Infestation and some BOSS enemy got too much EHP from scaling rework

[bili_dzd]

In JADE SHADOWS UPDATE,the top of enemy armor is fixed as 2700,and their HP have incrased to compensate EHP - that's a simple fact.

But some enemy with no armor,or have a armor below 2700,these emey still got more HP.The reinforcement of the enemy is acceptable,but whats wrong is - YOU DE increase their EHP too much!

In some operation BoB alart mission of SP,I see many CRAZY Infestation Eximus take nearly 3-5 times dmg than before and still not die.Well,that's really a little reinforcement.**Laugh**

We are not done,if someone try to against demolisher of 9999lvl,well i mean,in these mission we need against some strong enemy,armor reduction is VERY-ABSLOTE necessary - and DE increase their HP to "balance" EHP.

I'm not saying that the changes in this version are bad, but for damage - the most basic thing in Warframe,please don't use the same algorithm to increase EHP for all enemies, as it lacks consideration.

[SneakyErvin]

They didnt increase it too much. They already said that Grineer and other heavily armored units would stay about the same in TTK, while the other factions would recieve both health and shield increases to make them more comparable to armored units. So they've succeeded in that while making Grineer and other armored units far more forgiving to non-stripping setups, and those that do not use viral.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Fair to say that a majority of the player base have never gone up against a level 9999 demolisher.

As long as we're burning down necromech demolishers in EDA quicky...it's kind of a non-issue.

[bili_dzd]

15分钟前 , (PSN)Magician_NG 说:

Fair to say that a majority of the player base have never gone up against a level 9999 demolisher.

As long as we're burning down necromech demolishers in EDA quicky...it's kind of a non-issue.

That's what i want to say,apply different EHP algorithm to normal enemy and "BOSS"enemy will significantly improve the reworked system.

Not much need to be changed - they can even allow "BOSS" enemies like the Demolisher to apply the EHP algorithm before rework,which can do good effect on almost all players.

[bili_dzd]

41分钟前 , SneakyErvin 说:

They didnt increase it too much. They already said that Grineer and other heavily armored units would stay about the same in TTK, while the other factions would recieve both health and shield increases to make them more comparable to armored units. So they've succeeded in that while making Grineer and other armored units far more forgiving to non-stripping setups, and those that do not use viral.

Because I found that killing a normal Infestation is slower than a Grineer with 2-3 layers of corrosive proc, which is really incredible,well,at least for me.

I don't know if Grineer is too weak now or Infestation's HP is much higher than expected:(

[trst]

If anything they didn't get enough of an increase. And we've been long overdue for Corpus and Infested to offer a threat beyond just utility units.

Also I don't see the issue with Demolishes. They're not supposed to be evaporated immediately and there's ways to slow them down if your damage is lacking. Plus if level cap ones are a pain then that's a good thing as level cap isn't something that should ever be trivial. 

 

31 minutes ago, bili_dzd said:

Because I found that killing a normal Infestation is slower than a Grineer with 2-3 layers of corrosive proc, which is really incredible,well,at least for me.

I don't know if Grineer is too weak now or Infestation's HP is much higher than expected:(

Which is how the system is supposed to work now. You took a setup made to fight Grineer and it trivialized them. Do the same thing vs Infested and you'll see the same results. Or just run the same meta viral builds as before and it'll be like nothing changed (which is also intended).

[Tiltskillet]

There may be some weird scaling with Demolishers, but I'm not finding other Infested too tough through basic SP.  Tougher, yes.  But they were paper targets before, and now they're more like thin particle board.  Besides that, if feels like gas doesn't work quite as well--but still works--and Blast works much better (not a surprise).

Anyway, relevant:

 

[bili_dzd]

28分钟前 , Tiltskillet 说:

There may be some weird scaling with Demolishers, but I'm not finding other Infested too tough through basic SP.  Tougher, yes.  But they were paper targets before, and now they're more like thin particle board.  Besides that, if feels like gas doesn't work quite as well--but still works--and Blast works much better (not a surprise).

2小时前 , SneakyErvin 说:

They didnt increase it too much. They already said that Grineer and other heavily armored units would stay about the same in TTK, while the other factions would recieve both health and shield increases to make them more comparable to armored units. So they've succeeded in that while making Grineer and other armored units far more forgiving to non-stripping setups, and those that do not use viral.

Hmmm, Infestation didn't make me feel difficult to kill, it's just that their vitality is much stronger and more TTK than before...and I'm a bit...I haven't adapted yet.

 

If DE want to eliminate Grineer's dominant position and leave Corpus and Infestation a place, I think this is also acceptable.

58分钟前 , trst 说:

Which is how the system is supposed to work now. You took a setup made to fight Grineer and it trivialized them. Do the same thing vs Infested and you'll see the same results. Or just run the same meta viral builds as before and it'll be like nothing changed (which is also intended).

That means we'd better to prepare a separate set of BDs for each faction in order to improve efficiency. Well, I admit that I'm usually too lazy to switch between them and don't have the space to store so many BDs  :(

Edited July 12 by bili_dzd

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

There may be some weird scaling with Demolishers, but I'm not finding other Infested too tough through basic SP.  Tougher, yes.  But they were paper targets before, and now they're more like thin particle board.  Besides that, if feels like gas doesn't work quite as well--but still works--and Blast works much better (not a surprise).

Anyway, relevant:

 

The only real issue I have with enemies at this point is the fact Corpus on Venus all get Supras for some reason, and the fact Ancient Disruptors still just take all of your energy. 

I would also love a grace period between consecutive knockdowns so I could feel like Primed Sure Footed wasn't just a default slot, but it's mostly just small stuff.

[GEN-Son_17]

11 hours ago, bili_dzd said:

In JADE SHADOWS UPDATE,the top of enemy armor is fixed as 2700,and their HP have incrased to compensate EHP - that's a simple fact.

But some enemy with no armor,or have a armor below 2700,these emey still got more HP.The reinforcement of the enemy is acceptable,but whats wrong is - YOU DE increase their EHP too much!

In some operation BoB alart mission of SP,I see many CRAZY Infestation Eximus take nearly 3-5 times dmg than before and still not die.Well,that's really a little reinforcement.**Laugh**

We are not done,if someone try to against demolisher of 9999lvl,well i mean,in these mission we need against some strong enemy,armor reduction is VERY-ABSLOTE necessary - and DE increase their HP to "balance" EHP.

I'm not saying that the changes in this version are bad, but for damage - the most basic thing in Warframe,please don't use the same algorithm to increase EHP for all enemies, as it lacks consideration.

Did you say level 9999? Dude, you SHOULD have to work harder than before to take them out now. I think we need to see more of this, not less.

[SneakyErvin]

There are good universal options now with the rework to armor/hp and damage bonuses/resistances.

On most of my weapons I currently run Gas+Cold on primary and Gas+Electric on secondary, with either pure Electric or Electric+Blast on melee. Viral slips in either due to the frame using nourish, or some skill like Miasma, or from a pet. On primaries with horrible crit but other benefits, like Phenmor, I instead run Blast+Toxin, since they cant benefit from cold crit damage, but due to the insane damage add on the final evolution and high status, they allow Blast+Toxin to scale well.

The new Elementalist mods have made it easy to move away from viral on weapons in order to dilute the status procs less. It's enough to get it from either a sentinel or dog with Manifold, or a Panzer. Which also likely leads to better options for weapon arcanes, ones that dont require kills to trigger, so are easier to get up and running on bosses. Also providing you with other stats than just more base damage, like critical damage and/or multishot.

If I know I'll face a status capped enemy (aside from acolytes) in a mission I tend to make sure to bring a melee I use blast on, since it provides some nice additional damage even if they only can recieve 4 procs. Gas still also works well since it doesnt scale based on the cap to begin with outside of the cloud size.

[Rexis12]

I mean if you are having issues dude to a Grineer build, then the rework did its job. 

Switch around your build to deal with them easier. I know I did with some of the other faction post change. 

 

And I'm glad that the Infested being massive Health Pools is still their main method of defense. 

Edited July 13 by Rexis12

[PublikDomain]

23 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

There may be some weird scaling with Demolishers, but I'm not finding other Infested too tough through basic SP.  Tougher, yes.  But they were paper targets before, and now they're more like thin particle board.  Besides that, if feels like gas doesn't work quite as well--but still works--and Blast works much better (not a surprise).

Anyway, relevant:

 

One thing I've noticed while updating my spreadsheets is that, at least according to the wiki, Eximus units have their own scaling curves. All Eximus units are basically treated like their own faction. So I wonder if some Eximus with particularly beefy base stats (like Infested HP) are getting a bigger proportional boost which is making them feel inconsistent.