PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.8

[Okami_Amaterasu]

10 hours ago, obiwandandobi2 said:

Credit where credit due DE, really enjoying the new EDA and with these new modifiers I'm looking forward to seeing how these play out. Won't lie I've been critical of some decisions in the past but this new game mode has been very refreshing and got me excited to see what other modes are introduced in the future. Loving this new direction DE is going

It's nice to have an actual challenge for once in this game besides Conclave.

[Ogger]

1 hour ago, Okami_Amaterasu said:

So, go in with a squad as it was intended?

Not everyone enjoys playing with others or even has the ability to. And even then they might just have bad loadouts as well. Having other people carry you because of rng is just not fun and I think games are actually kinda supposed to be fun.

[Slayer-.]

 

21 minutes ago, Ogger said:

Not everyone enjoys playing with others or even has the ability to. And even then they might just have bad loadouts as well. Having other people carry you because of rng is just not fun and I think games are actually kinda supposed to be fun.

I don't mind playing in pub squads when I can help the team but as I mentioned below, I'm getting nearly the same stuff each week so it's not worth it, I'll see what RNG gives me next week I guess.

18 hours ago, Ogger said:

the random loadouts are still a huge pain. If you get three cc focused frames, poor weapon choices you cannot complete deep archimedean by yourself.

I'm not even bothering to do this week's Elite Archimedea seeing as I got almost the same choices in warframes and weapons as last week, I own all warframes and 98% of the weapons but getting the same ones.

I like the new modes but this week's restrictions would be bad to tick them considering the Warframes and Weapons in the rotation, Fractured Armour, Abbreviated Abilities, Transference Distortion and ammo Deficit it's like I'm going to hell with those parameters. lol

[(PSN)UpIsntJump]

Any word on the hall of mirrors bug with the Torid Incarnon? Mirage's dopplegangers don't fire the gun when I have both active unless I get a doppleganger to hit a headshot THEN activating the Incarnon form

[yeahnil]

No comment on LOS - no pay/play. Same with most of my friends that used to play Warframe.

 

[RafMatador22]

22 hours ago, Ogger said:

the random loadouts are still a huge pain. If you get three cc focused frames, poor weapon choices you cannot complete deep archimedean by yourself.

I mean, these aren't missions designed to be played alone, and deep down you know that.

[DstroyR]

6 часов назад, DstroyR сказал:

I think, current rotation reward system also needs to be fixed, because even fissure variants looks like very cheap rewarding. Problem is:
there is no differences here between 1-st ABC rotation and all folowing ABC, reached in current run.

For example, in Alchemy 5-th completed Crucible just provide same chances for same rewards than 1-st completed Crucible, and same is true for all similar cases.
So, i have an idea about some rotation reward system improvements for regular and fissures endless modes:
Lets add "+" rotations, which must grant increased chances for rare rotation rewards, and must exclude from ABC+ drop list some rewards from regular ABC pool, such as credits, endo, regular resources and common mods etc.

For example, Alchemy ABC+ (all after 4-th Crucible completed) should provide increaced chances for Tennokai mods and chances to receive Axi relics (maybe with chances for shrill voca for A+, below voca for B+ and echo voca for C+), with reasonable excluding credits, endo, netracoils, Entrati obols and mandonel parts from possibly rewards pool.
My point is: harder work must be rewarded better.

Same rewarding system for 4 and for 32 Cruicibles done, it is absurdly pointless, i guess. You allows us possibility to play endless modes, but you don`t give us any motivation for this, because multiple runs till C rotation grants us same results as one big harder run with multiple C rotations reaching. It is very cheap and bad desighn of reward system, imo.

It is what i`m talking about here.
My solo Omnia SP Alchemy, done directly now (2 hours, 16 Crucibles completed).
Outcome is:
Meso relics: A5, B9(2), G6, W3;
Neo relics: W1, Z10(2);
TennoKai: Dreamer`s Wrath (from 1-st C rotation).
Other 3 of C rotations - just 1200 endo each.
No, thank you. I see no reason to play this mode more than till 1-st C rotation, then.
At enemy lvls at 4K - Entrati Obols, Netracoils, Credits and Endo as rotation rewards. Well, it is just bad joke, or you just don`t want us to play endless modes for interest growing as growing difficulty?
So, it is maybe answer, why Omnia missions extremely unnpopular in public matchmaking. Hope, you`ll finaly fix this, because it nearly nonsense in its current state=\
P.S. Please, do some also with Entrati Thalmin Coffers. No sounds, no scannable remnants when destroyed. What a problem to rework them and make them similar as other (Grineer, Corpus, Orokin, or even as Zariman`s molted cascs) rare and legendary containers?

[Johnprofit]

Been around since Mirage prime and bought a lot of your packs since then. Gotta say, the way you handled the dante fiasco is disappointing. Thanks for listening I guess.

[Do_High_Go]

8 hours ago, DstroyR said:

I think, current rotation reward system also needs to be fixed, because even fissure variants looks like very cheap rewarding. Problem is:
there is no differences here between 1-st ABC rotation and all folowing ABC, reached in current run.

For example, in Alchemy 5-th completed Crucible just provide same chances for same rewards than 1-st completed Crucible, and same is true for all similar cases.
So, i have an idea about some rotation reward system improvements for regular and fissures endless modes:
Lets add "+" rotations, which must grant increased chances for rare rotation rewards, and must exclude from ABC+ drop list some rewards from regular ABC pool, such as credits, endo, regular resources and common mods etc.

For example, Alchemy ABC+ (all after 4-th Crucible completed) should provide increaced chances for Tennokai mods and chances to receive Axi relics (maybe with chances for shrill voca for A+, below voca for B+ and echo voca for C+), with reasonable excluding credits, endo, netracoils, Entrati obols and mandonel parts from possibly rewards pool.
My point is: harder work must be rewarded better.

Same rewarding system for 4 and for 32 Cruicibles done, it is absurdly pointless, i guess. You allows us possibility to play endless modes, but you don`t give us any motivation for this, because multiple runs till C rotation grants us same results as one big harder run with multiple C rotations reaching. It is very cheap and bad desighn of reward system, imo.

   I agree that going Deeper should be more rewarding! However....
 "You allow us possibility to play endless modes, but you don`t give us any motivation for this" That is because they DON'T want you to have that motivation mate. Idk how long have you been around, but DE's general sentiment towards endurance runs has been on average Negative.

They don't want you to stay 2+ hours in a mission, because a longer mission means higher chance for something to break, means higher chance for you to lose your progress/loot, means you will be going in the forums and social media crying to get your stuff back or pointing out the problem you experienced, which in turn makes them look bad and incompetent in front of the public(and investors) and They Don't Want THAT!

So they chose to avoid such possible bad marketing situation, by disincentivizing You, from doing one Long run, training you like a doggy using negative reinforcement - You don't get more, so why would you do it like that right, better several shorter ones 😉

 It is basic psychology and it works. Better rewards for longer runs have been requested before, buuuut as you can see it has not happened yet. It doesn't mean it will never happen, who knows maybe this time it will be implemented.

I would not put my hopes up tho, since DE seems to doubt their own ability to build an experience that does not start to fall apart after few consecutive hours, and instead of trying to improve the stability more so they build back up their confidence as developers, they choose to deploy textbook psychological tricks to avoid the problem rather than solving it.... 🙃


 

[Karyst]

4 hours ago, DstroyR said:

It is what i`m talking about here.
My solo Omnia SP Alchemy, done directly now (2 hours, 16 Crucibles completed).
Outcome is:
Meso relics: A5, B9(2), G6, W3;
Neo relics: W1, Z10(2);
TennoKai: Dreamer`s Wrath (from 1-st C rotation).
Other 3 of C rotations - just 1200 endo each.
No, thank you. I see no reason to play this mode more than till 1-st C rotation, then.
At enemy lvls at 4K - Entrati Obols, Netracoils, Credits and Endo as rotation rewards. Well, it is just bad joke, or you just don`t want us to play endless modes for interest growing as growing difficulty?
So, it is maybe answer, why Omnia missions extremely unnpopular in public matchmaking. Hope, you`ll finaly fix this, because it nearly nonsense in its current state=\
P.S. Please, do some also with Entrati Thalmin Coffers. No sounds, no scannable remnants when destroyed. What a problem to rework them and make them similar as other (Grineer, Corpus, Orokin, or even as Zariman`s molted cascs) rare and legendary containers?

How much steel essence?

[TeaCrazy]

Quote

So I've been struggling to build up the day version of Peaceful Provocation whenever I have a Dante or Frost (Icy Avalanche) making my kit overly useless for the squad. Considering there was a Chroma Buff for that same thing, I would appreciate to have the gloom build up to still happen with overguard on.

Cheers,
TeaCrazy

Hopefully this can be fixed/looked at!

[Sin3z]

On 2024-04-24 at 3:01 PM, Zykk said:

You are incorrect. I am a player who would very much dislike the change you have suggested. I am fine with LoS affecting abilities. The fact that LoS making it so that you and others are unable to play very well is a skill issue. Not having LoS on abilities would be a fun killer for me, and others like me, who enjoy building our skills.

moving to have an enemy on your screen is not a skill lol, idk why people keep arguing about things taking skill in this game or not, nothing in this game is difficult even the modifiers for DA arent difficult, its all just minor inconveniences. this game isnt competitive and theres barely anything skill expressive in the game.

[Kerlism]

10 hours ago, RafMatador22 said:

I mean, these aren't missions designed to be played alone, and deep down you know that.

Well, not everyone wants to play with other people just so they can compete EDA. Keep in mind, if you want the max rewards from your search pulses each week you will be doing this mission, and all the solo players just have to suck it up if they get an awful rotation. Those players atm have to resort to the extremely engaging and tons of fun “go get carried lol” strategy that feels more like a chore than anything else. Key takeaway though, just because it isn’t designed for solo doesn’t mean it should be nearly impossible solo (especially when rewards are at stake).

[DstroyR_Prime]

8 часов назад, Karyst сказал:

How much steel essence?

140. Also, arcanes from Acolytes, Whisper and Gruzzling, so 700+ vosfor as outcome too. Sadly, was killed 2 times because of Acolites tricks, like teleporting me directly in pack of alarmed venom eximuses XD At this lvls even Loki`s hushed invisibilty not prewenting fckups like this, because Acolytes are somehow capable to ignore some aspects of Loki`s invis. For example, Malice`s magnetize and Torment`s corrozive barrage can ignore Loki`s invis. Only escape in operator`s void mode looks like one right move in such risky situations.

[Drake_MPrime]

That's nice, but Please DE fix the incarnon form of Felarx! We are in 2024 and after more than 2 years the gun in incarnon form is still sooo weak and basically useless! That's not okay guys!

[LittleLeoniePrime]

On 2024-04-25 at 1:58 AM, Darkbring said:

Jumping doesn't counteract LoS at all, and you can't jump everywhere. Most of the game is made up of corridor tiles filled with obstructive geometry. The main damage of Tragedy comes from detonating status procs, while the damage caused by Tragedy itself is also absolutely worthless in SP without being amped up by other means. As a result Tragedy is a Detonator ability that features multiple LoS checks and requires optimal positioning to not be a waste of energy, and this positioning also puts you in danger cause you can't detonate procs you just applied from a position that safe from enemy fire0 And that's while playing a game where fast paced movement across the maps is one of the key aspects of the gameplay loop. Do you REALLY don't see what the problem is, or are you just farming? This change wasn't "amazing", otherwise there wouldnt be literally hundreds of forum pages filled with the exact same complaint; "LoS on tragedy feels bad". 

my stance is that DE should've released with LoS in the first place and people wouldn't ask to have non-LoS back. And from what I gather that is their stance too and why they are trying to improve LoS tech rather than revert the "change" that should've been the release state to begin with.

We should be glad they are actually finally making strides to improve LoS and trust me LoS is far better now than it was before the patches. so you all can stop complaining and just imagine trategy released with LoS to begin with.

[RogueSyndiva]

On 2024-04-25 at 4:52 PM, RobWasHere said:

The main reason (probably) was that Tragedy does not detonate only things you tagged by Dark Verse, it detonates all heat, slash and toxin procs from whatever source in range, stealing kills from other people unblocked by walls. It's like max range Equinox in ESO.

We still have to aim or put in similar efforts in order to proc those status effects DoT to those enemies. This scenario I've created can go on forever if we were to keep on elaborating with the likes on AoE Weapons etc. So we'll just to leave this scenario as is for our sanity's sake.

As for the stealing kills from other players, it's a polarizing dilemma. On one hand some of us will treat that as helping our squad mates on killing the surrounding enemies to ease their problems and to ensure the success of the mission. We will call this the "Cooperation Mindset" which the game was intended to play as.

On the other hand, some of us will instead view this as what you've said, stealing kills that we should/could have rightfully had because we have put in efforts to set them up to be killed by us for that rush of satisfaction that was robbed from us by the other Dante players that on the off chance, might've been trying to help us or they simply cast Tragedy without realizing the enemies primed by us were in their close vicinity, thereby stealing our kills.

Of course, there's always a chance that those Dante players might be doing it on purpose as in trolling or being super competitive with in-game performance which in turn creates toxicity among players and generates stigma towards other Dante players because we tend to generalize people into the same group without much thinking. This other end of the spectrum, we will call it the "Lonewolf Mindset" because well, who doesn't enjoy being The Chosen One or The Main Character mowing down hordes of enemies in front of others for the sense of satisfaction/accomplishment?

Team players vs Lonewolf players, in short. 

The (Often times conflicting) nature of their distinctive gaming behaviors are what caused this type of arguments to pop up in every single online games out there, and Warframe is one of them as well unfortunately. This time, it's on Dante's Tragedy LoS Removal petition.

Such a long wall of text for a relatively short and seemingly direct response, this feels like overkill ngl.

Edited April 26 by RogueSyndiva
This feels like a thesis.

[Gaxxian]

hace 27 minutos, RogueSyndiva dijo:

On the other hand, some of us will instead view this as what you've said, stealing kills that we should/could have rightfully had because we have put in efforts to set them up to be killed by us for that rush of satisfaction that was robbed from us by the other Dante players that on the off chance, might've been trying to help us or they simply cast Tragedy without realizing the enemies primed by us were in their close vicinity, thereby stealing our kills.

Of course, there's always a chance that those Dante players might be doing it on purpose as in trolling or being super competitive with in-game performance which in turn creates toxicity among players and generates stigma towards other Dante players because we tend to generalize people into the same group without much thinking. This other end of the spectrum, we will call it the "Lonewolf Mindset" because well, who doesn't enjoy being The Chosen One or The Main Character mowing down hordes of enemies in front of others for the sense of satisfaction/accomplishment?

Luckly WF isn't a competitive game, everybody wins the same loot regardless of who made the kill, and the kill number doesn't affect anything in-game (except the player ego). So this isn't a problem at all :) Can you imagine what would happen when you kill more than others using Saryn otherwise? :P

[Darkbring]

5 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

my stance is that DE should've released with LoS in the first place and people wouldn't ask to have non-LoS back. And from what I gather that is their stance too and why they are trying to improve LoS tech rather than revert the "change" that should've been the release state to begin with.

We should be glad they are actually finally making strides to improve LoS and trust me LoS is far better now than it was before the patches. so you all can stop complaining and just imagine trategy released with LoS to begin with.

 

Yes and no.
Yes, such a big change should've been done BEFORE release.
No, because LoS on Tragedy is still a bad design choice.
However, at least people wouldn't have been scammed for investing into Dante if the change was done pre release, which is by far the most important problem with this change. A new Warframe being "balanced" into irrelevancy? Wouldn't be the first time. It's the betrayal of player's trust and investment that is the big deal. Now some players will wait weeks or even months before buying a newly released frame, or just not bother buying it at all and choosing to farm it even when they could buy it.

[Beryliberries]

Thank you for the update and Tennogen Item fixes. However, Sevagoth's Ezriel helmet still appears as the Glaukus helmet on his tombstone. Korrudo is still texture-less, and the Naimore armor and the Gillychap shoulder piece are still bugged under GI lighting. And the Forst Heirloom Signa is missing an energy channel on one of the crown point's VFX.

 

Edited April 27 by Beryliberries

[RogueSyndiva]

23 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Luckly WF isn't a competitive game, everybody wins the same loot regardless of who made the kill, and the kill number doesn't affect anything in-game (except the player ego). So this isn't a problem at all :) Can you imagine what would happen when you kill more than others using Saryn otherwise? :P

It would be very funni to witness ngl, "Omg, how dare you kill more enemies than I do!"

Did it numerous times using Saryn, a few of those times someone got butthurt and decided to leave squad abruptly mid-mission, a bit sad 'cause of the lost loots but also funni at the same time.

Also, some players just have very fragile ego and also being competitive at the same time. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[RyllusPurple]

On 2024-04-25 at 1:20 PM, DstroyR said:

So, it is maybe answer, why Omnia missions extremely unnpopular in public matchmaking. Hope, you`ll finaly fix this, because it nearly nonsense in its current state=\
P.S. Please, do some also with Entrati Thalmin Coffers. No sounds, no scannable remnants when destroyed. What a problem to rework them and make them similar as other (Grineer, Corpus, Orokin, or even as Zariman`s molted cascs) rare and legendary containers?

I think omnia fissures are unpopular because of how disproportionate the rewards and how hard they are to access. Flood and Cascade require angels of the zariman, (so finishing the entire game). Excavation is faster than all of them and available from the start of the game. Cascade is more profitable, and requires no parkour skill. Everyone who finishes angels quest will then be farming the bounties for voidplumes. Both new players and old players are de-incentivized from omnia fissures. I imagine experienced players will be avoiding conjuction survival because it's too slow when excav is much faster.   

Edited April 27 by RyllusPurple
additon

[DomoPANDAS]

Damn, literally started building Xaku and was looking forward to trying Xata's Whisper/Incarnon interaction just to see them "fix" something that's been in the game for years.

If it was a "bug" how the heck did it take 2 years to fix? 

[RafMatador22]

On 2024-04-26 at 1:02 AM, Kerlism said:

Well, not everyone wants to play with other people just so they can compete EDA. Keep in mind, if you want the max rewards from your search pulses each week you will be doing this mission, and all the solo players just have to suck it up if they get an awful rotation. Those players atm have to resort to the extremely engaging and tons of fun “go get carried lol” strategy that feels more like a chore than anything else. Key takeaway though, just because it isn’t designed for solo doesn’t mean it should be nearly impossible solo (especially when rewards are at stake).

I think you guys get really worked up about "carrying" or being "carried", it's a coop game for God's sake, everyone there is carrying themselves together, what's so humiliating about that? I honestly don't understand this problem in a game mode that requires just a little more cooperation than the rest of the game where you can already do everything alone.

[DstroyR]

13 часов назад, RyllusPurple сказал:

I think omnia fissures are unpopular because of how disproportionate the rewards and how hard they are to access. Flood and Cascade require angels of the zariman, (so finishing the entire game). Excavation is faster than all of them and available from the start of the game. Cascade is more profitable, and requires no parkour skill. Everyone who finishes angels quest will then be farming the bounties for voidplumes. Both new players and old players are de-incentivized from omnia fissures. I imagine experienced players will be avoiding conjuction survival because it's too slow when excav is much faster.   

Yeah, it is also reasonable notes about current Omnia`s unpopularity. As for me (in addition to noted issue with rewarding system) main proplem with Omnia it is it: