of your claims, the right to which is not provided for by the terms of this agreement, is untenable and can only be considered a wish, but not a guide to action on the part of the service provider.

i know that ok... and even tho im still playing this game doesnt mean i entirely accept those unfair rules. seriously you shouldnt use that as a reason to shut people up and argue with me abouts rights, stop bringing new topics here, focus on the point we are talking about!

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Naroxas44 said:

This assumes all accounts across all platforms will be merged into one giant "server" or point to each other, when they might just remain separate entities each with their own exclusive setups and just allow migrations / duplication between them as necessary (since this is much easier to maintain existing schemas). This is why I mentioned new builds too, like iOS or Android, because those would be on separate servers that are compliant with that platform's standards or needs, which may differ per platform. It also helps distribute server load better, as a side effect. Merging them all together or having to do frequent lookups on every single server at once (i.e. distinct constraints on 200+ million rows) would be a performance nightmare at the scale / size of Warframe. The existing "/profile" command is probably the extent that works well enough since it's just reads and not updates (and is also broken atm I believe if viewing a profile's achievements or certain stats on another platform).

I'm not sure they'd require email sign-ins on console (breaking the authentication that console accounts already have, or if a user has multiple accounts under one email how that would even function) or require plat name changes on those platforms either, but we'll see what approach they take on that I suppose. I think the main reason it's taken so long is due to parity (having everything function the same on all systems, and being the same build) and certain in-game systems like clans and friends not being initially set up to work with this, as well as figuring out exactly how account migrations should occur or be handled (i.e. if all accounts have a weapon do you get it all those times or just keep one, how do you handle NW progress or syndicate ranks, etc.).

All I know is that if they start enforcing unique account names (which won't be truly unique constraints as is since you can have 1 - 4 shared names) with mergers and all platforms it's going to get messy, because you've just more than doubled the data you have to look through for this to avoid collisions or duplicates. It would be easier to just have each platform remain on its own respective servers and enforce constraints there, with migrations / syncs occurring to other servers on a need-be basis as players link accounts per service. It might still need to check for discriminators on them, but that's way easier than some variable length username across every single server (or combined accounts) each time a new account or name change is made.

All of this is honestly just speculative until they announce their plans though, as there's multiple ways to do this that could work and each has their own problems and solutions. Whatever they decide to do, I hardly think the three numbers appended to the account name are a bother.

It isnt assumptions though, since it is what they've said will happen. And it is up to each player to merge or not. The way they've worded it on Twitter etc. implies it is one account you use on all platforms once cross save is implemented. What will happen is very likely all non-PC accounts getting converted to WF accounts that are practically "PC accounts", after which each player will decide if they want to merge them or not. Practically how it work in D4.

It being up to 4 accounts just linked with cross progression would be a mess, since you'd practically run into the risk where a player is seen with up to 4 different names depending on where they log in from if the username is tied to the platform and not the game. And being to able to change that on the platforms while not being able to do it without plat on PC would go against their unification of all plat purchases. Even Tennogen will get unified, which likely will mean no more Tennogen for plat for console players.