Let's talk line of sight being completely fubar since the previous update.

[Traumtulpe]

If you don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at this:

 

And no, I'm not running Narrow Minded. That ability supposedly has a 35m explosion radius:

Whatever DE is cooking with their LoS changes, IT DOESN'T WORK.

[SneakyErvin]

You arent by chance having her tap/hold functions inverted? Since if you do, when you tap to unload the explosion you are instead canceling anchor and all effects.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

You arent by chance having her tap/hold functions inverted? Since if you do, when you tap to unload the explosion you are instead canceling anchor and all effects.

You can clearly see her do the explosion. Also, you can actually see *1* enemy getting hit from the first of the three explosions, for 12m damage. The rightmost one.

Edited June 25 by Traumtulpe

[Stormandreas]

Have you tried Jumping? Try Jumping.

If that works, it's because the abilitys explosion is being drawn from the feet. I believe Temporal Anchor also hasn't been touched with any of the better LoS changes yet anyway

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

If that works, it's because the abilitys explosion is being drawn from the feet.

Even if the line of sight was extending from her feet (why would it do that? You don't see with your feet, there might be tiny obstacles on the floor, and the player dosn't see the "line of sight of her feet" either), it would still hit the enemies. Unless the only relevant part of the enemy is *also their feet* at which point I just have to ask what the hell DE is doing, calculating line of sight checks from feet to feet.

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Even if the line of sight was extending from her feet (why would it do that? You don't see with your feet, there might be tiny obstacles on the floor, and the player dosn't see the "line of sight of her feet" either), it would still hit the enemies. Unless the only relevant part of the enemy is *also their feet* at which point I just have to ask what the hell DE is doing, calculating line of sight checks from feet to feet.

Because that is how some of the old LoS checks function? Protea has yet to be touched by the improved LoS checks.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Traumtulpe:

 You don't see with your feet, 

Sir speak for yourself. I do see with my feet 

[Traumtulpe]

11 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

Sir speak for yourself. I do see with my feet 

If you were to "see with the soles of your feet", as warframes apparently do, then you just wouldn't see anything at all, as evidenced by my short video clip.

[Stormandreas]

44 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Even if the line of sight was extending from her feet (why would it do that? You don't see with your feet, there might be tiny obstacles on the floor, and the player dosn't see the "line of sight of her feet" either), it would still hit the enemies. Unless the only relevant part of the enemy is *also their feet* at which point I just have to ask what the hell DE is doing, calculating line of sight checks from feet to feet.

Dantes Tragedy was coming from the base of the feet as well until they fixed it.

While it seems like a no brainer to have LoS come from the Torso or Head, very often, the 0, 0, 0 co-ordinates on a model, are at the feet/floor, in the center line of the model. This could be what's going on.

The LoS system was changed so the LoS checks their feet, torso and head now, not just their feet. It's all in their patchnotes and dev workshop as to the issues the LoS system used to have, to how they are changing it to. Granted, it's not a simple fix though, so it might still take a little time to sort all of it.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Stormandreas said:

Granted, it's not a simple fix though, so it might still take a little time to sort all of it.

Well then maybe LoS abilities will start actually doing something, anything at all, at some point in the future. For the time being I'll stick to non-LoS weapons and abilities.

[Stormandreas]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Well then maybe LoS abilities will start actually doing something, anything at all, at some point in the future. For the time being I'll stick to non-LoS weapons and abilities.

Most LoS abilities work fine. Dante is still nuking, Proteas turrets work fine, Fire Blast honestly I felt no issue with but is now better, Rotorswell I never really noticed an issue with either but apparently needed updating.

LoS is not the killer of abilities, it just hasn't been looked at for 10/11 years so the system hasn't kept up with the game anymore.

[Traumtulpe]

2 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

LoS is not the killer of abilities

Well with Protea it's literally not working half of the time (on average), and that just completely disqualifies her for me.

[Numerounius]

There is a hard range cap on some abilities are you sure you aren't hitting that?

[ominumi]

Have you tried standing on the same ground level as the enemy for testing? Seems to be a height check. Some abilities become wonky even at a foot off the ground.

[Traumtulpe]

59 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Have you tried standing on the same ground level as the enemy for testing? Seems to be a height check. Some abilities become wonky even at a foot off the ground.

Yes, if standing on the same elevation it mostly works, except in the Sanctum Simulacrum where the surface isn't perfectly even and the tiny bumps apparently also block line of sight.

[Traumtulpe]

It seems to me like there's a 5m range in which it works regardless of line of sight, and other than that LoS is just for no discernable reason completely borked some of the time.

Have some pictures where I stood pretty much inside of the crowd, but nothing outside of 5m range got hit:

Edited June 25 by Traumtulpe

[ominumi]

16 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Yes, if standing on the same elevation it mostly works, except in the Sanctum Simulacrum where the surface isn't perfectly even and the tiny bumps apparently also block line of sight.

Try heavy slam to "Lift" enemies then use Anchor at different elevation.

Edited June 25 by ominumi

[Traumtulpe]

14 minutes ago, ominumi said:

Try heavy slam to "Lift" enemies then use Anchor at different elevation.

I tried that in the exact same situation and position I showed in the video, it made no difference. Didn't hit anything.

[ominumi]

53 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I tried that in the exact same situation and position I showed in the video, it made no difference. Didn't hit anything.

So it seems Temporal Anchor needs to travel surfaces to hit targets. 

[Traumtulpe]

4 minutes ago, ominumi said:

So it seems Temporal Anchor needs to travel surfaces to hit targets. 

No, that isn't it. When standing *there* it would pull those three enemies down onto a lower elevation (the rest are out of range), and then never pull them again no matter how many times I cast Temporal Anchor.

[Traumtulpe]

The best I can make sense of this is that you need to literally have a straight unobstructed line from the soles of your feet to the soles of the enemies. Like 100% pixel accurate perfectly straight. If there is as much as a 2mm ridge in the floor the ability does nothing, if you are standing on a platform you need to have your feet poke over the edge or it does nothing.

Edited June 25 by Traumtulpe

[trst]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The best I can make sense of this is that you need to literally have a straight unobstructed line from the soles of your feet to the soles of the enemies. Like 100% pixel accurate perfectly straight. If there is as much as a 2mm ridge in the floor the ability does nothing, if you are standing on a platform you need to have your feet poke over the edge or it does nothing.

Yeah that's how LoS systems work when they don't have workarounds for uneven geometry. Literally a single engine unit of collision, or anything else that LoS checks collide with, can block the check if it's directly in the path the line is trying to draw.

Chances are since Protea hasn't been specifically mentioned in the patch notes she was missed with getting the new LoS system for circular AOE abilities where it's supposed to have two checks. Just go post your testing in the appropriate feedback forums.

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

5 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Even if the line of sight was extending from her feet (why would it do that? You don't see with your feet, there might be tiny obstacles on the floor, and the player dosn't see the "line of sight of her feet" either), it would still hit the enemies. Unless the only relevant part of the enemy is *also their feet* at which point I just have to ask what the hell DE is doing, calculating line of sight checks from feet to feet.

Dantes Tragedy was coming from the base of the feet as well until they fixed it.

While it seems like a no brainer to have LoS come from the Torso or Head, very often, the 0, 0, 0 co-ordinates on a model, are at the feet/floor, in the center line of the model. This could be what's going on.

The LoS system was changed so the LoS checks their feet, torso and head now, not just their feet. It's all in their patchnotes and dev workshop as to the issues the LoS system used to have, to how they are changing it to. Granted, it's not a simple fix though, so it might still take a little time to sort all of it.

It seems easy now (Jade update):

Quote

Abilities that use LOS checks already have been updated to this improved technology! Additionally, with these improvements, we can now easily shift over any Warframe Ability that relies on LOS checks to be seamlessly migrated to this new, more accurate system, meaning we’re able to act faster on any outlying offenders that may arise. 

In addition, you have 5 meters of "no los check" (so thats why Protea's pulling 1 enemy, I guess):

Quote

New LoS check:
First if the enemy is within 5 meters we don't do LoS at all, we just assume they are visible. Then checks if the enemy is being rendered, which works for any enemies on screen, so if you see even their pinky toe, they are considered visible.

Might change in final version but you get the gist.

35 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The best I can make sense of this is that you need to literally have a straight unobstructed line from the soles of your feet to the soles of the enemies. Like 100% pixel accurate perfectly straight. If there is as much as a 2mm ridge in the floor the ability does nothing, if you are standing on a platform you need to have your feet poke over the edge or it does nothing.

It seems like that LOS check weren't fully implemented. Dante for example can use 334 on those enemies, even standing 1 step bellow.

On other hand Kullervo/1 (teleport) have different issue. It teleport from "above head". If you are bellow "stair" in that simulacrum you cannot teleport to any location. However there is no "feet issue".

btw. it should be in feedback not disusion board ;)

[(PSN)Unstar]

I'd recommend reporting this as a bug in the Bug Report forums; then DE can hopefully address it.