The Current Warframe Dev Team Has Completely Forgotten Why The Previous Resistances and Vulnerabilities Were Set Up The Way They Were And As A Result The New System Has Made Everything Non-Sensical

[JargenBakt]

So I had to take a small break from Warframe only to come back to one of the worst things to ever happen to the game. They gutted the whole damage system, attempted to simplify it, only for the whole game to be thrown into complete unbalance and everything not making a lick of sense.

 

Puncture and Impact being reversed now makes no sense as the weapon types for each faction were made specifically to counter each others defense types. Puncture to deal with armor and Impact to deal with shields. Cold damage also affects shields too because the more cold something gets the less energy there is in a given system. There are real-world parallels to how everything was set up. There was actual logic here and now it is complete gone.

 

I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, only that of which I mentioned above. The worst part about this is that they pushed this update just before Tennocon effectively throwing the main core system of the game into complete chaos and they won't be working on it for a while since their focus will be entirely on Tennocon.

 

I'm starting to struggle with some enemy types now being absurdly tanky for absolutely no reason because of how much they changed. These changes should have not gone through without community oversight. This changed way too much in the game and that the community should have been part of the development process so that things didn't get as bad as they did.

[PollexMessier]

I have a sneaking suspicion the resistance and weakness oversimplifications were done specifically for little Timmy on his mom's i-pad.

[KitMeHarder]

59 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

There was actual logic here and now it is complete gone.

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lore/logic

Unless you have some example of this change being bad for gameplay, I will never support a change where lore is upheld at the cost of gameplay.

59 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

I'm starting to struggle with some enemy types now being absurdly tanky for absolutely no reason because of how much they changed.

• I disagree. If this is just about impact/puncture, then they have always been the most minor out of the 13 damage types, especially when it comes enemy vulnerabilities.
• If this is about all 13 elements, then I also disagree. The meta ones feel about the same, while the others range from feeling much better to almost being as strong as the meta ones.
• If this is about enemy EHP scaling changes in general, and not just about the different elements we can mod our weapons for, then I agree in niche examples. Frames like Ember and Xaku feel noticeably weaker than they used to, as full stripping was not only devalued, but enemies have their health increased despite their levels remaining the same. Meaning frames that scale their damage off enemy level (Xaku, Vauban, etc...) were nerfed for no reason.

[JargenBakt]

1 hour ago, KitMeHarder said:

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lore/logic

Unless you have some example of this change being bad for gameplay, I will never support a change where lore is upheld at the cost of gameplay.

Many of the damage types started to become more and more useless as the game's development moved along, but that didn't stop the dev team from ensuring that there was some logic behind why some enemies were resistant/vulnerable to some damage types and not others. This sets the stage for a game that is believable because you can follow the logic from one enemy to another. The real world parallels were amazing to see and helped define the gameplay. Instead of the super oversimplification which has ground what logic there was into dust, they should have gone in and streamlined the logic even further as there were a number of things that didn't make any sense like the Normal/Elite enemies having completely different resistances/vulnerabilities & armor/shield.

The oversimplification ruins the game by basically removing all logic from all weapons and enemies

• Corpus weapons are predominately Puncture which is good for penetrating all kinds of armor.
• Grineer weapons are predominately Impact which is good for imparting as much kinetic damage on all kinds of shields.
• Tenno weapons are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none weapons typically having a balanced IPS damage set for a wide variety of enemies.
• Sentient weapons are predominately elemental weapons which varies from case to case.

The problem I have is that with the varying different damage reworks resulted in much of the logic got lost and the oversimplification that just happened did not help in this regard. Warframe set itself apart from other games by attempting to make its damage types make sense and draw real-world parallels, but clearly with each new iteration there is less applied to the logic and more applied to what the dev team feels right... but as a result it starts to appear as chaos rather than logic and does absolutely harm gameplay.

 

Impact and Cold damage should continue to affect shields the most because that's what makes sense. "Impact" is delivering as much kinetic force onto something using a lot of surface area (a flat tipped projectile). Cold is sapping away the energy of a shield by making it incredibly cold thereby "damaging it."

 

Puncture is a damage type that never served its purpose as armor penetration as far as I know. That sort of thing got relegated to Corrosive and Armor Stripping which never made any sense to start with... but in terms of logic and how it fits into the weapons and enemies of Warframe, it totally makes sense that Puncture would be most effective against Armor. Instead, the puncture damage type reduces enemy damage and adds an additive +25% Critical Chance. I would like to see Puncture get changed to armor penetration so it at least makes sense that the damage type your using is useful against armor. Even the icon for Puncture has a projectile "penetrating" a surface. At this stage they may as well rename Puncture to something else because it isn't serving its purpose and only serves to confuse.

 

The current Warframe dev team needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink this whole oversimplification. It was fine the way it was, it just needed someone to go do a logic pass and streamline everything so you don't have random bits of logic scattered all over the place.

 

And one last thing: Warframe prides itself on its lore as much as its gameplay. While the game could survive without the lore, it's pretty much ingrained into the game as well as its community. I just wish the dev team would have worked with the community on reworking one of the core systems that makes Warframe what it is rather than doing it behind closed doors where we only get to see a few previews and then the final product.

 

Edit: Thought about the following after I posted this. Think about the following:

• Impact (Shields) - Worked in the old system, does not work in the new system.
• Puncture (Armor) - Never served its purpose as armor penetration as far as I know.
• Slash (Health) - Has been pretty much the same through many of the reworks.

These three stats define the physical damage of a substantial amount of weapons in the game and the logic here isn't being followed. It's so simple it's ridiculous.

Edited Wednesday at 05:14 AM by JargenBakt

[Chewarette]

On 2024-07-03 at 5:50 AM, KitMeHarder said:

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lore/logic

Unless you have some example of this change being bad for gameplay, I will never support a change where lore is upheld at the cost of gameplay.

Well I would agree if the gameplay had been substantially improved with this update.

It hasn't.

What's the logic behind Torment being weak to Corpus weakness if he appears in Corpus' mission, and Grineer weakness if he appears in Grineer mission ? None. Why does a Corrupted Hyekka Master have different weaknesses than a normal Hyekka Master ? Did he go to the cloakrooms to change his stuff when he got corrupted ? Someone gave him a new uniform ?

Does it substantially improve the gameplay ? I guess, if you consider "the less challenges the better" being an improvement.

Furthermore, idiot-proofing everything is probably not the good way to go. "Don't think about it, this planet shows you a fire icon, just put Fire on all your weapons LOL", instead of the old one where you knew you'd face robotics, or armored enemies, or flesh and you acting accordingly was nicer.

And don't tell me "you went directly to the meta without thinking twice with the previous damage effects". Yes. You'll go to the meta with the new ones too as you won't change your setup every time you go to another planet, god forbid if you want to do Alerts/Sortie where icons don't show. That was also the point of having multiple weapons ; to get different elements capable of dealing with different threats.

In terms of gameplay, it's even worse now as it's illegible, just stick with whatever you had before and hope it'll be good enough. That's what I do and everything melts the same as before. It's a complete dumbing-down change that benefit no-one, except maybe a few beginners who really think those tooltips are the reality. When those tooltips only talk about pure damage but not status.

Edited Thursday at 11:59 AM by Chewarette

[Rexis12]

Oh my god shut the #*!% up about 'Impact is good against shield and Puncture is good against Armor, DE Lore is ruined!!!!"

They literally changed it so that the gameplay function of the two faction and their respective EHP and damage is communicated well. 

Mercy kills meant jack when shields could stop the mercy threshold and people were and still using shields, and puncture did nothing against Grinder damage since, unless you were a bombard, you did very little damage. 

They changed it to actually have a functioning game where they can actually modify the weaknesses of the specific factions by just switching up the resistances, instead of a #*!%ing system where they have to create entirely new systems for health and armor and shields that quadruples their workload and allows for incredibly dangerous moments where changing just one thing for a specific enemy #*!%s over the rest of the faction.

11 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

What's the logic behind Torment being weak to Corpus weakness if he appears in Corpus' mission, and Grineer weakness if he appears in Grineer mission ?

It was literally done as a response to Corrosive, Viral and Slash being so unanimously used due to them having a completely different set of resistances that invalidated the concept of building your weapons to beat a certain faction. 

People had to and were bringing Corrosive weapons to Corpus missions due to the fact that an Acolyte with miniscule amounts of shield but  several hundred thousands worth of Ferrite Armour would appear out of nowhere which de incentives actually diversifying your build. 

And no:

"But having the Acolyte increased diversity"

You had to bringing an anti armor weapon everywhere to ensure that, unless you were buffed to deal absurd amount as of damage, you had to deal with an enemy that can suddenly have 99% DR that interacted with absolutely nothing else in the current faction resistance wise. 

I made a joke somewhere for all factions you had to build for armor, but never for shield or infested weaknesses. 

And Acolytes are just ONE example of why that was the case. 

[Chewarette]

42 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

It was literally done as a response to Corrosive, Viral and Slash being so unanimously used due to them having a completely different set of resistances that invalidated the concept of building your weapons to beat a certain faction. 

People had to and were bringing Corrosive weapons to Corpus missions due to the fact that an Acolyte with miniscule amounts of shield but  several hundred thousands worth of Ferrite Armour would appear out of nowhere which de incentives actually diversifying your build. 

And no:

"But having the Acolyte increased diversity"

You had to bringing an anti armor weapon everywhere to ensure that, unless you were buffed to deal absurd amount as of damage, you had to deal with an enemy that can suddenly have 99% DR that interacted with absolutely nothing else in the current faction resistance wise. 

I made a joke somewhere for all factions you had to build for armor, but never for shield or infested weaknesses. 

And Acolytes are just ONE example of why that was the case. 

But nothing you said has ever changed ; Corrosive, Viral and Slash now wrecks everything just as quick as before. Just that now, even Blast, Magnetic and Gas wreck everything. Everything wrecks everything, so modding has become a game of "just put mods, whatever elemental combination will work fine".

Also for the record, considering Corrosive didn't full armor strip without the very recent Shard, the way to deal with them was through armor strip abilities - still available.

My problem with the whole change was that it was supposed to ... do something different. I can't describe what exactly because in the facts, the game which was already extremely easy became even easier as you don't even need to look at elemental combinations anymore. Anything will do. Literally. Bring cold weapons, zerg stuff. Bring Heat, zerg stuff. Bring Magnetic, zerg stuff. At least before with the absurdly infinite armor, you had to think about a special something to deal with that. Now it's no longer a problem, you just need to bring weapons with at least some mods.

I understand the change on Armor, it was absurd. But I thought the goal was for the TTK to be evened all across the board, all while being longer than 15 milliseconds. They've only done the former: TTK is equal among factions = they all die 20 at a time in one shot. There isn't this "special unit with different weaknesses" standing still after the first shot, or being so ridiculously overpowered you needed to switch weapons / strategy.

Btw, how do the special Grineer units resisting all but one elements (forgot their names) behave nowadays ? Did they inherit the faction's weakness too, or are they still immune to everything but the element ?

[KitMeHarder]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Well I would agree if the gameplay had been substantially improved with this update.

This thread and my quote weren't talking about anything besides the switch of Puncture and Impact.

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

It's a complete dumbing-down change that benefit no-one

It was a significant benefit for any damage type that used to have a negative multiplier against armor, as it basically double dipped. Elements like Blast and Electric. It also to a lesser extent buffed damage that had negative multipliers against typically armored enemies, such as Gas.

[Rexis12]

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

But nothing you said has ever changed ; Corrosive, Viral and Slash now wrecks everything just as quick as before. Just that now, even Blast, Magnetic and Gas wreck everything. Everything wrecks everything, so modding has become a game of "just put mods, whatever elemental combination will work fine".

 

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

My problem with the whole change was that it was supposed to ... do something different

" Before only these three elements wrecked things. 

Now everything can wreck things

NOTHING HAS CHANGED! "

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

At least before with the absurdly infinite armor, you had to think about a special something to deal with that

"Back then armor literally pigeon holed you into having one build and you have to have it for everything and stifled build diversity completely. 

Man that was the best and I want it back. 

I don't like it that we can diversify our builds now, I just want to use only one element! "

[Chewarette]

1 minute ago, Rexis12 said:

 

" Before only these three elements wrecked things. 

Now everything can wreck things

NOTHING HAS CHANGED! "

"Back then armor literally pigeon holed you into having one build and you have to have it for everything and stifled build diversity completely. 

Man that was the best and I want it back. 

I don't like it that we can diversify our builds now, I just want to use only one element! "

You got that the wrong way. If everything gets you the same result, changing your mods won't have any impact on your gameplay.

Oh yes of course, before you could wreck stuff with Viral/Slash or do pathetic damage with Magnetic. Now you can one-shot the whole content of the game with pure Slash, pure Corro, pure Cold, Magnetic + Gas, Corro+Explo, anything really, which means it has no impact. I would be on your side if modding had an effect, e.g. modding for Magnetic would wreck Corpus but do pitiful damage to Grineer. Currently, modding for Magnetic will destroy Corpus in half a second, and it will destroy Grineers, Narmer, Sentients and absolutely everything else in the game in half a second.

At this stage, they should have gone even beyond : Remove all elements and only leave True Damage. Same result. No need to think twice during modding.

[Rexis12]

4 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

I would be on your side if modding had an effect, e.g. modding for Magnetic would wreck Corpus but do pitiful damage to Grineer.

Lmao then you're effectively shutting down any and all concept of Elemental Frames, making them completely dead on arrival. 

Can you imagine, that after all this time, DE finally makes a Magnetic based Frame, but because you want "ImPaCt" They are only effective at just one singular faction and get dumpstered. 

If they implemented your stupid idea, all frames could only BE true damage buffer frames for them to actually DO anything to the enemies. 

 

You can call it having less impact. 

I call it

'Holy S#&$ we can actually expect new Frames to not just deal Slash/Heat to actually be effective in the larger overall game!'

[Rexis12]

Actually let's expand that. 

Wanna make a new Magnetic Based weapon? Nope, only effective to just one singular faction, and you can't even take it to Corpus Void Fissue missions because it'll spawn other units. 

Wanna make a new Magnetic Theme pet or mod or ability? Nope, you're effectively shutting that down in usefulness. 

Make your Tenet or Kuva weapon Magnetic Proginator? Toss that in the thrash because it's useless on literally every faction but just one.

New Rail jack weapons? Don't expect to see Magnetic anytime soon or else, the players will never use it and it'll be just another waste of resources and art. 

 

[Zext]

These sorts of arguments are very, very silly. You are saying the old system made sense because of cute flavor ideas behind the weaknesses, instead of thinking about how it actually asked you to combat the resistances and types. The answer, of course, was that you didn't, because you couldn't in the majority of cases. Different armor and shield types conflated into the same pile of mobs, with massive differences in effectiveness for each as a result of strange double dipping and endlessly scaling armor... it's no wonder everyone focused on ways of doing damage that were agnostic to these systems.

15 hours ago, Chewarette said:

What's the logic behind Torment being weak to Corpus weakness if he appears in Corpus' mission, and Grineer weakness if he appears in Grineer mission ? None. Why does a Corrupted Hyekka Master have different weaknesses than a normal Hyekka Master ? Did he go to the cloakrooms to change his stuff when he got corrupted ? Someone gave him a new uniform ?

I dunno where you got all this. The weaknesses and resistances are determined by the actual enemy. Stalker faction enemies do not have any weaknesses or resistances, and this is true regardless of what mission type they are in. Stuff like Narmer missions with Sentients have the matching vulnerabilities per type - narmers to narmer, sentients to sentient. Even void missions didn't seem to change the weaknesses, grineer kept their impact and corrosive vulnerabilities after being corrupted.

[FiveN9ne]

This topic is beating a dead horse already and it's the same arguments all over again. Resistances/weaknesses do not matter and they have not mattered since the previous status rework where they made viral op. Prior to that there were many differences and modding options but they only showed at old level 300 or so (which less than 1% players even faced - old level 400s is now level 9999 effectively). 

Enemies are now too weak and we have been power crept massively to notice any difference between what is used. Base Steel Path gets destroyed by anything, Star Chart is laughable. The only people who actually noticed any change are endurance runners because a level cap demolisher now has ~50mil hp instead of the previous ~8mil. 

99.9% of players will just enjoy using the boosted new statuses to add "variety" to their gameplay but in the end it all plays the same regardless and their effectiveness will not change depending on what type of build they bring.

[JargenBakt]

7 hours ago, FiveN9ne said:

This topic is beating a dead horse already and it's the same arguments all over again.

No, it's not. It's pointing out that the current dev team completely gutted one of the core gameplay systems, did not tell the community what they were going to do or let them in on it to ensure that the changes would be favorable, and as a result this oversimplified illogical nonsense happened. These changes were made, approved, then pushed to the playerbase all the while keeping them mostly in the dark about what was going to happen. All to one of the core gameplay systems that defines Warframe as a game. So not only did the current dev team make these changes, they decided that they would not follow the logic that is already inherent to the game and set by the previous dev team. This is one of the most egregious acts of development I've seen in all my time I've been playing and I've seen some pretty bad things. They just cannot go and up and change one of the core gameplay systems like this without community oversight, but they did and now we have this oversimplified mess that has absolutely no logic applied to it and it is complete chaos.

 

They need to revert everything they just did, go back to the old system, and rethink this whole mess. The old system was already falling apart due to the constant reworks to other systems, but it was far better than this nonsense. All the old system needed was for someone to do a logic pass, simplify a handful of things, and it would have been way better than what we got. It did not need to be completely changed and gutted.

[FiveN9ne]

4 hours ago, JargenBakt said:

No, it's not. It's pointing out that the current dev team completely gutted one of the core gameplay systems, did not tell the community what they were going to do or let them in on it to ensure that the changes would be favorable, and as a result this oversimplified illogical nonsense happened. These changes were made, approved, then pushed to the playerbase all the while keeping them mostly in the dark about what was going to happen. All to one of the core gameplay systems that defines Warframe as a game. So not only did the current dev team make these changes, they decided that they would not follow the logic that is already inherent to the game and set by the previous dev team. This is one of the most egregious acts of development I've seen in all my time I've been playing and I've seen some pretty bad things. They just cannot go and up and change one of the core gameplay systems like this without community oversight, but they did and now we have this oversimplified mess that has absolutely no logic applied to it and it is complete chaos.

 

They need to revert everything they just did, go back to the old system, and rethink this whole mess. The old system was already falling apart due to the constant reworks to other systems, but it was far better than this nonsense. All the old system needed was for someone to do a logic pass, simplify a handful of things, and it would have been way better than what we got. It did not need to be completely changed and gutted.

Yea, that's a no from me but i'm not gonna keep arguing because i saw in another thread some dude insisted that faction resistances/weaknesses brought so much diversity to the game and other nonsense and the thread kept going for like 15 pages back and forth. 

The logical conclusion for smart people to take away is that the resistances did absolutely nothing mathematically because we are too overpowered to matter. You could brute force your way regardless of elements or resistances. Pretending it was engaging outside of minmaxing eidolons and whatnot is pure fiction. 

I would be down for them to revert it to the old system, but not the previous one, before SP existed. When viral was a debuff that halved hp, gas was top notch, blast did knockdown, etc. That was the last time where element types and builds mattered and ONLY if you did endurance runs. For 99% of players it made zero difference, as it did before the current update as it does after it as well.

[Waeleto]

Wait do people actually thinks that more than 1% of warframe players care about lore ???

[JargenBakt]

20 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Wait do people actually thinks that more than 1% of warframe players care about lore ???

Less about the lore and more about what makes sense for enemies to be resistant or vulnerable to some damage types and not others even if it doesn't matter in most gameplay scenarios. The oversimplification has absolutely gutted everything and destroyed what made sense about the damage types and enemy resistances and vulnerabilities. The whole system was due for an overhaul, but not like this.

[Loza03]

Just to note: Blunt force trauma is also good at dealing with armour. There's a reason that american football gear is mostly padding, not hard plates and the brain floats in cerebrospinal fluid. To consider it another way, most car crashes are 'Impact damage', against a bludgeoning force, and those are plenty capable of killing the squishy humans inside in spite of a car being wayyyy thicker 'armour' than anything that someone can wear. As for puncture how do you know what space magic force fields are vulnerable to?

 

I'll be the first to admit the change hasn't done a lot - Viral is still the best because it works on everything. But Magnetic and Blast have some use now, and that's better than those elements have literally ever been.

[JargenBakt]

50 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

As for puncture how do you know what space magic force fields are vulnerable to?

Because the previous dev team established that logic and made it make sense in the grand scheme of its damage system.

 

But lets entertain that thought for a bit, right? Shields have always been a sci-fi concept. They are "kinetic barriers" made of energy capable of stopping all kinds of projectiles both physical and energy. If you really want to go down this logic hole, then all forms of physical damage wouldn't do much of anything to such a thing. In basically almost all forms of sci-fi, physical projectiles are vaporized by the kinetic barrier. Elemental damage such as cold or electricity could easily have devastating effects on such a system. Cold had affected shields prior to the oversimplification, but no longer does.

However, Warframe is a game, and in a game you have to make concessions about what does what. With the naming conventions that they use for their damage types, Puncture already serves the role as armor penetration even though it's never been set up for that. So that just leave Impact to affect Shields since Slash is logically going to damage health.

Elemental damage logic is tricky because that sort of thing is typically left up to the devs to determine and with how Warframe names its elemental damage it's no wonder why the status effects have changed quite a lot with each new iteration.

[Loza03]

10 hours ago, JargenBakt said:

Because the previous dev team established that logic and made it make sense in the grand scheme of its damage system.

 

But lets entertain that thought for a bit, right? Shields have always been a sci-fi concept. They are "kinetic barriers" made of energy capable of stopping all kinds of projectiles both physical and energy. If you really want to go down this logic hole, then all forms of physical damage wouldn't do much of anything to such a thing. In basically almost all forms of sci-fi, physical projectiles are vaporized by the kinetic barrier. Elemental damage such as cold or electricity could easily have devastating effects on such a system. Cold had affected shields prior to the oversimplification, but no longer does.

However, Warframe is a game, and in a game you have to make concessions about what does what. With the naming conventions that they use for their damage types, Puncture already serves the role as armor penetration even though it's never been set up for that. So that just leave Impact to affect Shields since Slash is logically going to damage health.

Elemental damage logic is tricky because that sort of thing is typically left up to the devs to determine and with how Warframe names its elemental damage it's no wonder why the status effects have changed quite a lot with each new iteration.

If it's entirely up to the dev team, then the dev team can change it. To illustrate, I'm going to bring up one of your older points:

On 2024-07-03 at 5:58 AM, JargenBakt said:

• Corpus weapons are predominately Puncture which is good for penetrating all kinds of armor.
• Grineer weapons are predominately Impact which is good for imparting as much kinetic damage on all kinds of shields.
• Tenno weapons are jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none weapons typically having a balanced IPS damage set for a wide variety of enemies.
• Sentient weapons are predominately elemental weapons which varies from case to case.

Whilst newer weapons for the factions are rare these days (generally focusing on either new Tenno weapons or new weapons distinct to each new syndicate or area), whilst the newer Grineer weapons do still skew towards impact, they also skew towards blast (trending towards being high-explosive weapons) which did... absolutely nothing special against shields or robotics.

New Corpus weapons, however, such as the Stropha, Xoris, Ambassador and all of the Tenet weapons... not one is skewed towards puncture damage. Most of the Tenet-only weapons are in fact skewed towards impact.

New Tenno weapons are usually skewed towards either puncture or slash, especially slash (and they always were skewed more towards bladed weapons. Y'know the whole 'masters of gun and blade' thing).

Sentient Weapons are pretty evenly split between being physical focused and elemental focused, with Nataruk and the two Wars being Physical, and Basmu and Shedu being elemental. I'm not counting the Corpus hybrid weapons for either faction here.

 

DE's internal logic for faction weapons has changed whenever they do introduce new stuff. It's less focused on the statistics of the weapons and more on the feel and aesthetics of the weapons. Grineer weapons are big, heavy, crude and explosive, usually dealing high damage but having poor ammo economy and reloads. Corpus weapons are visually overdesigned and overtly sci-fi (they have lightsabres now!) Tenno weapons resemble the Warframes they come out with, usually with a couple mechanics to match. Infested weapons deal Toxin and Gas damage and get ignored with the rest of the faction by DE. Sentient weapons have weird mechanics and infinite ammo. 

[JargenBakt]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

If it's entirely up to the dev team, then the dev team can change it.

Except the moment you start throwing out the most random of stuff everything breaks down. You can't do what they did and expect everything to be fine in the end. The game feels really off now due to these changes. The only way the imapct/puncture changes make sense if they plan on adding in synergies like Impact procs armor stripping with at max Cold Stacks because cold makes all things brittle or Puncture having a chance to cause slash procs akin to real-life projectiles that can fragment inside of soft-body targets and cause as much damage to a target as possible. It's still an oversimplified mess that is completely illogical because they removed far too much and moved things around without actually thinking about it.

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

DE's internal logic for faction weapons has changed whenever they do introduce new stuff. It's less focused on the statistics of the weapons and more on the feel and aesthetics of the weapons.

All that stuff was from the previous dev team. The thematic damage types per faction weapons was something that shouldn't have been gradually dropped. It's okay to deviate a bit, but it's gone so far that everything become "rule of cool" instead. Not that there's anything wrong with that except the game still has its themes and both of the dev teams really should have stuck with those themes and worked it into the gameplay in the process.

 

Warframe is feeling less like Warframe and a different game entirely with major changes like this. Changing one of the major core systems is fine, but there's a fine line between making some changes and completely gutting it like they're making a sequel to the game. This is the one of the core systems that makes Warframe what it is and to oversimplify it and make some really illogical changes like this really shouldn't have happened. Like I said, changes like this are typically reserved for sequels and not a game that is in constant active development that already has established themes for just about everything in the game.

[Rexis12]

15 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

This is the one of the core systems that makes Warframe what it is

An Overcomplicated mess that little to none of the playerbase actually interacted with to the point that the Element meant for the faction is used less than the Element that has a weakness to almost every other faction but was chosen specifically due to it's status procs and not at all relating to their weaknesses?

Is that what Warframe is?

[JargenBakt]

@Rexis12It was a mess, but it wasn't over complicated. And it goes to show that you didn't really engage in the system like some of us did. That's the whole point of playing a game. You have to learn its systems, themes, and logic even if it's just to a basic level. Particularly with Warframe since it's a game you play in the long term.

 

I ended up switching to Corrosive/Cold (plus magnetic/impact on tenet/kuva weapons) after the introduction of the Emerald Archon Shards for full corrosive armor stripping and after Hydroid got its rework allowing you to put Viral Tempest Barrage on to any frame. Not only did I not have to deal with the dodgy Merciless/Deadhead arcanes any more at higher levels, I had builds that took care of all the factions and not mess up my status distribution on my weapons. It still sort of works, but it's not nearly as effective now because all of the vulnerabilities towards health and shields are gone now.

 

This wasn't some dumb, over complicated system that you think it is. All it needed was a logic pass and some streamlining across factions.

[Rexis12]

2 minutes ago, JargenBakt said:

I ended up switching to Corrosive/Cold (plus magnetic/impact on tenet/kuva weapons) after the introduction of the Emerald Archon Shards for full corrosive armor stripping and after Hydroid got its rework allowing you to put Viral Tempest Barrage on to any frame.

So you're idea of engaging with the system is...

Using builds and items that flat out ignored the whole system entirely, by removing all Armour with the Archon Shards, thus removing the Ferrite, Alloy, and Infested Armour variable resistances, and then slapping on Viral Tempest that allowed you to deal unanimous 300% damage boost to all factions due to the lack of armour.

I don't think advertising you completely and utterly bypassing the resistances of each individual armor type to then just use Viral on every Warframe is the win for the old system that you think it is.