35.5.3 changes to Dante

[Nalfgar]

13 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Did you really use the birds for damage?

I’m not going to lie and say that the LoS doesn’t affect Tragedies effectiveness. But its damage output wasn’t changed.

Yes, birds don't have the effect of increasing status damage anymore. You're delirious if you think that's not a huge damage nerf. All they do now is increase status chance.

It is effectively a damage output decrease, even if it hides behind a LOS change. Want to kill those enemies that you can see but that are below you? Have fun running up and down the stairs.

I guess DE thinks if we nerf saryns range by 95%, it's not really a nerf to her damage since the output is the same. Dumb logic. I would 100% take a 20-30% damage nerf over LOS.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

16 minutes ago, LoneTonberry said:

Birds increased Status Damage on enemies they hit. Which is the thing that Tragedy's damage is based on. So yeah, if you were only doing 3-3-4 all the time then your raw damage likely didn't actually go down. But anyone using his full kit saw a huge drop in damage from them removing that aspect of Pageflight.

I literally haven’t noticed a single drop in my kill capabilities with tragedy.

[DankoLord]

Quite frankly, the nerf to Dante did nothing but make him annoying to play. Line of sight requirements are bullS#&$ and should never be part of the game.

My main issue with him, or rather overguard in general, is that it makes certain abilities and mods useless. Rage and hunter adrenaline for one, cannot make the player regain energy when overguard is active. Same goes for Gauss' Kinetic plating.

[Hejirah-Umbra]

sounds pretty bad ngl

why tease us and release OP stuff then remove it after a week? Don't they do testing before hand? They didn't thought people gonna abuse the hell out of such ability?

 

[ReaperR33]

6 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

LoS nerf was a good call. People complaining don't understand the synergy potentials with Saryn and other DoT applications for higher level damage scaling. Ya'll just mad because he isn't brain dead any more. Stay mad, I'll enjoy playing Dante a hell of a lot more now that he isn't a 3 button mashing combo bot with infinite defense.
 

PLEASE don't change this DE. Ignore the butt hurt comments of people who had and lost. If Dante was released like this, no one would even have complained.

Saryn player spotted in the forum. Opinion discarded.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

16 minutes ago, Sentinel_011 said:

If I can deal 20,000 damage to ten targets in a room, I can deal 200,000  damage total.

If suddenly I can only deal that same amount of damage to 5 enemies in the same room, despite all 10 of those enemies still being there, my output is now halved to 100,000. 

LoS, in addition to making it so slight elevations and moderate obstacles shield you from the ability, also stops you from hitting targets *behind you* as well. Combined with his massive reduction in defensive ability, and he's now maybe a quarter as survivable as he was before these nerfs.

No, you were dealing 20,000 before and still dealing 20,000 now. The number of enemies you’re hitting is irrelevant to your damage output. It’s relevant to killing efficiency tho.

[(PSN)jcodybunch]

This seems like the usual revenue generation of a mobile game company. Release a strong product, let customers spend money on it, nerf it into the ground. Players move on and play something else. Rinse and repeat. 

[TheBlackAce21]

1 minute ago, FBalfour said:

Ignore this guy. He's ignoring the entirety of the community because he's salty that Mesa can be assisted instead of worshipped.

The entirety of the community has been pissing and moaning about losing nuke frames since the og Saryn nerfs. Some of us LIKE the direction of more thoughtful gameplay than mash button in one spot and turn off brain. I also don't know what "Mesa can be assisted" means but it's a poor attempt at lumping me into a category of people you think suck for a line of thought you think exists. Debate the argument properly or don't quote at me.

[THE_DEMPSEY]

Agreed to your post, they also must roll back this with Birds Status Damage Increase getting restored, Birds/Tragedy Ability doesn't deal much damage to even clear regular 100-110 SP enemies for example. 

Edited April 4 by THE_DEMPSEY

[Aiden85]

The LOS nerf to Tragedy was way too much and on top of that in testing even enemies right in front of me are surviving that didn't before. Did you stealth nerf the DMG too? Also why this change at all? You had to cast his 3 twice before you could even cast Tragedy making it really energy intensive. I understand the Overguard but something is seriously wrong with Tragedy now.   

[randomkaleb]

I think these balance changes missed the mark for me. It seemed like the problem with Light Verse and Triumph was with how overguard interacts with abilities/mods that require you to take health or shield damage like Chroma or hunter adrenaline/rage, with Dante's triumph preventing that, But even more than halving Triumph, 20-40k overguard is still a significant amount to chew through before your abilities can function again, and the regeneration still will keep enemies from getting to your shields or health, so I don't see how simply reducing the overguard unless it's to an unusable level helps,

The nerf to Triumph is unfortunate, I understand trying to keep abilities and attacks from going through walls, but line-of-sight checks seem so finicky in this game, a small rock or a pole, when I can clearly see the target, will prevent it from registering, wasting now 3 ability casts, if you intended to kill the target. I think a range nerf would have sufficed, like what was done to Divine Retribution on Nezha.

The changes to Pageflight were interesting, I feel like this nerfs Dante's single target potential with triumph most, since things like Acolytes and Demolishers can only take so many procs, the damage increase with those 4 procs was important. While we are certainly capable of just using our weapons for these targets, it was a lot of fun putting out comparable damage against them with Dante's abilities.

I did think Wardwarden needed a buff, and I think this is a reasonable increase.

Overall I think some changes were needed, but still more tweaking needs to be done.

[crazywolfpusher]

8 minutes ago, Suiseii said:

The worst part of the tragedy nerf is that other enemies block the LOS, meaning if you have an enemy using another as a meatshield they will completely dodge tragedy

Pillage and Fireblast suffer from the same. There are a bunch more but yeah, LoS is messy across the board.

 

[Noctly]

Quote

 

We see that Dante's Tragedy LoS does not hit ragdolls and has issues hitting enemies in your general sight (as noted in this thread.)

We're testing a change to Dante's LoS that both effectively hits ragdolls and does the increased number of checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits.

 

Just revert the LOS requirement entirely. 

 

[Nalfgar]

3 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I literally haven’t noticed a single drop in my kill capabilities with tragedy.

Go home everyone, ToastyGrimlock98 didn't notice it so it didn't happen, we overreacted. 

[AesirDuke]

This has taught me never to buy a new frame pack again. I've played this game for years. I've spent hundreds of dollars but always avoided new frame packs. Dante is the first frame I was excited about before his release. I saved forma and dropped 5 or 6 on him (and Noctua) immediately. I've never forma'd a base frame before. I already ground out a copy to subsume. I put 5 Tauforged shards on him, and previously I'd only slotted one Archon Shard because I'm indecisive. I defended DE about how excellent this game has been and how I trusted them to treat Dante with care. What was said? Slight touch? Little tweak? Whatever it was turned out to be a nuke to his kit that pre-hotfix 334 could only dream of.

Well I'm not indecisive about not giving DE my money anymore. You'll still get my player count but aside from maybe future Tennocon access I'm done directly supporting DE.

Every Dante fan should exclusively play Saryn for the next month.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

14 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Oh yes, PLEASE add LoS on saryn's spore and a cooldown on revenant's mesmer skin, make warframe ACTUALLY world on fire idc anymore

BUMP. (As a heavy Rev player. ID WELCOME THIS)

Also YES nerf spores. AND mirages glitter bombs while we are at it since she can pretty much DOMINATE and DISRUPT other peoples gameplay by forcing them to be afk as THERE IS NOTHING TO KILL.

Edited April 4 by -ShadowRadiance-

[Piterros990]

In a world where Wisp can place motes and do nothing for the rest of the mission, Citrine can just give damage reduction, Saryn can nuke without line of sight, Melee Influence can disintegrate rooms and halls, Octavia can teabag while clearing levelcap, most frames have easy survivability with little input, Dante is the outlier?

His Tragedy detonation didn't need LoS, but slash procs from 3 did. Meaning that you still had to actively cast a lot and mark groups, especially if they were behind walls. It worked perfectly - mark groups, go where you need, cast several times, and detonate for a good finisher. Now, some enemies will still be alive, which feels terrible.

Overguard was paper-thin on any slightly higher levels. Plus, to cast his Overguard, he needed to cast 2 - and his main damage combo requires two consecutive casts of 3, so if you get Overguard, you reset your combo. It wasn't free, it was far more interactive than pretty much any other defensive ability in the game. Sure, it trivialised Star Chart, but what doesn't? Gyre can activate 3 and 4 and clear anything in lower-level content. Higher-level requires some more input. And if we're talking only survivability, Styanax with augment, Wisp, Citrine, Trinity, Revenant with augment, they all can provide that with less input required. Dante is really cast-intensive, he pretty much demands constant casting.

Not only that, but the issue of Overguard preventing on-damage abilities and mods is still present. The one thing that was actually a problem.

Pageflight's status vulnerability on top of that was just unnecessary. It's not like it's an AoE mark that increases all damage, enemies needed to be hit for slightly more status damage. We have subsumable Roar that double-dips on DoTs, Saryn can triple-dip her Toxin buff with some weapons, and slight status increase on some enemies is too much?

Seriously, those changes need to be reverted. It's so unnecessary. If anything needed to be nerfed, maaaaybe make so his Tragedy's damage boost and Pageflight's damage increase only work on his ability procs and not weapons, but otherwise, he was perfectly balanced, not even slightly OP. He was fun and that's why he was played a lot. His release was perfect - especially compared to the previous frame releases - and now he's only more annoying to play.

[Rognyr]

9 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

LoS nerf was a good call. People complaining don't understand the synergy potentials with Saryn and other DoT applications for higher level damage scaling. Ya'll just mad because he isn't brain dead any more. Stay mad, I'll enjoy playing Dante a hell of a lot more now that he isn't a 3 button mashing combo bot with infinite defense.
 

PLEASE don't change this DE. Ignore the butt hurt comments of people who had and lost. If Dante was released like this, no one would even have complained.

No one would have complained cause he only would have been used by a very small niche community outside of mastery xp....hope you have more pleasantries then what you expect us to have....

[ToastyGrimlock98]

6 minutes ago, Nalfgar said:

Yes, birds don't have the effect of increasing status damage anymore. You're delirious if you think that's not a huge damage nerf. All they do now is increase status chance.

It is effectively a damage output decrease, even if it hides behind a LOS change. Want to kill those enemies that you can see but that are below you? Have fun running up and down the stairs.

I guess DE thinks if we nerf saryns range by 95%, it's not really a nerf to her damage since the output is the same. Dumb logic. I would 100% take a 20-30% damage nerf over LOS.

Tragedy actually has pretty solid downward reach. Far better than the disaster that is Lavos’ range.

Range and LoS are 2 very different things. Saryn would probably be fine if spores had LoS for spread. But nobody would be fine if their range got reduced to 3m.

We both know spamming Dark verse bumps up Tragedies damage. A 30% damage decrease is just an extra couple of casts of Dark verse to compensate for that loss.

[TheBlackAce21]

Just now, crazywolfpusher said:

Pillage and Fireblast suffer from the same. There are a bunch more but yeah, LoS is messy across the board.

 

LoS needs fixed for sure for this reason.

[Cross667]

First off, from the intro paragraph of the Dante changes: "After much review and feedback consideration, we recognized that it’s not the damage Dante can deal that needed to be addressed, but rather his accumulation of Overguard." followed up with, "Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight."

You said one thing and immediately did the other. This is a huge decrease to the amount of damage he can deal, and is frankly unnecessary. In usage, it fails to affect enemies slightly below my elevation, as in an enemy I can see that is standing on stairs is unaffected by Tragedy. The difference is noticeable and frustrating.

[AesirDuke]

3 minutes ago, Aiden85 said:

The LOS nerf to Tragedy was way too much and on top of that in testing even enemies right in front of me are surviving that didn't before. Did you stealth nerf the DMG too? Also why this change at all? You had to cast his 3 twice before you could even cast Tragedy making it really energy intensive. I understand the Overguard but something is seriously wrong with Tragedy now.   

Paragrimms previously had the apparently unintentional effect of increasing status damage to targets. That 'fix' has further destroyed Dante's capabilities. 

[Suiseii]

12 minutes ago, Suiseii said:

The worst part of the tragedy nerf is that other enemies block the LOS, meaning if you have an enemy using another as a meatshield they will completely dodge tragedy

Furthermore, I dont need to specify whats wrong with the below sample.

[MightyMike87]

Will not be using Dante again, I believe he is now utterly useless. A chair in front of him blocks him using his ultimate ability on an enemy 10 metres in front of you. Pathetic from all involved. Hes been out a grand total of 7 days, accessible for 4 from people who were lucky enough to farm him on day 1 and wait for him to build and he’s already been changed.

[Roble_Viejo]

I can't believe they nerfed everything EXCEPT the Overguard regen to allies, which was the single most problematic Ability on his kit.