I'm loathing the eventual discussion surrounding Xaku happening again since their Prime is soon.

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

4 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

Nah f*ck that, if we did that with video games they'd be bland as sh*t. Samus would be another dude in armor, Fallout would just be walking in a wasteland with no one to talk to, the Metal Gear series would evaporate into non-existence, I prefer when creators push the envelope and go into unknown territory instead of walking on eggshells to avoid Gamer™ tantrums.

Hey, if it's done nicely, no one is complaining.  There a lot of great examples in the wild

However, if it's dei for the sake of investors money, gamers are right to be mad

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

If someone has an issue with something being inclusive, PC or woke... who cares?

They get to spend all their time in real life complaining about this sort of stuff. If they have an issue with it in a game then they can play a different game. I don't care what sort of reasoning they have, that the game puts them off, that they pay money too, blah, blah, blah.

If DE says Xaku is non-binary, then Xaku is non-binary. They can deal or move along.

[TeaHands]

1 minute ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

Hey, if it's done nicely, no one is complaining.  There a lot of great examples in the wild

Lol that's not true at all. I mean a good amount of players in Warframe can barely handle Jade right now and she is a fantastic frame with a tragic backstory, but she's too woke for some here because she looks pregnant.

6 minutes ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

However, if it's dei for the sake of investors money, gamers are right to be mad

Oh no! Not DEI/Feminazis/PC/Wokeness/SJWs/Sweetbaby Inc/*insert whatever popular boogeyman Gamers are wincing at*! That's toooooo scary because a Youtuber/Streamer told me it's scary!

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Xycelium said:

And even when confirmation came through that Xaku was indeed nonbinary, they would still be treated poorly as some would say that it's impossible for a Warframe to be nonbinary, that there are only two sexes, and the usual outdated rhetoric one could expect.

You arent looking at it for what it is. Xaku isnt a single entity, it is non-binary in that way, since it is made up of 3 distinct individuals, it is a patch work frame. So parts of it is female and parts of it are male depending on the sexes of the hosts of the frames that died and eventually got stitched together as Xaku.

Also. There are only two sexes, since sex (biological make up of your body) and gender (cultural etc. identity) are not the same. So if for instance you find yourself born in the wrong body, your body is still the sex you were born as while your gender might be something different according to you. Since you will never be able to achieve the things that are tied to the genetic sex no matter how much you alter the body. A man born in a womans body will never be able to impregnate for instance, and a woman born in a mans body will never be able to give birth. They will also not suffer from specific sex related condition. Like a man born in a womans body will never have a risk for prostate cancer, nor run the increased risk of having their main vein burst beyond a certain age. Just as woman born as a man will never face conditions specifically tied to the female sex.

[PublikDomain]

8 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Wouldn't it be xaku and lavos?

It'll be either Xaku or Yareli and then Lavos. After Protea is another female frame, which would be Yareli:

But Xaku has to go somewhere. Xaku either takes the next female slot or the next male slot. Given the difference in popularity I think it's incredibly likely it's Xaku (?)→ Lavos (M) → Sevagoth (M) → Yareli (F) → Gyre (F) → ...

[TsukuyomiNoGeki]

47 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

Lol that's not true at all. I mean a good amount of players in Warframe can barely handle Jade right now and she is a fantastic frame with a tragic backstory, but she's too woke for some here because she looks pregnant.

Oh no! Not DEI/Feminazis/PC/Wokeness/SJWs/Sweetbaby Inc/*insert whatever popular boogeyman Gamers are wincing at*! That's toooooo scary because a Youtuber/Streamer told me it's scary!

[TeaHands]

20 minutes ago, TsukuyomiNoGeki said:

[L3512]

26 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

But Xaku has to go somewhere. Xaku either takes the next female slot or the next male slot. Given the difference in popularity I think it's incredibly likely it's Xaku (?)→ Lavos (M) → Sevagoth (M) → Yareli (F) → Gyre (F) → ...

Hopefully they forget Caliban.

Big brain move would be to go F, F, Xaku, M, M but that would mean Yarelli jumping the que by a fair amount. Still Xaku or Lavos for Christmas looks alright.

[Xycelium]

10 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Frames are made from different people, and gender is a personal choice, so why would every frame of a certain model be the same gender?

I'm a bit confused on what you're referring to, honestly. I was only talking about Xaku in that quote.

10 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

• I think the wiki says it best, Xaku is a "pulriform". They are 3 different "dead/lost" frames put together to form a new one. They are no more "non-bianary" than Frankenstein's monster is. In fact, as far as I know, we don't even know if Xaku is comprised of male and female parts, as they very well could be 3 male frames put together.

Frankenstein's Monster was composed of one human brain right? It was the different body parts that he inhabited that would consider him a 'pluriform', but that's not accurate due to him still being one person inside of the body. Xaku, even if composed of 3 male frames, would still be nonbinary through the convention that you can be in fact originally male and then be nonbinary.

10 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

• Not to mention, "non-binary" is all about "gender" according to those that bring it up. And supposedly gender has nothing to do with what sex you are.... And that's all 99% of frames are, are near mindless "puppets" that are comprised of nothing but what is physically left... which is to say their sex.

It's not that gender has nothing to do with sex, rather that gender doesn't have to be 100% correlative to it. And I don't know about you, but I don't think about the genitals nor sexual structure of a given Warframe when I first see them, so I can't say that's an issue of mine.

10 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

• Personally, Xaku looks like a dude to me and I will continue to call him that. Him being slotted into the "female" spot means nothing to me, because he's a pulriform at the end of the day, and it means I get one of my favorite frames primed 3+ months faster than the alternative

Curious... could you scroll up a bit in this or your post for me? I don't get the point of mislabeling them to only had been doing so properly beforehand. It's just really weird on your behalf. And just as a reminder; it's they/them. :P

10 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Frames have nothing to do with gender, as "gender is a construct" as supporters of this idea love to tote. But frames have no mind to "construct" ideas with. Stop trying to insert your issues and ideologies into things that have nothing to do with them. It's grating and counterproductive.

The fact that gender is a social construct, does not mean that gender does not exist nor is non-tangible. It's still a thing that people can struggle with, whether personally or externally depending on how they choose to express it. Also, you mean the "ideologies" that DE put into the game? If you find that to be so distraughtful, then I feel like you should have avoided this game altogether due to how many different issues and ideas are expressed through it.

9 hours ago, RichardKam said:

It is funny. People nowadays seems so fixated on this whole gender things that makes you wonder if English is evolving into French or something.

Maybe to you. I don't know what else to say besides; you can always catch up and learn about these things. It would make life so much easier, but also more fun! :3

9 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Xaku is a warframe, and is a composite of three warframes. He/She/Whatever is literally a frankenstein monster, component of warframes stitched together. Are we trying to assign gender to frankenstein monster as well? Is The Ship of Theseus non-binary? Shall I change the pronoun of my car after replacing its engine? Given the Helminth section has some degree of intelligence, would it be considered offensive if I gave him a boy or girl name without the Helminth consent?

They. Simple as.

Also Frankenstein's Monster has already been assigned gender to it, from the original text itself it's been referred to with male pronouns lol. You can interpret the Ship of Theseus how you like, the same way you can determine how you want to refer to your car. I know you're not asking these questions sincerely, but come on, you are kinda answering yourself when you say these things. Just have fun, dude.

[Xycelium]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You arent looking at it for what it is. Xaku isnt a single entity, it is non-binary in that way, since it is made up of 3 distinct individuals, it is a patch work frame. So parts of it is female and parts of it are male depending on the sexes of the hosts of the frames that died and eventually got stitched together as Xaku.

Again, they are a pluriform, and they are, by definition through that, nonbinary. I don't think that's hard.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also. There are only two sexes, since sex (biological make up of your body) and gender (cultural etc. identity) are not the same. So if for instance you find yourself born in the wrong body, your body is still the sex you were born as while your gender might be something different according to you. Since you will never be able to achieve the things that are tied to the genetic sex no matter how much you alter the body. A man born in a womans body will never be able to impregnate for instance, and a woman born in a mans body will never be able to give birth. They will also not suffer from specific sex related condition. Like a man born in a womans body will never have a risk for prostate cancer, nor run the increased risk of having their main vein burst beyond a certain age. Just as woman born as a man will never face conditions specifically tied to the female sex.

Sex is rather bimodal, or at least dimorphic in nature. The chromosomal structure for one person, can be considerably different from another person of the same sex as them. And I'm not necessarily talking about facial hair or body width / ratio; but it can also involve things such as our testosterone / estrogen levels and production, our breast tissue and whether or not one could lactate, and of course our genitals. And sometimes, these things are not 100% aligned with a binary structure, as we do in fact have intersex people as an example.

Also, I knew about the distinction between sex and gender and how those things work in regards to dysphoria. Thank you for the reminder I guess.

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, L3512 said:

Hopefully they forget Caliban.

Big brain move would be to go F, F, Xaku, M, M but that would mean Yarelli jumping the que by a fair amount. Still Xaku or Lavos for Christmas looks alright.

The one Caliban fan is probably really offended by that.

For fun here are some ordering options explained visually:

Xaku in the next female slot is pretty clean and they could more or less follow the existing release order. Xaku in the next male slot would be kinda nuts. Xaku in between the F F / M M rotation doesn't have as large of a jump but they'd still need another female frame to go after Jade before getting to Dante.

2 hours ago, Xycelium said:

I'm a bit confused on what you're referring to, honestly. I was only talking about Xaku in that quote.

Canonically, Warframes are made from different people. The Loki with serial number 148-H came from a different person than a Loki with for example serial number 148-G. The first Excalibur came from a different person than Umbra, even though they're both Excaliburs. So I think it's a bit backwards to be concerned with "people not respecting [Xaku's] identity" when every Xaku is a unique person/group of people. Maybe the original Xaku's hivemind was non-binary in whatever way that means to you, but all other Xakus made out of other people will have had different experiences and identities. Isn't assuming that all Xakus are non-binary making the same kind of assumptions about their identities?

[TARINunit9]

17 hours ago, trst said:

Regardless, I'll never understand why some people get so hung up over these kinds of things like DE is personally attacking them with such inclusions

Having spent the last four years of my life investigating the kinds of people who do, I can say with authority: the fact you don't understand means you have a functioning brain plus a healthy moral compass. Please cherish and enjoy your life

[Dex-Lemon]

I don't care what Xaku is honestly (and this is coming from a man as straight as you can imagine), I like the frame (I main Xaku), I play the frame, I don't give two cents about what anyone from the both side of the isle think of it. It's a game and it should remain as is.. A GAME. Not everything needs to be political. A game is a form of entertainment, try keep it strictly to entertainment purpose, you have plenty other places and platforms to be political and personal, not in gaming. That's my opinion.

Edited Wednesday at 07:39 PM by Dex-Lemon

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

Isn't Xaku just an amalgamation of broken warframe parts? They could easily just mash random prime frames into one and put some lore that someone combined the remains of multiple shattered prime warframes for X purpose and throw Xaku Prime in the male cycle of 2 male 2 female prime release windows. It doesn't need to be complicated. I remember a similar discussion regarding Nezha before his prime dropped, and also some lore disagreements about valkyr. I'd be more concerned with how the prime variant looks in regards to fashion frame rather than the occasional lore scuffles.

[Anemone.Antimony]

more effort than this idiot discourse deserves but it's actually unreal that people try to justify these olympic level mental gymnastics instead of just accepting the word of god that the void-powered corpse amalgam is non-binary and going on with their lives

3 hours ago, Dex-Lemon said:

I don't care what Xaku is honestly (and this is coming from a man as straight as you can imagine), I like the frame (I main Xaku), I play the frame, I don't give two cents about what anyone from the both side of the isle think of it. It's a game and it should remain as is.. A GAME. Not everything needs to be political. A game is a form of entertainment, try keep it strictly to entertainment purpose, you have plenty other places and platforms to be political and personal, not in gaming. That's my opinion.

errrm could you not shove your identity down people's throats like that? can't go five minutes without the straights pushing their fetishistic hetero agenda everywhere

this is what you sound like. absurd, right? try thinking about things objectively - if you were smart, you'd know that queer identities being politicized at all is strictly far-right culture war BS from people that want the world to be as miserable and homogenized as possible. you think you're not taking sides, but you're very firmly taking their side when you push back on anything that isn't heteronormative because it's "political," instead of just accepting people for who they are. this is exactly what they want. want to be better? stop whining about how anything outside your dull picket fence norm is political and learn to accept things in stride

[SolStreak]

19 hours ago, Xycelium said:

Okay in all seriousness, you are partially correct on the basis that Xaku is considered to be a pluriform as the wiki labels them, since that does most accurately describe their current state. However, I believe you seem to also miss parts of the wiki that literally refer to them properly;

• Xaku is a composite of three Warframes that used to be beneficiaries of the Entrati. Throughout the ages, the trio were lost to the Void. Over time, their shattered remnants fused together into the being that is now known as Xaku.
• Broken Warframes adrift in the Void converged to create Xaku. Together, they deal high damage. Xaku proves that the sum of the whole is greater than its parts.

Now if you want to assume that Xaku is simply just the skeleton by itself, then they would still be a composite of the three Warframes, because those three are still controlling Xaku even in their Skeletal form. How else do you think Xaku is still able to perform 'The Lost' while in that form? And quite literally, Xaku is defined by the lost frames that compose them.

And I just wanted point out the sentence I highlighted real quick, because I'm not sure if you realize you sorta contradicted yourself. First, you can in fact assign a gender to a group. If a group is all male, you can refer to them as such, and vice versa and either way. We already do so when we refer to groups as "they", as that is literally a gendered pronoun (as it refers to multiple or indeterminate gender). Second, how are you going to say something is not to be gendered, and then right afterwards gender it? It's frankly quite confusing on your part.

Well, there's a thing called a slip-up, I typed He instead of They. I just haven't gotten used to using They, I apologize if my mistake required you to quote the wiki. About the group thing, I mean it as referring to the group, like The group, not as assigning gender to the group's members. Like you can't refer to a group with he or she, regardless if the group is homogenous.

Also, about the skeleton, I guess I can rethink about it. The way I said it made it sounds like Xaku as the 4th frame took the parts of the 3 frames for his body. It's like the 3 frames are just Xaku's armor instead of part of Xaku, which is incorrect. Would it be correct if I say Xaku is the new identity of the 3 lost frames?

[(PSN)Unstar]

23 hours ago, Xycelium said:

I'm loathing the eventual discussion surrounding Xaku happening again since their Prime is soon.

I get you; I strongly dislike that as well.  But with respect, I'm disappointed that you chose to write a post that was guaranteed to manifest the very thing you claim to loathe.  In the future, please don't do this.

[L3512]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Xaku in the next female slot is pretty clean and they could more or less follow the existing release order. Xaku in the next male slot would be kinda nuts. Xaku in between the F F / M M rotation doesn't have as large of a jump but they'd still need another female frame to go after Jade before getting to Dante.

Interesting visualisation, Xaku in a M slot is really convoluted as they need to pull in Voruna super early. Either way looks like we are getting a Styanax/Caliban double header so that's pretty bleak.

Maybe I'll make the same sort of list from the start of WF primes to see how it looked in the past.

[L3512]

3 hours ago, Anemone.Antimony said:

instead of just accepting the word of god

Good job sounding insane.

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

Maybe I'll make the same sort of list from the start of WF primes to see how it looked in the past.

Don't you tempt me with a good time!

Spoiler

Starts off pretty chaotic with the original 8 but that's to be expected since the order in the list is arbitrary. Nova before Trinity and Saryn though, that one was a surprise back in the day. And Banshee is way out of order! But once they get to Oberon it calmed down a bit. If you make a strict first in, first out ordering you end up with basically the same M M and F F groups which I found pretty interesting.

[(PSN)thowed]

3 hours ago, L3512 said:

Good job sounding insane.

Theres more of that acceptance a certain group likes to preach about.  This is why I never feel bad when people are offended about these kinda things because they only believe you should have the same thoughts as them or be quiet. I could tell you a bunch of stuff that sounds insane but ill get hit with buzzwords and a ban.  Please block me if you dont like this, I wouldn't talk to you anyway (that goes for anyone).  GOD bless.

[Xycelium]

12 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Canonically, Warframes are made from different people. The Loki with serial number 148-H came from a different person than a Loki with for example serial number 148-G. The first Excalibur came from a different person than Umbra, even though they're both Excaliburs. So I think it's a bit backwards to be concerned with "people not respecting [Xaku's] identity" when every Xaku is a unique person/group of people. Maybe the original Xaku's hivemind was non-binary in whatever way that means to you, but all other Xakus made out of other people will have had different experiences and identities. Isn't assuming that all Xakus are non-binary making the same kind of assumptions about their identities?

But you could just use this logic for every other Warframe then. What's to say every single person that was used to create a Warframe were the exact same gender / identity that the Warframe possesses? Also, I feel like I am pretty valid in my concern about not respecting Xaku's identity, due to the fact that's exactly what was happening when they released.

[Xycelium]

13 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

Stop obsessing over gender, orientation and race.

There is no problem if you don't make it. You're doing this to yourself, stop blaming other people and forcing your unhealthy fixations on the rest of society.

Nobody needs to know or respect your pronouns. It's nobody's job or responsibility to care about your gender ideology. Keep it to yourself.

If you try to force your ideology on other people, their culture and their hobbies, don't cry when they understandably react with hostility. You are initiating power struggle, and it's only correct that people respond in kind.

What is your issue? I don't understand your hostility and your need to act like this. I don't even need to directly respond to your claims about me forcing an ideology or power struggle, because this is exactly what someone who thinks expressing anything that could be progressive as inherently harmful would say.

11 hours ago, Dex-Lemon said:

I don't care what Xaku is honestly (and this is coming from a man as straight as you can imagine), I like the frame (I main Xaku), I play the frame, I don't give two cents about what anyone from the both side of the isle think of it. It's a game and it should remain as is.. A GAME. Not everything needs to be political. A game is a form of entertainment, try keep it strictly to entertainment purpose, you have plenty other places and platforms to be political and personal, not in gaming. That's my opinion.

Well, gender is not inherently political so that's one thing. And another, a lot of games just so happen to be political, and Warframe is not far off from being the same. I've already stated multiple times that the Corpus and Solaris are the most obvious examples, but even the Grineer are so in their monarchical hierarchy structure that persists in their ranks, the Orokin from their ideologies surrounding superiority and state suppression, and the Infested? Well, if only there was a recent event that I could think involving a deadly virus that was massively spread around the world in a pandemic-like fashion that could have been prevented if certain governments weren't trotting around and finding out.

Point is, there's nothing wrong with viewing games through a political lens, as that in it of itself can be a form of entertainment, like for me! :3

7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I get you; I strongly dislike that as well.  But with respect, I'm disappointed that you chose to write a post that was guaranteed to manifest the very thing you claim to loathe.  In the future, please don't do this.

I understand that now, however, I wanted to get a general vibe check from the community. Sadly, I may have been proven correct on my assumptions.

[Hayrack]

Warframes don't have sex nor gender - only forms. Xaku - non-binary form, whose identity is defined by operator. Xaku - not your personal warframe, your assigned labels are no more right or wrong than those you try to argue about. Stop label-gating Xaku - warframe meant for everybody.

[WERElektro]

OP, I would have said you're painting devils on the wall -
Xaku prime is yet to happen, and by "loathing the discussion that might or might not come" you're stirring up.... right..... discussions.
This thread is turning into a S#&$show quite quickly.

That said... The previous ingame description of Xaku said

"blablablabla NEITHER HE NOR SHE blablabla"

And now there's me who's wondering what's so difficult to understand about that sentence (Except the bits that were replaced with "blablabla" obvs)...
What about this sentence is political or """woke"""?

Neither he nor she.....
To that I say: okay. cool.

And if any of you sense a political conspiracy there- I'd recommend you to grow tf up. In case you've already "Grown up", check in to the next psych ward.