Can we have a non-pregnant Jade skin?

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

22 minutes ago, Luigispikachu said:

man, a toggle would be real nice. a best of both worlds.

 

you then can choose to see, or choose to not see. would be wonderful

Hmmm, a toggle not a bad idea at all.

[(XBOX)Omega399]

2 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

I mean... I'm we were told to play as pregnant Spartans, I'd be asking for a toggle on thier forums instead

Replace Pregnant with Fractures or Legacy, and thats basically exactly what happened.

[WanderingJoe]

I was part of the halo infinite community untill I hard they had moved on for development to the next game. That and the cosmetics kept getting more expensive... anyways, I meant what I said. I meant playing as pregnant spartans, not the fractures and legacy cosmetics. I don't think you could equate the reactions if both had happened to the halo community.

[project_eulogy]

On 2024-06-25 at 4:32 PM, Agall said:

I keep up to date on mainstream politics and have no idea what you're referring to.

If pregnancy is triggering, then they should complain to their mother, who brought them into this world, not Warframe's devs.

This is not the place to talk about real world politics anyway. But i'm referring to several stories in the news in my area where a pregnant woman was murdered(by a non citizen), which is happening all over my country, and it just happens to coincide with the release of this frame. Which is morbidly ironic for me, but I can understand some people not wanting to see this.

This has nothing to do with being offended at pregnancy. I have no idea why your brain went down that path. The fact that there's a dead mother and a dead baby is what the issue is my guy lol good lord.

[Zalgo]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Omega399 said:

Its not really fair to be too upset at the marketing, since there wasn't really anything misleading about it other than the Frame being a 50$ (cad) blind bag. 

All of the marketing was around her being an angel themed warframe with nothing to suggest she would be pregnant how can that not be considered misleading?

[Agall]

1 hour ago, project_eulogy said:

This is not the place to talk about real world politics anyway. But i'm referring to several stories in the news in my area where a pregnant woman was murdered(by a non citizen), which is happening all over my country, and it just happens to coincide with the release of this frame. Which is morbidly ironic for me, but I can understand some people not wanting to see this.

This has nothing to do with being offended at pregnancy. I have no idea why your brain went down that path. The fact that there's a dead mother and a dead baby is what the issue is my guy lol good lord.

People are murdered all the time, the reality of the world. That has nothing to do with Warframe and entirely with your sensibilities. 

[WanderingJoe]

Maybe so, but its instinctive to preserve what is one of the most vulnerable times in the continuation of our species. No amount of reasoning will turn the lizard brain off if it decided to turn itself on.

[(XBOX)Omega399]

3 hours ago, Zalgo said:

All of the marketing was around her being an angel themed warframe with nothing to suggest she would be pregnant how can that not be considered misleading?

All of the marketing was about the contrasting themes between her and Stalker, with a heavy emphasis on their relationship; Stalker's Demonic vs Jade’s Angelic, Stalker's Dark vs Jade’s Light, Stalker's Death vs Jade’s Life. it wasn't just the angelic aesthetic they were promoting, that was honestly a fairly minor thing compared to how heavily they were promoting how the two were related.

It was unexpected that they took the contrasting theme of Life to the extent they did by also making that contrast a deeper part of Jade's own design (a bringer of death who bears life, or at least shares the maternal figure associated with it), but it wasn't really misleading so much as it might have been mishandled. The main "misleading" issue people seem to be having is caused by DE treating it like The Sacrifice, and trying to employ a Spoiler Embargo for the duration of her associated event leading into Tennocon, while Jade herself isnt being treated like Umbra for that embargo period.

[Vaz2017]

On 2024-06-26 at 5:48 PM, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Lol this makes no sense as even if you toggled it off for yourself, other players may not have it toggled off and prefer it, so what would be the point? You'd still be "traumatized."

So stupid.

I don't know about others, but what I'm asking for is a global toggle in the game settings. We already have one for Peculiar mods, so there's precedent and at least part of the functionality already exists. There is no excuse for arguing against an OPTION except for dev time spent implementing it, and I doubt it'd be terribly much.

A toggle is not censorship.

Edited June 28 by Vaz2017

[WanderingJoe]

 

1 hour ago, Vaz2017 said:

what I'm asking for is a global toggle

I see the reasoning but that kind of toggle would likely be tied to... I think it's called the creator mode? The mode that turns off all major spoiler relevent models that might show up. I understand the 2ant bit In afraid it might be asking for too much, since if they did make it, they'd likely have to create the auxiliary toggle, make it available to all players not on spoilers off mode (I think there would be complaints from people who wanted the toggle but didn't want to have to turn off the story for it) and then they'd have to go in and put it onto the spoiler mode as well. The current way the conversation is going, I think people have made a good case on getting an auxiliary, but I don't want to come off as having the "you give an inch and we'll take a mile" kind of thought process

Edited June 28 by WanderingJoe

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2024-06-26 at 8:11 PM, SirKeksalot said:

1. It's way less conspicuous on another person's frame. That's not quite the same as having it on your own.

2. This feature is coming from the people it affects. I'm only backing that request because I believe other players have a right to feel comfortable in the game they love, and I can only assume it's enough for them because it's literally what they're asking for. Is it enough for them? Idk, go ask them, not me, because I personally don't know what it's like to be offended by Jade.

3. An imperfect solution that mitigates the problem is better than none at all. Unless you have a better idea and you really care about solving problems, this kinda talk does no good.

If you let your feelings dictate how a video game studio runs things, you seriously need to check your priorities. I don't think DE is going to make changes just because a SMALL group of way too loud individuals want to launch their personal trauma onto a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER.

4 hours ago, Vaz2017 said:

I don't know about others, but what I'm asking for is a global toggle in the game settings. We already have one for Peculiar mods, so there's precedent and at least part of the functionality already exists. There is no excuse for arguing against an OPTION except for dev time spent implementing it, and I doubt it'd be terribly much.

A toggle is not censorship.

Never said it was censorship, where are you even getting this from?

I stated it would be pointless to toggle, especially now, its been quite a few days since her initial release and I'm sure players have spoiled it for themselves in game or just by watching youtube.

[Chewarette]

16 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

Just caught up on this. I think some people are missing the point. I think that it is up to us to manage our trauma but the marketing was clearly misleading. If they wanted a pregant warframe that’s fine, they should have marketed her as such.

I would have been pissed if they had marketed a freaking spoiler tbh, do you realize how weird is that request ?

"You can now purchase Jade, the 57th Warframe, which is a Pregnant Warframe who was Stalker's wife back in the days before they were changed to Warframe due to their violation of the Legems ! Learn how you, the Tenno, will help deliver the baby for Stalker to take care of after the Sisters of Parvos ordered a ceasefire to save that baby !" 

Y'know, as everything in this game can trigger specific people, you'd have to spoil the entire game & quest before each expac.

On this aspect, the fault's more on you buying stuff without even trying to do the 20min quest beforehand. As if I was buying a game I know nothing about then complain to the devs the themes are not what I like. Please change the entire game to fit me plz plz

[SirKeksalot]

38 minutes ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

If you let your feelings dictate how a video game studio runs things, you seriously need to check your priorities.

Feelings are the basis for all feedback on a game. We play these for fun, or at least we should. Fostering positive emotions is the whole damn point of a game like this. I gave my feedback because I got good feelings from Jade, and they're really strong feelings indeed. Knowing that this game has the capacity to make me feel good in this way, and that I'm grateful for having this feeling present in the game somehow, I don't have to think too hard to understand how it can make someone feel bad to the same degree that Jade personally helped me, and that perhaps it's not unreasonable to suggest they have as much of a right to comfort as I do.

43 minutes ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

I don't think DE is going to make changes just because a SMALL group of way too loud individuals want to launch their personal trauma onto a VIDEO GAME CHARACTER.

Nobody chooses to attach trauma to stuff. I have my own crap, and just this morning, someone I know on Discord sent me a link to a song that she thought might help me. It...didn't. It just reminded me of my issues and made me feel worse. I got over it, it wasn't THAT big, but it still struck a nerve none of us expected it to hit.

30 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

I would have been pissed if they had marketed a freaking spoiler tbh, do you realize how weird is that request ?

"You can now purchase Jade, the 57th Warframe, which is a Pregnant Warframe who was Stalker's wife back in the days before they were changed to Warframe due to their violation of the Legems ! Learn how you, the Tenno, will help deliver the baby for Stalker to take care of after the Sisters of Parvos ordered a ceasefire to save that baby !" 

They didn't have to give all that away. "The Warframe is pregnant" is all they would need to say to disclose that the Warframe is pregnant. (Good lord, those words still don't make sense together.) That doesn't tell us anything about why or how, or what the story will really be about. They didn't even need to say it, just show her belly instead of concealing it and let the free marketing roll in from the playerbase and beyond scratching their heads in disbelief, which I think we're all doing anyway. Haven't played the quest, but it sounds like it didn't really need to be a big secret in order to drive the story home, it was just shock value. (And I can think of no world in which that's not shocking, no matter how that information is disseminated.) Again, not in a place to judge, maybe it really was necessary to pull that, maybe not, I could say for sure if not for the stupid Necramech grind.

36 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Y'know, as everything in this game can trigger specific people, you'd have to spoil the entire game & quest before each expac.

You keep saying this, but we're talking about a very unusual instance of something that never happens in action games that people are making a fuss about now when, in WF's history, I don't think they really have in this way? Like, when has anything like this happened to the game before, and what came of it? You can't just make up a problem, not prove it's real, and then base your argument around that. Politicians in my country do that all the time with the intention of justifying taking my rights away.

39 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

On this aspect, the fault's more on you buying stuff without even trying to do the 20min quest beforehand. As if I was buying a game I know nothing about then complain to the devs the themes are not what I like. Please change the entire game to fit me plz plz

DE intentionally concealed Jade's pregnancy to preserve the plot twist. There was NO way to predict that the Warframe was going to be pregnant unless you were that one guy who, with Apollo's gift of prophecy, somehow knew to ask about this months ago on a dev stream. This has never happened before, that's why it's being talked about. How were OP and his fiancee supposed to know there was even a possibility that a goddamn Warframe needed a content warning? They wanted to get her before the quest, and I don't see how that's wrong when no Warframe before this has had such a big and dramatic spoiler for their story baked into their very design, to the point where the devs felt the need to hide it. Maybe I'm wrong, I was out for 6 years, but I was under the impression that this was 6 years of no greater drama than whether the new frames were fun or viable, or whatever other standard fare game devs get up to.

[Chewarette]

7 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

They didn't have to give all that away. "The Warframe is pregnant" is all they would need to say to disclose that the Warframe is pregnant. (Good lord, those words still don't make sense together.) That doesn't tell us anything about why or how, or what the story will really be about. They didn't even need to say it, just show her belly instead of concealing it and let the free marketing roll in from the playerbase and beyond scratching their heads in disbelief, which I think we're all doing anyway. Haven't played the quest, but it sounds like it didn't really need to be a big secret in order to drive the story home, it was just shock value. (And I can think of no world in which that's not shocking, no matter how that information is disseminated.) Again, not in a place to judge, maybe it really was necessary to pull that, maybe not, I could say for sure if not for the stupid Necramech grind.

You keep saying this, but we're talking about a very unusual instance of something that never happens in action games that people are making a fuss about now when, in WF's history, I don't think they really have in this way? Like, when has anything like this happened to the game before, and what came of it? You can't just make up a problem, not prove it's real, and then base your argument around that. Politicians in my country do that all the time with the intention of justifying taking my rights away.

Whatever you say, "Warframe is pregnant" is a spoiler for all the quest if you can bind 2+2 together. The warning at the beginning already sold off everything.

And then, you mention the "unusual instance", "nooo we're only talking about pregnancy, nothing else !!", but you know deep inside that it's a pandora box. Propose a Jade non-pregnant skin, then you have to propose a slim Grendel skin, because fatphobia exists and it'll be the next trendy topic. Or maybe a boobless warframe because some women underwent mastectomy and is triggered by boobies. And it goes on indefinitely, it can't be good for the game.

Do you even realize that getting a non-pregnant Jade skin would simply mean she has aborted ? Or had a miscarriage ? Isn't that factually even worse, specifically for the OP ?!?!?!? "God thanks this Pregnant Warframe is no longer Pregnant ! ... Wait, does it mean that..."

You can turn around the problem however you want : There will always be people triggered by something. You can't design the game around every single phobia/trauma that some people might have. It's not realistic. And in the case of Jade, it's an outright murder of the entire Warframe's design & story. Jade was literally created while being pregnant, a non-pregnant Jade doesn't exist. Deal with it. Play something else if that triggers you too much, she's not even that special to begin with gameplay-wise

Edited June 28 by Chewarette

[DudeleeG2]

Sometimes things are just obvious. It’s just obvious that her being pregnant should not have been hidden from us.
 

Spoilers is no real argument because you see Jade players in every game atm. Also, you can’t say that my fiance’s feelings don’t matter but that spoilers do - that’s just feelings too. You’re saying that people would be hurt if the story was “spoiled” for them and that that matters, but my fiance feeling hurt doesn’t matter. Either they both matter, or they don’t matter. Misleading people with marketing actually is a big deal, unlike story spoilers, because people are spending real money.
 

And to whoever said that we should have played the quest before buying the warframe - no-one has to do anything in any particular order.
We were looking forward to Jade, my fiance likes to play as women in games, and neither of us find the warframe story very compelling. We both skip all the cutscenes we can. She was waiting for Jade for months and excited for her, based on the marketing, and when she came out she bought her with platinum. What’s wrong with that?

[WanderingJoe]

29 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

They didn't have to give all that away. "The Warframe is pregnant" is all they would need to say to disclose that the Warframe is pregnant.

Not gonna lie... I think there would have been backlash with just that. To the point it would have caused problems with the update. It makes perfect sense why but... as it was mentioned before, Steve tried asking if a toggle was needed. unfortunately secrecy demanded that the question go unanswered. even now Im not sure if I could blame DE if they just kept their head down. I'd disagree but id understand the business decision as to why they'd do so.

[_Anise_]

On 2024-06-25 at 1:26 PM, Stormandreas said:

Jade is lost, she's gone, yet, she's also here. How is that possible? Because Eternalism allows past, present and future versions of the same thing

this made me realize something,  there isn't a past version of the jade warframe that wasn't pregnant, so also from a lore standpoint it does not make sense giving her a flat form? though I will acknowledge I don't really know how lore friendly skin are.

[quxier]

22 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

On 2024-06-25 at 2:26 PM, Stormandreas said:

Jade is lost, she's gone, yet, she's also here. How is that possible? Because Eternalism allows past, present and future versions of the same thing

this made me realize something,  there isn't a past version of the jade warframe that wasn't pregnant, so also from a lore standpoint it does not make sense giving her a flat form? though I will acknowledge I don't really know how lore friendly skin are.

I may confused Eternalism with other theory but I think it's much more "versatile":

- Jade may not get pregnant - still Stalkee & Jade gets together

- Stalker gets pregnant (he is female, Jade is male)

- Frame can reproduce, Stalker recently (well in our time) got Jade pregnant but something gets wrong.

- Jade got pregnant... with her own child.

So on and so forth. So far we just have something close to our (Tenno's) reality. However I wouldn't say above are impossible. Improbable but not impossible.

[_Anise_]

23 minutes ago, quxier said:

Stalker gets pregnant (he is female, Jade is male)

this sounds like an argument for having warframe genders? do you suggest maybe (disgruntled) players would be happy with a "male jade" instead? but I get what you're saying you can handwave anything into existance with "space magic" (I mean the void)

Edited June 28 by _Anise_

[_Anise_]

10 hours ago, DudeleeG2 said:

Also, you can’t say that my fiance’s feelings don’t matter

While I understand and respect everyone's feelings, I can't help but wonder why, if she is truly passionate about this subject as you mentioned, she isn't here expressing her thoughts herself. Additionally, I'm curious about what aspect of pregnancy she finds traumatizing. Wouldn't the desire to have the 'baby' removed from the skin be the truly traumatic part that would resonate with people?

Moreover, has she explored adjusting her playstyle to better suit her preferences? For example, she could refrain from playing as Jade, avoid games featuring Jade, or choose to play solo to address her concerns. Perhaps she could consider opening a support ticket to explain her situation and inquire about a refund.

Edited June 28 by _Anise_

[quxier]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Stalker gets pregnant (he is female, Jade is male)

this sounds like an argument for having warframe genders?

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

I get what you're saying you can handwave anything into existance with "space magic" (I mean the void)

Just lore wise. Gameplay or mechanically (engine/system/machine (current) limitations) is another thing. I wouldn't mind simple skins (not gender changing). There were some suggestion about black Excal default skin for teammates. That would be nice for some machines in Relays. But otherwise I don't feel like it's ok. I think they don't want make 'gender skins' as it's more problematic. Not sure about current stance on this topic. They probably would do another frame because that brings more money.

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

do you suggest maybe (disgruntled) players would be happy with a "male jade" instead?

Nah, I don't know. However seeing as simple pregnacy affect people I wouldn't be surprised. People are just weird. They are expecting so much for 18+ title.

 

 

[WanderingJoe]

One, no need to speak so calously. We can all speak civil to one another without devolving into demanding that those who don't feel comfortable speaking about thier discomfort show themselves. It's very possible that his fiance doesn't want to talk about this at all and that this guy is on here without her knowledge in order to express what he's discussed with her in private.

Two, Yeah, I think removing the pregnancy would help the people who feel uncomfortable about this, as that's the point why many of us are here. We also don't need to prove anything to you about why we want a change since we're mostly here just to show our presence in the hope DE notices us. So while those of us on this thread may engage in discourse as a way to display our talking points, there's no reason why we should have to engage with anyone who isn't going to have the discussion in good faith. The talking points of "just don't play her or with anyone else" have been long since made for you. Everyone here is a tenno. We're here because we enjoy the game and want to enjoy it as much as possible. The "jade feedback" section of the forums is exactly the place for us to give her opinion on her so we are going to do so. This could devolve into letter like essays about her if things really need to be that sterile in order to have a discussion without attacking how anyone's participation in this discourse.

To those of you who don't want to join the long form conversation on this thread, feel free to just drop a review if that's all you wanted to do to participate. My personal masochistic desire to speak to people having a bad faith argument is an example you don't have to follow if you don't want to.

Edited June 28 by WanderingJoe

[WanderingJoe]

I dont think expanding the request to have the baby bump be an auxiliary attachment into every warframe should have a gender switch is a reasonable one. It also works against some of the people arguing for why the auxiliary toggle should be ignored because it would be something that would require more manpower on DE's part. I do think it would be interesting if your arguments interacted in another thread though. 

And for the special person who made the point that even having this discussion on the forums was detrimental to DE because DE would have to place someone to look over the discussions... that's the point of forums in the first place. Rebecca litterally did that as her previous position. It's what our courent community manager has as a job.

If you're reading this, Hi Megan! Hope you're day is going well!

Edited June 28 by WanderingJoe

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2024-06-25 at 10:58 PM, Luigispikachu said:

honestly we should just get louder for every troll that tries to gaslight us into shutting up

Surprised gaslighting is common here

Isn't that against the rules?

[_Anise_]

35 minutes ago, WanderingJoe said:

I dont think expanding the request to have the baby bump be an auxiliary attachment into every warframe should have a gender switch is a reasonable one

Based on my observations, individuals seeking a "belly toggle" (I will referee to as "model swap" for clarity, as the core part of a mesh cannot be simply switched off like a light or a decorative element) appear to seek a controlled debate where their logic can easily prevail. They gravitate towards arguments that fit neatly within predetermined boundaries and avoid examples like hidryn's bulkiness. When discussions veer towards examples like that and cite artistic integrity, it tends to conflict with their established views on the ideal approach usually leading them to dismiss the entire argument.

To date, I have not come across a compelling argument that doesn't essentially reduce to straightforward statements such as "I dislike her appearance" or "I don't feel comfortable playing her." The reality is that individuals are not obligated to play as her; it's as simple as that.

Edited June 28 by _Anise_