Add ways to obtain umbra forma

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 hour ago, Aruquae said:

Pfft, I said arithmetic when I meant Algebra. I guess you use it in both though. College Arithmetic exists, thankfully I’m not taking that class. 

How are you not taking Math, do you not plan to go to college?

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Percent chance to deal a multiplier of damage. Yes, they're crit weapons.

It's also what makes the Zariman incarnons so obscene. You build entirely for status, and get godly crit stats for doing so.

Phenmor has 20% cc 200% cd, how is it a crit weapon? Its main feature is 2k% damage on non crit hits, otherwise its a garbage item.

Edited January 12 by NorthernDarkIceSoul

[Deadoon]

Just now, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Phenmor has 20% cc 200% cd, how is it a crit weapon? Its main feature is 2k% damage on non crit hits, otherwise its a garbage item.

Read what he said again. "You build entirely for status, and get godly crit stats for doing so."

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 minute ago, Deadoon said:

Read what he said again. "You build entirely for status, and get godly crit stats for doing so."

How do you get crit from modding for status?

[Hexerin]

4 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

How do you get crit from modding for status?

9 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Its main feature is 2k% damage on non crit hits

 

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

1 minute ago, Hexerin said:

 

It’s 2k% damage, not crit damage 

[BowserNC]

One of the most useless threads. Deviating from the main point because of our ego and arrogance that someone could have a good opinion. So what you do? Start do pick at it over and over again coming up with excuses and arguments, missing all the points the original post was trying to talk about.

No, in most of the cases, umbra forma and mods are not really that important. Yes, if your build requires it, then yes. Otherwise no. And also, they are NOT overpowered and you can definitely play the game without them. The cry out "you cannot play this game without umbra mods" it's just incompetence then. No offense, but if you think they are that insane, making everything OP, well sorry to spoil you but you're so wrong.

You can get umbra forma from Teshin every 8 weeks, from nightwave, from random devstreams. But if your brain can only proccess the words "you cannot play this game without umbra mods" then you can just ignore everything I wrote here and move on trying to prove me wrong...

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

5 minutes ago, BowserNC said:

One of the most useless threads. Deviating from the main point because of our ego and arrogance that someone could have a good opinion. So what you do? Start do pick at it over and over again coming up with excuses and arguments, missing all the points the original post was trying to talk about.

No, in most of the cases, umbra forma and mods are not really that important. Yes, if your build requires it, then yes. Otherwise no. And also, they are NOT overpowered and you can definitely play the game without them. The cry out "you cannot play this game without umbra mods" it's just incompetence then. No offense, but if you think they are that insane, making everything OP, well sorry to spoil you but you're so wrong.

You can get umbra forma from Teshin every 8 weeks, from nightwave, from random devstreams. But if your brain can only proccess the words "you cannot play this game without umbra mods" then you can just ignore everything I wrote here and move on trying to prove me wrong...

You missed the whole point of this thread which is to add ways to obtain umbra forma. There is too few ways to obtain umbra forma.

[BowserNC]

14 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

You missed the whole point of this thread which is to add ways to obtain umbra forma. There is too few ways to obtain umbra forma.

There is no need for more ways of obtaining umbra forma my guy. It is fine as it is. If you don't like it, we can't do anything about it, because we're fine with it.

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Phenmor is a crit weapon?

No actually, devouring attrition is pure status and raw damage

 

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Percent chance to deal a multiplier of damage. Yes, they're crit weapons.

It's also what makes the Zariman incarnons so obscene. You build entirely for status, and get godly crit stats for doing so.

Well with your logic, anything with crit multipliers is a crit weapon

My phenmor with 0% crit rate is definitely a crit based weapon

57 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

It’s 2k% damage, not crit damage 

Shockingly... I agree
I guess with that same logic anything with a chance that increases damage is crit 
 

[Berzerkules]

On 2024-01-11 at 10:20 AM, Hexerin said:

I see so many people in this thread saying "status builds are godly" or whatever. I invite any of you to show such a build actually beating out a crit build on Steel Path Circulus. Bear in mind, using primers is low end play (it's very slow, only useful if you're new to Steel Path and don't have the fun toys yet) and thus not applicable to this challenge.

I got one for you. 

775 kills in the first 5m15s of SP Circulus. That's about 2.5 kps or 150kpm.

Full status build, one take, kinda trash tiles, not using a primer or trying at all.

I showed you mine, show me yours. Full crit melee build with 2.5kps?

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Why are you saying this to immediately acknowledge in the next paragraph that I have elemental damage from other sources? Please make sense.

Read that next paragraph again maybe? It doesnt matter that you already have elements from other sources, adding it to the weapon aswell would grant you more damage and less diminishing return on every single mod on your weapon practically.

19 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Wrong. I have 240% corrosive from new melee arcane, 200 and something more % corrosive from saryn’s first and 80~ (I guess 160 since I use melee) toxin from saryn’s whip. Why would I add that primed toxin mod for 160% toxin? On top of that, toxin damage is garbage, it’s not corrosive which is good against armor.

But those external sources do not magically turn your stacked crit and base damage into something better than investing in status and innate elemental damage on the weapon.

19 hours ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

You don’t know how to build at all. What’s the point of 440% status chance if the base status chance is 10%? It’s useless, not to mention the lack of AOE and multishot. Primer won’t leave enough status? Have you ever used a primer? One click of bubonico is 14 corrosive and 10 viral AT LEAST, in AOE. Who cares about DoT and how is it even related to this conversation? I don’t use those dumb slash builds anyway.

Since when did Azothane get nerfed to 10% crit? Or did you get a broken one when you bought yours in the cave? Making up numbers to try and help your argument doesnt really make you look any brighter or better at modding. Your weapon comes with 22% status, that means you are roughly 2% from hitting 120% status chance with full combo (which the video shows is practically there at all times and I assume it is your video or that you atleast play similar). That means you are guaranteed a status per hit from your weapon if you equip WW. Which is in addition to Saryns guaranteed (and apparently garbage) Toxin proc. 

I also dont see how AoE and Multishot even comes into the picture. Even with a primer you are killing with a weapon that has no AoE or Multishot, since you need to hit the enemies you waste time on priming anyways. Increasing status and adding elements would increase your overall damage output and give you a high chance to apply slash and/or whatever element you add along with the guaranteed toxin from Lash. So you wouldnt actually need to hit enemies until they die or waste time on priming. 

Have you even looked at how horrible the damage actually is on your build compared to one that doesnt waste stats on diminish return as heavily as you? You probably havent. But here are the comparisons.

Your modding.

Total weapon damage = 583

Avg. Hit = 16056

Sustained = 31844

Modding where Sac Pressure and Sac Steel are replaced with PFS and WW

Total weapon damage = 1891

Avg. Hit = 29085

Sustained = 57685

Modding where Sac Pressure and Sac Steel are replaced with Shocking Touch and WW (stats are rounded down to fit the tiny piece of paper I wrote them down on)

Total weapon damage = 1300

Avg. Hit = 21000

Sustained = 41000

You can even skip CO and go PPP, and still end up with higher damage output than your harshly diminished setup. Doing so would end up with sustained damage sitting in the 36000 range and not caring about primers of any kind.

Now the reason one example uses Shocking Touch is because it would be the most beneficial to Saryn while also dropping Exposure for Influence, since that would give you a constant 20m AoE proc that not only applies whatever elemental status that procs, but also deals the modded damage of that elemental instance. Which means that every hit you land would atleast also deal your Lash damage to every target within 20m, along with potentially either a corrosive (from augment) or electric (shocking touch) hit aswell. And since you play Saryn at high strength and likely have 2 green shards slotted, enemies within 20m likely have full corrosive stacks on them already for those status procs to wreck them.

This also result in the straight up damage lost from exposure wont really be noticable, since for every element status you apply a further damage instance will also occur on the target. So you are already dealing an extra instance of atleast 160% toxin from Lash on every hit you land. If electric also procs you are already ahead compared to exposure and if your augment procs you are lightyears ahead due to your strength modding. While in addition to that also hitting everything else around you, priming them if not killing them directly or through the status DoTs.

 

 

[Skoomaseller]

19 hours ago, BowserNC said:

There is no need for more ways of obtaining umbra forma my guy. It is fine as it is. If you don't like it, we can't do anything about it, because we're fine with it.

except we can, since OP made this thread, and we aren't, because OP made this thread.

not everyone is in agreement, and OP is not the arbitrator of what is and isn't ok, obviously, but to say "it's ok because it's ok" is kinda stupid and doesn't really defeat OP's point that there aren't enough ways to obtain at the very least Umbra Forma bps.

It's offered once every 8 weeks via Teshin, guaranteed. That's about 5 or 6 a year. Nightwave, add 2 or 3. So at most 9 a year. I think that's really not a lot considering the number of Warframes we have, and melee weapons that we have much more of.

Not every build will run an Umbral/Sacrificial mod but it's really still not a lot of Umbral Forma to work with in the first place.

I disagree with OP that umbra mods are soooo op that the game cannot be played without them but they do bring up a valid point about their scarcity.

Edited January 13 by Skoomaseller

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Read that next paragraph again maybe? It doesnt matter that you already have elements from other sources, adding it to the weapon aswell would grant you more damage and less diminishing return on every single mod on your weapon practically.

There is no such thing as "diminishing return" you get exactly what you paid for. Whoever came up with this either didn't know what he was doing or just picked a terrible name, and now you misunderstand what "diminishing return" is referring to. Assuming that you know the correct meaning, how adding EVEN MORE elemental damage will grant me less diminishing return? I already have 600%+ elemental damage. It's going to be the opposite of what you're stating.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But those external sources do not magically turn your stacked crit and base damage into something better than investing in status and innate elemental damage on the weapon.

I already said 200 times that I use a primer. How many times do I need to repeat for you to comprehend this?

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Since when did Azothane get nerfed to 10% crit?

When did I say that Azothane has 10% cc?

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Making up numbers to try and help your argument doesnt really make you look any brighter or better at modding. Your weapon comes with 22% status, that means you are roughly 2% from hitting 120% status chance with full combo (which the video shows is practically there at all times and I assume it is your video or that you atleast play similar). That means you are guaranteed a status per hit from your weapon if you equip WW. Which is in addition to Saryns guaranteed (and apparently garbage) Toxin proc. 

Explain how guaranteed status per hit will increase my DPS, I am very interested.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Have you even looked at how horrible the damage actually is on your build compared to one that doesnt waste stats on diminish return as heavily as you? You probably havent. But here are the comparisons.

Your modding.

Total weapon damage = 583

Avg. Hit = 16056

Sustained = 31844

Modding where Sac Pressure and Sac Steel are replaced with PFS and WW

Total weapon damage = 1891

Avg. Hit = 29085

Sustained = 57685

Modding where Sac Pressure and Sac Steel are replaced with Shocking Touch and WW (stats are rounded down to fit the tiny piece of paper I wrote them down on)

Total weapon damage = 1300

Avg. Hit = 21000

Sustained = 41000

There is no way you are actually trying to argue that my build is low DPS because on overframe it says sustained = 41000. That's blatant trolling.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Now the reason one example uses Shocking Touch is because it would be the most beneficial to Saryn while also dropping Exposure for Influence, since that would give you a constant 20m AoE proc that not only applies whatever elemental status that procs, but also deals the modded damage of that elemental instance. Which means that every hit you land would atleast also deal your Lash damage to every target within 20m, along with potentially either a corrosive (from augment) or electric (shocking touch) hit aswell. And since you play Saryn at high strength and likely have 2 green shards slotted, enemies within 20m likely have full corrosive stacks on them already for those status procs to wreck them.

This also result in the straight up damage lost from exposure wont really be noticable, since for every element status you apply a further damage instance will also occur on the target. So you are already dealing an extra instance of atleast 160% toxin from Lash on every hit you land. If electric also procs you are already ahead compared to exposure and if your augment procs you are lightyears ahead due to your strength modding. While in addition to that also hitting everything else around you, priming them if not killing them directly or through the status DoTs.

These two paragraphs make no sense. I would assume it's something ChatGPT generated, but ChatGPT is literate.

[BowserNC]

23 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

except we can, since OP made this thread, and we aren't, because OP made this thread.

not everyone is in agreement, and OP is not the arbitrator of what is and isn't ok, obviously, but to say "it's ok because it's ok" is kinda stupid and doesn't really defeat OP's point that there aren't enough ways to obtain at the very least Umbra Forma bps.

It's offered once every 8 weeks via Teshin, guaranteed. That's about 5 or 6 a year. Nightwave, add 2 or 3. So at most 9 a year. I think that's really not a lot considering the number of Warframes we have, and melee weapons that we have much more of.

Not every build will run an Umbral/Sacrificial mod but it's really still not a lot of Umbral Forma to work with in the first place.

I disagree with OP that umbra mods are soooo op that the game cannot be played without them but they do bring up a valid point about their scarcity.

I am fine with it. But yes we could possibly get a couple of more ways to get it. However it should not make umbra forma common, it still should be rare. 

[AshenHaze]

On 2024-01-08 at 3:44 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I'm so done with this game, I swear. I have at least 5 unfinished builds just because there is literally no way to obtain umbra forma in this game, and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods. Add way to buy umbra forma for plat, it doesn't make sense that I can buy other formas for plat but not umbra forma.

I play the game without umbra mods.

I make stuff like maximized mobility builds or jank builds and see how often I can still get in the higher damage categories.

Sometimes I wonder why I never see a lot of new, interesting mod ideas and folk like OP are probably the answer why that development is so slow.

Look, I'm a Johnny not a Spike, mostly a Vorthos though. Give me more "peculiar mods" any day of the week.

[Skoomaseller]

46 minutes ago, BowserNC said:

I am fine with it. But yes we could possibly get a couple of more ways to get it. However it should not make umbra forma common, it still should be rare. 

if it's not as ubiquitous as forma BPs, yet not as scarce as they are now, that should be enough. something like an in-between of those.

[BowserNC]

2 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

if it's not as ubiquitous as forma BPs, yet not as scarce as they are now, that should be enough. something like an in-between of those.

Hmmm I was thinking, if they add something like archon hunts / boss fights in the future maybe they should add a rare drop of umbra forma there. This is just a random thought I had right now. Or maybe the 60 eyes Effervo? 

[SneakyErvin]

45 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

There is no such thing as "diminishing return" you get exactly what you paid for. Whoever came up with this either didn't know what he was doing or just picked a terrible name, and now you misunderstand what "diminishing return" is referring to. Assuming that you know the correct meaning, how adding EVEN MORE elemental damage will grant me less diminishing return? I already have 600%+ elemental damage. It's going to be the opposite of what you're stating.

There is such a thing since you get less total damage out of it in the end. More elemental damage instead of basic damage will give you more since the elemental mods are multiplicative on your already modded values while the basic damage mod only increases damage based on your base stat of the weapon. It also adds a potential further element if you want to make better use out of your CO. Basic damage is the least valueble stat you can use on the item in question. Status chance being the one that will improve your damage output the most. You can even check on overframe how little you get out of something like CO between the different builds. In your build the benefit of CO brings around 30% increase to overall damage, with the replacements I mentioned it will instead be an overall damage increase for the build by 300-ish percent. Which show exactly what people are talking about here, diminishing return on the stats you use. 

53 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I already said 200 times that I use a primer. How many times do I need to repeat for you to comprehend this?

Which in itself is a waste. In addition to that, changing the modding on your weapon to gain more damage overall does not prevent you from still using a primer, even though it is a waste in the content you showed in the video, since it is only level 230-ish.

56 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

When did I say that Azothane has 10% cc?

Oh I ment status since you implied melee have 10% status, my bad for typing crit. So again, no melee doesnt have some mysterious 10% status chance. I currently run weapons with 40-ish percent status as a baseline before WW is added. But 20% is enough to hit 100% status chance.

1 hour ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Explain how guaranteed status per hit will increase my DPS, I am very interested.

Due to DoT ticks that come from several potential sources depending on which elemental mods you decide to use. Baffling that you even ask that when sustained damage already show it to you in numbers.

1 hour ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

There is no way you are actually trying to argue that my build is low DPS because on overframe it says sustained = 41000. That's blatant trolling.

But it is low dps compared to the other builds, significantly lower. And your build does 31800 sustained, not 41000, the 41k build is one that uses the other mod setup that doesnt suffer from terrible diminishing return. So will deal more aswell when all other statuses are applied ontop of that. That is if you stick with Exposure to limit yourself to single target for some reason on the frame that is more or less optimal for Influence. If you go for the pure damage approach your own build only deals around 60% of the one that uses WW+PFS instead of the two sac mods. That is 40% less damage. And you deal around 25% less than the build designed with Influence in mind, which then further leaves your build behind due to how that arcane works.

1 hour ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

These two paragraphs make no sense. I would assume it's something ChatGPT generated, but ChatGPT is literate.

Or you simply dont understand how Melee Influence works, even when explained here.

 

 

 

 

[Skoomaseller]

Just now, BowserNC said:

Hmmm I was thinking, if they add something like archon hunts / boss fights in the future maybe they should add a rare drop of umbra forma there. This is just a random thought I had right now. Or maybe the 60 eyes Effervo? 

Nah not the 60 eyes. The novelty of that boss is that it's meant to just be done to get a "trophy", the Manus Sumdali. Tacking on a repeatable farm to it will just quickly sour the experience.

They could just add it to a specific vendor, or as a rotation reward in an endless mission. #*!% it, maybe put it in arbitrations as a possible rotation C reward, why not.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

On 2024-01-13 at 6:20 PM, SneakyErvin said:

since it is only level 230-ish.

where I am supposed to get higher level mobs? sitting in arbitrations for 72 hours?

 

On 2024-01-13 at 6:20 PM, SneakyErvin said:

There is such a thing since you get less total damage out of it in the end. More elemental damage instead of basic damage will give you more since the elemental mods are multiplicative on your already modded values while the basic damage mod only increases damage based on your base stat of the weapon. It also adds a potential further element if you want to make better use out of your CO. Basic damage is the least valueble stat you can use on the item in question. Status chance being the one that will improve your damage output the most. You can even check on overframe how little you get out of something like CO between the different builds. In your build the benefit of CO brings around 30% increase to overall damage, with the replacements I mentioned it will instead be an overall damage increase for the build by 300-ish percent. Which show exactly what people are talking about here, diminishing return on the stats you use. 

Which in itself is a waste. In addition to that, changing the modding on your weapon to gain more damage overall does not prevent you from still using a primer, even though it is a waste in the content you showed in the video, since it is only level 230-ish.

Oh I ment status since you implied melee have 10% status, my bad for typing crit. So again, no melee doesnt have some mysterious 10% status chance. I currently run weapons with 40-ish percent status as a baseline before WW is added. But 20% is enough to hit 100% status chance.

Due to DoT ticks that come from several potential sources depending on which elemental mods you decide to use. Baffling that you even ask that when sustained damage already show it to you in numbers.

But it is low dps compared to the other builds, significantly lower. And your build does 31800 sustained, not 41000, the 41k build is one that uses the other mod setup that doesnt suffer from terrible diminishing return. So will deal more aswell when all other statuses are applied ontop of that. That is if you stick with Exposure to limit yourself to single target for some reason on the frame that is more or less optimal for Influence. If you go for the pure damage approach your own build only deals around 60% of the one that uses WW+PFS instead of the two sac mods. That is 40% less damage. And you deal around 25% less than the build designed with Influence in mind, which then further leaves your build behind due to how that arcane works.

Basically your point is to use Melee Influence instead of a primer?

[Beowulf22]

On 2024-01-08 at 5:13 AM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

And what else am I supposed to stick into my melee? Status mods? Laughable

Debatable for warframe umbral mods, however for melees there is almost no reason to use Sac Pressure because Prime Pressured Point is just.. better. Almost all of my builds for melee end up being rank 1 60/60 mods for viral, attack speed, PPP and misc stuff depending on the weapon and it works well into steel path for me.

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

2 minutes ago, Beowulf22 said:

Debatable for warframe umbral mods, however for melees there is almost no reason to use Sac Pressure because Prime Pressured Point is just.. better. Almost all of my builds for melee end up being rank 1 60/60 mods for viral, attack speed, PPP and misc stuff depending on the weapon and it works well into steel path for me.

"works well into steel path" doesn't mean much, mobs there are too weak

[Merkranire]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:44 PM, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

I'm so done with this game, I swear. I have at least 5 unfinished builds just because there is literally no way to obtain umbra forma in this game, and umbra mods are literally so overpowered that you cannot play this game without umbra mods. Add way to buy umbra forma for plat, it doesn't make sense that I can buy other formas for plat but not umbra forma.

I think you’re overselling the importance of Umbra mods. I’ve got some Umbra forma just kicking around because I haven’t found a burning need to apply them