Can we change Excalibur Umbra & Warrior's Rest?

[trst]

1 hour ago, Waeleto said:

I think you missed the fact that this is a place to give FEEDBACK

No it isn't, this is the General Discussion sub-forum. Feedback has it's own list of sub-forums.

[AubreyA_M998]

11 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Lore isn't as important as gameplay and should never be prioritized over it

Lore is literally a huge part of warframe. While it isn't prioritized, it is created side by side with it in order to create the gameplay we know and love. And people who want to ruin the lore aspect just because they don't like something thats bugged are just petty. If you wanted to help the game maybe try suggesting to them to fix the bug rather than change the whole identity of the warframe, even if it does take a while. I'm sure people would be more open to that suggestion.

You pointed out that this place is feedback? There you go. But as I said if it's something they won't change then womp womp get used to it and use another frame.

[Xaero]

3 hours ago, AubreyA_M998 said:

If you wanted to help the game maybe try suggesting to them to fix the bug rather than change the whole identity of the warframe, even if it does take a while.

Unfortunately, Pablo claimed on twitter they won't fix the bug because "it's too much work to fix every ability and buff on Umbra".

I've replied to that with a workaround suggestion based on the mechanics that were used in the game at some point but it was ignored (likely never even read).

So, considering the isuue will never be fixed, at least a toggle for Umbra sentience would've been nice. Yet all we got is a bandaid mod, the worst decision IMO.

For now I'll just hope that at some point they will add augment-exclusive slots.

[JCMS130988]

On 2024-07-20 at 12:50 AM, Atomic_Noodles said:

Change Excalibur Umbra to not have Sentience by default.

Warrior's Rest renamed to Warrior's Rage

Warrior's Rage grants Excalibur Umbra Sentience.

I don't like Umbra's sentience, but without his sentience Umbra is just Excalibur Prime by a different name, and DE can NEVER give us Excalibur Prime

[Xaero]

18 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

I don't like Umbra's sentience, but without his sentience Umbra is just Excalibur Prime by a different name, and DE can NEVER give us Excalibur Prime

Different name, different looks and a different 2nd ability. Is it not enough to separate him from Prime? Yet sentience somehow changes things?

[JCMS130988]

6 hours ago, Xaero said:

Different name, different looks and a different 2nd ability. Is it not enough to separate him from Prime? Yet sentience somehow changes things?

The looks is just a skin, the second ability is the same just with a different animation. Yes, sentience is the main (you could even say legally distinct) difference to Excalibur Prime. 🤷‍♂️

[SpicyDinosaur]

On 2024-08-02 at 2:09 PM, AubreyA_M998 said:

Not how warframes work. The reason Excalibur Umbra is unique is because lore wise EVERY other warframe loses their personalities and sentience when they became warframes, whereas Excalibur was kinda like a failed experiment due to extreme trauma (and something else, i cant remember) and therefore had managed to keep his sentience. (In layman's terms and from what I understand.

You don't know much about Warframe lore apparently. I bolded what I am referring to specifically, and I am not particularly a lore aficionado myself.

 

IIRC, even in the Sacrifice quest don't they reference the Gen 1 Rhino? Whatever the first Rhino was referred to if I am wrong about Gen 1 being the first ones, the one that apparently ate people?

 

Personally, I stopped caring about the story when they introduced "Eternalism." Not a fan of deus ex machina plot devices, just sloppy writing. Warframe writing would be better if they'd practice more "show don't tell" writers' techniques and not lean on such horrible tropes. Honestly feels like they try less and less every year. They better really really make these romance options for 1999 (as well as 1999 itself) compelling and engaging.

 

The issue is that when their writing isn't jilted and hackneyed, or chopped up into barely connectable pieces, they put most of it into codex entries and other obscure locations. Or they let major plotlines die with the events they were attached to. Other than if you actually look up the lines or scan the Kurias, at the point when the Twin Queens are introduced, do they make any sense as pre-existing characters at all? Like I knew who they were, but I'm not even sure if they show up many other places. Maybe somewhere on the scan of some grineer in the codex.

 

It's like Teshin. I knew who he was because of Conclave, but most of the people I talked to were utterly perplexed when he busted into the queens' room and acted like he knew you and you should know him.

 

Maybe some of the story has been secretly good all this time, DE just forgot to actually tell 90% of us about any of it.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, JCMS130988 said:

The looks is just a skin, the second ability is the same just with a different animation.

Not just a different animation, it also resets Sentient resistances.

Oh, and I also forgot Prime's death orb passive which Umbra lacks.

[JCMS130988]

20 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Not just a different animation, it also resets Sentient resistances.

Oh, and I also forgot Prime's death orb passive which Umbra lacks.

Those two are very niche, very specific interactions that I'm pretty sure most people don't even use or care about. I don't think that's enough of a difference to make a sentience-less Umbra "legally" distinct from Excalibur Prime.

[Xaero]

37 minutes ago, JCMS130988 said:

Those two are very niche, very specific interactions that I'm pretty sure most people don't even use or care about. I don't think that's enough of a difference to make a sentience-less Umbra "legally" distinct from Excalibur Prime.

Well then, what's the distinct difference between regular Excalibur and Excalibur Prime?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2024-07-20 at 2:02 AM, Atomic_Noodles said:

How would making it a toggle be a terrible one? DE literally added recently some other QOL that can be set as toggles for the player too. (Auto-Fire for Semi Firing Weapons, Customizable Enemy/Ally/Player Highlighting)

I'd like to know what you're doing with excal that makes this something you'd want.

I can't think of many scenarios where his sentience is an issue.

[Sojufueled]

Just build Excal, my man. The stats are practically the same and you don't have to forma over all the Umbral polarities.

[Xiothin]

On 2024-07-20 at 2:06 PM, Atomic_Noodles said:

I mean it could still make sense reversing the augment. We gave him therapy that he doesn't want to do stuff on his own and just chilling.

Augment just changing it to the point we wake him up to get angry enough to start acting on his own.

I think he's sentient because he wants to be, he is not ready to stop fighting, and is not ready to stop being sentient.

[Atomic_Noodles]

On 2024-08-05 at 12:49 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I'd like to know what you're doing with excal that makes this something you'd want.

I can't think of many scenarios where his sentience is an issue.

You go into operator and Exalted Blade and in my case Gloom gets dispelled. You have to recast them again when you hop out of operator.

Warrior's Rest stops channelled abilities from being cancelled when you hop out. Generally there are also more cases of better Exilus Mods especially in the case of Excalibur or Melee Frames.

Excalibur Umbra can still die while you are out in Operator form and he still consumes your ammo reserves. If he had 90% Damage Resistance while he was a Specter I'd tak

On 2024-08-05 at 1:11 PM, Sojufueled said:

Just build Excal, my man. The stats are practically the same and you don't have to forma over all the Umbral polarities.

Excalibur has less stats too. You need to fit in 3 Tauforged Archon Shards to match the base stats of Excalibur Prime/Umbra.

[Sojufueled]

30 minutes ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

Excalibur has less stats too. You need to fit in 3 Tauforged Archon Shards to match the base stats of Excalibur Prime/Umbra.

75 base energy and some sentient bonuses I can deal with losing. That's the difference. The tradeoff is I get to run Primed Sure Footed and archon mods without overwriting Umbra's special polarities on my Umbra (who is reserved for more specific purposes).

[Atomic_Noodles]

Umbra has 75 more Armor and Energy too. It's not just Energy.

Umbra and Prime have more armor as well. You can get the 500 energy to hut the Doubled Melee Crit on Umbra or Prime with Primed Flow. On Normal Excalibur you have to fit in the 2 TF Azure Shards to match Umbras Armor and Energy.

[Sojufueled]

9 hours ago, Atomic_Noodles said:

Umbra has 75 more Armor and Energy too. It's not just Energy.

Umbra and Prime have more armor as well. You can get the 500 energy to hut the Doubled Melee Crit on Umbra or Prime with Primed Flow. On Normal Excalibur you have to fit in the 2 TF Azure Shards to match Umbras Armor and Energy.

Supposed I never noticed because I don't build excal for armor.

[JCMS130988]

On 2024-08-04 at 1:17 PM, Xaero said:

Well then, what's the distinct difference between regular Excalibur and Excalibur Prime?

Why would anyone (who has him) use Excalibur Prime instead of regular Excalibur? The stats, obviously.

And if you think the stats don't matter then why does this thread even exist? why not just use regular Excal? It's all about the better stats

 

[Xaero]

2 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Why would anyone (who has him) use Excalibur Prime instead of regular Excalibur? The stats, obviously.

And if you think the stats don't matter then why does this thread even exist? why not just use regular Excal? It's all about the better stats

 

Ah, so DE won't get into trouble if they tweak stats on Umbra while removing sentience passive?

2 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Why would anyone (who has him) use Excalibur Prime instead of regular Excalibur? The stats, obviously.

By the way, did you know Excalibur Prime had the exact same stats as regular Excalibur up until June 2015? And up until 2018 the only difference was 25 more armor.

Why do you think people paid for Prime version?

Edited August 30 by Xaero

[JCMS130988]

40 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Ah, so DE won't get into trouble if they tweak stats on Umbra while removing sentience passive?

Exactly, if Umbra was clearly different from Excalibur Prime then him not having sentience wouldn't be a problem, is that so hard to understand?

 

42 minutes ago, Xaero said:

By the way, did you know Excalibur Prime had the exact same stats as regular Excalibur up until June 2015? And up until 2018 the only difference was 25 more armor.

Why do you think people paid for Prime version?

Seriously? It was the FOUNDER'S PROGRAM exclusive, they paid for STATUS, it was a badge of honor. Think of it like a pre-order bonus or a deluxe edition

[Xaero]

13 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Exactly, if Umbra was clearly different from Excalibur Prime then him not having sentience wouldn't be a problem, is that so hard to understand?

Is it so hard to understand sentience passive and different stats add nothing to the exclusivity topic? Not being called Excalibur Prime and not looking like Excalibur Prime is enough to not break the exclusivity rule. Take chinese founder frame - Excalibur Umbra Prime - as an example.

13 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Seriously? It was the FOUNDER'S PROGRAM exclusive, they paid for STATUS, it was a badge of honor. Think of it like a pre-order bonus or a deluxe edition

Yeah sure, but by your own reasoning, how did DE not get sued for having regular Excalibur in their game? Exact same stats, no sentience passive, the only difference being the name and the looks, but that's not enough for you, right?

[JCMS130988]

On 2024-08-31 at 5:40 AM, Xaero said:

Is it so hard to understand sentience passive and different stats add nothing to the exclusivity topic?

You're the one asking to remove the sentience BY DEFAULT and making his sentience just an augment. If they did that nobody would use the augment and Umbra would just be Excalibur Prime by a different name, just with a scarf. Let me give you an example: let's say I bought the Frost Heirloom skin (which like the Founder's Program was available only for a limited time) and you didn't, does that mean my Frost is a DIFFERENT WARFRAME from your Frost? Of course not, it's the same warframe just with an exclusive skin. That's what you're asking them to do with Umbra, turn it into Excalibur Prime with a skin and like I said, they can NEVER give us Excalibur Prime. Now if I had Frost Prime and you had regular Frost, then they'd be different warframes (regardless of the skins) BECAUSE of the STATS.

 

On 2024-08-31 at 5:40 AM, Xaero said:

Take chinese founder frame - Excalibur Umbra Prime - as an example.

This is a nonsensical comparison. Warframe China is a different build of the game, it might as well be a different game. For crying out loud it's even called Galactic Armor, when was the last time you referred to Warframe as "Galactic Armor". When was the last time you saw Excalibur Umbra Prime running around in any other non-China server? You might as well ask "what if they add Excalibur Prime to Soulframe?" Oh and by the way, as far as I know, Excalibur Umbra Prime still has sentience so he's legally distinct to Excalibur Prime.

 

On 2024-08-31 at 5:40 AM, Xaero said:

Yeah sure, but by your own reasoning, how did DE not get sued for having regular Excalibur in their game? Exact same stats, no sentience passive, the only difference being the name and the looks, but that's not enough for you, right?

You're just being stubborn now. Do you think all Primes should just be skins without any stat changes? Because if they remove Umbra's sentience Excalibur Prime would just be a skin without any stat change

Edited September 1 by JCMS130988

[OniDax]

I want to keep Umbra's sentience. I like having a free specter. I don't want to have to use an augment to get Umbra's sentience.

I do, however, support a toggle.

Sincerely,

A former Excal Prime main and current Excal Umbra main.

Edited September 2 by OniDax

[Xaero]

12 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Let me give you an example: let's say I bought the Frost Heirloom skin (which like the Founder's Program was available only for a limited time) and you didn't, does that mean my Frost is a DIFFERENT WARFRAME from your Frost?

It means you've bought an exclusive skin, and by exclusivity rules DE can't release another skin that looks like Frost Heirloom skin. What's the point of discussing Frost as a frame? Skin =/= Warframe, this example is irrelevant.

12 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

This is a nonsensical comparison. Warframe China is a different build of the game, it might as well be a different game. For crying out loud it's even called Galactic Armor, when was the last time you referred to Warframe as "Galactic Armor". When was the last time you saw Excalibur Umbra Prime running around in any other non-China server? You might as well ask "what if they add Excalibur Prime to Soulframe?"

Ok then, try explaining this:

The item was switched to Reaper Prime shortly after.

12 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

Oh and by the way, as far as I know, Excalibur Umbra Prime still has sentience so he's legally distinct to Excalibur Prime.

And you claim Excal Umbra Prime had Sentience upon release in 2015? 3-4 years prior to The Sacrifice?

12 hours ago, JCMS130988 said:

You're just being stubborn now. Do you think all Primes should just be skins without any stat changes? Because if they remove Umbra's sentience Excalibur Prime would just be a skin without any stat change

Should I remind you once more that Excalibur Prime was being sold as a separate Excalibur with different looks and name, nothing more? Stat changes were made years later to bring him in line with other Primes, and couple years later he was buffed to Umbra's stats level.

You could actually argue DE had no right to change any of Excal Prime's stats or abilities or looks (PBR treatment) but I doubt anyone in their right mind would want that.

[JCMS130988]

On 2024-09-02 at 1:50 AM, Xaero said:

Skin =/= Warframe

Exactly! And this is what you want Excalibur Prime to be: an exclusive skin of Excalibur Umbra. Like I said, you're just being stubborn now.

 

On 2024-09-02 at 1:50 AM, Xaero said:

Ok then, try explaining this:

I don't speak Mandarin (assuming that's Mandarin), I can however read REBECCA FORD saying FOUNDER'S GEAR are explicitly forbidden releases. I don't think you're making the point you believe to be making. This sounds more like supporting my point.

 

On 2024-09-02 at 1:50 AM, Xaero said:

Stat changes were made years later to bring him in line with other Primes

It doesn't really matter when they made the change, only that they MADE THAT CHANGE, i.e. they realized that in order to make it a DIFERENT WARFRAME he had to be MORE than just a skin. I can't believe this is so hard to understand for you