Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[Debobin]

Either toggle or tap/hold please, rebalance is fine

[AnFangs]

An ability being inconsistent and unreliable sucks. Toggle.

 

And if toggle, make sure players are actually getting 100% of the displayed buff amount unlike its current version where the displayed buff percentage isn't necessarily the actual buff percentage you're receiving.

[SupremeNasarchi]

Make it work well in open zones and albrecht's labs. Just do not make it weak in night in plains, im still wanting to hunt eidolons 😂😂

[Robertita3571]

I think the easiest way to do It is by making her 1 light her up. It would be similar to make it tap hold without having to nerf her 3 on the Helminth.

And you want to have the 1 active all the time so it's just convenient.

[Xzorn]

Personally I would take a page from Equinox though done a bit better.

Toggle on Eclipse is ideal but I feel it can be taken further to improve Mirage who was once amazing.

• Hall of Mirrors is a very basic skill that would be nice to have alternate effects based on Light/Dark.
• Sleight of Hand was never great. The reworked version also didn't work right with it's taunt effect. Now it's esp hurt due to Blast status.
• After LoS blind nerf Prism was mostly a great way to kill yourself.

I would suggest alternate or tweaked versions of each skill based on dark/light. This is already a quasi interaction but it can be better.

• Add the ability to refresh Hall of Mirrors.
• Hall of Mirrors Light. Good as is. Hall of Mirrors Dark Clones have no damage bonus but each will absorb an enemy hit / radial damage.
• Sleight of Hand Light Affected by ability range for spacing. Blinds enemies as usual. Dark procs Radiation status. Both forms taunt.
• Prism needs a massive cast speed boost and velocity increase. Light would be fine with those changes. Dark surrounds Mirage Dealing less to no damage but reducing damage enemies deal by a determined %.
• Reducing Eclipse Damage output I feel justifies and increase in the augment's range.

[MrHeolsen]

I like the idea of it being tied to using different abilities rather than lighting. (toggle is just boring imo)

For example the light buff building up while your 4th is up and the dark buff building up while it isn't.

Something along those lines would be cool i think.

[TioHunt]

1 - Work as is kinda
2 - Tap/Hold to summon ball of light or a mini blackhole or whatever, this is capped at x% effectiveness
or add to mirage passive that the effectiveness of light/dark stuff works x% better on her

Should be easy enough to implement, solve all the problems and gives the ability to nerf the helminth if it's necessary

[Arafek]

Tap/Hold is probably the least amount of effort (tap for dmg, hold for dmg reduction, or vice-versa), but a toggle on tap is also fine, or even make it a channeled ability to balance it out. I'm up for all of them.

[-CFW.Magic-]

I have issues with it being based on environmental light as it makes your hardware and game settings part of the Warframe modding, which I don't think is good. Decoupling it would be a start, perhaps only activating one aspect depending if you are in light or shadow. The thought I have is to have the ability oscillate between the two, as the damage increase decays, the damage reduction increases, as the damage reduction decreases, the damage strength increases.

Mirage herself can shift the direction of the needle by casting abilities. Perhaps Sleight of Hand/Eclipse generates "darkness" and Prism/Hall of Mirrors generate "light", the direction of the needle doesn't change, but Mirage can better upkeep the damage bonus whereas other frames cannot. Either make helminth eclipse only work at 50% (so always half the maximum damage bonus and damage reduction) or leave it at other frames cannot adjust the meter with their abilities.

If environmental light based features had to remain, how fast the meter changes depending if you are in light or darkness.

make it generate a font of light from the ground and have everyone stand in it for a damage boost like a certain other caster from certain other space shooter

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Juice a dit :

We can change Eclipse to work more reliably, but may need to reduce its effectiveness when used as a Helminth ability by reducing its power, duration, or other factors.

• Eclipse is already the 2nd most popular Helminth ability, so removing its main barrier to entry (reliability) would mean a rebalance is in order. This effectiveness reduction would not affect the ability for Mirage, only when applied from the Helminth.

 

I think a tap/hold mechanic is the better thing. It will work much better for Mirage, that really deserves a more reliable ability.

The Helminth ability can be "nerfed" with no problems : the shadow buff is already capped to 75% on the Helminth version anyway.

Thanks a lot.

[Enxchiol]

I believe in any way the lighting thing is not worth the effort and dev time, maintaining an entire system just for one ability. 

An idea I have is that eclipse would grant the DR buff while you are on the ground and the damage buff while you are airborne, also ties in a bit to her secondary theme as being an acrobatic/movement frame. For the helminth the damage buff value could be reduced even more.

[DragonShone]

12 minutes ago, KnightmareFrame said:

Make it like Garuda's passive + Toggle

Tap for Damage: kill enemies build up damage buff
Hold for DR: take damage build up dmg reduction

this is good but just 1 active for bouth buffs, tap and hold hard to track what you have 

[Pixeleon]

Toggle

[EffEssEmm]

3 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

Eclipse is already the 2nd most popular Helminth ability, so removing its main barrier to entry (reliability) would mean a rebalance is in order. This effectiveness reduction would not affect the ability for Mirage, only when applied from the Helminth.

I'm incredibly curious to know if this still applies when excluding volt and volt prime from these stats. I can't see a reason outside of eidolons where eclipse is more useful than, for example, roar or xata's whisper.

Having said this, tap hold would be great, agreed.

[JariWeis]

Personally, I would greatly value making sure the ability is consistent and reliable over having it work as it originally was deisgned to, but in more areas.

The issue with Mirage's Eclipse is that it's wonky and there is/was no proper indicator. Putting in extensive amounts of work to expand this "broken functionality", which is frustrating to a lot of people, seems like wasted effort and a step backwards in terms of QoL.

Eliminating the unreliability should be priority #1.

However, that would indeed make it far too powerful, hence why I liked some of the concepts brought up during the dev stream: 

1. Turn it into a toggle, have it function fully as a press/hold ability to cast DR or Damage buff, and then nerf the Helminth version of it as is done with Rhino's Roar ability.

2. Turn the ability into a toggle, have it function fully as a press/hold ability to cast DR or Damage buff on Mirage only, and then make the Helminth version require a "charge up" - Have the DR or Damage buff % increase over time that it's active, and reset the bonus once someone toggles.

I feel that the latter of these would give a greater risk vs reward dynamic, whereas the former would be more in tune with how the ability currently is being used.

If DE wants to change course and make it more of a dynamic ability, the latter would be the better option.

[Asorux]

Please remove Akarius knockback for warframe, is so annoying and unplayable for a secondary weapon, its cool and all but its just so awkward, you can't jump and shoot at the same time

[IceBen]

Quote

 

We can change Eclipse to work more reliably, but may need to reduce its effectiveness when used as a Helminth ability by reducing its power, duration, or other factors.

Eclipse is already the 2nd most popular Helminth ability, so removing its main barrier to entry (reliability) would mean a rebalance is in order. This effectiveness reduction would not affect the ability for Mirage, only when applied from the Helminth.

 

This sounds like the best option for me, but even if it was reliably working (or spawned pillars), the problem for me would be micro-managed positioning. So I know the UI was just implemented, but "more reliable" probably includes removing the 10%-100% mechanic altogether.

My random idea would be damage bonus while on full hp, damage reduction while not (or something close to this, I recognize the "getting oneshot" issue here). You could invest in shield gating/healing to keep the damage buff active, but if you want to build for tanking, it could be done.

(and I gotta shoot my shot, I would love if Hall of Mirrors was the helminth ability, even though just thinking about it would be enough to break the game's code)

[(PSN)dbtroughneck21]

Give an ability to cast light and darkness in area around mirage. Will give consistent buff for eclipse and will still be able to use as current ability as without casted light or darkness skill just not as reliable. Will be less of rework for system. Also reduce helminth ability as you do for a lot of others so if eclips is in party it will not be over powered.

 

[Vryheid]

Toggle with nerfs is my vote.

I really like the idea of being able to actively switch between the damage buff and damage resistance because it adds a lot of flexibility and different build use cases, but both values absolutely need to be nerfed to not completely warp the meta and trivialize the other subsumes in the game. While max potency Eclipse is already overpowered, the real danger here is from being able to permanently keep up a 95% DR buff as long as you keep refreshing Eclipse. That damage resistance is absolutely nuts on any reasonably tanky frame, especially those that already have some form of DR in their kit like Citrine or Mesa, and would lead to some very non-interactive gameplay. 

[Tehcaro]

Eclipse

Ability effectively the same as it is now - press button - duration based/recastable.

Damage Reduction
The more active Mirage is (aka moving), the more damage reduction she gains.
The more athletic movement (jumping/rolling etc) the faster DR is gained up the same max based on strength mods as now.
After a grace period of not moving, DR starts to decrease (slowly).

Damage bonus
Mirage gains strength the more she hits (not kills) enemies, upto the same max as now based on strength mods.
After a grace  period of not hitting enemies the damage bonus decreases (slowly).

Edited January 26 by Tehcaro

[UnstarPrime]

Personally, Eclipse has always seemed unwieldy from even a conceptual point of view.  Like, even if the implementation was "perfect", it's hard for my brain to look at a place on the map and be like "that place will be dark/light".  Like I can look at the floor and see how bright it looks, but that might not be the same for my Warframe, which is higher than the floor.  Light is complicated.

So that being the case, it feels like the light-based Eclipse encourages players to find a place where they're getting the amount of light they want and then stay there so you don't lose it, since everywhere else will be less predictable.  And that's sort of the opposite of the mobility championing game that Warframe has become.

Anyway, that's my experience with Eclipse.

So if it's between "fix it to work with light" or "toggle", I would go "toggle" all the way.

That said, I would be open to more nuanced functionality as well.  Like, if casting Eclipse randomly spawns pillars of light, and standing in that specific light gives you the offensive buff and being outside of it means you have the defensive buff, that might be okay (I would want the defensive buff to be the one that is "default" so survivability is less difficult to maintain)?  But that limits the offensive buff to only happening at specific locations on the map, which again, kind of goes against the mobile play in much of Warframe.

Anyway, no brilliant or revolutionary thoughts here, but hopefully this helps!

[(XBOX)TravieSledge]

I have an idea for Mirage at least. Two separate bars that fill based on movement or kills. But I don't know how complex you want this fix to be for her.

[I_AM_MTJP]

I think it would be interesting if it interacted with mirages other abilities. Sleight of Hand could create an area of shadow, Prism could fill the room with light! Or maybe make it that tapping Sleight of hand creates an area of shadow, and holding it creates an area of light.

If that's not possible, I'd say make it a toggle, and nerf the helminth version. The main reason I never use Mirage or subsumed Eclipse, is because the ability is very unreliable.

[talonx5]

Make it so you press for damage reduction and hold for damage buff. 

Reduce base damage reduction to help balance helmith but also give it a secondary affect of reducing enemy accuracy since Mirage becomes part of the shadows or treat it a bit like the Rakta Dark Dagger passive if her decoys are out they also attract more enemy attention to off set to lesser damage reduction (of course it can still be boosted by mods but secondary affects won't transfer over when subsumed

For the damage increase, same thing reduce it a bit to make it more balanced for helmith but increase its interaction with her other abilities by giving better damage increases/increased laser count on her 4, better damage bonus from her 1 and her augments for her 2 and 4 as that won't transfer when subsumed

Side note, can the augments for her 4 that causes the ball to follow just be duration based instead of drain?

[CH1KN_Tenders]

     Since mirage is a trickster frame, and eclipse has to do with the Sun, Moon, Light, And Darkness. I'm thinking of reforming it as an ability where you try to mix lighting to get the best of both buffs at the same time. Jumping from large open room's with a chandelier, to a dark corner at the edge of a room would be a basic example. Could amplify it to something extravagant like having a miniature Sun And moon, and needing to run around in order to keep the moon blocking the sun as it orbits around you, and the sun stays in place or even floats behind you a small distance away, since the game is very mobile.
     I'm not sure how long this should be but that reminds me of Equinox who is supposed to be the Sun and Moon. So then here is a 2nd idea, Create shadows in proximity to enemy's, so you get a dmg reduction boost while your near them, and a dmg boost the farther away you are from them. Let me know your thoughts on my idea :D I'm interested in how it'll end up.