Jade eximus sucks because of the intention implementing them.

[Merkranire]

10 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

That was on rotation B of an interception on.. uh.. whichever one has the P7 axi relic. We were testing that vs a Lua disruption. We went another C, A, A, B rotation with that going on.

It's not really an issue at low level, and I don't do that on SP, but I hope that's not a sign of what's to come.

Er. You’d have to be a little more specific with levels; again, I’m thinking it might be that the game scaled up to the point that your build was being pushed back against due to your continuation into the mission (which mind you, I’m not one of those fools who think you’re doing something wrong if you start feeling some pushback), which meant more enemies were hanging around for longer.

If you were to worry about it being some kind of precedent, you’ll have to consider it from a holistic perspective; every build we can make starting from the modless baseline has a limit and many of them don’t even need to hit SP to reach it, so you’ll start encountering cases where the enemies push back in accordance with their design intention, but you’ll need to be aware of whether you’re trying to push higher than your build can comfortably go, or whether you’re overbuilt for the content, since both of those approaches can result in a skewed outcome

Personally, it sounds like they’re doing what they’re meant to do for the most part, but again I haven’t gone and fought them in different ways across different content

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

Er. You’d have to be a little more specific with levels; again, I’m thinking it might be that the game scaled up to the point that your build was being pushed back against due to your continuation into the mission (which mind you, I’m not one of those fools who think you’re doing something wrong if you start feeling some pushback), which meant more enemies were hanging around for longer.

If you were to worry about it being some kind of precedent, you’ll have to consider it from a holistic perspective; every build we can make starting from the modless baseline has a limit and many of them don’t even need to hit SP to reach it, so you’ll start encountering cases where the enemies push back in accordance with their design intention, but you’ll need to be aware of whether you’re trying to push higher than your build can comfortably go, or whether you’re overbuilt for the content, since both of those approaches can result in a skewed outcome

Personally, it sounds like they’re doing what they’re meant to do for the most part, but again I haven’t gone and fought them in different ways across different content

It's quite possible that is going on. If that's the balance then cool, but the thing I didn't like about it was the spam and being hit with things in an unavoidable way, especially when I'm just using my frame as intended.

With the atlas anecdote, the thing that struck me wasn't the effect the aoe's were having on me. It was just, "holy balls, this is a lot of stuff being thrown at me for this level of the game". That wasn't a one off. I've been specifically using frames I normally wouldn't to see if anything is taking my fancy since I took a wee break from the game. I've noticed that a fair bit on frames that aren't instant casts or very fast casters.

Edit: Specifically for the levels, for the anecdote itself, that was Berehynia - Sedna, starts at 30-40 and we did 2 full rotations.

Edit2: Also, the spam started on the first rotation B. This didn't feel like this was getting to the end of my build, considering I continued to play for another load of rotations. The reason we stopped and I switched frames was because of the annoying spam. Absolutely nothing to do with killing things and going through the waves. The same has been happening on the infested maps as well for ages now; Constantly being pulled about and making me choose between sacrificing my build or dealing with ultimately pointless attacks that are just annoying. Ultimately it has no affect on anything of import, but that might not always be the case.

Adapting to the situation and game is all part of the game. Some of my favourite frames have taken a lot of adjustment under this current iteration of the game, and that's perfectly fine with me. I'm no stranger to only having limited use of my abilities either. Mirage is one of my favourite frames, and her disco ball of death has always been dangerous to throw out. But is still annoying. Not because of the effects, but the spam actually takes away some of the fun of the game for me. It's jarring.

Which, coming full circle, is why it was crazy how much I am finding these frames having skills that are resulting in that much spam hitting me without much recourse other than don't use that skill. It just felt really annoying for no reason and I hope it's not a sign for the future. Just a concern, not an assertion that it is an issue as of right now.

Edited Tuesday at 04:44 AM by RootyTootyAimAnShooty

[Merkranire]

36 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

It's quite possible that is going on. If that's the balance then cool, but the thing I didn't like about it was the spam and being hit with things in an unavoidable way, especially when I'm just using my frame as intended.

With the atlas anecdote, the thing that struck me wasn't the effect the aoe's were having on me. It was just, "holy balls, this is a lot of stuff being thrown at me for this level of the game". That wasn't a one off. I've been specifically using frames I normally wouldn't to see if anything is taking my fancy since I took a wee break from the game. I've noticed that a fair bit on frames that aren't instant casts or very fast casters.

Edit: Specifically for the levels, for the anecdote itself, that was Berehynia - Sedna, starts at 30-40 and we did 2 full rotations.

Adapting to the situation and game is all part of the game. Some of my favourite frames have taken a lot of adjustment under this current iteration of the game, and that's perfectly fine with me. I'm no stranger to only having limited use of my abilities either. Mirage is one of my favourite frames, and her disco ball of death has always been dangerous to throw out. But is still annoying. Not because of the effects, but the spam actually takes away some of the fun of the game for me. It's jarring.

Which, coming full circle, is why it was crazy how much I am finding these frames having skills that are resulting in that much spam hitting me without much recourse other than don't use that skill. It just felt really annoying for no reason and I hope it's not a sign for the future. Just a concern, not an assertion that it is an issue as of right now.

Hm. Have you been watching your positioning? I’ve heard that the jade eximus have some kind of LoS check, which makes me think ducking behind a wall or something to cast dangerous abilities, trying to minimise exposure while maximising effect, would work against not only the new eximus, but also the old ones to prevent being blasted by firewaves or whatever

One of the reasons I like more-enclosed spaces is how there’s clutter and stuff to hide behind, and I remember I got absolutely shredded ages ago just by standard enemies when I went to cast Limbo’s cataclysm in the middle of the room while I was there, what with the long windup animation

Edited Tuesday at 04:48 AM by Merkranire

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

10 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Hm. Have you been watching your positioning? I’ve heard that the jade eximus have some kind of LoS check, which makes me think ducking behind a wall or something to cast dangerous abilities, trying to minimise exposure while maximising effect, would work against not only the new eximus, but also the old ones to prevent being blasted by firewaves or whatever

One of the reasons I like more-enclosed spaces is how there’s clutter and stuff to hide behind, and I remember I got absolutely shredded ages ago just by standard enemies when I went to cast Limbo’s cataclysm in the middle of the room while I was there, what with the long windup animation

Mate, I don't mean to be snippy. But why is it that me saying I was having no problems with any eximus and I was just surprised by Atlas getting nailed while doing a number 4 skills is translated into people's head that one of the following is what I am actually saying:

a) Don't know how to move out of AoE effects

b) Don't know how to look around before playing a long skill (even though I mentioned specifically I have a lot of history with that)

c) That after 8 years of just being a member of this forum, let alone playing the game, that I don't know about building my frames towards the content I'm doing.

d) Me using an anecdote to point to one frame having one annoying thing happen and going, "That was annoying, I hope that's not where we're going", is a comment on difficulty.

At no point did I struggle in the anecdote that I shared that made me go, "Woah, this is crazy". At no point did I get downed, knocked around, lose health or have to revive. At no point was I unable to clear an entire group of them with a single, maybe two, clicks of my mouse or button presses. I was clearing everything, popping my skill when I thought it was clear and still getting nailed because of a long cast time.

It's ridiculous that I am making a comment on the number of effects on screen being overwhelming that people are saying I need to learn to play the game. When the actual fact I could stand there and take in this crazy situation with zero worries about the damage is an indicator that I have the mods, weapons and experience to make a build that can do that.

Edit: Please understand, I know you're being helpful and it is very much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to try and solve the issue. I'm just frustrated that I made an innocuous comment about the amount of effects on screen getting to the upper limit of what I can enjoy, and this has got the "git gud" police out.

Edited Tuesday at 02:50 PM by RootyTootyAimAnShooty

[RyllusPurple]

On 2024-07-01 at 11:02 AM, Tsukinoki said:

Any proof to back this up?

I just did a few tests with this with Loki and Ivara and didn't have this issue at all.

If I was invisible I never got a jade light on me at all.
If I became visible a jade light could start targeting me, but if I became invisible the light would stop chasing me and just sit there in the air.

I was wrong.

[Merkranire]

10 hours ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Mate, I don't mean to be snippy. But why is it that me saying I was having no problems with any eximus and I was just surprised by Atlas getting nailed while doing a number 4 skills is translated into people's head that one of the following is what I am actually saying:

a) Don't know how to move out of AoE effects

b) Don't know how to look around before playing a long skill (even though I mentioned specifically I have a lot of history with that)

c) That after 8 years of just being a member of this forum, let alone playing the game, that I don't know about building my frames towards the content I'm doing.

d) Me using an anecdote to point to one frame having one annoying thing happen and going, "That was annoying, I hope that's not where we're going", is a comment on difficulty.

At no point did I struggle in the anecdote that I shared that made me go, "Woah, this is crazy". At no point did I get downed, knocked around, lose health or have to revive. At no point was I unable to clear an entire group of them with a single, maybe two, clicks of my mouse or button presses. I was clearing everything, popping my skill when I thought it was clear and still getting nailed because of a long cast time.

It's ridiculous that I am making a comment on the number of effects on screen being overwhelming that people are saying I need to learn to play the game. When the actual fact I could stand there and take in this crazy situation with zero worries about the damage is an indicator that I have the mods, weapons and experience to make a build that can do that.

Edit: Please understand, I know you're being helpful and it is very much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to try and solve the issue. I'm just frustrated that I made an innocuous comment about the amount of effects on screen getting to the upper limit of what I can enjoy, and this has got the "git gud" police out.

Right, sorry. Usually any complaints leveraged at a mechanic or system has me going “Now is it the mechanic, or is it that you haven’t learned how to deal with it?”; typically I try to keep the “Git good” out of the talking about it, since there’s nothing wrong with not knowing (unless someone insists they know better when it’s questionable at best)

But I can respect that I made an incorrect assumption regarding you, an unfair kneejerk. I hear your worries about a precedence, and personally I haven’t experienced much to lend credence to it, but I’m now keeping an eye out and an open mind as to whether I just never paid attention

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

40 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Right, sorry. Usually any complaints leveraged at a mechanic or system has me going “Now is it the mechanic, or is it that you haven’t learned how to deal with it?”; typically I try to keep the “Git good” out of the talking about it, since there’s nothing wrong with not knowing (unless someone insists they know better when it’s questionable at best)

But I can respect that I made an incorrect assumption regarding you, an unfair kneejerk. I hear your worries about a precedence, and personally I haven’t experienced much to lend credence to it, but I’m now keeping an eye out and an open mind as to whether I just never paid attention

Mate, I really appreciate you going through all the important questions. Because you are right, the majority of the time someone doesn't understand a mechanic. So I am genuinely grateful that you take the time to do that. I've had the same thing reading through some of the replies here. That's why I didn't want to be snippy.

You're right to go through the variables too. It's quite possible this is just a borderlands post level 50 situation; In that series, they have a history of balancing things really well up to the original limits, but then when they start adding levels the balancing goes out of the window. When I'm noticing these insane amount of effects it's usually when we're pushing past the first full rotation with vastly overpowered frames just for giggles, and maybe that balancing is just specifically designed to stop people doing a lot of rotations and expecting them to reset.

But I have no complaints on the balance for anything I need to do. So thanks again, I do appreciate the attempt to help. I hope you have an amazing day :D

Edited Wednesday at 01:50 AM by RootyTootyAimAnShooty
Wife pointed out a typo

[Merkranire]

Just now, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

Mate, I really appreciate you going through all the important questions. Because you are right, the majority of the time someone doesn't understand a mechanic. So I am genuinely grateful that you take the time to do that. I've had the same thing reading through some of the replies here. Thats why I didn't want to be snippy.

You're right to go through the variables too. It's quite possible this is just a borderlands post level 50 situation; In that series, they have a history of balancing things really well up to the original limits, but then when they start adding levels the balancing goes out of the window. When I'm noticing these insane amount of effects it's usually when we're pushing past the first full rotation with vastly overpowered frames just for giggles, and maybe that balancing is just specifically designed to stop people doing a lot of rotations and expecting them to reset.

But I have no complaints on the balance for anything I need to do. So thanks again, I do appreciate the attempt to help. I hope you have an amazing day :D

Warframe’s balance is weird and convoluted, and I won’t claim to know its every twists and turns, but there are some basic things that can be pieced together when considering what you’re bringing, how it’s built, and what you’re doing. Steel Path in particular reminds me of your point about Borderlands, where the game has pretty understandable balance leading up to the mode, but then falls apart when SP swoops in with its SP-specific modifiers that not even similar-level alternative content shares.

You’re certainly a lot more thoughtful than I was expecting; I was fully expecting you to come at me with “WhY watcH posItIoNing when yoU can jUst NoT?” line of arguing, so while you appreciate my attempts to help, I greatly appreciate that you didn’t try and do that 😄

[TrueGrim]

First point - people have different styles on how they like to play, I for example parkour like an octogenarian skate boarding, so am more of a slow and steady type. This post was obviously aimed at the people who aren't constantly bouncing around like an undead rogue looking for a pvp match. A lot of people replying here fit in to the "fast moving" play style type, and can see no issue with the green beam of death, understandably, however this thread is not aimed at you.

Second point - newer players do not have half the mods needed to survive even the time it takes to cast an ability. These game ruining mechanics appear to be in all game types, steel path and normal so are unavoidable, even if you feel you are not up to the task of dealing with them skill wise yet.

Third point - What is the problem this hack is trying to resolve? Most missions I see start with 4 people joining a mission, one person will have a high power build or parkour like spiderman, dealing 90% of the damage needed, everyone else is just running to keep up. Forcing people to contend with, well lets be honest, rezzing every 5 seconds means that gap just gets bigger. 

What is the outcome DE are trying to achieve? Is there not a solution that could fit all skill/concentration levels? Perhaps keep the GBOD (green beam of death) but make it a stationary cast, or reduce the damage it does, or makes the damage it does a percentage of players health, or maybe makes it a once a mission type affair instead of constant.

What ever the outcome to me it feels like I might as well be playing with a random instant death coin flip every few seconds, which I do not personally find engaging or fun.

[TrueGrim]

Do DE even look at feedback given on the forums? At the moment it feels a little like urinating in to the wind. If DE are not interacting with this then like a broken pencil, this is pointless, and we may as well all accept this is what warframe is and we should try and find a game that better suits our preferred play styles.

[Corvid]

12 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

First point - people have different styles on how they like to play, I for example parkour like an octogenarian skate boarding, so am more of a slow and steady type. This post was obviously aimed at the people who aren't constantly bouncing around like an undead rogue looking for a pvp match. A lot of people replying here fit in to the "fast moving" play style type, and can see no issue with the green beam of death, understandably, however this thread is not aimed at you.

You can literally outrun the "Green beam of Death" by walking. As in unmodified "Aim down sights" movement speed.

While it does speed up a bit if it connects, a single roll will get you out of its range and bring its speed back down to default.

To be quite frank, if walking around and occasionally rolling is too fast for you, that's a you problem.

It's also worth noting that its damage only becomes high if you literally sit inside the beam uninterrupted. It ramps up over time, and breaking out of it for even a split second will completely reset its damage output.

11 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

Do DE even look at feedback given on the forums?

They do, and they've already made adjustments to the Eximus. But looking at feedback is not the same thing as automatically implementing it. If the complaint about Jade Light enemies is that they force you to move even slightly (because, again, it only takes the bare minimum of movement to stay out of the beam, and that's without even considering the multiple other ways you can counter it), congratulations, that's the entire point of the unit.

Edited yesterday at 10:06 AM by Corvid

[Tsukinoki]

12 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

First point - people have different styles on how they like to play, I for example parkour like an octogenarian skate boarding, so am more of a slow and steady type. This post was obviously aimed at the people who aren't constantly bouncing around like an undead rogue looking for a pvp match. A lot of people replying here fit in to the "fast moving" play style type, and can see no issue with the green beam of death, understandably, however this thread is not aimed at you.

As mentioned above by Corvid, the beams are so slow you can out walk them.  No need to run, jump or bullet jump to avoid them.  Just walk in circles and it can't touch you.

If it does touch you, you can just roll out of it, and then proceed to go back to walking in circles to avoid it.

And if walking with the occasional rolling is, how you put it "constantly bouncing around like an undead rogue looking for a pvp match", then I would hate to see what you consider a sedate pace.

12 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

Second point - newer players do not have half the mods needed to survive even the time it takes to cast an ability. These game ruining mechanics appear to be in all game types, steel path and normal so are unavoidable, even if you feel you are not up to the task of dealing with them skill wise yet.

Again, you can out walk them.

Second: At lower levels they deal lower damage so as not to overwhelm a new player.  And at the lower level of planets the jade beam generally won't do enough damage to kill a frame by itself anyways.

Third: If you break contact with the beam in any way, even for a half second, it resets the beams damage back to its minimum, meaning that if you can just walk around a bit a low level jade eximus beam can't even break an unmodded shield of most starter frames.

It is literally only a problem if you hear the beam windup sound, see the massive green light, and then sit there staring at it and doing absolutely nothing about it as you watch your shields and health drain.

12 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

What ever the outcome to me it feels like I might as well be playing with a random instant death coin flip every few seconds, which I do not personally find engaging or fun.

At this point I have to seriously ask: Have you actually encountered a jade eximus in a normal mission?

Because you are just making up a lot of hyperbole with nothing to back it up.
Just like the person that was trying to claim that invisibility doesn't work on the beams (when it very much does).

 

Even at steel path the beams are not "random instant death".
There is a loud sound when it reach over your head, and then your screen is filled with green light.  If you roll once out of the way, guess what?  You'll take next to no damage and can then just walk away from the beam as you look around for the singular jade eximus to kill (because outside of the event jade eximus are relatively rare eximus units), or shoot the ball to disable the beam for a good while.

But again, you seem to think that single rolls and walking is much too fast a pace to play the game apparently....

Edited yesterday at 10:51 AM by Tsukinoki

[supernils]

On 2024-06-27 at 4:31 AM, _Eclips3_ said:

designed as an anti-AFK feature

did they explicitly say that anywhere?

Yes the hordes of Jade Eximus right now can be annoying. But once the event will be over, I think it will be much more relaxed and you can take your breathers.

[RichardKam]

43分钟前 , supernils 说:

did they explicitly say that anywhere?

Yes the hordes of Jade Eximus right now can be annoying. But once the event will be over, I think it will be much more relaxed and you can take your breathers.

anti-afk is a meme because jade light cannot target invisible target and does nothing against revenant.

If jade eximus is deigned to be anti-afk then DE did a very lousy job indeed.

[TrueGrim]

Thankyou to those who took the time to read and reply to my comment.

I understand that you believe you can just hit one movement button and the beam is no longer a problem for you, and if you truly believe that then I can understand that this mechanic is not a problem for you. What I am asking you to understand is that for some people connection speeds are lower, irl interruptions are more often (kids, cats on Keyboards, spouses, etc.), and yes skill is lower (reaction time, knowing what to press). It is clear that there is still a prominent problem for a percentage of players, and by gas lighting them, telling them "there is no problem" you are not helping them or the warframe community in general.

I understand you have no problem with the GBOD, but short of somehow capturing my gameplay, I don't know how else to describe the problem as I find it except as stated above. Sure if I am standing there doing nothing then moving from the beam isn't a problem, but it is when I cast an ability at the same time the beam starts up, or try and hack a terminal, or even just busy dodging mobs and other beams then in what to me feels like under 2 seconds (it maybe 3 it maybe 1 I have not timed it) I go from full health to dead, this is frantic gameplay that is not enjoyable compared to pre GBOD game play.

My question about DE reading this is more about if they do not reply how do we know they have registered there is still an issue? I know they have attempted to fix it a few times already, but knowing further tweaking will take place would be a light at the end of the tunnel for a section of the community. 

[Thorham]

16 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

First point - people have different styles on how they like to play, I for example parkour like an octogenarian skate boarding, so am more of a slow and steady type.

Is rolling out of the beam when it starts up really that hard?

16 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

Second point - newer players do not have half the mods needed to survive even the time it takes to cast an ability.

Then don't stand in the beam.

16 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

Is there not a solution that could fit all skill/concentration levels?

Rolling out of something is a low bar, though.

[PR1D3]

On 2024-06-26 at 9:31 PM, _Eclips3_ said:

In my view, game design should enhance the experience, not dictate it. It should allow for flexibility in how players choose to engage with the game.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive and all games do this to some degree.

[Hayrack]

4 hours ago, Corvid said:

You can literally outrun the "Green beam of Death" by walking. As in unmodified "Aim down sights" movement speed.

Hahaha, this is an absolute lie!

[TrueGrim]

3 hours ago, Thorham said:

Is rolling out of the beam when it starts up really that hard?

 

3 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

by gas lighting them, telling them "there is no problem" you are not helping them or the warframe community in general.

 

[Thorham]

53 minutes ago, TrueGrim said:

by gas lighting them, telling them "there is no problem" you are not helping them or the warframe community in general.

No, you're not helping because you're complaining that rolling out of a telegraphed beam is too hard 🙄

Edited 19 hours ago by Thorham

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, Hayrack said:

Hahaha, this is an absolute lie!

I did it right before making that post, just to make sure. Without any boosts to my frame's movement speed, I was able to stay ahead of the beam just by walking while aiming my weapon. In fact, I was moving at pretty much the exact same speed as it was.

You do need to move a bit quicker to get out from under the beam during its startup (which I did mention in the part of the comment that you conveniently excluded), but a simple roll is enough for that.

Edited 19 hours ago by Corvid

[TrueGrim]

14 minutes ago, Thorham said:

No, you're not helping because you're complaining that rolling out of a telegraphed beam is too hard 🙄

Will you agree that a group of people have expressed having difficulties with the beam? Also accept that people are aware of rolling, moving etc?

Now even though you personally do not have an issue here there is an issue for some people, mentioned many times by many different people. 

Telling someone they there is no problem where there obviously is one (for those individuals) is what is known as "gas lighting"

Repeatedly gas lighting any one who mentions this problem does not help get it resolved.

5 hours ago, TrueGrim said:

I understand that you believe you can just hit one movement button and the beam is no longer a problem for you, and if you truly believe that then I can understand that this mechanic is not a problem for you.

When an issue is not a problem for you, that does not automatically mean it's fine for everyone.

lets say you are in a running club, and you personally can run a 5 minuet mile, now lets say the club runs a fun run event where a 7 minuet mile is required to join in a on the mile photoshoot. Now for you this seems like no issue, not a problem, nothing to see here, but for many runners in the club this is problematic. The issue only made worse by the fact the club was a casual club when they joined. 

Sorry bad analogy, but best I could come up with on the spur as it were.

[TrueGrim]

5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

You do need to move a bit quicker to get out from under the beam during its startup (which I did mention in the part of the comment that you conveniently excluded), but a simple roll is enough for that.

I don't think anyone is saying the GBOD is impossible to avoid (except certain circumstances), but more implying it has added a layer of difficulty to the game that makes it less fun for certain groups of players. They are also saying it is forcing a change to their play style that they do not appreciate. Where you could enjoy Warframe with many different play styles, that list is being reduced.

[Corvid]

12 minutes ago, TrueGrim said:

They are also saying it is forcing a change to their play style that they do not appreciate.

With all the ways there are to counter the beam (Basic movement, destroying the Emitter, killing the Eximus, starting a finisher on any target, subsuming and casting Silence, etc), in order for it to be a problem your playstyle has to be "Standing still, not shooting or attacking anything".

At which point, the question becomes "are you even playing the game?".

[TrueGrim]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

your playstyle has to be "Standing still, not shooting or attacking anything".

come now that's a VERY bad faith take on it, you could be standing at an intercept objective shooting mobs, aim shooting mobs etc. A lot of people like to shoot while still to make aiming easier. This is especially the case with newer or less skilled players.

As for melee attacking a mob, generally this does not move you around sufficiently to avoid the beam.

Again you are trying to make out there is not a problem, where it has clearly been stated by many that there is. Stop gas lighting.