PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[iiReapzx]

13 minutes ago, FeraGru said:

To be totally fair here, this was only ever any kind of issue with star chart SOLELY because his 3 does enough damage that any you store up will obliterate anything else not currently affected by bleeds. Go to Albrecht's Lab tilesets and you're already not room clearing with every cast of Tragedy because of the sheer tankiness of the enemies as a result of their status immunity.

Exactly, even though it could hit through walls, on steel path you were not nuking anything that hadn't been slashed by Dark Verse or loaded up with powerful toxin, slash and heat procs by weapons (except maybe very weak fodder enemies like butchers). This nerf was completely unnecessary and not thought out in the slightest.

Edited April 5 by iiReapzx

[tucker_d_dawg]

2 hours ago, AxelFlussbach said:

I remember the original premise of Steel Path

 

***

What it isn’t:
❌ - intended to be associated with the nebulous ‘end game’ topic.
❌ - overly complicated in its goal to simply provide higher level content and some exclusive rewards.
❌ - tiered. We are providing one 100+ level pass to be cognizant of matchmaking for our first iteration.

***

(taken from

)

Note that it was not meant to be overly complicated and it was not meant to be associated with the nebulous 'end game' topic.

Well, it's not associated with a nebulous 'end game' topic,  because it's undeniably associated with the actual endgame now. Steel Path difficulty crept its way into the normal endgame (sometimes actually called Steel Path modifiers, sometimes disguised with a different name) and the game is in a worse state because of all the power-creep that comes with it.

We'd have a lot less problems if Steel Path wouldn't exist or at least would have stayed just the second starchart playthrough. Steel Path difficulty is abused by Digital Extremes to make content more fake-exciting.

Agree

Steel Path is normal mode, and normal mode is basically just a typical games tutorial level difficulty - only easier.

Every steel path mission i go into is hardly "endgame" players - its just average MR 12-18 players nuking everything with cut&paste builds from youtube.  This new game mode is ample evidence they have completely lost the will or know how to balance the game  and fail even when throwing absurd modifiers and arsenal restrictions.

5 years ago, it was not uncommon to see those same tier players struggling after 10 minutes in normal star chart MOT... now its just braindead 40min on ANY steel path mission.

and in that regard, i find their efforts to nerf nezha, danta, eclipse, nourish laughable... all it does is piss off players who enjoy those frames, when 1000% other strategies are still stupid god-tier levels of strong.  A few years ago, I was in the camp of "this and that needs a nerf or rebalance" - but everything is so out of hand at this point, I'm now of the mind they are wasting their time and players good will by even attempting it.. just add a zero to every damage number and a zero to every enemy level on every release and keep the  masses happy.   Why even bother with "balance" - there is no amount of tweaking of ANYTHING developers could do to balance the game at this point.  

If players want a challenge, find a new game - this aint that kind of movie, bruh.

If players want a braindead lightshow with flashy numbers - let them at least enjoy it.

But trying to "Balance" now is only pissing off all players..."Its too nerfed" "its a good start but what about xyz" "its not enough"....
 

 

[FeraGru]

1 minute ago, iiReapzx said:

This nerf was completely unnecessary and not thought out in the slightest.

The only shred of benefit of the doubt I can even try to give -- though still not justifying it whatsoever -- is that because of DE's decision to make frames accessible through base Circuit, that now ALL frames are easily accessible, though locked behind a timed rotation. If Dante were not to be added to circuit whatsoever, I frankly doubt they would make stupid changes like a LoS change to a mediocre nuke ability. But because of what I said, that it easily clears base star chart, and because Dante is accessible to new players through circuit, they can't let it be too powerful which is excruciatingly frustrating and 100% a product of their own oversight by giving new players very easy access to some of these otherwise extremely powerful frames that veteran players enjoy to the moon and back. I genuinely loved Dante from the second I used him, and I haven't felt that way about a Frame since Gauss.

[MuonNeutrino]

Well that's disappointing. I spent most of this past week farming up and messing around with Dante, so I didn't even get to use the interesting new augment for my favorite frame Nezha before it was effectively removed from the game. Slapping a 50% (multiplicative!) range penalty on it makes the ability basically worthless unless you build for so much range you can't build for anything else, and range is a stat that Nezha otherwise has no use for. Note that this is a 75% nerf to area covered! The ability becomes essentially pointless for crowd control *or* the new effect with that short of a range, so putting on the augment is arguably a downgrade now unless you cripple the rest of your build for range or are subsuming on a gathering tool or something like that, which is not what an augment should be.

If the problem was that this ability with high range was too problematically strong and letting people nuke entire tiles, why not just do 'range is capped at 100% of base' instead of this giga nerf? That would prevent tile-nuking, and at least that way you aren't self-nerfing the ability into the ground (for everyone not building for infinite range) by choosing to put on the augment. Because right now I see absolutely zero reason to ever equip it, and if I could I'd ask the steel meridian vendor if they could refund my standing and endo.

This is particularly sad because, while I love the frame to bits, he's mostly just a weapons platform. His 1 and 4 are his most flavorful abilities, but they're also normally his least impactful - I subsumed off his 1 eons ago, and I never actually need his 4 in like 95% of missions. I was looking forward to actually having a reason to use his 4 and gratuitously impale things on spears, but I guess it'll just go back to gathering dust.

[Vilalion]

can you guys make the reload speed shown again please thank you

[Raikh]

30 minutes ago, tucker_d_dawg said:

and in that regard, i find their efforts to nerf nezha, danta, eclipse, nourish laughable... all it does is piss off players who enjoy those frames, when 1000% other strategies are still stupid god-tier levels of strong.  A few years ago, I was in the camp of "this and that needs a nerf or rebalance" - but everything is so out of hand at this point, I'm now of the mind they are wasting their time and players good will by even attempting it.. just add a zero to every damage number and a zero to every enemy level on every release and keep the  masses happy.   Why even bother with "balance" - there is no amount of tweaking of ANYTHING developers could do to balance the game at this point.  

Pretty much. Either the game needs to be balanced whole-heartedly or it needs to embrace how unhinged it is. Right now its doing neither. It plays pretend whenever something becomes "too popular" but never establishes whats acceptable and whats not acceptable fundamentally. And at this stage, especially looking how reactions to nerfs take shape here, it looks like the game has fully fostered a community that isn't open to a large scale rebalance, so maybe it should really just embrace the craziness and start making content to meet its measure, rather than single the most popular thing at a time out w/o actually making much of anything better overall.

19 minutes ago, MuonNeutrino said:

If the problem was that this ability with high range was too problematically strong and letting people nuke entire tiles

I don't know how this even happens at this stage of the game's lifespan. Just what did they expect people to do with that augment? Especially since its not only spreading status but also allows you to detonate all DoTs with a second button press. It was plain obvious what this augment would do, yet here we are. Incredibly heavy handed reaction to something that was very predictable and now most of whats left is a bad aftertaste, rather than a fun addition to the game.

 

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Completing all 3 Deep Archimedea missions with a Research Points of 25 or higher will unlock Elite Archimedea permanently.

Does this mean for the current week, or for all future Deep Archimedea?

[ColsonTheOrdisMechanic]

These nerfs solved absolutely nothing and only made the actual problems even worse.  

[AeinzPrime]

Tbh if yall keep pulling dumb S#&$ like this, imma jump ship to Helldivers 2

[Marcooze]

Please consider reverting the LoS check for Tragedy, as you can clearly gather from the comments, it solved nothing, and only succeeded in making the frame feel awful to play. Also the Overguard numbers were hit too hard.

[Endless-Fantasy]

Dante turn on the tv
 

*DANTE IS DED*

 

[Dragoon]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Transference Distortion: Transference into Operator and Drifter is blocked.

I find this 'modifier' isn't talked about enough. The forums are focusing on Dante right now (for good reason), but I honestly hate this modifier. You've spent the past how many years trying to fit the Operator/Drifter into the main combat loop, from adding arcanes, amp arcanes, focus school reworks, etcetera. Now in the supposed 'endgame' mode you propose, the culmination of all the gear we've farmed and affinity we've gained, you consider it a 'modifier' to remove all investment into one half of the gameplay loop - the Operator - as well as remove our choice of gear? For players that have worked to unlock them, focus schools can definitely become important things to consider in a loadout, whether you want Unairu's poise for knockdown resistance, Madurai for damage, Zenurik for energy; they're choices we make that are now useless in what's supposed to be endgame.

Removing choice isn't difficulty, it's artificial. The modifiers for Deep Archimedia don't come across as difficulty, they come across as fake difficulty, just like Grendel's missions.

[ShuraBlack]

I don't mind the Dante changes. I didn't got why everyone is pulling out there money for him anyway, but...

Nerfing Nezha after she got finally a reason to play and the misconception of "random loadout" = "difficulty" gets on my nerves a bit. I don't wanna pray to rngesus even on my equipment selection just to get any "meaningful" rewards (elite rewards are not elite for sure).

To get it finally done it took me 3 hours X) just bruh moment when 12/12 items aren't playable at level 400, cause they are trash or getting blocked my turbo scking energy debuffs.

Edited April 5 by ShuraBlack

[Stomno]

Oh, I forgot to show this:

Dante on levelcap tested. I play the game, not like the devs or people who don't own dante even <3
This nerf doesn't make sense.

[Meltandriel]

Randomness isn't difficulty, gutting frames isn't difficulty, making x frame unusable cuz everything is just cc immune isn't difficulty. Actually learn what makes games fun, it's a horde shooter , ofc u are powerfully,  that's the point, to mow down the mobs with the occasional one or two elites that require focusing. But locking the "hardest" game mode behind rng is dumb.

BTW inaros is still bad, u gave him an armor strip and called it a day and its passive feels awful to use since u can't scale the attack speed. And lol, nerf the nuke frame when literally saran and other nuke frame get untouched.

Buff older frame and dw about people who play pubs, the pub experience is always gonna be awful, this game is simply not designed for pubs to synergies so things like "disruption to gameplay"whatever that means will happen regardless.

[Wolfgang177]

If they just worked on making line of sight reliable then this change wouldn't feel so extreme. The OG changes are about what I expected, its easier to treat a symptom than actually address the root cause. It's disappointing as I've been really rooting for DE lately. This, coupled with Pablo's sentiment on what we *want* out of balancing and reworks really speaks negatively on the design and balance portion of DE.

https://imgur.com/a/N8gpVeL

I believe with the tsunami of negative feedback they're going to sheepishly undo the changes (at least to dante) and not learn a single damn thing from this.

 

[HezDergator]

29 minutes ago, ShuraBlack said:

I don't mind the Dante changes. I didn't got why everyone is pulling out there money for him anyway, but...

Nerfing Nezha after she got finally a reason to play and the misconception of "random loadout" = "difficulty" gets on my nerves a bit. I don't wanna pray to rngesus even on my equipment selection just to get any "meaningful" rewards (elite rewards are not elite for sure).

To get it finally done it took me 3 hours X) just bruh moment when 12/12 items aren't playable at level 400, cause they are trash or getting blocked my turbo scking energy debuffs.

It's worse than the Nezha changes even though the Nezha changes were already really bad

 

What's there not to get?

[tucker_d_dawg]

13 minutes ago, Wolfgang177 said:

I believe with the tsunami of negative feedback they're going to sheepishly undo the changes (at least to dante) and not learn a single damn thing from this.

Sometime when people are on the receiving end of constructive criticism, they double down and go faster down the wrong path.  Seen DE do it before.  
I actually don't care in this race because I haven't had time to use any of the things that got nerfed - I only knew not to bother investing in any of it from the shear volume of clickbait thumbnails thrown at me by YouTube.  Didn't even watch those - it was clear just from that the hammer was coming.

In any event, the increasing amount of daily/weekly FOMO chores DE throws at me is pushing me away from the game anyway - every time I log in I feel more and more obligated to do this weekly mission or that daily task rather than casually enjoy the game for a few hours on end playing with different builds.

[Sudri]

I understand how the Overguard to team mates can make it impossible to play frames like Chroma effectively, but my God people, I cannot understand how some of these changes are considered necessary. Too many frames don't have to care about line of sight and are easily more capable of demolishing armies in another room in an instant. To see this happen to a frame that was capable of nuking groups but actually being fun to play at the same time, really feels bad as a player. I never once felt that his offense was out of control. The Defensive capacity he has like Overguard is where I feel a discussion is appropriate.

[OfPowerOfWant]

Claiming my Dante now and joining the pitchfork party 🤣☠️

Nerfs have always been lame

we need LOS but eximus aoes go right through walls, seems totally illegit, please quit

Edited April 5 by OfPowerOfWant
grammer

[ZaqMacKraken]

50% range reduction on the Nezha augment makes overextended MANDATORY to use the spears.  Otherwise, you get less than base range with just stretch and augur reach.

Maybe just 30% reduction would be fair.  Let us get a decent range without needing overextended.

[yongluofanchen]

😡This is commercial fraud. You Corpus give me back my Forma

 

6 hours ago, ZaqMacKraken said:

Nezha 增强的射程减少 50%，因此必须使用长矛。否则，仅通过伸展和预兆范围就可以得到小于基本范围的距离。

也许减少 30% 就比较公平了。让我们获得一个合适的范围，而不需要过度扩展。

50% less range, 75% less area😤

[ArmoredHarpy]

Man, sure glad I got to play Dante when he was real I guess.
Should really aim to make every frame as fun as he was on release.
Most fun I've had playing Warframe in years, guess I'll go back to playing something else for awhile.

Best of Luck DE

[Kerlism]

On 2024-04-04 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Observant Tenno may have noticed some Abilities are no longer interacting with Crowd Control immune foes the same way. This is due to a change that went out with Dante Unbound, but was unfortunately missed in Patch Notes. These particular interactions fell outside of the intended design of CC immunity, so we have removed these outliers to restore expected behaviors. 

Enemies with Crowd Control immunity (ex: Overguard) have had the following interactions removed:

Making CC even more useless kinda baffles me, especially with muzzle flash, breach surge, and temporal drag. All of those felt intentional and good to use (with the former two eating up your helminth slot to even use), but fine, looks like we need more damage than we were already using.

Patch as a whole was quite terrible anyways, new gamemode isn't hard it's just filled with bs to trick you into thinking it's hard (even as an mr30 player, the randomness in the way of the max rewards is too punishing if you don't own the weapons or frames for a given week, it really should pick between the stuff you own or give sample builds like duviri does since lots of people like playing solo such as myself). The Dante "tweaks" killed the most interesting frame we've had in a long time (the LoS check needs to go, the overguard needs to return to normal with a reduced effect for allies, and pageflight really didnt need to be touched tbh), Nezha's augment nerf was a little too severe (75% range would be so much more fair than the current 50%), and although the minor Onos buffs helped, the new weapons still feel extremely lackluster. Also sort of sucks to see the Arca Titron get so heavily gutted.

[RyllusPurple]

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