i feel like dante is too good ?

[Xenevier]

1 hour ago, johnno23 said:

Dante is a lot of fun and I like that he is a good support frame but I like even more that for solo runs he is tremendous fun. I got so fed up running the new mission on Deinos where in the public missions everyone tends to just run for the exit after the first round of disruption is completed. just ran 30 minutes solo as I need him twice so that one copy can be subsumed. 30 minutes i had no issues and only stopped as my coffee was getting cold. 

I am unsure if he is actually over powered though ? I lean more towards the fact that he is simply so good out of the gate that he kinda breaks the general rule of new frame and wait for the tweaks, He does not need tweaking as his kit seems to be extremely well balanced. I think that if people start dumping Rhinos roar on his 1st though then due t how roar buffs abilities as well as weapon damage then we might see an issue but then the question in my mind is will DE nerf the frame or Rhino's roar? I know DE like to tout Balance but seriously the game is so broken already it is time they just let people play and have fun. After all with the arcanes archon shards incarnon mode weapons even newer players can smash their way through just about anything they encounter.

forgot to mention my 30 minutes was SP

yeah people on disruption missions just tend to leave after 4, i also solo ran for him and it was a much more simple and enjoyable experience, i dont think there is an issue with a frame being good from the get-go but i think the issue is that a frame shouldnt be making other frames' less of a unique thing. i dont mean to say giving other frames overguard is bad, no, i mean sharing overguard with allies has always been an augment for styanax and frost but now dante can do that without wasting a mod slot on it and can do it to greater lengths, both frost and styanax were locked behind spamming a 100 energy cost ability that had a long animation but dante doesnt. i think it is completely okay to have high damage or high support capabilities. but when you compare him to other high damage characters like kullervo, kullervo has 0 shields and so in late late game is a glass cannon, but dante is not, not only does he have shields but he also Generates them and doesnt need to keep on spammnig abilities for his shield but also deals crazy amounts of damage and shares said overguard with everyone. why would you ever use styanax's or frost's augment if you have access to dante, sure you can say if you are already playing styanax and want more out of him then you use augment. but the second you randomly get into a lobby and there's a dante with you, guess what that mod slot you used is completely wasted now :D

[(XBOX)Timidobserver]

The only thing about him that is too good is the overguard generation. A support minded Dante that just casts overguard for the entire mission just invalidates the difficulty as well as every other support or defensive frame in the game. 

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Look at Gyre. You get her from the Zariman, yet her abilities can’t really nuke there unless you massively supplement her with the Helminth.

I really feel like DE should consider redesigning her. As she stands, it's effectively mandatory/required to use Pillage on her. She is both too squishy (has bottom-tier stats with no innate survivability) and can't effectively get through Grineer armor nor Corpus shields with how low her ability's base damage values are.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

I really feel like DE should consider redesigning her. As she stands, it's effectively mandatory/required to use Pillage on her. She is both too squishy (has bottom-tier stats with no innate survivability) and can't effectively get through Grineer armor nor Corpus shields with how low her ability's base damage values are.

I feel like we both know the best they'll do is an armor strip augment for her 1 or 2 at this point.  And honestly, I probably wouldn't waste a slot on it.  It's easier to give up a slot for Pillage, and Pillage covers every weakness she has.  She's starved for mod space.

[Xenevier]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Timidobserver said:

The only thing about him that is too good is the overguard generation. A support minded Dante that just casts overguard for the entire mission just invalidates the difficulty as well as every other support or defensive frame in the game. 

i dont mind his damage either, my main problem is also with his overguard, why bring a wisp and boost hp when you can instead have near infinite overguard which will keep you alive for about 99% of the content in the game? and then some people say "oh but level 1000 SP circuit will kill overguard anyway" and to that i say they also kill anyone buffed just by wisp as well ... the point of the overguard sharing used to be a fun gimic to give team survivabilty by sacrificing energy and a mod slot, not if i walk into a lobby with dante i know i will legit not die even if i bring in paper thin ivara in. and if i bring styanax/frost with their augment into a party and there's another dante with us, welp i guess my augment is useless now 

[Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I feel like we both know the best they'll do is an armor strip augment for her 1 or 2 at this point.  And honestly, I probably wouldn't waste a slot on it.  It's easier to give up a slot for Pillage, and Pillage covers every weakness she has.  She's starved for mod space.

She truly is starved for slots and requires a large amount of forma and shards. I really enjoy her but a lack of armor strip in her base kit is truly the bane of her.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

didn't read anything. here to say that "wHy Do wE neED neRfS In A PVe gAMe?!?!" is beyond uneducated. gl

Edited March 29 by Ghastly-Ghoul

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It's easier to give up a slot for Pillage,

Especially since Coil Horizon (2nd ability) is so bad, easy Helminth choice.

[McRibbles]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Especially since Coil Horizon (2nd ability) is so bad, easy Helminth choice.

That's a weird way of spelling Arcsphere.

[Xenevier]

21 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

didn't read anything. here to say that "wHy Do wE neED neRfS In A PVe gAMe?!?!" is beyond uneducated. gl

100% agree, a PvE game still needs balance in it, if we had frames over shadowing others then that would not be balanced, literally look at every PvE game, the biggest fear they have with new characters is power creep, saying power creep doesnt exist in PvE is such a mindless thing to me

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Especially since Coil Horizon (2nd ability) is so bad, easy Helminth choice.

i personally prefer her 2 over 1, i think having a grouping ability even if its doesnt have a ton of range or duration is still good on her

[Hexerin]

11 minutes ago, McRibbles said:

That's a weird way of spelling Arcsphere.

7 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

i personally prefer her 2 over 1, i think having a grouping ability even if its doesnt have a ton of range or duration is still good on her

Coil Horizon has extremely poor synergy with her passive and Rotorswell, and she doesn't need grouping due to how her kit works. On the flip side, Arcsphere has incredible synergy with both her passive and Rotorswell, and you can have three areas covered by them at once. Additionally, if you're skilled at airbursting Arcsphere, it deals significantly more damage than Coil Horizon could ever dream to. There's simply no reason to ever keep Coil Horizon over Archsphere when making a Helminth choice.

If you desperately need grouping for some reason, you'd still be better off replacing Coil Horizon, and use something like Ensnare instead.

Edited March 29 by Hexerin

[CrownOfShadows]

IMO, yes he is too strong. Jump into an ESO right now and just stand there as a Dante nukes the whole room from orbit, better than any other nuker in the game, better than the stupidity that is legerdemain even. AND he can give the whole team ridiculous amounts of overgaurd if he happened to be in challenging content. It feels like he was developed in a powercrept environment and then dropped into ours.

The one thing I really hate about the WF youtube community is that nobody EVER has the balls to say 'this is too strong' or 'this is too easy'.

 

[sunderthefirmament]

9 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

IMO, yes he is too strong. Jump into an ESO right now and just stand there as a Dante nukes the whole room from orbit, better than any other nuker in the game, better than the stupidity that is legerdemain even. AND he can give the whole team ridiculous amounts of overgaurd if he happened to be in challenging content. It feels like he was developed in a powercrept environment and then dropped into ours.

The one thing I really hate about the WF youtube community is that nobody EVER has the balls to say 'this is too strong' or 'this is too easy'.

 

He’s a bit too spammy for Simaris’ tastes though, especially if you slot in some casting speed, which is generally a very good idea on dear Dante. 

[Xenevier]

11 hours ago, CrownOfShadows said:

IMO, yes he is too strong. Jump into an ESO right now and just stand there as a Dante nukes the whole room from orbit, better than any other nuker in the game, better than the stupidity that is legerdemain even. AND he can give the whole team ridiculous amounts of overgaurd if he happened to be in challenging content. It feels like he was developed in a powercrept environment and then dropped into ours.

The one thing I really hate about the WF youtube community is that nobody EVER has the balls to say 'this is too strong' or 'this is too easy'.

 

well yeah as evident by this thread, people do NOT take lightly to their favorite characters being called too strong, im guessing if a youtuber would call a frame too strong the community would eat them up in seconds like how some ppl been doing here, but having said that, i have legit seen youtubers outright call him broken and how they expecta  nerf to his overguard at least

[Xenevier]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

He’s a bit too spammy for Simaris’ tastes though, especially if you slot in some casting speed, which is generally a very good idea on dear Dante. 

since dante's combos are made from different abilities, it wont be turned off by simaris if you play smart, you can spam abilities as much as you want as long as they arent the same, as for dante, you have 4 combos for your 4th ability so if you just put one in after another you wont ever get locked out

[sunderthefirmament]

53 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

since dante's combos are made from different abilities, it wont be turned off by simaris if you play smart, you can spam abilities as much as you want as long as they arent the same, as for dante, you have 4 combos for your 4th ability so if you just put one in after another you wont ever get locked out

I had my doubts about this based on ranking and forma'ing him yesterday and the day before, but I didn't want to reply until I tested it.  And after testing, I can confirm that you're mistaken.  That's now how Simaris registers Dante's abilities.

 

I just popped into ESO, built up a bit of energy, and did the following two different executions of his 4 in rapid succession:

• 2, 2, 4 
• 3, 3, 4.

 

Simaris immediately quipped at me about skewing his data, and disabled my 4.

 

This doesn't surprise me.  I think Simaris just registers you pressing your 4th ability button.  After all, Helminthing away a Warframe's 4th ability and putting something like Nourish or Xata's over it still causes it to get disabled if you tap it twice in rapid succession.

[Xenevier]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I had my doubts about this based on ranking and forma'ing him yesterday and the day before, but I didn't want to reply until I tested it.  And after testing, I can confirm that you're mistaken.  That's now how Simaris registers Dante's abilities.

 

I just popped into ESO, built up a bit of energy, and did the following two different executions of his 4 in rapid succession:

• 2, 2, 4 
• 3, 3, 4.

 

Simaris immediately quipped at me about skewing his data, and disabled my 4.

 

This doesn't surprise me.  I think Simaris just registers you pressing your 4th ability button.  After all, Helminthing away a Warframe's 4th ability and putting something like Nourish or Xata's over it still causes it to get disabled if you tap it twice in rapid succession.

mb then, didnt know thats how it worked since usually when i do ESO which tbf is not often, i try to use some random abilities in the middle of my combos and it usually works

[Daddy.bulbs]

For once they make a power fantasy frame feel like you are POWERFUL an you complain....

[zThulsaDoomz]

Wait until everyone has caught onto what Nezha is doing if you think Dante is too good lol

[Xenevier]

2 hours ago, Daddy.bulbs said:

For once they make a power fantasy frame feel like you are POWERFUL an you complain....

i dont mind him being powerful and doing big damage, my problem is overguard sharing cap being so high and so easy and so cheap for him that it makes stayanx and frost's augments useless when you compare them to him, if a frame has insane damage its fine, its bad when it has insane damage, insane survivability for 99% of the game and shares said survivability and in doing so eclipses other frames doing the same thing

[phantasmalWordsmith]

I'm not usually one to comment on nerfs and buff for a Warframe because it is what it is.

However

Just gotten out of a run of sanctuary onslaught where a Dante which jacked up Casting Speed - looked like he was using Madurai, who knows about the mods - was able to spam abilities so quickly that it actually caused framerate issues, and even worse, my buddy I was playing with got so glitched out of the game and unable to kill anything before it died that it triggered the AFK measure, and they did not get their drops.

And that wasn't their fault. It wasn't the Dante's fault either, he's built it up as is their right, but there needs to be a change otherwise Dante can seriously hamper the enjoyment of the game

Put a hard cap on Casting Speed.
Add a Line of Sight check to Final Verse
Maybe tweak the energy cost of Final Verse.

I love casting spells, but I do not want my buddy's game to be ruined by an overzealous build.

[quxier]

4 minutes ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

 

Put a hard cap on Casting Speed.

There is already cap. Each shard give you less and less, e.g. 1st shard 20, 2nd 15 etc.

4 minutes ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

Put a hard cap on Casting Speed.
Add a Line of Sight check to Final Verse
Maybe tweak the energy cost of Final Verse.

I love casting spells, but I do not want my buddy's game to be ruined by an overzealous build.

Or maybe tweak graphics so it doesn't update so fast? It happened with Gyre as well (not so serious) in the sp circuit.

 

[phantasmalWordsmith]

3 minutes ago, quxier said:

There is already cap. Each shard give you less and less, e.g. 1st shard 20, 2nd 15 etc.

No, I promise you, if you saw what I saw you'd get it. I have no doubt there were Shards in there, but there's also the potential of Natural Talent, Speed Drift, and the one thing I could see was getting the Madurai casting speed buff.

I'm also certain there was a Macro involved cause it was rediculous how quickly he was casting Dark Verse.

[quxier]

1 minute ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

8 minutes ago, quxier said:

There is already cap. Each shard give you less and less, e.g. 1st shard 20, 2nd 15 etc.

No, I promise you, if you saw what I saw you'd get it. I have no doubt there were Shards in there, but there's also the potential of Natural Talent, Speed Drift, and the one thing I could see was getting the Madurai casting speed buff.

My point is that each shard, mod etc give you less and less already. The problem is Dante NOT attack speed sources. In normal use cases they are even bad. Nerfing THEM would be bad.

What they need to do is cap Dante's attack speed like Gyre/4th nerf....Now that I'm rre-reading your post that's what you meant (not nerf attack speed mods/shards/madurai).

[Waeleto]

1 hour ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

Just gotten out of a run of sanctuary onslaught where a Dante which jacked up Casting Speed - looked like he was using Madurai, who knows about the mods - was able to spam abilities so quickly that it actually caused framerate issues, and even worse, my buddy I was playing with got so glitched out of the game and unable to kill anything before it died that it triggered the AFK measure, and they did not get their drops.

Can't nerf everything because you have a low end PC

1 hour ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

Put a hard cap on Casting Speed.

already exists