Trading MR requirements should be removed

[GOEATSOMEFUSHM8]

So I get the whole reason why weapons are MR locked. New players should experience some of the game till they can unlock the most powerful weapons, but why lock higher MR primes in trading? Just lock it in the buyers foundry. I'm saying this because I was approached by a player wanting a boar prime (MR11) and the player was only MR 8. Why should I not be able to trade my item just because they can't use it yet?

[Zakkhar]

37 minutes ago, GOEATSOMEFUSHM8 said:

Why should I not be able to trade my item just because they can't use it yet?

Imagine similar situation. There is a minor and you are trying to sell them alcohol or smokes. Sure, they are legally not supposed to use it, but the same law kinda forbids you to sell to them.

Also coding. It is way simpler to just prevent trade than lock things in foundry. It is more universal.

Also. It is a good way to prevent lowbies from buying stuff they may never use for lots of plat

Edited March 17 by Zakkhar

[MaxTunnerX]

Drastically decrease MR requirements and apply the same rule to both using and trading. Simple to do, fixes the problem.

[Zakkhar]

11 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Simple to do, fixes the problem.

Except ther is no problem to fix. Seller has the obligation to check the MR requirement of the item he is selling and whether the buying player meets it. 

[MaxTunnerX]

9 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Except ther is no problem to fix. Seller has the obligation to check the MR requirement of the item he is selling and whether the buying player meets it. 

Problem is that MR requirement makes no sense except for trading bots, and we should treat it as such. Its totally absurd that newbies, that have literally nothing, suffer even more by not getting the best weapons either. If anything it should be the other way around (limiting weapons for veterans because they have all the mods and experience), but Im not advocating for it. Just get rid of MR requirement everywhere we can.

Edited March 18 by MaxTunnerX

[Hobie-wan]

That's a terrible idea.

Lots of players ignore information that is so readily available it would bite them if it were a snake. Other players are paying attention, but have just been overwhelmed by the amount of new information to learn while playing the game. It would feel awful as a newer player to spend platinum and/or resources on a shiny new thing only to then realize you can't claim it from the foundry because you aren't ranked high enough. I imagine quite a few players would feel they've wasted their stuff and would simply quit in disgust. I also regularly see people begging for platinum in region chat because they don't have money for slots they need to claim things sitting in the foundry which is annoying and I don't want to see more people doing that either.

Your suggestion comes off as "Well as long as I get my money, screw those noobs that can't even use the stuff I sold them."

Edited March 19 by Hobie-wan

[PollexMessier]

On 2024-03-17 at 12:41 AM, Zakkhar said:

Also coding. It is way simpler to just prevent trade than lock things in foundry. It is more universal.

Except the foundry already does this? You're not able to craft items with an MR requirement higher than you.

You can still get these blueprints from a relic if your MR is too low, you just won't be able to craft them.

I think you should be able to trade for stuff that has a higher MR requirement than you have, but it should give both parties a warning about this before allowing them to accept the trade.

At the very least, it should let you put the item in the trade window, and then fail the trade and tell both players about the MR requirement issue, so the seller doesn't have to explain it every single time that happens.

or, absolute minimum, make it so you can see a player's MR through the chat window, and a blueprint's MR requirement in your inventory, so it's easy to check at a glance if you can trade it to them or not instead of needing to take 5 minutes navigating through menus and googling items just to tell, at which point it's faster to just say you'll do the trade and discover you can't while in the trade menu, wasting everyone's time.

[Tsukinoki]

On 2024-03-17 at 2:04 AM, GOEATSOMEFUSHM8 said:

Why should I not be able to trade my item just because they can't use it yet?

So that new players aren't ripped off by spending their plat on something that they literally cannot use?  And might not be able to use for a decent amount of time?

I don't want to think of the number of tickets that DE would start getting about scammers and the like because someone was traded something that they can't use.

 

Beyond that, likely due to spaghetti code, it's also the same exact mechanism that prevents you from trading the fully built weapons (such as Prisma weapons or Syndicate Weapons).  I don't think that DEs code will allow them to just allow trading of pieces of a prime weapon but at the same time prevent you from just giving a new player a Prisma Angstrum or some other tradable weapon.  Which again would be quite a gut punch.
Imagine what it would be like to be on the end of one of those trades where you spend a few hundred plat....and then are told by the game "Oh yeah, by the way you can't use the Sancti Tigris you just spent a lot of plat to buy from the other player!  Thanks for wasting your money!  And it's using a weapon slot the entire time!"

Edited March 19 by Tsukinoki

[Zakkhar]

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Except the foundry already does this? You're not able to craft items with an MR requirement higher than you.

You can still get these blueprints from a relic if your MR is too low, you just won't be able to craft them.

Yes, but you pay for them/obtain them yourself and it doesnt involve a trade with another player. If there were some plat problems and the plat balance/purchase had to be reverted it is much easier to do.

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

or, absolute minimum, make it so you can see a player's MR through the chat window, and a blueprint's MR requirement in your inventory, so it's easy to check at a glance if you can trade it to them or not instead of needing to take 5 minutes navigating through menus and googling items just to tell, at which point it's faster to just say you'll do the trade and discover you can't while in the trade menu, wasting everyone's time.

You can already see that.

For weapon it requires either mouseover or right click on Weapon Blueprint.

Spoiler

If you do not have the blueprint(and not going to trade it) you can always procure it in chat by typing [weapon prime] (or just start typing the name and pick from the list if typing is not your thing. Just click on it and you are in weapon showcase. With all information available.

For player just rlick and check their profile.

If that is not at glance and requires 5 minutes of menus for you, am really sorry.

Edited March 20 by Zakkhar

[Voltage]

On 2024-03-17 at 6:42 AM, MaxTunnerX said:

Drastically decrease MR requirements and apply the same rule to both using and trading. Simple to do, fixes the problem.

Other way around. The highest Mastery Lock (ignoring Secura Lecta's passive at MR 18) is 16 which is absurdly low in the grand scheme of gear and severely dated. I much rather see DE add and spread out MR locks up to MR ~20 and teach the player better about rank progression. As the way it normally works, allow someone to bypass the restriction if they buy the item from the store. 

The biggest mistake is having things like Kuva/Tenet weapons accessible at lower levels or Incarnons not having too many hurdles to acquire them. Giving out this level of power at low Mastery Ranks completely kills the rest of the entire game's roster.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a 30 minutes, Voltage a dit :

The biggest mistake is having things like Kuva/Tenet weapons accessible at lower levels or Incarnons not having too many hurdles to acquire them. Giving out this level of power at low Mastery Ranks completely kills the rest of the entire game's roster.

Yes, and I completely agree with you on that last point, but do not forget about all the drama there had been when people were first introduced to the Helminth System, which was locked behind a much higher Mastery Rank than it is now. It was planned as a resource sink system, now it's become your average "fix my frame" tool.

[MaxTunnerX]

38 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Other way around. The highest Mastery Lock (ignoring Secura Lecta's passive at MR 18) is 16 which is absurdly low in the grand scheme of gear and severely dated. I much rather see DE add and spread out MR locks up to MR ~20 and teach the player better about rank progression. As the way it normally works, allow someone to bypass the restriction if they buy the item from the store. 

The biggest mistake is having things like Kuva/Tenet weapons accessible at lower levels or Incarnons not having too many hurdles to acquire them. Giving out this level of power at low Mastery Ranks completely kills the rest of the entire game's roster.

Mastery rank is completely irrelevant. Its just a number that has nothing to do with the game. And thats why it shouldnt block anyone from anything. Besides, its the hardest thing to get from 0 to 10 or 12, after that you know how to play the game and you get from 12 to 20 faster than you got from 0 to 10. Newbies do not need to be thwarted more than they already are. They have no knowledge (ESO etc.), no mods, no weapons, no frames, no 3rd party apps, cant trade (if they even know how), no platinum, and you want to increase the already high requirement to get proper weapons for them. I cant disagree more. It should be the opposite actually, give them proper weapons so they can compensate for no mods etc. and not be just a burden to everyone, especially themselves (which makes them quit as well). If (and only if) something needs to be locked behind something, it should be progress stuff like star chart, SP star chart, syndicates, quests, definitely not MR.

Edited March 20 by MaxTunnerX

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Yes, and I completely agree with you on that last point, but do not forget about all the drama there had been when people were first introduced to the Helminth System, which was locked behind a much higher Mastery Rank than it is now. It was planned as a resource sink system, now it's become your average "fix my frame" tool.

There was no drama. DE changed the lock to water it down for accessibility. That's a different topic (while still sort of relevant here) altogether.

6 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Mastery rank is completely irrelevant. Its just a number that has nothing to do with the game. And thats why it shouldnt block anyone from anything. Besides, its the hardest thing to get from 0 to 10 or 12, after that you know how to play the game and you get from 12 to 20 faster than you got from 0 to 10. Newbies do not need to be thwarted more than they already are. They have no knowledge, no mods, no weapons, no frames, no 3rd party apps, cant trade (if they even know how), no platinum, and you want to increase the already high requirement to get proper weapons for them. I cant disagree more.

You say that, but there are plenty of benefits for having a higher rank. DE has let it fall into irrelevancy for gear progress because some of the most powerful stuff in the game toss Mastery Rank aside and let you access the most power the game has way too early on.

You're not thwarting a new player by giving them a better path of gear graduation. By fixing MR locks, players would slowly make their way through different power ceilings. It wouldn't just be "use junk until max level". It's a tragedy that a new player can get Kuva Hek before Vaykor Hek, or obtain Kuva Tonkor ahead of Carmine Penta. That's just backwards. The same can be said for some Primed equipment.

Edited March 20 by Voltage

[MaxTunnerX]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

 

You're not thwarting a new player by giving them a better path of gear graduation. By fixing MR locks, players would slowly make their way through different power ceilings. It wouldn't just be "use junk until max level". It's a tragedy that a new player can get Kuva Hek before Vaykor Hek, or obtain Kuva Tonkor ahead of Carmine Penta. That's just backwards. The same can be said for some Primed equipment.

 

Yes you are, because it wont work if the game doesnt tell them information, and the game will never do that (its been asked since the start of the game and it still hasnt arrived). And that problem of vaykor hek etc. would easily be solved by just removing the MR requirement, without any other change to the game.

[Krubie]

On 2024-03-19 at 8:26 PM, PollexMessier said:

I think you should be able to trade for stuff that has a higher MR requirement than you have, but it should give both parties a warning about this before allowing them to accept the trade.

This would be the best way for me. I recently returned with a new account and wanted to start gathering prime parts cheaply so I have them as soon as I'm the required MR, but couldn't. It's not like it's a major issue, but being able to trade with the warning that you need X mastery level to build doesn't have any downsides.

[Tukka]

On 2024-03-19 at 8:34 PM, Zakkhar said:

If that is not at glance and requires 5 minutes of menus for you, am really sorry.

 

Most people are not going to expend even 10 seconds' worth of effort to hedge against a rare situation that they might not even be aware of as a potential issue.

Expecting people to be maximally conscientious and detail oriented at all times is a recipe for disappointment, and bad design.

Edited March 21 by Tukka

[Pakaku]

On 2024-03-20 at 3:40 AM, Voltage said:

It's a tragedy that a new player can get Kuva Hek before Vaykor Hek, or obtain Kuva Tonkor ahead of Carmine Penta. That's just backwards. The same can be said for some Primed equipment.

The core concept isn't bad: Liches are a beef-gate and you fight for your right to use those weapons. New players, on their own, do not have the equipment or mods to take on a Lich. They need to be at a point where you're prepared to fight them, and that takes gameplay time. If you're able to prove you can take on a boss earlier than usual, then you can say you deserve the weapon earlier than usual

The problem is when outside factors come in, like simply joining experienced players who do the work for you. Maybe liches should never have been party-squad compatible, kept single-player only to guarantee that you yourself are the one who put in the work, or something like that

Edited March 21 by Pakaku