Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[4thBro]

10 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Still waiting... I guess I was right to say it's another empty threat. 

If I'm a big dog, then I guess you are one of those barking chihuahuas. Quite loud, but harmless. 

1) It's interesting that you view it as a threat. You realize how telling that is, right?

2) I already posted. Hello??? Is this thing on??? 🎙️

 

Granted, I missed A LOT of your posts that make the statement that we're talking about, but I still gave a bunch anyway.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 5 heures, 4thBro a dit :

1) It's interesting that you view it as a threat. You realize how telling that is, right?

2) I already posted. Hello??? Is this thing on??? 🎙️

 

Granted, I missed A LOT of your posts that make the statement that we're talking about, but I still gave a bunch anyway.

Nope, you never quoted anything saying I said "the game was perfect". Not once. Even thou you claim I said it and threaten to debunk me while insulting me in the process. Tis was another one of your lies, fallacies, and strawmaning. How surprising.

What about you answer any of our question instead ? What it the end game you play, with what gear, what build, what mecanics. We can't wait to hear from your "so easy" experience.

 

[4thBro]

10 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Nope, you never quoted anything saying I said "the game was perfect". Not once. Even thou you claim I said it and threaten to debunk me while insulting me in the process. Tis was another one of your lies, fallacies, and strawmaning. How surprising.

What about you answer any of our question instead ? What it the end game you play, with what gear, what build, what mecanics. We can't wait to hear from your "so easy" experience.

 

 

6 hours ago, 4thBro said:

You can post an essay, and then typo "the" as "teh," and they'll quote only that and be like, "SEE, YOU AREN'T SO RELIABLE AFTER ALL, ARE YOU?"

 

[Loza03]

10 hours ago, kuciol said:

Again the fact that something is possibile does not make it the intended way. It is clear what DEs intentions are.

 

You do realise how much this just demonstrates the argument that frame role is fluid right?

You present a definition for what a 'Caster' frame is. But when a frame that is inconvenient meets that definition, they don't qualify, justified via a statement that is at best undisprovable (a claim that cannot be proved or disproved not because it is sound, but because the information to do so is impossible to get) and flimsy, and at worst disproved simply by the fact that DE made it possible in the first place - thereby demonstrating their 'intent' to make it possible.

If you can't produce a definition that stands up to this sort of scrutiny, and disqualifies frames that match it, then your definition is bunk.

10 hours ago, kuciol said:

Yes DE gave that possibility and DE decided that some abilities should not kill in the endgame and be used to enchance weapon gameplay.

And some of those abilities don't bring up these problems. Others do.

A good example is Gloom, Vauban's 4 or the entirety of Limbo's unaugmented kit. Whilst you could make arguments for a bit of the latter apiece, these abilities and the theme and fantasy they're invoking doesn't fall into this problem. Gloom is... well gloom. It's a dark magic aura of miring shadows. Vauban's 4 is basically a net. And Limbo's kit, whilst highly esoteric, gets codified by the visual design of the Warframe - a stage magician. A person who doesn't have real power but manipulates the audience instead. He even produces literal 'magic circle'.

The difference is that some of these abilities do imply violence and damage output. Shooting lasers, fireballs, bolts of lightning, actual god damn spears.

10 hours ago, kuciol said:

I dont get why you have so hard time understanding that DE doesnt want what you have in mind. They would do so if they wanted to. You just keep repeating yourself like that would accomplish something. No matter what you feel about it or how you think abilities at endgame should be used its not for you to decide. It DEs choice to make and they made different one than you want.

Because this option suggests that DE is bad at making their game. Which isn't just rude, it's outright untrue.

I'll go into this in more detail in a bit.

10 hours ago, kuciol said:

Dont bother, it will still just be your opinion and expectations. 

That sounds like a challenge. I'm going in to work, but expect something not long after I get back!

 

 

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

As you say yourself, fact matters, and as you were just wrong about a whole post on Dante, that makes you a highly unreliable source too. So your opinion might not be reliable too.

I mean. I wasn't. I didn't want to go into the whole thing because it was late and it wasn't really the point. But calling in the only big part that's in question, 'Dante's abilities bypass armour' - Dante deals slash damage and slash procs. Those bypass armour.

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Also, you are the one trying really hard to put any and every frames into hard stuck roles, so we have to use a mostly generic vocabulary to explain why they are or aren't what you say. In wisp exemple, you argue she isn't a weapons plateform because she had breach surge. Guess what, it's a strong debuff=damage taken multiplier, and she can both be debuffers/weapons plateform, and even a decent buffer/tank in early/mid game. Those are not exclusive ; only in your mind. And Rhino doesn't need paragrims to be a tank. Loki and Octavia can distract enemies to negate a lot of damage, that doesn't make them tanks, even if the value of damage negated can exceed any tanking at any level. All frames have their own identity that hard to describe, even if -you- try so hard to put everyone in little boxes to try to make sense of it all.

 

Here's the thing. I'm not trying to put them into little boxes. I'm doing the opposite - I'm arguing that they don't. And to do so, I'm using those strict definitions to demonstrate why those strict definitions don't match the reality of the game.

Let's take the Rhino example here. You called out, and you called this out as explicitly as possible, that Dante having tons of Overguard doesn't make him a tank (and that his Paragrimms are more important for his personal tankiness). Rhino's only 'Tank' ability is to give himself a ton of Overguard. And yet here you're still calling him a Tank Warframe, because nobody in their right mind would not call Rhino a tank.

The dilemma is here - either Dante is a Tank Warframe, or Rhino isn't.  And...

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

All frames have their own identity that hard to describe, even if -you- try so hard to put everyone in little boxes to try to make sense of it all.

If you want to stick by this, that's fine. That's a win for me. Because now the big question of 'why do these abilities that communicate dealing damage not damage dealing powers' comes back into relief, because the only real counter-argument was that 'DE just don't want them to, because if they did they'd have put them on a Caster Frame.'

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Also, I don't see how styanax's 1 doesn't impale people. It just does.

Last time I checked most people who get impaled don't stand up again afterwards.

7 hours ago, dwqrf said:

And if you have a probleme with visual design and description, well, it's your perception that's mistaken. Just you. It's not that big of a deal. You set expectations to something which isn't true and are disapointed. You did that to yourself.

And last but not least - minimising. 'it's just you and your perceptions, its your own fault, stop questioning it'. You do realise this demonstrates you don't have an argument, right? You're not giving me or anyone reading this a reason why not - you're basically just asking me to stop.

But like I said, give me some time after works over.

[dwqrf]

il y a 42 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

Here's the thing. I'm not trying to put them into little boxes. I'm doing the opposite - I'm arguing that they don't. And to do so, I'm using those strict definitions to demonstrate why those strict definitions don't match the reality of the game.

But you are the one that made these definition and introduced them in the topic in the first place. While it can be used to communicate, none of those description are absolute.
 

il y a 42 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

If you want to stick by this, that's fine. That's a win for me. Because now the big question of 'why do these abilities that communicate dealing damage not damage dealing powers' comes back into relief, because the only real counter-argument was that 'DE just don't want them to, because if they did they'd have put them on a Caster Frame.'

If abilties had TAGS telling us "this is damage" or "this is utility" it would be a fair point, by they don't, do they ? They have a marketed destription, the rest is your interpretation. And you again include Caster Frame as a ultimate and absolute definition of a frame.
 

il y a 42 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

And last but not least - minimising. 'it's just you and your perceptions, its your own fault, stop questioning it'. You do realise this demonstrates you don't have an argument, right? You're not giving me or anyone reading this a reason why not - you're basically just asking me to stop.

I have an argument : you are failing to see the extent of the possibilites ; the big picture. You avoid context, and you only focus on one single part of everything, everytime. In fact, I'm actually actively asking you to question your own perception, and you fail to do so.

Edited September 2 by dwqrf

[dwqrf]

il y a une heure, 4thBro a dit :

You can post an essay, and then typo "the" as "teh," and they'll quote only that and be like, "SEE, YOU AREN'T SO RELIABLE AFTER ALL, ARE YOU?"

Il y a 18 heures, 4thBro a dit :

Wait - so - now you're back to saying that the game is perfect the way it is???

Are you really challenging me, to my face, to quote you saying that you think WF is perfect the way it is???

You think claiming that I said the game is PERFECT, while I said "I like the game the way it is", that's a typo ?
You keep claiming I'm afraid of change without any proof, while I just think the change you want to impose on the game is just truly bad, from experiences with exact similar games working the way Publik and Loza want to.
You are the one that can't even play the endgame. You are stuck MR16 "because I like multiples of 4". Guess what, MR32 is also a multiple of 4, so is LR4. Can you reach that level ? Meh, I don't think so, cause the game is already too hard for you, but you can't admit it. And so you try to jump on the band wagon of other experienced players to flatter your ego ; guess what, they don't even consider you their own.
You are drowning, and you keep avoiding any questions we ask you.
 

Il y a 1 heure, dwqrf a dit :

Nope, you never quoted anything saying I said "the game was perfect". Not once. Even thou you claim I said it and threaten to debunk me while insulting me in the process. Tis was another one of your lies, fallacies, and strawmaning. How surprising.

What about you answer any of our question instead ? What it the end game you play, with what gear, what build, what mecanics. We can't wait to hear from your "so easy" experience.

Check mate, lil' Ballas.

[Zimzala]

From a comedian whose name I do not recall and I was unable to find to attribute...

"This is like watching a teenager that smoked pot twice trying to explain the world to a teenager that smoked pot once."

I think the current popular term is 'cringe', but that could have already been superseded by something by now...

All because some people are unable to recognize when they have outgrown a game, have no control over said game, and can only howl at the moon over not being able to make everyone agree with their outlook over it.

Hilarious.

[4thBro]

15 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You think claiming that I said the game is PERFECT, while I said "I like the game the way it is", that's a typo ?

No - LMFAO - the typo is an EXAMPLE.

Do you understand the concept of non-literal things?

Do you understand the concept of SIMILAR things???

 

No, you never said the words "this game is perfect." IN FACT, you have said that it ISN'T perfect! Here, I'll give you that one, you can have it. Hold it close.

 

But you have REPEATEDLY stated that you are completely happy with the way the game is now. What kind of mentality even is that? EVERYONE here likes the game. But most LOGICAL people want GOOD things to IMPROVE. Do you understand this concept?

 

38 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

while I just think the change you want to impose on the game is just truly bad

How can you:

1) Think the changes that I want are bad,

2) and yet, also, keep asking me what my changes are, because I haven't answered that question yet?

 

YOU ARE SO DISINGENUOUS IT'S INSANE!!!!

You're the villain that still thinks he's the good guy, as he keeps going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole.

And I think, subconsciously, you know it. And that's why you're flailing around so violently, because you're trying to get it out of your own head.

 

41 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You are the one that can't even play the endgame. You are stuck MR16 "because I like multiples of 4".

Bro, using my legitimate OCD against me now? That's pretty low, EVEN for you, the villain.

I'm not "stuck" on MR16, I have a LOT of tests lined up. It just does not interest me in the slightest.

That's like if I was a Tetris player, and I said you're "stuck on level 1" because you have no interest in playing Tetris.

But this is too much energy spent on a random ad hominem, isn't it?

 

Absolute Looney Tunes in here.

 

Stop posting so disingenuously.

Stop it.

Stop it.

Stop it.

 

Stop it.

 

46 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

and you keep avoiding any questions we ask you.

You're not asking any questions!!

 

What questions??? "Can you handle the extreme hardcore difficulty of MR farming?" THAT question??? Is that something I was supposed to answer???

 

The TYPO question because you don't understand abstract concepts??? Was THAT the question???

 

I'm just Ctrl + F'ing the question mark character, dude, I can't figure out what actual question you've EVER asked me... honestly, in your entire life. Everything has been rhetorical flaming from you.

 

Go on. Gimme a question related to the topic.

Go on!

You have the floor!

 

Let's see what totally ----ing arbitrary string of words you select from this post to quote, before calling me Ballas and saying some line that you think is slick AF.

[4thBro]

6 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

From a comedian whose name I do not recall and I was unable to find to attribute...

"This is like watching a teenager that smoked pot twice trying to explain the world to a teenager that smoked pot once."

I think the current popular term is 'cringe', but that could have already been superseded by something by now...

All because some people are unable to recognize when they have outgrown a game, have no control over said game, and can only howl at the moon over not being able to make everyone agree with their outlook over it.

Hilarious.

It's nice to throw rocks from the shadows, isn't it?

[Zimzala]

7 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

It's nice to throw rocks from the shadows, isn't it?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What's nice is all this entertainment!

I mean really, we have not had entertainment like this since Felsagger left in a huff, because like you, they were unable to force other people to think about the game and it's minutiae in the way they deemed correct and having the 'community' agree.

Watching you spin out of control like a balloon losing air because you cannot get other random humans to agree with you is truly hilarious.

So yeah, I am having a blast!

People that get this bent over the minutiae in video games to the degree they lose it over other people not conforming to their POV is literally one of my favorite forms of schadenfreude to absorb as entertainment.

So please, do carry on!

[4thBro]

Just now, Zimzala said:

I mean really, we have not had entertainment like this since Felsagger left in a huff, because like you, they were unable to force other people to think about the game and it's minutiae in the way they deemed correct and having the 'community' agree.

Ok, so I'll talk to you like you're dwqrf, then, since you share the same weird mentality.

 

I want something added to WF so more people can be happy.

You want something withheld from WF so less people can be happy.

Explain to me how I'm the one that is "trying to force people to think the way I think."

Explain to me how a literal game suggestion is "trying to conform people to my POV."

 

 

 

 

No - take your time - I'll wait.

 

No!

I'll wait!

[Zimzala]

10 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I want something added to WF so more people can be happy.

You want something withheld from WF so less people can be happy.

Explain to me how I'm the one that is "trying to force people to think the way I think."

Explain to me how a literal game suggestion is "trying to conform people to my POV."

Great! You want things added! Good for you for having desires! I would love a real ignore function so I can never play with people like you, for example.

That does not mean anyone has any onus to add them and it does not mean anyone else has to agree or in any way 'prove' or 'convince' YOU of why they don't agree.

"You want something withheld from WF so less people can be happy." - I want no such thing, that is all in your head. I think DE adds plenty to WF all the time, they are inspired and add things with a regular pipeline. They add some things that I do not personally find fun, but others I do, pretty typical.

You are literally non-stop harping on others to state what you want them to state, to tell you what you demand to hear. That is basic methodology of trying to sway someone's thought process. Many posters here love to use that verbal/mental trick, it's sophomoric and easy to spot.

It's not WHAT you are conveying it's HOW. 

You approach this whole thing as if you are god's gift to the community and we should all lap up your missives as if they are golden opportunities no one on the planet has ever encountered, then you just yell and create a bunch of blank lines in posts as if that conveys some imaginary force.

So, IMO/IME, you are just another gamer who thinks because they play a game they know how to fix the world and berate the community for not agreeing with them, just another gamer jerk with whom I would never play a game.

Anything else?

Edited September 2 by Zimzala

[4thBro]

12 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Great! You want things added! Good for you for having desires! I would love a real ignore function so I can never play with people like you, for example.

Thanks. First line and couldn't help yourself but to add an insult.

This is a good sign of what's to come, I'm sure! Another hero in their own book, no doubt.

 

13 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

That does not mean anyone has any onus to add them and it does not mean anyone else has to agree or in any way 'prove' or 'convince' YOU of why they don't agree.

And that's okay. And I've said this a million times.

The community doesn't need to unanimously agree on something for it to be added. Tell me ONE single thing in Warframe, currently, that 100% of the players are glad is in the game.

(That's rhetorical. There's obviously nothing that 100% of everyone likes. So don't waste 5 paragraphs on some long-winded fallacy here.)

 

15 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

"You want something withheld from WF so less people can be happy." - I want no such thing, that is all in your head. I think DE adds plenty to WF all the time, they are inspired and add things with a regular pipeline. They add some things that I do not personally find fun, but others I do, pretty typical.

Sorry, but when people say "DE shouldn't add that," then it's not really in my head that people are saying DE shouldn't add that.

Lol.

Show me something that's in my head and I'll give you a point. Show me where I misrepresented anyone, and where something was "all in my head."

Show.

Stop arbitrarily saying.

Show.

 

The time of baseless claims is gone. You will be held accountable for such claims now.

 

18 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You are literally non-stop harping on others to state what you want them to state, to tell you what you demand to hear.

If by that you mean... I'm demanding that they answer questions that they're being asked, then... yyyyyyyyyyeah, sure.

"I'm demanding to hear that."

 

... But no, by all means, show me where I'm demanding something else.

 

19 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

It's not WHAT you are conveying it's HOW. 

No.

It's not.

 

No matter how it's framed, nobody is going to like hearing that their emotion-based essay is actually, indeed, emotion-fueled, and has little-to-no logical or factual content whatsoever.

No matter how it's framed, somebody that FELT a certain post was valid and correct is still never going to LIKE hearing that their post was, in fact, a slippery slope fallacy, or non-sequitur.

ESPECIALLY if they have no idea what that means.

Those types of posts - if done on accident, rather than intentionally fallacious - are driven by EMOTIONS, and EMOTIONS are... "always valid" in a certain sense. But that does NOT mean that they are always correct, or logical. But it is because of the emotion that makes people not want to hear that their whole tangent was just completely irrelevant.

There is no way to frame the delivery of that to where the recipient is okay with it.

And, at the very least, I certainly do not care enough to try to sit in a lab for a day and figure out how to perfectly hand-craft that delivery so that an illogical poster can stomach it better.

 

Here's a tip:

It's almost NEVER about the "how."

In place of any situation where you may think it's about the "how," it's almost always, in fact, more about a lot of background material going on that people may not even be consciously aware of. (In other words, projection.)

 

26 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You approach this whole thing as if you are god's gift to the community and we should all lap up your missives as if they are golden opportunities no one on the planet has ever encountered

Ah ha. And so, you see?

Projection.

 

The words that I say make you feel insecure, it seems. However, that is not something that has to do with me. I certainly never even remotely acted the way that you describe.

That is merely the way that you FEEL after I speak. And that is the textbook definition of projection.

 

It's pretty much exactly like...

"Two plus two equals four."

"OH, LOOK AT YOU, Mr. KNOW IT ALL. YOU THINK YOU'RE SO SMART?"

 

^ It's literally and exactly that.

 

30 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

So, IMO/IME, you are just another gamer who thinks because they play a game they know how to fix the world and berate the community for not agreeing with them, just another gamer jerk with whom I would never play a game.

Anything else?

 

... See what I mean?

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , Zimzala 说:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

What's nice is all this entertainment!

I mean really, we have not had entertainment like this since Felsagger left in a huff, because like you, they were unable to force other people to think about the game and it's minutiae in the way they deemed correct and having the 'community' agree.

Watching you spin out of control like a balloon losing air because you cannot get other random humans to agree with you is truly hilarious.

So yeah, I am having a blast!

People that get this bent over the minutiae in video games to the degree they lose it over other people not conforming to their POV is literally one of my favorite forms of schadenfreude to absorb as entertainment.

So please, do carry on!

What did I tell you guys?

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than the game itself.

[Zimzala]

6 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

What did I tell you guys?

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than the game itself.

Without a doubt!

36 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Show me something that's in my head and I'll give you a point. Show me where I misrepresented anyone, and where something was "all in my head."

I already did - your missive that I don't want DE to add something.

About the only thing I can think of would be forced teaming, which I don't think anyone really advocates.

And yes, how you communicate matters, I should know, I am an abrasive guy. Your antics are really hilarious.

There is nothing you have typed that in any way makes me feel 'lesser' or 'insecure', as you are just talking about minutiae in a video game, not anything that matters.

And yes, I am lobbing insults left and right, glad you are awake. You are literally the very reason gamers get a bad rap in society in my opinion.

Your goal yet again is to nit-pick each word and try to 'win', it's hilarious and sad.

There is no winner, you get that, right?

Totally agree you post with raw emotions and little to know logic or reason.

So, you will continue to post like a balloon losing it's air in a chaotic attempt to 'be right' or something, and I will continue to be entertained by your antics. I am really trying to find a reference to these extra blank lines in any other Internet posts, very curious as to what you think you are conveying with all tat blank space.

I know exactly who I am, I have been sparing with gamers like you, I'll wager, longer than you have been alive. 

You are just another in a long line of gamers that think just because they play a game, they can tell everyone else 'how it is'. It's hilarious.

So now, I am back from the store running errands and done with my morning coffee, need to put up some shelves and whatnot.

Have a great day!

Awesome how things work out, isn't it?

[dwqrf]

il y a 11 minutes, Zimzala a dit :

Have a great day!

I'm so glad people like you exist and manifest themselves every now and then. There is a still a bunch of words and expressions that you expressed which I'm not familiar with and I'm glad to learn and to get smarter with your input.
You restored my faith in humanity.
Wishing you the best, Tenno.

[4thBro]

17 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

And yes, I am lobbing insults left and right, glad you are awake. You are literally the very reason gamers get a bad rap in society in my opinion.

"Yes, I am insulting you constantly. Also, I think you're the problem!"

Love it.

Do I... respect the confidence??? Not sure what to do with it, but there it is.

 

17 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I already did - your missive that I don't want DE to add something.

About the only thing I can think of would be forced teaming, which I don't think anyone really advocates.

Okay, so you are in favor of an endgame, then?

Just say what you're trying to say. I don't want to sit here and decipher your cryptic magazine cutouts.

(Oop, there I go demanding things again, telling people to be upfront!)

 

17 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Your goal yet again is to nit-pick each word and try to 'win', it's hilarious and sad.

There is no winner, you get that, right?

I'm not nitpicking each word. You have a STRING of comments, and I'm quoting each one so that you know what I'm responding to.

 

But yes - I'm well aware that there's no winners here. If you look... literally 1 page back, you'll see me trying to get the others to stop feeding the fire.

 

17 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

You are just another in a long line of gamers that think just because they play a game, they can tell everyone else 'how it is'. It's hilarious.

Another weird... ... not even a projection. Not even an assumption.

I'm just going to call it an injection.

Where am I trying to tell people "how it is"? What, when I say that it's easy??? It IS easy. I mean, some things are hard, yeah. I think the hardest thing I've done in WF is trying to squeeze in as many Eidolon hunts you can into one night rotation. A lot of little things can go wrong.

But I didn't particularly have fun doing those. It was okay, but it wasn't ideal.

It also isn't even remotely required in order to get by in this game. It's literally maxing out a particular game mode. Which is actually my cup of tea, in a vacuum, but just not with Eidolons, nty.

 

... But anyway...

That injection is completely based off nothing.

Enjoy your day, Coffee Man.

 

 

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

I'm so glad people like you exist and manifest themselves every now and then. There is a still a bunch of words and expressions that you expressed which I'm not familiar with and I'm glad to learn and to get smarter with your input.
You restored my faith in humanity.
Wishing you the best, Tenno.

Meanwhile, this little weirdo still gets a raging ***** every time somebody talks to me, LMAO! He hasn't missed a quote or upvote yet.

Edited September 2 by 4thBro

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

And some of those abilities don't bring up these problems. Others do.

A good example is Gloom, Vauban's 4 or the entirety of Limbo's unaugmented kit. Whilst you could make arguments for a bit of the latter apiece, these abilities and the theme and fantasy they're invoking doesn't fall into this problem. Gloom is... well gloom. It's a dark magic aura of miring shadows. Vauban's 4 is basically a net. And Limbo's kit, whilst highly esoteric, gets codified by the visual design of the Warframe - a stage magician. A person who doesn't have real power but manipulates the audience instead. He even produces literal 'magic circle'.

The difference is that some of these abilities do imply violence and damage output. Shooting lasers, fireballs, bolts of lightning, actual god damn spears.

And all of those abilities listed are meant to enchance weapon gameplay expierience. 

 

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

You do realise how much this just demonstrates the argument that frame role is fluid right?

You present a definition for what a 'Caster' frame is. But when a frame that is inconvenient meets that definition, they don't qualify, justified via a statement that is at best undisprovable (a claim that cannot be proved or disproved not because it is sound, but because the information to do so is impossible to get) and flimsy, and at worst disproved simply by the fact that DE made it possible in the first place - thereby demonstrating their 'intent' to make it possible.

If you can't produce a definition that stands up to this sort of scrutiny, and disqualifies frames that match it, then your definition is bunk.

Ive never claimed that my definition is perfect. The point still stands doesnt matter how you want to twist it. Caliban is not meant to spam abilities to kill. 

 

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Because this option suggests that DE is bad at making their game. Which isn't just rude, it's outright untrue.

On the contrary, they know exactly what they want to accomplish. You just seem to not agree with their game design decision.

 

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

That sounds like a challenge. I'm going in to work, but expect something not long after I get back!

As i said, dont bother. I dont know what you are trying to accomplish here. DE's intentions are clear. Just because you dont agree with them doesnt make them bad.

[Rakosta_Kai]

49 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

What did I tell you guys?

Sometimes this forum is more entertaining than the game itself.

It's the functional equivalent of the dark room, the wise men, and the elephant.—With a side of someone arguing about whether that example was a parable, analogy, a metaphor, or a documentary of an actual event...

The primary reason my post count dropped over the years is because I've found that fastest way to "win" these discussions is to not "play" at all.—A statement I am fully certain no less than 4 Tenno in this thread would greedily pick apart in any number of ways. 

[PublikDomain]

16 hours ago, dwqrf said:

No, they wouldn't. Because a kuva/tenet/incarnon would do the same dps as a mk1.

There you go, blatantly lying again. How many times do I have to tell you that this isn't true and isn't what I've said?

16 hours ago, dwqrf said:

All-in potatoes and formas into starting weapons and never bother farming any upgrading ressources anymore.

I'm again not sure what this means. Like, grammatically. But if you're suggesting that people would invest into their favorite things and play with them instead of throwing them away to put into some endless hamster wheel of garbage, well, yeah, that's the point. 🤷‍♀️

16 hours ago, dwqrf said:

No, because all pieces of gear will be a waste of time and ressources as it would not make you gain any power, as they are all as bas as each others.

No, because people can't have fun knowing they play sub optimal gear. Either it's all the same, or there is huge variable, no in between. You can't even have fun playing paracyst now, even if you could.

No, because people won't be able to do mistakes as it's all the same.

No, because after stats squishing weapons and spells, you'll have to stats squishing every mods too, so everything is 'fun and balanced', no room for mistakes or choices, every mod will have the same flat value per slot.

No, because as every piece of gear will work in any context, pressing spells or clicking will have the same result, any spells or any weapons included, resulting in lack of failure even if your cat is running on the keyboard.

Also, to make every weapons similar dps-wise, they will all features a 12m aoe on impact. It's a horde shooter, 'member.

How is it a waste of time and resources if it is good?

Yes, you fool, that's why there shouldn't be sub optimal gear.

How will people suddenly be unable to make mistakes? 😂

Another blatant lie. I've said nothing about changing the mods themselves. You're lying again.

I'm not sure how "Soul Punch is good" suddenly makes you unable to fail a mission?

And yet another lie. I've never said that and don't think it's necessary at all.

Lies and hyperbole and fear all the way down. No proof, no evidence, no logic. No listening, no thinking, no being objective. You've got nothing. All you can do is flounder and lie and make things up. 🤷‍♀️

[dwqrf]

il y a 12 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

There you go, blatantly lying again. How many times do I have to tell you that this isn't true and isn't what I've said?

I'm again not sure what this means. Like, grammatically. But if you're suggesting that people would invest into their favorite things and play with them instead of throwing them away to put into some endless hamster wheel of garbage, well, yeah, that's the point. 🤷‍♀️

How is it a waste of time and resources if it is good?

Yes, you fool, that's why there shouldn't be sub optimal gear.

How will people suddenly be unable to make mistakes? 😂

Another blatant lie. I've said nothing about changing the mods themselves. You're lying again.

I'm not sure how "Soul Punch is good" suddenly makes you unable to fail a mission?

And yet another lie. I've never said that and don't think it's necessary at all.

Lies and hyperbole and fear all the way down. No proof, no evidence, no logic. No listening, no thinking, no being objective. You've got nothing. All you can do is flounder and lie and make things up. 🤷‍♀️

Riiight. I'm a liar.

So you want to stat-squish everything, without making them similar.
So there would still have disparities and discrepancies, and top gear will still be top gear and low gear will still be low gear.
So in your mind, people would play -any- gear just "because" and will not -only- play meta gear.
How do you prove that ? How can you suggest that people would choose to play bad gear even though they have access to better gear ? You don't even play Paracyst, even if could ; you are choosing -not- to ; but yet, you expect in your perfect system that everybody would. Somehow.

-So either you want to stat-squish to make everything similar, hence the posts I made to extrapolate your broken thought, which you disliked very much strangely.
-Or you don't ; then you don't even need to change anything in the game because everything is already working as intented with weapon tiers, obtention difficullty, crafting cost, MR required, and context of usage.

Make up your mind.

il y a 12 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Yes, you fool, that's why there shouldn't be sub optimal gear.

Explain your logic. You've got nothing ?

Edited September 2 by dwqrf

[dwqrf]

Il y a 6 heures, dwqrf a dit :

What about you answer any of our question instead ? What it the end game you play, with what gear, what build, what mecanics. We can't wait to hear from your "so easy" experience.

 

Il y a 3 heures, 4thBro a dit :

What questions??? [...] Is that something I was supposed to answer???

Still playing blind and deflecting.
 

 

Il y a 3 heures, 4thBro a dit :

Bro, using my legitimate OCD against me now? That's pretty low, EVEN for you, the villain.

If you had OCD you would have completed your Codex by now. Ho no, it's too hard !

[Loza03]

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

But you are the one that made these definition and introduced them in the topic in the first place. While it can be used to communicate, none of those description are absolute.
 

No I'm not. Kuciol was, way back on page 28, on the 24th of August.

On 2024-08-24 at 8:00 PM, kuciol said:

As for frames : what theme does it have? where is it on progression? Is it stealthy one? Weapon platform? Tank? Support? Caster? AoE nuker? Single target dps?

Certainly, I went around 10 pages back further, so whilst the phrase might have been given earlier, it's certainly the first time this was particularly relevant to the discussion.

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

If abilties had TAGS telling us "this is damage" or "this is utility" it would be a fair point, by they don't, do they ? They have a marketed destription, the rest is your interpretation. And you again include Caster Frame as a ultimate and absolute definition of a frame.

I agree, it's up to interpretation based on what those abilities do.

For example, Caliban, where 3/4 of his abilities are visibly used to launch attacks, such as firing three lasers that combine into an explosion.

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I have an argument : you are failing to see the extent of the possibilites ; the big picture. You avoid context, and you only focus on one single part of everything, everytime. In fact, I'm actually actively asking you to question your own perception, and you fail to do so.

Literally my whole point is that contextually it makes no sense for a wide variety of the game's abilities to not do meaningful damage.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Loza03 a dit :

Literally my whole point is that contextually it makes no sense for a wide variety of the game's abilities to not do meaningful damage.

Yes it does : In DE's actual philosophy, Frames shouldn't be used for damage but for utility and survival. You are going to heavily mod all your weapons for damage, why should you mod your warframe for moar damage ? You can't play it all at the same time, and you are not going to slot Vitality on your secondary weapon.
So your warframe both helps your weapons to do more damage by buffing/debuffing them/enemies, and helps you survive by buffing/debuffing you/enemies so you can do damage with your gear.

I understand it's not what you want, but that's how it is.

[MrInubis]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Literally my whole point is that contextually it makes no sense for a wide variety of the game's abilities to not do meaningful damage.

Except when you want them delegated to more supportive role in the late game.