Are all new warframes dead on arrival ?

[NameLessFreak]

42 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No idea why Dagath gets brought up so often. She's been one of those frames that have been great out the door without any need for a tweak or buff. We've had few bad frame releases overall.

Yareli, Calibum and Corvex are really those that stand out, but Yareli is currently a massive murderer thanks to the augment. Qorvex is solid but could use something to help his skills kill.

Because in anything above lvl 50 Dagath barely holds onto the mid category. 

[Psianide73]

I bought Dante... I do not want any sort of compensation. 

I'm perfectly happy with him as he now is. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Kullervos and Dagaths effective areas aren’t even remotely close. And Dagath requires her 1 to spread doom. And her 1 takes forever to actually cast outwards. Kullervo is “3,1, everything in the room is dead”

It's a 65 degree cone while Dagath is just a wide straight line. It isnt really an issue to spread doom either, since tapping scythe is something you do on the go and and it has insane range while also piercing enemies to hit several per cast, where each one hit spread doom further.

My point was really just that both have the same playstyle "role" as pure damage dealers. With the benefit of Dagath also providing debuffs for the group.

10 minutes ago, NameLessFreak said:

Because in anything above lvl 50 Dagath barely holds onto the mid category. 

Then you arent building or playing her properly at all since she can go full caster with no trouble throughout a 2h SP fissure survival. Constant gating aswell as tons of ehp potential with the right build(s) while 1HKing practically everything, including things like nullifiers and eximus. Plus most things are moving at a crawl thanks to scythes.

[helioth137]

turns out the buffed Dante again, i think it's a good middle ground: 

Now, it considers not only the enemies that Dante sees but also those visible on screen/via the camera—so any part of them, big or small, is considered visible/eligible to pass the LoS check.  

• To break that down a bit deeper: 
  •  Enemies positioned directly behind or in front of Dante 
    • We have made it so that enemies within 5 meters of Dante are automatically considered visible; no LoS checks are required. 
  • Enemies barely in cover or who had just run to cover
  • Enemies positioned at a different height to Dante where they are still partially in view 
     

    Light Verse and Triumph Overguard Increases: 
    The second pillar of feedback we want to address is our changes to Dante’s Overguard capabilities. We went too deep with the initial decrease and are, therefore, bumping up the Overguard gain from Light Verse and Triumph to a middle ground between their pre- and post-balance states.   

  • Increased the Overguard gained from Light Verse from 250 to 350 at Max Rank.
  • Increased the Overguard gained from Triumph from 2000 to 3000 at Max Rank.
     

Edited April 6 by helioth137

[KhajiitDova]

On 2024-04-05 at 1:28 AM, Waeleto said:

So Dante's release was amazing, he was smooth and felt good to play and in a span of a week he got absolutely GUTTED in both the things he did.

When we look back at the past 2 release which are Dagath and Qorvex we can now see so many problems and flaws in their kits, they're not bad they are just as average as it gets, both of them didn't get a single change and are shaping to be very forgotten.

So we have 2 kinds of releases, one that is an amazing release and immediately gets nerfed, the other is a mid release that gets completely forgotten by bot DE and the playerbase (probably until they get a band aid augments and that too will be nerfed) so in theory i shouldn't be hyped about any new warframe ?

If we know for a fact that if the warframe releases good they will be nerfed to the ground and if they release mid/bad/unsatisfying to play they won't get any attention doesn't this mean that all new warframes are now dead on arrival ?

I'm not sure what you mean by the number have not changed. If you the caps haven't changed then sure that may be true, I don't really know. But what I DO know is that with one cast of triumph I was getting 45 to 55k og, now with the exact same build i am getting 10-15k og with a single cast.

 

I am not complaining but pointing out that there is definitely a difference in numbers somewhere and trying to understand what you were saying.

[Aruquae]

Nah, Dante wasn’t dead on arrival

They just murdered him shortly after being born 

[MetalMechabolic]

3 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Nah, Dante wasn’t dead on arrival

They just murdered him shortly after being born 

No, that's a bit much.  Dante just looked like he was close to competing with the Doctor's baby and they just dropped Dante on the head a little.  Nothing that will kill him, just make him a bit slower, lol.

[Packetdancer]

On 2024-04-05 at 5:47 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

"way ahead of you, Tenno! we already nerfed jade while she's still a WIP!" - DE probably.

Isn't that kind of the preferable option, though? That the frame gets balanced before release rather than being adjusted after players have their hands on it?

That said, to some extent, I sympathize with them; putting on my game-developer hat instead of my player one... there's a reason devs like to take the old "no plan survives contact with the enemy" and twist it to suit game-dev with "no balance survives contact with the players," after all. If they find 10 ways to mess with a frame or weapon's balance and play with them pre-release, we'll find 12 more, of which 2 will render the thing brokenly OP. That's hardly a thing unique to Warframe or DE.

(I do think doing a rebalance one week after release is a little bit more of a snap judgment than I'd personally have gone for, admittedly, but I grant they may also have had numbers we're not privy to which rendered the situation more dire than I realize.)

On 2024-04-05 at 9:09 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Dagath aswell since her Doom keeps spreading, so no need for constant prepping, so can just horse around mostly.

Don't you mean "just kaithe around," what with this being Dagath? :P

Edited April 9 by Packetdancer

[Waeleto]

24 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Nah, Dante wasn’t dead on arrival

They just murdered him shortly after being born 

This is what i meant, we know if a warframe is average like dagath/qorvex they'll remain average and if a warframe is good like dante they'll be nerfed to the ground, so why should we ever be hyped for a new release ?

[Sambhaid]

I feel like the only reason someone might consider Dante dead now is if they just threw the guy into helminth after reading patch notes. I play him and he is strong as hell even after nerfs 👍

[SneakyErvin]

45 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

Don't you mean "just kaithe around," what with this being Dagath? :P

Exactly, aswell as beating people up with a dead kaithe and not the otherway around.

[Askell91]

Not the first and not the last time they did this.

The thing that hurts the community the most is the statement they would like to avoid nerfing (tweak xd) things, and they put an emphasis in the Devstream before release they don't want to repeat an update where they nuke it right after release.

Than they proceeded to do exactly that. (and I'm not olny talking about Dante here >_>)

The Los they added doesen't even work properly. The 3 layer check thing they added did not worth much to be honest. It's STILL bugged. I suppose they promised they will fix it, but who knows at this point what we can belive.

There are better options to bring to higher level content than Dante.

Saryn, Mirage, Mag, Mesa, Revenant, for some example will bring more to the table than him +Stynax can pump OG more consistently than him +energy and shields. There is only one reason to pick him now. It's the new shiney thing and want to have some fun with it. If everything goes as ususal It will be displayed next to the max it than dump it frames in the closet.

It must be even hard to pick who to listen to. The inexperienced pack who never seen mobs higher than a 100 in SP max but loud as hell says he is OP. The nolifer pack says he is fine becouse he barely pulls higher kill/minute numbers than the other warframe. Who knows witch to pick but one is for sure. You can't make everyone happy.

In all honesty DE should improve his 334 a bit. He was intended to be played on higher levels and the new contents we are getting reflects that. Plus he is put prety late into the quests. Unless someone straight up buys him there is no shot he would be available for a while + newer players would not be able to build him out to be that OP as the loud part of the community says. In my opinion he was fine, but not like that matters or will matter. xD

I can't approve of how DE is handling this update at all. I don't know if they are just chosing the Hello Games style path of full radio silence and work on fixing things but I hope they would do something before the community goes wild again. xD

[TARINunit9]

On 2024-04-05 at 2:03 AM, Stormandreas said:

Mirage? Prism needs LoS

I thought it already had that, what with the whole "laser" thing?

[Stormandreas]

21 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I thought it already had that, what with the whole "laser" thing?

It does, that's the point I was making.

The fact people were (and still are) crying that Dante is dead because Tragedy now needs LoS, is insane, considering so many other extremely potent frames have LoS checks.

 

On 2024-04-09 at 7:26 PM, Askell91 said:

Not the first and not the last time they did this.

The thing that hurts the community the most is the statement they would like to avoid nerfing (tweak xd) things, and they put an emphasis in the Devstream before release they don't want to repeat an update where they nuke it right after release.

Than they proceeded to do exactly that. (and I'm not olny talking about Dante here >_>)

The Los they added doesen't even work properly. The 3 layer check thing they added did not worth much to be honest. It's STILL bugged. I suppose they promised they will fix it, but who knows at this point what we can belive.

There are better options to bring to higher level content than Dante.

Saryn, Mirage, Mag, Mesa, Revenant, for some example will bring more to the table than him +Stynax can pump OG more consistently than him +energy and shields. There is only one reason to pick him now. It's the new shiney thing and want to have some fun with it. If everything goes as ususal It will be displayed next to the max it than dump it frames in the closet.

It must be even hard to pick who to listen to. The inexperienced pack who never seen mobs higher than a 100 in SP max but loud as hell says he is OP. The nolifer pack says he is fine becouse he barely pulls higher kill/minute numbers than the other warframe. Who knows witch to pick but one is for sure. You can't make everyone happy.

In all honesty DE should improve his 334 a bit. He was intended to be played on higher levels and the new contents we are getting reflects that. Plus he is put prety late into the quests. Unless someone straight up buys him there is no shot he would be available for a while + newer players would not be able to build him out to be that OP as the loud part of the community says. In my opinion he was fine, but not like that matters or will matter. xD

I can't approve of how DE is handling this update at all. I don't know if they are just chosing the Hello Games style path of full radio silence and work on fixing things but I hope they would do something before the community goes wild again. xD

So just to counterpoint:

• Saryn - no LoS
• Mirage - LoS
• Mag - No LoS though her Pull and Magnetize basically don't work without it, and honestly, I'd prefer if they did have LoS as enemies wouldn't get stuck in walls and corners then.
• Mesa - LoS
• Revenant - LoS
• Styanax - LoS and yes, pumps out OG, but no, does not do it as much as Dante. Dantes OG generation is prevalent on 2 things. Casting 224, and then getting kills.

With Dante, he's easily one of the most powerful frames we've ever had. He has no issue doing endurance runs, and can very easily carry a team. Multiple times I ran him in Void Cascade with a squad, outkilled everyone, and never ran out of Overguard.
His 224 gives a burst of overguard, and then constant OG generation should you be getting kills. This is how you upkeep his OG.

His 334 reaches true damage into the millions across an ENORMOUS area. No other frame can boast that, and it very easily oneshots enemies past level 1k. A friend of mine who mains Gyre, has struggled a lot to upkeep her timers when I was on Dante, because I was just blasting everything to kingdom come.

The "issue" (if you can call it an issue), with Dante, is he requires some thought into building him. He has a few things you need to consider. Casting speed, Energy, Spacing/Positioning, and Ability/Grimoire rotation (as you'd want Roar on his 1 as it's FAR more effective than the Noctua).
Because of these things, he actually has a low skill floor due to the overguard, but a high skill ceiling. Use him right, and he blows every other frame out of the water. Use him bad, and he's usable, though way less effective than other options.

[Aruquae]

4 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

A friend of mine who mains Gyre, has struggled a lot to upkeep her timers when I was on Dante, because I was just blasting everything to kingdom come.

I wonder, how does your friend use Gyre to survive? I use a mixture of shield tanking, CC, and killing things before it kills me. 

[Stormandreas]

1 minute ago, Aruquae said:

I wonder, how does your friend use Gyre to survive? I use a mixture of shield tanking, CC, and killing things before it kills me. 

Pillage.

That's the general go-to for Gyre. She struggles with 2 things, survivability when she gets hit, and armour. Pillage solves both of those issues.

[Askell91]

20 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

So just to counterpoint:

• Saryn - no LoS
• Mirage - LoS
• Mag - No LoS though her Pull and Magnetize basically don't work without it, and honestly, I'd prefer if they did have LoS as enemies wouldn't get stuck in walls and corners then.
• Mesa - LoS
• Revenant - LoS
• Styanax - LoS and yes, pumps out OG, but no, does not do it as much as Dante. Dantes OG generation is prevalent on 2 things. Casting 224, and then getting kills.

With Dante, he's easily one of the most powerful frames we've ever had. He has no issue doing endurance runs, and can very easily carry a team. Multiple times I ran him in Void Cascade with a squad, outkilled everyone, and never ran out of Overguard.
His 224 gives a burst of overguard, and then constant OG generation should you be getting kills. This is how you upkeep his OG.

His 334 reaches true damage into the millions across an ENORMOUS area. No other frame can boast that, and it very easily oneshots enemies past level 1k. A friend of mine who mains Gyre, has struggled a lot to upkeep her timers when I was on Dante, because I was just blasting everything to kingdom come.

The "issue" (if you can call it an issue), with Dante, is he requires some thought into building him. He has a few things you need to consider. Casting speed, Energy, Spacing/Positioning, and Ability/Grimoire rotation (as you'd want Roar on his 1 as it's FAR more effective than the Noctua).
Because of these things, he actually has a low skill floor due to the overguard, but a high skill ceiling. Use him right, and he blows every other frame out of the water. Use him bad, and he's usable, though way less effective than other options.

I don't realy see where you are going here tho. I have not said he is bad, (they need to fix the Los tho...) I said there are better options.  Sure Dante gives more og but, Stynax is better becouse he can continously pump okay ish damage while supporting the team with everything above while Dante only gives og.

[Aruquae]

21 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Pillage.

That's the general go-to for Gyre. She struggles with 2 things, survivability when she gets hit, and armour. Pillage solves both of those issues.

Ahhh I see

All roads of Gyre leads to pillage

[Stormandreas]

1 hour ago, Askell91 said:

I don't realy see where you are going here tho. I have not said he is bad, (they need to fix the Los tho...) I said there are better options.  Sure Dante gives more og but, Stynax is better becouse he can continously pump okay ish damage while supporting the team with everything above while Dante only gives og.

Where I'm going is I'm saying you're wrong.

If you think all Dante can do is pump out OG you're very wrong. Given how he nukes, and the sheer absurd amount of damage he does, he outkills and outdamages Styanax with ease, while also generating OG, and in larger quantities too.

[Askell91]

28 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Where I'm going is I'm saying you're wrong.

If you think all Dante can do is pump out OG you're very wrong. Given how he nukes, and the sheer absurd amount of damage he does, he outkills and outdamages Styanax with ease, while also generating OG, and in larger quantities too.

I never said he is only good at "pumping out OG" (this sounds wrong .....). I said those frames have higher kill/minute than him. It's up on Youtube and Reddit too. You can check it if you want. Numbers don't lie. For the 3rd time Stynax is better becouse he provides more as a support (energy,og,shields) + some damage compared to Dante. He brings more to the table.

Dunno why you sound so salty tho xD

[Gaxxian]

hace 7 minutos, Askell91 dijo:

Stynax is better becouse he provides more as a support (energy,og,shields) + some damage compared to Dante. He brings more to the table.

He also full strips armor with a not very high Str requirement.

[HermlT]

3 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

He also full strips armor with a not very high Str requirement.

you dont really need to strip when you already amplify bleed procs as your main dmg source, so dante doesnt even have a str threshold for dealing with armor.

[Gaxxian]

hace 11 minutos, HermlT dijo:

you dont really need to strip when you already amplify bleed procs as your main dmg source, so dante doesnt even have a str threshold for dealing with armor.

True, but that gives him an advantage killing Acolytes too ^^!

[Stormandreas]

4 hours ago, Askell91 said:

I never said he is only good at "pumping out OG" (this sounds wrong .....). I said those frames have higher kill/minute than him. It's up on Youtube and Reddit too. You can check it if you want. Numbers don't lie. For the 3rd time Stynax is better becouse he provides more as a support (energy,og,shields) + some damage compared to Dante. He brings more to the table.

Dunno why you sound so salty tho xD

They absolutely don't XD

The sheer fact Dante can outdamage and outkill a styanax with ease is evidence of that.
I'd like to see Styanax dish out 3mil damage every 5 seconds to every enemy in the room.

But yaknow, what do I know when I'm oneshotting level 800 Thrax (hotfix 35.5.4)

Spoiler

https://clips.twitch.tv/SoftScrumptiousTortoisePJSugar-Y28_FfaXGwyracw3

 

Edited April 10 by Stormandreas

[Psianide73]

22 hours ago, Askell91 said:

Dante only gives og.

 

20 hours ago, Askell91 said:

I never said he is only good at "pumping out OG"