PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.4

[ManiekPL]

DE don't you see the problem? in dante 4 skill skill aoe in no work like skill aoe 

in warframe is a lot walls !?!?really !?!?! and this wall they don't let me see enemy .

or make them flat maps in warframe 

Edited April 5 by ManiekPL

[RainThaBeast]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Jeez.. DE wtf .. you nerf a frame 5 days old, thousands of complaints, you're listening to something but not paying attention to said complaint issues.  Reminds me on Khora.. you nerfed her with your pitiful attempt at LOS back then and havent been able to fix her for what 2 years.. just stop digging bigger holes and revert the Dante nerfs, and get back to making bug fixes for the rest of the game stopping bugs.  Dante was one of the best playing, most enjoyable warframes you have ever released, and you whacked him with the ugly hammer within a week.. crazy decision making happening somewhere at DE..

100% agree. He needs to be revert ASAP. He is one of the only frames I actually spent money to buy and he got nerfed a day later. Absolutely insane.

[XioValency]

54 minutes ago, Amen-san said:

Okay, so if Dark Verse already has an LoS restriction to it, then why does Tragedy having one matter if you needed Dark Verse for it to deal damage? 

 

Also where did I white knight? I literally said I expect people to complain if it's reasonable. But people are just throwing insults around. That's not helpful criticism. 

Because you can tag an enemy with double dark verse and fail the detonation if they run behind a box, it's meant to be a mark you explode to kill, but by the very nature of it being a dot, it doesn't function on cover rich areas which the game is full of meaning the synergy falls apart.

Tragedy was meant to not have los because it's meant to detonate an ability that does, it's why it's fair, imagine if the castana or aegrit was los based after tagging, it would make them even worse mechanically why have the set up? should I just Roar and quad dark verse instead since it kills through walls?

[AxelFlussbach]

3 hours ago, MortalMercenary said:

So now instead of being able to have a chance at getting all points if you don't happen to have the gear provided on weekly reset you have to rush farming it out in less than a week in order to get enough points for all rewards.

 

Great change no notes.

 

3 hours ago, PajamaGamer said:

• Fixed the Loadout options resetting daily instead of weekly (at usual reset time) as intended. 
  • All conditions for Deep Archimedia are on a weekly reset, so the Loadout Modifiers follow this standard. 

Please have this be a daily reset. If you get awful choices for your frame or weapons, you are essentially screwed for doing Deep Arcimedia for the entire week until reset. With a weekly reset, players will log on, see that what they rolled for the week is bad and then log off.

With a daily reset, players are incentivized to log in more often to check their options. Eventually, they will roll a frame or weapon that they like and is strong and will play the gamemode. The only reason I was able to unlite the Elite Arcimedia today was due to my loadout options rerolling to a frame and weapons that I actually had and liked to play. 

This is honestly just such a bad system. For Duviri you're at least given the random equipment if you don't happen to have it and for Arbitrations you can get 100% rewards even if you don't use the frame and weapons that would get the Arbitrations buff.

In Deep Archimedia you're at a great disadvantage if you don't happen to have the equipment or the equipment hasn't been modded/formaed to be up to the task.

[FabiTheSnake]

It´s absolutely fine that Dante got nerfed. 
His Triumph gives him additional shieldgating on kill, so basicly a constant Shield-gate above his regular Shields FOR A MINUTE!

I actually am playing him for the first time (lucky circuit visit) and i gotta say he is loads of fun as is.
I got no problem surviving, and the damage is good. got the atomos and it really nukes with barely any strength.

SO The nerf on Tragedy doesn´t really influence him at all. All it does is make it... Kinda weird.

Like he isn´t weaker or stronger, you just lack the ability to use is 3 and Tragedy harmoniously so to say,
since the first part goes through walls triggering slash, but the Finisher fails and makes it awkward.

The Actual Nerf to do would be to do the reverse, force LOS on his 3 and let his Tragedy trigger on the whole map. 
This should have been done Pre-release though, now i think it´s too late to do something like that.

THE GOOD THING however; Now LOS is getting checked, which for everyone who saw Brozime´s segment about it, yeah that explained all criticism to me. 
I think something like a Base + Scaling range would be good? 
It just defies a range-focus to be affected by LOS, so the 5 Meters Scaling with range would be atleast a little nice i think?

[Kappa1990]

This kind of nerfs was by far the stupidest thing DE did for a while and the worst part of it was that Rebecca in dev shorts said "No guys we are just stabilizing Dante he's super strong" and it sucks because of trust issues after that. Hope it will be the last LOS at least for a while, because I remember same thing happened to Khora for nothing. People are wasting resources and after nerfs it sucks.
Everything by far was going smoothly with the game and this was just unnecessary.

[TheBlackAce21]

1 hour ago, Sin3z said:

Tbf gauss's nuke still instakills all trash thats sub 150(just like dante, even key presses are similar hitting 3 twice and then holding it for the nuke) and agreed his defensive utility is def lower than dante but id say armor stripping targets completely outscales any offensive utility dante provides especisally considering that it enables the same 1 button nuke spam that other frames have. I also agree that not everybuff dante has needs to apply to the entire squad without, but they arent just percentage buffs to what your team does similar to roar, but are instead their own instance of damage at a diminished value which is reliant on dante building his tome in a specific way for that to matter. Otherwise the damage increase is negligable.

Overall I think you make fair points and i appreciate that you were willing to respond with your actual thoughts instead of just passing off my comment, but im not really convinced that his state really warranted changes that we got besides the overguard nerfs if anything really.

Also i understand striking a balance of using weapons and abilities, which i agree with, but i felt dante had that, i mean if you really wanted to get the most out of the frame you wouldnt really run weapons like the torrid and such but run something as a primer for increased damage on your casts. Regardless casting is what you would be doing most of the time and using weapons as primers let you double down on what you wanted to do anyways.

Funny you should say about passing off your comment, I was having the same thought about your reply.

Lots of things can kill trash sub 150 like a tactical nuke not just gauss. Gauss does it the easiest at scale because of the innate armor stripping but you can technically bring that on Saryn as well with Archon shards now, or by using helminth abilities. Terrify doesn't have LoS for example and requires pitiful strength to fully remove armor. Using armor stripping as a measuring stick for offensive utility isn't something I agree with. There are so many options to strip armor from companions to helminth to archon shards now. In terms of raw damage potential across the whole team, Dante IS far superior to Gauss. Pre-nerf more so. Yes Noctua needs to be built properly to take advantage but it does add value to everyones gun/melee CO by simply existing and that's as good as a % bonus buff to damage for everyone. Negligable to AoE probably because it only hits a few targets at a time and I think it has an internal CD? Just from watching it shoot.

I don't think Dante had balance between weapons and abilities. Just based on his performance in ESO alone, he could nuke the entire map, much less the room tile, and do it on repeat with the only limiting factor being how much energy regen mechanics you brought with you. Nourish + zen + energy nexus was what we used and it was laughable. Couldn't even get a gun kill in if you wanted to. Mirage can do it too but doing it on your own is semi difficult and you can still miss a few enemies here and there from item spawn RNG. (I think she still needs a slight nerf too but that's off topic).

To close, I really was never concerned with the damage potential of the ability on the surface. I was always concerned with the damage scaling it could add to every other nuke frame in the game through multipliers.

[zutoPrime]

remove the LOS  plz ?

[Styx_Prime]

Nice! 👍

[JUSTAN0TH3RDUDE]

Still requesting a refund for my 15$ Dante pack, you cant sell a product and then change it after the consumer bought it...

[Victaghost]

Could Nezha get a little bit of his augment range back? He still has the bug where Spears briefly affects Overguard units which drastically increases the strength of his augment build so I think that should be fixed and then see how it performs before removing so much range. Because of how area math works the "50% range reduction" actually translates to around 78% range reduction which is very overkill and just completely kills the build. Honestly you could even go the extreme route and remove the "Spear explosions apply 1.5x Status Damage." (and the range nerf ofc) and just keep it as a status spread and it'd still be a very fine buildaround augment, but it legitimately sucks that Nezha finally gets a build that isn't Rhino 2.0 and it gets gutted less than a week later.

Edited April 5 by Victaghost

[-AncientWarrior-]

30 minutes ago, FabiTheSnake said:

It´s absolutely fine that Dante got nerfed. 
His Triumph gives him additional shieldgating on kill, so basicly a constant Shield-gate above his regular Shields FOR A MINUTE!

I actually am playing him for the first time (lucky circuit visit) and i gotta say he is loads of fun as is.

And here is the best dumb-assed response...  happy Dante got nerf but never played him .. ok .. goooood  Joooob .

[Erekorn]

Los is not working just scale down the range, with the new tile set having more corners, curves and objects to obscure LOS it doesnt seem logical to use los for any ability in this game. 

[MrDerpHerpin]

1 hour ago, Skynet66 said:

You can remove them? Just go to the Helminth

i refunded dante for plat, but forgot to do that. thats why i submitted a ticket. if i can't get the shards back then oh well, lesson learned.

[sh0shin]

If they more broadly implement LoS checks, I will be sad. Imagine if Larva had LoS. I'd infuse a subsumed ability lol.

Are we eventually changing all AoE to LoS? Can we get more of the *why* behind these changes?

Also, apparently, I was wrong about Dark Verse and it was just very generous LoS already... My bad.

Still think DE really need to look at is fixing QoL and nerfing OG on allies. And then Nezha and Arca Titron please.

Appreciate your hard work! I know the feedback has been insane but I do really love this game and community. Thank you.

[Akoshus]

43 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

And here is the best dumb-assed response...  happy Dante got nerf but never played him .. ok .. goooood  Joooob .

Dante is still very good, crying over the forums will not help you. He is still levelcap capable, but oh no, enemies don't always die in a single cast, sometimes you have to cast twice, literally unplayable. Give me a break, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone but crying on everyone's behalf and getting mad at people who are okay with the tweaks is not going to solve anything. Let the small guy who couldn't get him immediately have their fun even in it's supposedly "much weaker" form.

[Zeow31]

il y a 4 minutes, Akoshus a dit :

Dante is still very good, crying over the forums will not help you. He is still levelcap capable, but oh no, enemies don't always die in a single cast, sometimes you have to cast twice, literally unplayable. Give me a break, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone but crying on everyone's behalf and getting mad at people who are okay with the tweaks is not going to solve anything. Let the small guy who couldn't get him immediately have their fun even in it's supposedly "much weaker" form.

Cast twice AKA 6 inputs in the middle of a fight, casts that will still miss if dante happens to block an enemy from sight, at this point just shoot the mofo and be done with it.

[iSiawPrime]

12 minutes ago, Akoshus said:

Dante is still very good, crying over the forums will not help you. He is still levelcap capable, but oh no, enemies don't always die in a single cast, sometimes you have to cast twice, literally unplayable. Give me a break, nothing is ever going to be perfect for everyone but crying on everyone's behalf and getting mad at people who are okay with the tweaks is not going to solve anything. Let the small guy who couldn't get him immediately have their fun even in it's supposedly "much weaker" form.

People aren’t mad about the damage, they’re mad about LoS being so inconsistent and badly implemented that even your own character model can block you from damaging enemies, this is to add to the fact that you need to prime enemies beforehand with an ability that already had LoS

[SeriousHawk22]

18 minutes ago, Akoshus said:

but oh no, enemies don't always die in a single cast, sometimes you have to cast twice, literally unplayable. 

Yeah! then a wall appears and you only killed a few enemies like in Mot or other maps full of walls. It's better to use Khora, Saryn, even Vauban, they do a better job than Dante and his LoS

Edited April 6 by SeriousHawk22

[AprilsVeryOwn]

1 hour ago, Skynet66 said:

You can remove them? Just go to the Helminth

Yeah but thats not the point. Is the community just supposed to take the L every time they make an incompetent decision? 
As if we didn't invest into their mistake already?

[Akoshus]

7 minutes ago, Zeow31 said:

Cast twice AKA 6 inputs in the middle of a fight, casts that will still miss if dante happens to block an enemy from sight, at this point just shoot the mofo and be done with it.

Did you read the part where I said levelcap? Because I am pretty sure you did not. Having to cast twice at levelcap is not the end of the world. Also complaining about having to use inputs in a videogame is the most warframe thing I read. Been playing for 10 years and this has always been a problem with the community. People will try to optimize the fun out of the game and when they can't oneshot levelcap content that 99,9% of the playerbase has not even done they cry. I am terribly sorry for your inconvenience of having to cast abilities as a checks notes caster.

[Kuwagata]

5 hours ago, Telluric said:

i feel like some (all) of you need to be reminded that "we are listening to feedback" DOES NOT MEAN "we will implement it". just because there's an overwhelming majority of people clamoring for a change does not mean that DE is required to implement it. at the end of the day, it's their game, they can put in any changes they feel is necessary for the betterment of it.

they are not "ignoring" your feedback or "not listening" to the community just because they're not making changes that you want. 

i am not the biggest fan of the los changes; they're super buggy and are inconsistent even with the hotfix just now. but just because DE isn't just undoing everything they've done and giving you all your precious nukeframe #47 back is because they're clearly trying to avoid nukebonanza #47 happening. i personally didn't like being in public matchmade squads with dante players in it because they would just nuke every room and i could never get in any kills. surprisingly, i also like to kill enemies, and dante being able to melt entire rooms in less than five seconds was really irritating, and i'm glad that los changes are being implemented in order to balance things out and give other players in parties a chance to kill at least some enemies. i definitely want these los changes looked at again and reworked, because as they are right now, even after the hotfix, they are still not what they should be.

but seriously, y'all, i've known from too much experience how brutal you guys can be when there's crap you don't like, but don't think for a second that a majority opinion means that DE is required to implement it in their game. provide all the feedback you want, i PROMISE they are listening and taking it seriously, but they are by no means required to obey it like it's the law. chill out. play saryn if you want a nukeframe. idk.

I hope you keep the same energy and discourse when they nerf your favorite frame and weapon, just tell people they have to accept bc why not?

[Zeow31]

il y a 10 minutes, Akoshus a dit :

Did you read the part where I said levelcap? Because I am pretty sure you did not. Having to cast twice at levelcap is not the end of the world. Also complaining about having to use inputs in a videogame is the most warframe thing I read. Been playing for 10 years and this has always been a problem with the community. People will try to optimize the fun out of the game and when they can't oneshot levelcap content that 99,9% of the playerbase has not even done they cry. I am terribly sorry for your inconvenience of having to cast abilities as a checks notes caster.

"Also complaining about having to use inputs in a videogame is the most warframe thing I read."

I love the sheer level of bad faith on display. My complaint wasn't about having to use inputs, it's the absurd lack of results and precision you get for that amount of input and since you seem to be a genius, let me precise that that makes a character annoying to play *real quick*

3 outputs wouldn't be bad if it didn't miss half the enemy group right in front of you. 3 outputs that still get less result than just shooting the mofo.

I love casters but this isn't caster gameplay, it's "let's annoy player until he just becomes another gun platform" gameplay.

Edited April 6 by Zeow31

[Gandalf_White]

1 hour ago, FabiTheSnake said:

The Actual Nerf to do would be to do the reverse, force LOS on his 3 and let his Tragedy trigger on the whole map. 

This should have been done Pre-release though, now i think it´s too late to do something like that.

It's literally how his entire kit worked before the awful nerf... Now it"s a double LoS check. One for Dark Verse, one for Tragedy. Ruins fluidity, makes the ability clunky, doesn't allow you to mark two different groups of enemies with his 3 to kill them with one use of tragedy.unless they are all somehow in front of you and in range of your abilty.

Edited April 6 by Gandalf_White

[BraveCowCow.]

I really like the irony that version 35.5 is called Dante Unbound. LOL

remove the LoS, it sucks