[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[Xahn]

I followed this thread, waiting to hear DE's response. Now that i've heard it, this marks the end of my time with Warframe. It had a good run, shame it had to end like this. Now if youll excuse me i have a bunch of youtube channels to unsubscribe from.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, LordOfKenpo said:

I can do the same sort of thing with Ember. But the idea of Ember needing a nerf because I can nuke Hydron is silly. 

And? You just proved that LoS works perfectly fine.

[Nero.DMC]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

There are different states of what they can consider happy with his damage. The damage is intact, the way to deal the damage changed, since it was likely considered disruptive. It had little impact where it matters (SP and above), so it wasnt a nerf to the damage itself.

And how is he nerfed in enclosed spaces? He always needed LoS due to Dark Verse. He is only changed in low content where others help you keep up the overall speed anyways. In those places you can instead you run around and Dark Verse things to death, yeah sure you wont clear the whole map per cast, but others will also have something little to do. A basline 30m 50 degree cone with slash damage should be... uhm sufficient to do low content quickly.

if you hit less enemies your damage is reduced by exactly the amount of enemies hit by the skill, if i dealt 100 to 100 enemies i did 100*100 damage, if i now hit 80 enemies for 100 damage i hit 80*100, his damage is not intact.

in enclosed spaced i ran a bit priming with dark verse first then detonate with Tragedy wich is how most ppl played him in enclosed spaces. Now that is no longer posible in enclosed spaces tragedy is now painfully useless. I am never going to talk about low level stuff, its irrelevant, if they made tragedy a 5m range for low level i would not care

[Tecstasy]

"We can't go back in time" Yes you can revert the los change

[DeadlyDullahan]

11 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

So it's basically "nerf range remove LoS" or "keep range keep LoS"

I'm gonna be honest, despite being against LoS from the start it might be the lesser evil here, Dante not having to build more than 1 range mod allows him to be VERY powerful and i don't want that to change 

I'll take the nerf range any day over a decrease in game performance quality due to several LOS checks having to be done on every cast of 3>3>4.

Just finished the Dev Stream and it's hilarious how spot on the observations from the community were on how they were going to handle this.

In regards to Dante's 4:

"The base range is huge, the hugest in the game"  THEN REDUCE IT

"I think if we took away the LOS change then I think we would need to reduce it" You mean doing the thing that has been suggested overwhelmingly by the community?

They just keep reinforcing the fact that they don't bother reading or listening to what the community is saying 😂

[sh0shin]

19 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

They said maybe gonna shrink the range of Dante's 4th ability which would be better think to do instead to try again to fix the buggy LoS thingy which nobody wants. But first of course gonna try fix it... again....

Disappointed but not surprised

3 minutes ago, Tecstasy said:

"We can't go back in time" Yes you can revert the los change

Rolling back patches is apparently not possible :V

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Nero.DMC said:

if you hit less enemies your damage is reduced by exactly the amount of enemies hit by the skill, if i dealt 100 to 100 enemies i did 100*100 damage, if i now hit 80 enemies for 100 damage i hit 80*100, his damage is not intact.

in enclosed spaced i ran a bit priming with dark verse first then detonate with Tragedy wich is how most ppl played him in enclosed spaces. Now that is no longer posible in enclosed spaces tragedy is now painfully useless. I am never going to talk about low level stuff, its irrelevant, if they made tragedy a 5m range for low level i would not care

And your math is still the same as before, since you still hit the same amount of enemies with dark verse, you just happen to detonate it earlier aswell.

 

[ClockworkDirge]

Void that stream was a joke.

“We CaN’t rEmOvE LoS bECaUsE iT hAs tHe BiGgEsT rAnGe In ThE gAmE.”

Just reduce the range of the attack then and get rid of the buggy LoS that’s turned into a memory leak with your last “fix”

Bye Warframe. It was a good ride but you’ve done little with this recent debacle except fully rank my Prime Disappointment.

[Nero.DMC]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And your math is still the same as before, since you still hit the same amount of enemies with dark verse, you just happen to detonate it earlier aswell.

 

No, that is completely wrong, now in order to hit the same enemies i used to prime i would have to do 2  or 3 full rotations of 334, before i could just mark with 3 and detonate when i felt i covered enough enemies, its a huge dps loss.

I think you need a refresher at math, if i cast 3 abilities now lets asume instead of hitting the 100 enemies thanks to los i only hit 80 from the 100 i marked, so the damage dealt with 80*100 = 8000, before i could prime the 100 enemies and hit the 100 so its 100*100 = 10.000 so wich one is the bigger number?

and that is being generous in some tiles you are hitting less than 20% of the enemies you used to be able to hit.

Edited April 9 by Nero.DMC

[LordOfKenpo]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And? You just proved that LoS works perfectly fine.

That particular map has very little to block LOS in many cases. On many other maps, Ember feels useless. I was pointing that the logic behind nerfing a frame because they can nuke Hydron is bad since a frame that should on no account be nerfed can do the same thing. You can nuke most maps on regular path with any frame with Thermal Sunder subsumed onto it.

Edited April 9 by LordOfKenpo

[spider_enigma]

1 minute ago, Nero.DMC said:

No, that is completely wrong, now in order to hit the same enemies i used to prime i would have to do 2  or 3 full rotations of 334, before i could just mark with 3 and detonate when i felt i covered enough enemies, its a huge dps loss.

and?

are you somehow saying the nerf isnt doing exactly what its supposed to do? (outside of los checks being and they are fixing them for all frames)

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

12 minutes ago, Xahn said:

I followed this thread, waiting to hear DE's response. Now that i've heard it, this marks the end of my time with Warframe. It had a good run, shame it had to end like this. Now if youll excuse me i have a bunch of youtube channels to unsubscribe from.

I feel bad for you man, I had to do the same with another game company

7 minutes ago, Tecstasy said:

"We can't go back in time" Yes you can revert the los change

Yes they can

Revet the LoS change, why the hek are they treating it like it's impossible task to do, you don't have to legit go back in time to stop yourself, what a lame excuse

4 minutes ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Just finished the Dev Stream and it's hilarious how spot on the observations from the community were on how they were going to handle this.

In regards to Dante's 4:

"The base range is huge, the hugest in the game"  THEN REDUCE IT

"I think if we took away the LOS change then I think we would need to reduce it" You mean doing the thing that has been suggested overwhelmingly by the community?

They just keep reinforcing the fact that they don't bother reading or listening to what the community is saying 😂

If they nerf the Range and remove LoS, I will be okay with this change!

However, like you said, they keep reinforcing the fact that they don't bother reading or listening to what the community is saying, no shock here.

3 minutes ago, sh0shin said:

Disappointed but not surprised

Rolling back patches is apparently not possible :V

Sure it isn't

[LordOfKenpo]

2 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

No, that is completely wrong, now in order to hit the same enemies i used to prime i would have to do 2  or 3 full rotations of 334, before i could just mark with 3 and detonate when i felt i covered enough enemies, its a huge dps loss.

Its also a huge energy loss

[DeadlyDullahan]

29 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

What a #*!%ing joke they said "try the new LoS" and we can speak in the future... they are not going to do S#&$, i knew it...

we already tried them and we dont like them...

Yea I love that their take boiled down to "I understand you hate chocolate cake but give us a week because we're working on tweaking the recipe to make a more delicious chocolate cake, just try it." like buddy we don't care about the ratio of sugar to milk you put in the chocolate cake we just don't like it. period.

They literally sound like a parent trying to force their kid to like something that they've clearly expressed dislike for and then blaming the child for not liking it.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 minutes ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Yea I love that their take boiled down to "I understand you hate chocolate cake but give us a week because we're working on tweaking the recipe to make a more delicious chocolate cake, just try it." like buddy we don't care about the ratio of sugar to milk you put in the chocolate cake we just don't like it. period.

They literally sound like a parent trying to force their kid to like something that they've clearly expressed dislike for and then blaming the child for not liking it.

This ^

Agree with you 100% OP

[LordOfKenpo]

4 minutes ago, DeadlyDullahan said:

Yea I love that their take boiled down to "I understand you hate chocolate cake but give us a week because we're working on tweaking the recipe to make a more delicious chocolate cake, just try it." like buddy we don't care about the ratio of sugar to milk you put in the chocolate cake we just don't like it. period.

They literally sound like a parent trying to force their kid to like something that they've clearly expressed dislike for and then blaming the child for not liking it.

This is a great metaphor for it

[ShaloomHD]

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

3 presses yes, over and over, but he also hit everything on the map with that third press. There is time to actually kill things with a Saryn around, but Dante was like an accumulated Enox, where he popped the baloons instantly. But I also do think Saryn needs some form of nerf overall. With stretch and augur reach, Dante covered a whole defense map from edge to edge pretty much. And it isnt just that he wipes things on lower maps, he is overall a better frames than Saryn since he has instant access to scaling damage, which ignores armor and can be built somewhat reliably to ignore shields aswell (as if he would need it with the damage he deals). 

The main issue is that people talk as if he went from this monster DPS into Calibum. He is still a monster DPS and still one of the best frames in the game in practically every aspect with defensive and offensive buffs to provide for his team and himself. The only thing he doesnt really have is a way to defend objectives.

And it is due to those low missions it was nerfed since it was according to DE disruptive going by what they've said earlier in connection to Wukong and AoE changes. Yes I agree it is trivial damage outside lowbie missions and I wouldnt mind if it was removed together with LoS because it would keep him just as strong as he is for SP and beyond, while letting people skip around and prime things. I mean, there is little reason for him to nuke whole lowbie maps, since the missions will be cleared fast anyways with more people getting to do thing and with less risk you get a numbnut scribe that kills reactant flow in low fissures aswell. It is also better if that damage portion is removed since it will learn players how to play him higher up as they progress.

There are different states of what they can consider happy with his damage. The damage is intact, the way to deal the damage changed, since it was likely considered disruptive. It had little impact where it matters (SP and above), so it wasnt a nerf to the damage itself.

And how is he nerfed in enclosed spaces? He always needed LoS due to Dark Verse. He is only changed in low content where others help you keep up the overall speed anyways. In those places you can instead you run around and Dark Verse things to death, yeah sure you wont clear the whole map per cast, but others will also have something little to do. A basline 30m 50 degree cone with slash damage should be... uhm sufficient to do low content quickly.

the top part his damage is bad on high levels is 4 does nothing on high levels without his 3  i rather them remove the base damage of his 4 then he cant nuke low level sh it and we get him back how he semi was is 4 a detonation skill and better then Saryn lol she full strips no LOS on none of her skills and can nuke low and high levels and nukes rooms more then one dante cant even before the nerf lol better then Saryn lol 

Edited April 9 by ShaloomHD

[tartcactus]

So, let me get this straight. 

New Warframe is immensely popular with the early adopter crowd=Bad for the game

Rolled a knee-jerk nerf into a hotfix now claiming it is impossible to undo that screwup. Hmm, I remember the same thing being said about adding platinum to the first Regal Aya packs, and then suddenly it was possible. I am a developer too, people. It is possible, DE is just trying to convince us that the warm wet feeling we are getting is just a summer rain.

[Nero.DMC]

Just now, tartcactus said:

So, let me get this straight. 

New Warframe is immensely popular with the early adopter crowd=Bad for the game

Rolled a knee-jerk nerf into a hotfix now claiming it is impossible to undo that screwup. Hmm, I remember the same thing being said about adding platinum to the first Regal Aya packs, and then suddenly it was possible. I am a developer too, people. It is possible, DE is just trying to convince us that the warm wet feeling we are getting is just a summer rain.

I think they were referring about the sorry state the first hotfix was deployed in, i dont think they meant they cant undo LoS changes,  they actually said: if we remove it we are nerfing the range

[tartcactus]

By the way, I have had a refund ticket open for 5 days with no response.

[LordOfKenpo]

1 minute ago, tartcactus said:

So, let me get this straight. 

New Warframe is immensely popular with the early adopter crowd=Bad for the game

Rolled a knee-jerk nerf into a hotfix now claiming it is impossible to undo that screwup. Hmm, I remember the same thing being said about adding platinum to the first Regal Aya packs, and then suddenly it was possible. I am a developer too, people. It is possible, DE is just trying to convince us that the warm wet feeling we are getting is just a summer rain.

Also a developer, the amount of effort to rollback a change in most version control systems is just hitting a "revert" button on the PR and getting approvals on the new PR

[DeadS1lence]

Well, that was disappointing to watch. I personally would rather have the range reduced and LoS removed than keep that mess around.

[ShaloomHD]

1 minute ago, Nero.DMC said:

I think they were referring about the sorry state the first hotfix was deployed in, i dont think they meant they cant undo LoS changes,  they actually said: if we remove it we are nerfing the range

yeah and to me we shouldnt let them un nerf something with another BS nerf the only thing we should kind of accept his removing his base damage on his 4 so its stops nuking low level sh it 

[ParzivalGaming2]

you could remove LOS and add a hard cap on the range. 

[yeahnil]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeadS1lence:

Well, that was disappointing to watch. I personally would rather have the range reduced and LoS removed than keep that mess around.

Agred. Many people said just that. Funny enough if you make a thread in the Dante Feedback forum expressing the same thing regarding the dev short, it'll get nuked.

I guess censorship is their way of 'listening'.