I'm loathing the eventual discussion surrounding Xaku happening again since their Prime is soon.

[Xycelium]

2 hours ago, Hayrack said:

Warframes don't have sex nor gender - only forms. Xaku - non-binary form, whose identity is defined by operator. Xaku - not your personal warframe, your assigned labels are no more right or wrong than those you try to argue about. Stop label-gating Xaku - warframe meant for everybody.

What? So the Operator, and by extension the player, is the one who defines the identity of a given Warframe, but it's also not my personal Warframe? I don't get what you mean.

Also, by 'label-gating' do you mean just taking the word of what the developers have stated and confirmed? As with every single other Warframe? I'm so confused here lol.

[Hayrack]

36 minutes ago, Xycelium said:

What? So the Operator, and by extension the player, is the one who defines the identity of a given Warframe, but it's also not my personal Warframe? I don't get what you mean.

Also, by 'label-gating' do you mean just taking the word of what the developers have stated and confirmed? As with every single other Warframe? I'm so confused here lol.

Do you know there is such thing as non-binary males and females? The beauty of Xaku is that it can represent anybody outside of binary spectrum, as well as inside. Reflect on this scene:

 

Edited July 4 by Hayrack

[Anemone.Antimony]

8 hours ago, L3512 said:

Good job sounding insane.

it's an expression meaning what the creator(s) of a piece of media has confirmed as canon regardless of what the fans think, jagoff

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

1 hour ago, Anemone.Antimony said:

it's an expression meaning what the creator(s) of a piece of media has confirmed as canon regardless of what the fans think, jagoff

But the way you're going about it is not helping the situation, to be perfectly honest. You just went off on someone who really has just said they don't care.

I live in deep MAGA land, so I get it that people who say they are not taking a side are enabling the really hateful people. But look at what the person said who you jumped down the throat of; Literally a single post on this subject, essentially saying, "I don't care, I main Xaku anyway". They don't have a history of making these comments and they haven't said anything like what you accused them of.

So when you jump down the throat of someone like that, you just give fuel to the actual haters. And to be perfectly honest, I am as sick and tired of fighting my own side acting like children as well as the bigots. Because the only way you actually change peoples minds is showing them they're wrong, not shouting it at them.

The way you actually approach someone like that is: "Hey man, I appreciate that you don't really care. But just so you're aware, when you say you don't want a game to be political, that kind of adds credence to the idea that this is a push from both sides of the aisle. The thing is, we're not the ones giving any push or pushback on this. The only people that are really making this political are the haters because DE is being inclusive to non-traditional genders and sexuality. I don't think that you were intending to give that credence, so I thought I'd just let you know how it comes across."

That's how you approach someone who has said something that, most likely, was unintentional. You don't come straight in with the condescension and putting words into their mouth. When you act like the latter, you objectively make peoples lives worse in real life, because you don't change opinions, you just entrench them. You potentially make my life harder in real life when someone finds out I'm bi. Because they've been jumped on by people in a super aggressive way and assume I'm going to be the same when they express relatively tame opinions on the matter.

It's fine being angry about this. I'm angry about this stuff. But use that anger correctly and on the right people.

Edited July 4 by RootyTootyAimAnShooty

[Slayer-.]

3 hours ago, Hayrack said:

Do you know there is such thing as non-binary males and females? The beauty of Xaku is that it can represent anybody outside of binary spectrum, as well as inside. Reflect on this scene:

 

That was one hell of a TV series, watched it from start to finish when it aired along with all the movies. 

It also showed what the aliens everyone wanted to see and believe.

Edited July 4 by Slayer-.
everyone

[Anemone.Antimony]

34 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

But the way you're going about it is not helping the situation, to be perfectly honest. You just went off on someone who really has just said they don't care.

I live in deep MAGA land, so I get it that people who say they are not taking a side are enabling the really hateful people. But look at what the person said who you jumped down the throat of; Literally a single post on this subject, essentially saying, "I don't care, I main Xaku anyway". They don't have a history of making these comments and they haven't said anything like what you accused them of.

So when you jump down the throat of someone like that, you just give fuel to the actual haters. And to be perfectly honest, I am as sick and tired of fighting my own side acting like children as well as the bigots. Because the only way you actually change peoples minds is showing them they're wrong, not shouting it at them.

The way you actually approach someone like that is: "Hey man, I appreciate that you don't really care. But just so you're aware, when you say you don't want a game to be political, that kind of adds credence to the idea that this is a push from both sides of the aisle. The thing is, we're not the ones giving any push or pushback on this. The only people that are really making this political are the haters because DE is being inclusive to non-traditional genders and sexuality. I don't think that you were intending to give that credence, so I thought I'd just let you know how it comes across."

That's how you approach someone who has said something that, most likely, was unintentional. You don't come straight in with the condescension and putting words into their mouth. When you act like the latter, you objectively make peoples lives worse in real life, because you don't change opinions, you just entrench them. You potentially make my life harder in real life when someone finds out I'm bi. Because they've been jumped on by people in a super aggressive way and assume I'm going to be the same when they express relatively tame opinions on the matter.

It's fine being angry about this. I'm angry about this stuff. But use that anger correctly and on the right people.

nah. civility time is over. if someone decides to be a fence-sitter when one side wants me dead like it's a valid position to say "party B wants to commit genocide, but party A is a little cringe so they're both equally bad :\", i'm driving the point through their skull

[L3512]

2 hours ago, Anemone.Antimony said:

it's an expression meaning what the creator(s) of a piece of media has confirmed as canon regardless of what the fans think, jagoff

Lol.

 

13 minutes ago, Anemone.Antimony said:

nah. civility time is over. if someone decides to be a fence-sitter when one side wants me dead like it's a valid position to say "party B wants to commit genocide, but party A is a little cringe so they're both equally bad :\", i'm driving the point through their skull

Managing to sound even more insane, I am interested to see where this goes TBH.

[quxier]

On 2024-07-03 at 2:32 AM, Xycelium said:

 

Imagine Xaku being pregnant... oh, boy, that would be fun!

On 2024-07-03 at 3:18 AM, SolStreak said:

I feel that Xaku is simply plural, like the wiki says he's 'a composite'. I like what the person above wrote, 'they' fits Xaku, not as gender-neutral pronoun, but as in referring the quantity.

Assigning a gender to a group is inaccurate, but more so assigning gender to a thing that just not meant to be gendered. He's a skeleton by the core, and I'm guessing that skeleton didn't come from any of the 3 lost frames, but it came from the Void itself. Xaku just isn't supposed to be defined by the lost frames than formed Xaku's outer shell. Xaku is just Xaku's own identity.

That may be the case English but not for other language. In Polish we have "he/she/it is" but we have as well "he plural / she plural are". So in English when we see group of females or group of males we can say "they are" for both cases. In Polish we say "one są" & "oni są" for female & male respectively. Spanish have, afair, something like this (e.g. Ellos & Ellas).

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Xycelium said:

Again, they are a pluriform, and they are, by definition through that, nonbinary. I don't think that's hard.

Yes, due to the make up of their physical body since it is made up of both sexes. We have no clue about either of the genders, so it isnt a non-binary entity based on gender. We dont know the prefered gender of any frame, we know their sexes. So when talking about Xaku, the most appropriate would be "it", since it is a singular made out of many. It is doubtful there is still a living mind in it, since it is made up of already dead/destroyed frames.

23 hours ago, Xycelium said:

Sex is rather bimodal, or at least dimorphic in nature. The chromosomal structure for one person, can be considerably different from another person of the same sex as them. And I'm not necessarily talking about facial hair or body width / ratio; but it can also involve things such as our testosterone / estrogen levels and production, our breast tissue and whether or not one could lactate, and of course our genitals. And sometimes, these things are not 100% aligned with a binary structure, as we do in fact have intersex people as an example.

Also, I knew about the distinction between sex and gender and how those things work in regards to dysphoria. Thank you for the reminder I guess.

Which results in either a male or female in the end. However, one potentially with either defects or enhanced performance compared to a standard healthy specimen of the species in question. And yes intersex people exsist, but they are also what would be classed as people with birth defects, since within intersex there are several defects not tied to what would end up defining neither a male or a female aswell. So intersex in itself is just a genetic classification of an otherwise male or female person. We dont have male (healthy), female (healthy) and intersex (healthy), we have male, female and then intersex states for those two, which would refer to an unhealthy male or female. However, some of these defects eventually disappear, and sometimes they dont appear until later in life, some also have little impact on the life of the person.

For instance, being born with exposed organs is classified as an intersex defect, that in itself isnt tied to being male or female, since being born with exposed organs isnt normal for neither. I think people are too snowed in on the gender debate of the times so they miss what certain things actually mean. All to fuel their idea of genders and sex. So no, intersex isnt some third sex, it is a serious defect in human genetics that isnt all about procreation, bewbs, balls or the hoohaa.

[PublikDomain]

9 hours ago, Xycelium said:

But you could just use this logic for every other Warframe then. What's to say every single person that was used to create a Warframe were the exact same gender / identity that the Warframe possesses?

Exactly! So the more you care, the less it should matter. If respecting gender/identity is something really important to you, then it's not something you should just assume - either for other people or for the Warframes those people were turned into. So use whatever pronouns you like.

[Letter13]

"I'm loathing the eventual discussion surrounding Xaku" [...] 'So I'm starting it now' is pretty much how this while thread feels. The premise for this thread doesn't really provide a basis for constructive discussion that enriches the game or the community; it's confrontational and actively invites the sort of discourse that often results in warning points. 

That said, if or when this 'eventual discussion' takes place and you see people posting transphobic comments or hate speech targeting non-binary individuals, here's what you do: 

1. Locate the "Report" button at the top right of the post (click the three dots to open up the post sub menu if needed)
2. Click it
3. Add a sorry message about why you are reporting the post and which rule you believe it is in violation of 
4. Do not click the "quote" button or reply to the user; do not engage them.
5. If needed, add the user to your forum Ignored Users List to hide their posts from your view