Trinity NEEDS Buffs

[theawesomecrispy]

Trinity is such a good warframe and I love her abilities so much, but there are a lot of problems she has caused by a bygone era of Warframe.

 

Passive: Trinity's passive is arguably one of the worst in the entire game. With Vazarin giving you multiple instant revives and Arbitration not even allowing you to heal a downed ally, it can do nothing in 99% of the games played as Trinity. If her passive would allow you to PASSIVELY revive enemies in your affinity range without needing to stand there, it would be such a big improvement, even if it still wouldn't do much in the majority of missions played, it'd be a heck of a lot better than how it is now.

Well of Life: This ability is awkward to use as enemies are invincible when marked. The life steal even with 200%+ ability strength is honestly just not very much. I subsume this ability on almost every Trinity build except for when I'm running disruption for the demolyst stall.

Energy Vampire: The duration of this needs to be reduced significantly. Running any amount of duration makes using Energy Vampire take ages to get the energy you need. It might be a bit of a longshot, but I feel the radius of the energy pulses should be increased to account for players not staying within spitting distance of the enemy for the entire duration, and the amount of energy should be slightly increased with the base ability only giving 25 energy per pulse.

Link: To start off, any build using 1 or more corrupted mods can neuter this ability's usability. Low range makes you need to be extremely close to get the damage from it, and low duration makes it require a ton of energy to keep up as well as needing to keep casting it. The BIGGEST problem with this ability is that it only marks 3 enemies at once which is an absolute joke with the dozens of enemies being grouped up not getting effected by Abating Link's pitiful cap of 3 linked enemies at once. Link should have a cap either 7-10 or just remove it all together.

Blessing: The main issue I have with Blessing comes with it's augment: Champion's Blessing. This augment should make it so ANY healing (including shields) from Trinity increases her critical chance. The fact that Champion's Blessing only works on healing actual health and not also from shields makes it extremely difficult to keep this effect up, and even when the opportunity arises, so many arcanes and Warframes can keep their health topped up that you don't really get the chance to get this effect.

[Raarsi]

1 hour ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Trinity's passive is arguably one of the worst in the entire game.

Inaros would like a word, especially since his provides almost no benefit of any sort is actually more of a hindrance.  I actually use Well of Life on Inaros because it's one of the better alternatives for on-demand healing for his massive health pool compared to what else he has.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with most of this.  Trinity is fun (especially for eidolons), but she could definitely use more tweaking for multifunctional support like we see with more modern defensive support frames.

[SDGDen]

no. the hell. she doesnt.

she has 93.75% DR built into her kit, a full heal whenever she wants for HER ENTIRE TEAM, practically infinite energy and full-team status immunity plus a way for teammates to heal themselves. her only mediocre thing is her passive, which is still better than many other passives (looking at you, rhino and loki)

as for well of life, you get passively healed for standing near it, and it deals 10% percentile damage whenever a status effect is blocked by the ability, the range aint small either. 15 meters radius by default.

for energy vampire... just shoot the target? when it dies it emits the rest of it's pulses all at once. it's ALWAYS better to kill the EV target if possible. 25 energy per pulse is fine, that's 100 energy PER 50 ENERGY ABILITY CAST. 

link isn't the only ability being neutered by range. well of life and energy vampire also get screwed by range. you need range on trinity. same for duration for her 1, 3 and 4. don't make it sound like her 3's the only one that suffers from those two stats being low. the tether number is likely capped low because of the risk of trinity becoming a room-nuke on denser maps (just get shot by a bombard and all the enemies linked to you fall over) 

as for champion's blessing: it's not the only effect that specifies health damage, it's a risk/reward situation. to make it easier to trigger you can use combat discipline or play with inaros or nidus in your party. or for a VERY scary combo: nekros + trinity. that combination results in both being able to keep their 4 augments up constantly. 

[Numerounius]

I don't think she needs buffs that badly and is actually a good frame. Sure she is underpowered but I'd say only a smidgen.

3 hours ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Passive: Trinity's passive is arguably one of the worst in the entire game. With Vazarin giving you multiple instant revives and Arbitration not even allowing you to heal a downed ally, it can do nothing in 99% of the games played as Trinity. If her passive would allow you to PASSIVELY revive enemies in your affinity range without needing to stand there, it would be such a big improvement, even if it still wouldn't do much in the majority of missions played, it'd be a heck of a lot better than how it is now.

What allowed me to get cheater of death was the introduction of archon hunts where you have to revive allies in order to keep them in the mission. The range buff and revive buff don't come in that often but it is there though. If I'd change anything about it, I would change an aspect of it so that it can still be used in solo play and not be influenced on the reliance of others. I'd say an augment that gives you an effect like say +50% CD if you haven't revived an ally within the last 90 seconds or so, it would still keep the original passive while giving a boost if you want it.

3 hours ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Well of Life: This ability is awkward to use as enemies are invincible when marked. The life steal even with 200%+ ability strength is honestly just not very much. I subsume this ability on almost every Trinity build except for when I'm running disruption for the demolyst stall.

It actually is pretty useful on Inaros where it can heal it back up to full which there is other problems with that statement.

The problem is that life-steal is seen more of as a secondary effect now and for it to be really effective it either needs to be instant (see, blessing) or provide something extra to be a boon (see, gloom). Yeah this is one that I would change completely.

3 hours ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Energy Vampire: The duration of this needs to be reduced significantly. Running any amount of duration makes using Energy Vampire take ages to get the energy you need. It might be a bit of a longshot, but I feel the radius of the energy pulses should be increased to account for players not staying within spitting distance of the enemy for the entire duration, and the amount of energy should be slightly increased with the base ability only giving 25 energy per pulse.

I'm sorry, you want the radius to be . . . increased??? Have you seen how big the range is in comparison to say, gestures wildly at a hundred other abilities? It is comically large which in turns also increases the ability range when used on it even more. And I reckon probably has the largest ability range that can be created (outside of affinity-based ones). And while energy is much easier to come by this ability still has a place providing energy, it allows me to do a nifty thermal sunder spam build in ESO, which is room-wide and still not as big as EV, or just constantly spamming it to stay topped off.

This does not need to be changed at all.

3 hours ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Link: To start off, any build using 1 or more corrupted mods can neuter this ability's usability. Low range makes you need to be extremely close to get the damage from it, and low duration makes it require a ton of energy to keep up as well as needing to keep casting it. The BIGGEST problem with this ability is that it only marks 3 enemies at once which is an absolute joke with the dozens of enemies being grouped up not getting effected by Abating Link's pitiful cap of 3 linked enemies at once. Link should have a cap either 7-10 or just remove it all together.

Second worst ability on her (third if you count passive). For me what I hate about it is that you lose the buff after they die and that is the end of your ability. When I initially started theory-crafting for it seeing that it can providing status immunity which in turn means knockdown reduction means that it should be easy to not be knockdown city but if you fire a single AOE shot that KOs the three enemies, then on the second shot you just knocked yourself down by killing said enemies from one shot ago.

I think this is one where changing the effect isn't needed but changing how to get it could be nice. The suggested changes here are: Making 3 enemies cap based on strength, auto-link to new enemies once the previous one dies or goes out of range.

3 hours ago, theawesomecrispy said:

Blessing: The main issue I have with Blessing comes with it's augment: Champion's Blessing. This augment should make it so ANY healing (including shields) from Trinity increases her critical chance. The fact that Champion's Blessing only works on healing actual health and not also from shields makes it extremely difficult to keep this effect up, and even when the opportunity arises, so many arcanes and Warframes can keep their health topped up that you don't really get the chance to get this effect.

I mean fair but champion's blessing was already built for modern Warframe standards so doubt this is likely. Most others complain about its not-so paltry 75% DR which is actually really good since it can be hard to come by at times so I am glad that you don't bring this up there. I think that this ability is fine since it not only keeps health topped up but also shields so it serves a purpose that the vast majority of others don't.

 

So, yes there is some problematic areas of her kit. See, passive, Link, Well of Life but she also has some stellar areas in her kit, see, augments, blessing, EV.

[NinjaZeku]

I mainly want Link to gain a large buff to its base duration (currently, at base, you have to cast it 5 times a minute, wat)
and / or to gain a hold option for a "conditional drain" mode, only draining Energy when linked up,
while of course still allowing Energy gains from Energy Vampire and all other sources.

Although indeed limited given "modern" enemy density, linking up to only 3 enemies I still like because it fits her name lol,
maybe have the linked enemies emit a radial effect (not least for the Augment's Armor reduction),
and take a page out of Mallet's handbook for making the enemy damage redirection more effective.

Lastly, giving the proc protection a ~1 second grace period before it turns off once no longer linked, would be neat
(getting caught in your own AoE when you kill the last, nearby enemy ... feels bad man).

[Birdframe_Prime]

Look... here's the problem, OP...

Trinity's kit? Has the problem of having one of the most powerful self-sustain casts in the game. One that takes effect over a massive area, team-wide, and is simply 'You are at full health and shields now, as long as this ability can affect you'. She also has the function of gaining massive damage reduction on herself for tanking, and can supply near infinite energy to her team as long as there is an enemy. And because of how those different abilities function people have, for years, been finding ways to completely break the game with her.

For example, did you know there's a build that lets Energy Vampire kill any enemy of any level in the game as long as there's a couple of viral stacks on them? Best used in low-density, high level scenarios like Steel Path Rathuum or high-stakes Index, where the individual enemies can be tricky. But it works.

That said, she does also have the problem of this kit not actually doing all that much outside of those powerful things.

What Trinity needs is a rebalance.

A rework that takes some of the power of her 4, 3 and 2, and then spreads it more evenly into her kit. Giving her a chance to have other functions that work better against enemies and in the situations we face in the game.

A few threads back, somebody suggested turning Trin's Blessing into a massive team-wide buff instead of a heal, so it allowed everyone a kind of... 'hero's moment' buff. The trick of this would be that it would be the only team-wide buff that affected direct Warframe base stats, so that mods would amplify the effect on top. You could have the regular version affect the base stats of Health, Armour and Shield, but also increase Shield Regen and reduce Regen Delay, so people become tankier, and then on top you could grant a bonus to a given stat like Strength, Duration, Range or Efficiency. With the Augment you could trade the ability stat effect for a weapon stat effect, granting the crit chance instead (which would be great for playing with people that min-max some of their builds with a dump stat and don't want that buffed).

And then with that, you would need to put the health, energy and Link effects into something a little more powerful. And we could talk about those abilities for hours, too ^^

But that's the kind of thing that Trin would require. Taking one of her abilities and turning it into something else, powerful, but something else. Then you can put the rest of her kit through a more basic rework.

Like they did with Hydroid, but instead of taking an ability that was really unfortunate in the current game to replace it with something that you could use for a damage boost and a bit of tanking, you would have to take an ability that is incredibly powerful in the current game and replace it with something that you could use for tanking and a damage boost...

[sunderthefirmament]

11 hours ago, SDGDen said:

no. the hell. she doesnt.

She absolutely does, but not the way the OP is suggesting.  Yeah, Trinity's abilities can do a lot.  But they're all incredibly clunky and have short durations.  This is problematic because they are also all full-body casts that lock Trinity in place.  Making matters worse, Trinity needs basically every moddable stat, so you'll never get high enough duration to matter if you also need to invest in strength, range, and even casting speed.  

 

I wouldn't give Trinity a full rework.  I'd make a few changes instead:

1. Well of Life: upper body 1h cast, adds +X seconds to existing Link and Blessing durations upon expiration
2. Energy Vampire: upper body 1h cast
3. Link: upper body 1h cast, double or triple base duration, add +X seconds to Link duration when a Linked enemy dies
4. Blessing: upper body 1h cast, double or triple base duration

 

Trinity's biggest problem is how she needs to constantly be casting her abilities.  Try her out in the Steel Path Circuit.  She'd be a great fit, except you can't really do anything except spam abilities.  There's no time to even attack.  The second someone's shields go down, you have to press 4.  The second your Link goes down, you have to press 3 (so, like, once every 10 seconds or so).  If you want to spam as much as you need to survive and keep your idiot teammates alive, you better also find time to hit an enemy with Energy Vampire.  And then the 1 is a Helminth slot, so do with that what you will.  Every cast she has is full body and stops her from moving, attacking, or reloading.  Every buff she has is absurdly low in duration, requiring constant maintenance.

 

Trinity just really needs a QOL pass.

[--UMBRA--X3ntra]

Not only Trinity needs buffs or rework, there are others obsolete frames that very few will still play rarely with them including Trinity/Banshee/Valkyr/Oberon/Equinox/Nezha/Nyx/Inaros. Yarelli for example have a good passive but only works for secondary which isn't that worth, survivability its bad and she's classed to C tier which is true, was on hype when was released but then people stopped using her. Its DE job to rework classes and make players playing with those again getting diversity on missions. There are so many that playing WISP Prime now that you could easely find atleast one on Onslaugh / Mission, encountered many times full squad of Wisp which makes no sense, the one with highest Strength win and other are fillers.

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

On 2023-11-19 at 1:16 AM, theawesomecrispy said:

Trinity is such a good warframe and I love her abilities so much, but there are a lot of problems she has caused by a bygone era of Warframe.

 

Passive: Trinity's passive is arguably one of the worst in the entire game. With Vazarin giving you multiple instant revives and Arbitration not even allowing you to heal a downed ally, it can do nothing in 99% of the games played as Trinity. If her passive would allow you to PASSIVELY revive enemies in your affinity range without needing to stand there, it would be such a big improvement, even if it still wouldn't do much in the majority of missions played, it'd be a heck of a lot better than how it is now.

Well of Life: This ability is awkward to use as enemies are invincible when marked. The life steal even with 200%+ ability strength is honestly just not very much. I subsume this ability on almost every Trinity build except for when I'm running disruption for the demolyst stall.

Energy Vampire: The duration of this needs to be reduced significantly. Running any amount of duration makes using Energy Vampire take ages to get the energy you need. It might be a bit of a longshot, but I feel the radius of the energy pulses should be increased to account for players not staying within spitting distance of the enemy for the entire duration, and the amount of energy should be slightly increased with the base ability only giving 25 energy per pulse.

Link: To start off, any build using 1 or more corrupted mods can neuter this ability's usability. Low range makes you need to be extremely close to get the damage from it, and low duration makes it require a ton of energy to keep up as well as needing to keep casting it. The BIGGEST problem with this ability is that it only marks 3 enemies at once which is an absolute joke with the dozens of enemies being grouped up not getting effected by Abating Link's pitiful cap of 3 linked enemies at once. Link should have a cap either 7-10 or just remove it all together.

Blessing: The main issue I have with Blessing comes with it's augment: Champion's Blessing. This augment should make it so ANY healing (including shields) from Trinity increases her critical chance. The fact that Champion's Blessing only works on healing actual health and not also from shields makes it extremely difficult to keep this effect up, and even when the opportunity arises, so many arcanes and Warframes can keep their health topped up that you don't really get the chance to get this effect.

I love Trinity too. Frankly the only thing I would change is her Link’s duration. Other than that she’s great and if you play around with various things she can do monstrous damage while maintaining great survivability. I suppose she could do with a better passive. Maybe -50% status duration when she gets hit by a status effect, or a 30% chance to not take a damage over time status. Champions blessing is fine imo. You can always run combat discipline to artificially lower your health. Some people combine this with a bleeding key already

[AsffluffyZ]

On 2023-11-23 at 5:05 AM, X3ntra said:

Not only Trinity needs buffs or rework, there are others obsolete frames that very few will still play rarely with them including Trinity/Banshee/Valkyr/Oberon/Equinox/Nezha/Nyx/Inaros

Oberon actually functions quite well in the current game. Any buffs for him would all in all be qol like basic stat improvements or less energy when healing others/no drain when healing pets or allies.

 My build uses hunter adrenaline, adaptation, streamline, phoenix renewal, primed continuity, umbral fiber+intensify, quick thinking, power drift, and growing power.