Helminth System For Warframe Passives

[-ShadowRadiance-]

As others have pointed out. Some frames passives would be utterly broken in the helminth system.

 

However. As i interpreted OP. Hes asking for NEW passives to be made which we can infuse. Which would be universally accessible through helminth only and not native to a frame.

 

Which im all for. +1

[Pakaku]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Passives SHOULD define frame. It should be something you can rely on (e.g. Wisp & jumping invisibility) and be good&useful in all cases (e.g. Caliban's passive is horrible, it's not great on its own AND it's removed with Adaptation).

They definitely help in defining the warframe; I couldn't imagine Zephyr without her passive. But in terms of what the ability does, there's still a power level to it, and something like Wukong's passive is way too powerful

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Passive =/= ability. You shouldn't make frame more passive (aka afk). Passive should be changed for passive.

"Passive" in this case doesn't mean AFK, it means it's a function of the warframe that activates on its own, passively, like Zephyr's reduced gravity. You don't activate that manually with abilities

And that's what I mean, you could replace a passive with another passive. But if you do that, then I think a fair restriction is to keep the same Helminth restriction of one replacement at a time. So if you replace the passive, you can't replace any of your 1,2,3,4 abilities. If you replace one of those, you can't replace your passive (your "#0 ability", we could say)

[ominumi]

Hmm... I wonder how Voruna would work? Maybe even Lavos. Above all Hildryn.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

7 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Hmm... I wonder how Voruna would work? Maybe even Lavos. Above all Hildryn.

Id say some frames would not be able to use that part of the system.

Similarly how nidus cannot infuse, shield stuff/shards. It would be grayed out to them.

[quxier]

25 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Passives SHOULD define frame. It should be something you can rely on (e.g. Wisp & jumping invisibility) and be good&useful in all cases (e.g. Caliban's passive is horrible, it's not great on its own AND it's removed with Adaptation).

They definitely help in defining the warframe; I couldn't imagine Zephyr without her passive. But in terms of what the ability does, there's still a power level to it, and something like Wukong's passive is way too powerful

Not every passive define frame.

And Wukong requires death and it lasts for up to 60 seconds. Not very powerful.

27 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Passive =/= ability. You shouldn't make frame more passive (aka afk). Passive should be changed for passive.

"Passive" in this case doesn't mean AFK, it means it's a function of the warframe that activates on its own, passively, like Zephyr's reduced gravity. You don't activate that manually with abilities

And that's what I mean, you could replace a passive with another passive. But if you do that, then I think a fair restriction is to keep the same Helminth restriction of one replacement at a time. So if you replace the passive, you can't replace any of your 1,2,3,4 abilities. If you replace one of those, you can't replace your passive (your "#0 ability", we could say)

Oh, you meant that. I guess that's reasonable. I would still like to change passive & 1 ability.

16 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Hmm... I wonder how Voruna would work? Maybe even Lavos. Above all Hildryn.

Voruna would pick 1 passive.

Lavos would give you status immunity (no elemental infussing).

Hildryn would probably just give more shield gating + status immunity on overshields.

 

You could go with cooldowns with Lavos or shield-as-energy with Hildryn but that would require much more balancing. Some abilities would be useless and some very good.

12 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Similarly how nidus cannot infuse, shield stuff/shards. It would be grayed out to them.

Or, troll mode, you could infuse e.g. "more shield gate + status immunity on overshield" of Hildryn into Nidus/Inaros... but it would be completely useless

[S074]

Entirely new infusable passives?
Interesting idea, as pretty much anything beats "you can stick on the wall for 60 seconds"

Having other warframe passives as helminth though?
I would say almost everyone would switch for Garuda's easy +100% damage, Limbo's can't touch this or Wisp's free invisibility

[stormy505]

Like, maybe new passives to choose from in the helminth system and if choosing one meant you can't have a helminth ability on your other abilities I'd be fine with it. I'm highly against going full modular warframes cause it feels like a bandaid fix over just changing the useless abilities.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, S074 said:

Having other warframe passives as helminth though?
I would say almost everyone would switch for Garuda's easy +100% damage, Limbo's can't touch this or Wisp's free invisibility

That just tells you some passives are much better or work at all.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

4 minutes ago, quxier said:

That just tells you some passives are much better or work at all.

It would be another case of an arcon shard in a way, like the person mentioned garuda free 100% damage you no longer need 5 tau forged crimsons, or you could carry on with the 5 and bump even further pushing the meta even higher, the helminth passive idea is good in theory but could potentially have some insane balancing issues, you said it could show some passive aren’t the best i totally agree, i don’t see too much room for mags passive for example.

Edited May 14 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Jarriaga]

6 hours ago, Reeperr13 said:

i think it would really be useful to have a Helminth segment to change warframe passives. Some of the older frames' passive is a bit dated..Frost ,Chroma  and so on

if DE would give us some passives to override the current one. like we can do with abilities. I think a lot of frames might get a new Breath of air.

 

Watch everyone use Garuda's passive because there is zero downside to increasing all of your damage.

[pwnSacrifice]

Older passives could use a balance pass. That I can agree with. However many frames have their kit built around their passive. Many passives just don't make sense on other frames. And I'm sure there are some passives that would break the game on other frames

I feel, in a day and age where any ability can be helminthed over, Passives are where the core of flavor and identity reside. I'd rather not have a passive swap system.

[quxier]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

It would be another case of an arcon shard in a way, like the person mentioned garuda free 100% damage you no longer need 5 tau forged crimsons,

75% more strength is not equal +100% damage in all cases. E.g. 200% strength may fully armor strip. That's MUCH MORE increase than 100%.

22 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

or you could carry on with the 5 and bump even further pushing the meta even higher, the helminth passive idea is good in theory but could potentially have some insane balancing issues

Sadly such would be nerfed so they wouldn't be very usable. Garuda would give you 50%.

I cannot imagine how much crit chance I would get from 0.5% crit chance for 40 shield from Styanax passive. Like.. 30% base crit chance. Styanax would add 925/40/2=3,46875%. NO, JUST NO... that's too much... laughing.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

20 minutes ago, quxier said:

75% more strength is not equal +100% damage in all cases. E.g. 200% strength may fully armor strip. That's MUCH MORE increase than 100%.

Sadly such would be nerfed so they wouldn't be very usable. Garuda would give you 50%.

I cannot imagine how much crit chance I would get from 0.5% crit chance for 40 shield from Styanax passive. Like.. 30% base crit chance. Styanax would add 925/40/2=3,46875%. NO, JUST NO... that's too much... laughing.

Ye very good point, on one hand feed us on the other starve us lol.

Just now, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

75% more strength is not equal +100% damage in all cases. E.g. 200% strength may fully armor strip. That's MUCH MORE increase than 100%.

Ye i’m aware it was more of just a brief statement i get you.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb pwnSacrifice:

Older passives could use a balance pass. That I can agree with. However many frames have their kit built around their passive. Many passives just don't make sense on other frames. And I'm sure there are some passives that would break the game on other frames

I feel, in a day and age where any ability can be helminthed over, Passives are where the core of flavor and identity reside. I'd rather not have a passive swap system.

Exactly. I'm just realistic and more than sure that something like that will never happen. Because they have been saying openly for many years that only new content counts because new content=life.

Therefore the only hope is: more options and creative builds from the players.