PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.8

[[DE]Purzzle]

vor einer Stunde schrieb madtort:

are you going to fix Voydrig with his inability to use the first ability?

This bug sadly requires a Code Fix. We added it to our known issues thread for now:

 

[Darkbring]

Remove LoS from Tragedy

[CoffeeElemental]

53 минуты назад, Amolistic. сказал:

bolstered belligerents

I think it would become exponentially better if overguard gets replaced with just shields in this modifier. But not 50%, something like 25-30% because the damage types we use for the murmur are usually terrible vs shields (rad/heat/cor). And most importantly - CC wouldn't be completely useless with this.

[Void2258]

OK this only increases the need to add an indicator in the UI for when you have sprint toggled on. Otherwise I predict everyone will be constantly unable to tell the difference between sprint off and slowed, and LOTS of extra toggling will be happening. It;s already hard to tell in general when you have just been slowed (especially on frames with very subtle sprint vs walk animation changes).

[Zykk]

31 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

LMAO do you think you need skill to spam Tragedy? there is nothing to do about LoS beside spamming, there is no skill involved, you just spam it far more than before, removing the playstyle that would take actual skill to play, spamming has never been hard.

Line of Sight affects more than just Tragedy. Think of something other than yourself.

[TheBlackAce21]

Friendly reminder that the client only bug for Grimoire alt fire not working with Mesa's Ballistic Battery still exists. Still waiting on a fix and I use this interaction a lot so I'd really appreciate it 🙃

[Nero.DMC]

17 minutes ago, Zykk said:

Line of Sight affects more than just Tragedy. Think of something other than yourself.

Since people is asking only for the removal of LoS on TRAGEDY, and your response was for a comment about tragedy, i think you are just grasping at straws, nobody is asking for the removal of LoS globally.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed the damage increase from Xata’s Whisper unintentionally applying twice on the Phenmor and Laetum’s Devouring Attrition perk and the Felarx’s Devastating Attrition perk. 

took you long enough lmao

[Zykk]

2 hours ago, Awaidaqor said:

nobody will ever want LoS on anything. It's a fun killer.
 

This you?

[LittleLeoniePrime]

are you all "remove LoS people" too incompetent to simply.. y'know... jump up before casting an LoS ability? there's ways to almost counteract LoS as a player that have worked for years we can just stop complaining already and be happy about all the amazing changes DE already did put in place.

[Zykk]

Just now, LittleLeoniePrime said:

are you all "remove LoS people" too incompetent to simply.. y'know... jump up before casting an LoS ability? there's ways to almost counteract LoS as a player that have worked for years we can just stop complaining already and be happy about all the amazing changes DE already did put in place.

They just want to press one button to win. They should just play a clicker game instead.

[TheBlackAce21]

1 hour ago, Kerlism said:

Thanks for fixing nothing DE, still dealing with obnoxious RNG “difficulty” in (E)DA is as disasterous as ever, enemy overguard and other counter mobs still are mindless DPS fests that serve to only delete CC, and Dante remains clunky and completely disinteresting due to an unfitting LoS check and low amounts of overguard in comparison to other options that do it better. There’s so many damn suggestions to how to solve all of these yet you haven’t even considered a single one, you’d rather just plug your ears and scream to avoid actually making your game better in any way.

Sounds like a skill issue. Not surprising considering he requires actual thoughts now xD

[Inflictum]

2 hours ago, Zykk said:

You are incorrect. I am a player who would very much dislike the change you have suggested. I am fine with LoS affecting abilities. The fact that LoS making it so that you and others are unable to play very well is a skill issue. Not having LoS on abilities would be a fun killer for me, and others like me, who enjoy building our skills.

There is no skill issue when Dante is locked to a roughly 30 degree cone in front of him that's blocked by jars, benches, and turning slightly to the left or right. This also gets worse when you are not the host. Lag changes LOS interactions HEAVILY. The tick rate of checks with the host is atrocious and can mean that you miss 40-50% of your targets who are in clear LOS while not moving if you are running 150+ ping. Hard capping your ping limit is a must to play LOS frames.

There's also the fact that LOS checks vertical instances in the tile chunk you are in, not what's in front of you. A ramp behind you drops your hit rate on unobstructed mobs by roughly 20%. The game is somehow checking things that aren't from the ability point of origin and using that to determine LOS success. Still. Slight elevation changes shouldn't make a miss happen. Dante's view cone is apparently more narrow than that of a visible doorway, but since LOS doesn't make sense, you will regularly proc tragedy through a doorway on a mob that never entered the room. Not the rest of the group, just one or two dudes. Out of nowhere. There are Czech game developer studios from the early 2000s who just went "Hot damn at least we aren't Digital Extremes programming Line of Sight." and they are correct. This is jank that is unmitigated in its failed state.

*edit: spelling and punctuation are hard.

Edited April 24 by Inflictum

[Nero.DMC]

14 minutes ago, Zykk said:

They just want to press one button to win. They should just play a clicker game instead.

if you think warframe is a hard game i have bad news for you, its pretty dam easy, making stuff more annoying wont change how easy the game is.

You are searching for dificulty where there is none, annoying your players does not make your game any harder

Edited April 24 by Nero.DMC

[Kerlism]

14 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

Sounds like a skill issue. Not surprising considering he requires actual thoughts now xD

Obviously, major skill issue with my ability’s viability being decided by level geometry and a poorly designed system’s feelings for the day. The only extra thought he requires now is a camping mindset, fun right?

[Brynslustafir]

So Omnia fissures are still broken?

[vFlitz]

1 hour ago, Yulfan said:

Meanwhile, Sevagoth Deluxe skin is still a broken mess. But in DE's traditional fashion, once a new update cycle started, everything else that was still bugged before cease to exist…

 

Getting DE's attention for issues with deluxe skins that aren't brand new and at the height of their sales is like herding cats.

Wukong's deluxe got its stone material/texture degraded a while after release and it remains in this state to this day.

[Zykk]

38 minutes ago, Inflictum said:

There is no skill issue when Dante is locked to a roughly 30 degree cone in front of him that's blocked by jars, benches, and turning slightly to the left or right. This also gets worse when you are not the host. Lag changes LOS interactions HEAVILY. The tick rate of checks with the host is atrocious and can mean that you miss 40-50% of your targets who are in clear LOS while not moving if you are running 150+ ping. Hard capping your ping limit is a must to play LOS frames.

There's also the fact that LOS checks vertical instances in the tile chunk you are in, not what's in front of you. A ramp behind you drops your hit rate on unobstructed mobs by roughly 20%. The game is somehow checking things that aren't from the ability point of origin and using that to determine LOS success. Still. Slight elevation changes shouldn't make a miss happen. Dante's view cone is apparently more narrow than that of a visible doorway, but since LOS doesn't make sense, you will regularly proc tragedy through a doorway on a mob that never entered the room. Not the rest of the group, just one or two dudes. Out of nowhere. There are Czech game developer studios from the early 2000s who just went "Hot damn at least we aren't Digital Extremes programming Line of Sight." and they are correct. This is jank that is unmitigated in its failed state.

*edit: spelling and punctuation are hard.

Ah, actual counter-points. Hello! To start with, we do both agree on the numerous points you bring up.

The lag issue is definitely a noticeable one, I am aware. Is there even a way to fix this while playing with others though?

The LoS check not syncing with the ability-start-point is absolutely a valid argument! One I would also like to get fixed.

Vertical instance check issues I also agree with. I like to aim-glide over a group of enemies and cast aiming down, and sadly come across this issue.

 

I don't mind when objects like crates block my shot. I do mind when some nearly invisible bit of geometry blocks what should be hitting the bits of the enemy I can mostly see. Things like a lamp post. I do expect we will see more improvements on this front however with the work that the team is still doing in regards to Line of Sight.

I do find that most of the people complaining about Dante are just saying that his damage abilities should ignore crates, walls, floors, other enemies, etc. They don't care about any of the other abilities, only the one that does (big slash damage) have you noticed? Funny big number. Nothing else matters. They, unlike you, also do not offer any sort of constructive criticism. They just scream "revert nerf de" over and over. That is not a way to get changes made. You'd think they'd know this.

 

So yes, we do need more fixes. I agree.

[Nero.DMC]

15 minutes ago, Zykk said:

Ah, actual counter-points. Hello! To start with, we do both agree on the numerous points you bring up.

The lag issue is definitely a noticeable one, I am aware. Is there even a way to fix this while playing with others though?

The LoS check not syncing with the ability-start-point is absolutely a valid argument! One I would also like to get fixed.

Vertical instance check issues I also agree with. I like to aim-glide over a group of enemies and cast aiming down, and sadly come across this issue.

 

I don't mind when objects like crates block my shot. I do mind when some nearly invisible bit of geometry blocks what should be hitting the bits of the enemy I can mostly see. Things like a lamp post. I do expect we will see more improvements on this front however with the work that the team is still doing in regards to Line of Sight.

I do find that most of the people complaining about Dante are just saying that his damage abilities should ignore crates, walls, floors, other enemies, etc. They don't care about any of the other abilities, only the one that does (big slash damage) have you noticed? Funny big number. Nothing else matters. They, unlike you, also do not offer any sort of constructive criticism. They just scream "revert nerf de" over and over. That is not a way to get changes made. You'd think they'd know this.

 

So yes, we do need more fixes. I agree.

That's the only thing tragedy does, and if you want big numbers you should just use a weapon, a skill will never have the dps of weapons anyway... so sure lets keep using all warframes as weapon platforms, that's super "fun" and varied.

DE and ppl are scared of abilities actually being usefull and fun, game dificulty will never be attained by making the game annoying, it will be whenever they manage to make us interact with enemies in meaningful ways, there is no risk when you are not killing a offscreen enemy that you marked previously, there is no risk even if he is in the screen, all frames are practically immortal with the right build and the rest is just dealing damage.

[DomesticWizard]

Just remove line of sight on Dante's Tragedy. People want it gone because it ruins the fun of the ability. I will be happy even if the base range gets axed down to 15m since then there needs to be a sacrifice done for strength if you want more range.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

LOS on Tragedy is good, actually. He has other abilities, people.

[DomesticWizard]

Just now, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

LOS on Tragedy is good, actually. He has other abilities, people.

I love having an ability on a frame that is pretty much useless because a gun can do it better

[Inflictum]

42 minutes ago, Zykk said:

Ah, actual counter-points. Hello! To start with, we do both agree on the numerous points you bring up.

The lag issue is definitely a noticeable one, I am aware. Is there even a way to fix this while playing with others though?

The LoS check not syncing with the ability-start-point is absolutely a valid argument! One I would also like to get fixed.

Vertical instance check issues I also agree with. I like to aim-glide over a group of enemies and cast aiming down, and sadly come across this issue.

 

I don't mind when objects like crates block my shot. I do mind when some nearly invisible bit of geometry blocks what should be hitting the bits of the enemy I can mostly see. Things like a lamp post. I do expect we will see more improvements on this front however with the work that the team is still doing in regards to Line of Sight.

I do find that most of the people complaining about Dante are just saying that his damage abilities should ignore crates, walls, floors, other enemies, etc. They don't care about any of the other abilities, only the one that does (big slash damage) have you noticed? Funny big number. Nothing else matters. They, unlike you, also do not offer any sort of constructive criticism. They just scream "revert nerf de" over and over. That is not a way to get changes made. You'd think they'd know this.

 

So yes, we do need more fixes. I agree.

LOS as a whole needs the overhaul that Dante has kicked off. I'm in full support of this. I don't think kicking sand in the face of Dante over it was needed, though. I've been around long enough to have gotten tired of DE slapping very poorly done band-aids on things, calling it good, and then never admitting they were wrong on the back end of what was a scramble to take a huge mistake and make it less so, while never actually solving the base issue. My issue is that the core problems with LOS aren't based in the LOS system. It's base game like matchmaking, map collision, and ping being locked to all sorts of jank things like Status tick rate, damage levels, and the ability for doors and portals to spawn/work in general.

They've done this with everything from accuracy, movement, overguard, and wide reaching status nerfs. Spin-2-win was broken and hurt as a playstyle, but then they straight murdered the stat. Now it's riven bloat with no reason. Overguard killed CC as a concept straight up, and they keep making it worse by making less and less interact with it. Void Sling is 100% worse in every way to void dash and Meghan literally said "We know, it's here to stay" and refused to ever address it further. Accuracy is either 100% useless, or you can't hit any enemies at all. Nothing in between. It's hilarious. I tried a -acc riven on Kuva Chakkur and I couldn't hit a mob I was standing directly in front of and touching. All of these things got touched by DE, then "fixed" and ignored. Ping issues and processing issues were slapped into everyone's face with crossplay and now we're stuck with infinitely longer load times, janky doors that got worse, and portals that never open. Not to mention that FPS counters somehow interact with bullet collision and can drop your DPS from well over 11m to 1m just based on the host having capped 30fps versus 60, or more.

DE needs a whole scale AI overhaul, mission design pass, movement addressing, an entire team dedicated to bug fixing, and matchmaking and netcode that isn't straight out of the early 00's. They don't need new content, they need an overhaul. The problem is that they're only interested in getting us to shut up long enough for them to dangle the proverbial keys in front of our face as if we don't notice the house is on fire. It's not working and the community is pissed. We want fixes, not excuses, not band-aids, and not bad communication.

I love what DE does well. I love the idea of ninjas in space and the fluid movement. I'm tired of them chasing a forma sink in DAE and Duviri Circuit instead of actually fixing things we need. I'm tired of knee jerk nerfs because they see one statistical outlier in a PVE game and lose their mind. I'm tired of them being entrenched in the idea that the majority of players play normal starchart, which isn't true... At all. They claim to care about their playerbase, then don't address what the base actually needs. Or even ask us to tell them what we want or need.

Pablo alternates between genius and the laziest human alive. Reb doesn't know how damage actually even works in the game. Meghan spends most of her time dealing with strange thirsty dudes and ignoring real issues for random memes, and about the only people who have their stuff together for the most part is sound design and even that has bugs tied to netcode. I'm tired of the enS#&$tification that has happened since Tencent came to town. I'm tired of them going from a super community focused group to a squad of people who sweep issues under the rug and then hand us the opposite of what we ask for. We're not stupid. It's how we break their game and get damage caps and do three day runs of endurance, and delete your highest level enemies. It's how we find out insane little interactions and you, most of the time, justifiably nerf them because the game simply melts if you don't. Emergent gameplay is the entire business model that keeps F2P games alive. They need to stop throttling our fun, and instead make the base game better able to handle our shenanigans.

Edited April 24 by Inflictum
spelling and word choice is hard.

[Zykk]

35 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

That's the only thing tragedy does, and if you want big numbers you should just use a weapon, a skill will never have the dps of weapons anyway...

So let me get this straight. Out of all of the Warframes that we have, out of all of the abilities that we have. You only want one that's useful?

I highly doubt anybody is going to take you seriously as far as your "feedback" goes.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

25 minutes ago, Inflictum said:

I tried a -acc riven on Kuva Chakkur

There's no such thing as -accuracy on rivens.