Deep Archimedia needs to extend beyond the Sanctum

[Void2258]

There is not enough mission variety to be found on just the Sanctum tileset (only six possible missions, so 20 combinations; if we remove the boss, that's only 10). DA needs to expand to the entire star map to allow for (nearly; please no Defection or Armageddon) every mission type, to keep it fresh. Otherwise it will become rapidly boring, as even with proper randomness, statistics will lead to repetition due to the small number of available mission combinations. We have already seen a string of 3 weeks with the same 3 missions in different orders. The sanctum tileset lacks enough mission variety to support a mode like this. Either extend to the rest of the map (Necraloid needs external data for their experiments) or implement more mission types to the tileset (which could make Deimos too crowded if every type has to have a node on the map).

Edited September 10 by Void2258

[dwqrf]

il y a 20 minutes, Void2258 a dit :

Defection

Ho yiis. Defection with a new modifier : if you lose one single Kavor you lose the mission. I'd love it !

[vixenpixel]

34 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Ho yiis. Defection with a new modifier : if you lose one single Kavor you lose the mission. I'd love it !

No. 

 

 

They get stuck.

[WOLFtv]

good idea as it can be somewhat lagy hub,but do we need more missions that never gonna do again?

 

[NightmareT12]

I don't agree on EDA going beyond the Sanctum because of the way it fits into narrative and context, but however I'd like another endgame focused activity beyond EDA and Archon Hunts that takes advantage of other tilesets and mixed factions.

[Void2258]

23 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I don't agree on EDA going beyond the Sanctum because of the way it fits into narrative and context, but however I'd like another endgame focused activity beyond EDA and Archon Hunts that takes advantage of other tilesets and mixed factions.

As it stands, the game is being hamstrung by the story. In a video game, the story must be in service to the game, not the other way around. If EDA needs to go beyond the sanctum to be an interesting game mode because it needs to have more randomization options, then the story must adjust to accommodate it. Making another separate endgame content area splits the player base and development resources, making both an inferior experience.

[NightmareT12]

5 hours ago, Void2258 said:

As it stands, the game is being hamstrung by the story. In a video game, the story must be in service to the game, not the other way around. If EDA needs to go beyond the sanctum to be an interesting game mode because it needs to have more randomization options, then the story must adjust to accommodate it. Making another separate endgame content area splits the player base and development resources, making both an inferior experience.

I don't agree, I don't think it would make much sense for us to go do a, say, Mobile Defense in Sedna for some weird Murmur samples. That's why I say there should be more endgame activities, right now we have:

• Sorties (kind of)
• Archon Hunts
• Netracells
• Deep Archimidea
• Circuit on Steel Path

Almost all of them weekly, and except Netracells and Circuit all are basically playable once. So I don't think it would cause a huge issue. As for mission options, I don't think stuff like Capture or Sabotage would add much (especially for what's the challenging reasoning behind EDA), I feel there's a reason DE chose the current Sanctum nodes and I think they chose wisely, because most are pretty much the most enjoyed endless nodes.

They can probably add a few more like a variation of Void Cascade, Flood and Ascension fitted for the Sanctum story context without "much" issue (as in you can easily explain a Void Angel or Thrax presence there), but I guess with 1999 being the focus right now it will take a while.

[Geometries62]

3 минуты назад, NightmareT12 сказал:

They can probably add a few more like a variation of Void Cascade, Flood and Ascension fitted for the Sanctum story context without "much" issue (as in you can easily explain a Void Angel or Thrax presence there), but I guess with 1999 being the focus right now it will take a while.

Maybe with 1999, DE will add some late game mode with infested as enemy.

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, Geometries62 a dit :

Maybe with 1999, DE will add some late game mode with infested as enemy.

Infested Liches, Infested Railjack ;

And SP Railjack..?

 

[Geometries62]

2 минуты назад, dwqrf сказал:

Infested Liches, Infested Railjack ;

And SP Railjack..?

Infested SP Archon EDA Railjack Sortie Sanctuary onslaught.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, Geometries62 a dit :

Infested SP Archon EDA Railjack Sortie Sanctuary onslaught.

Don't be silly.

Infested Archon EDA Railjack Sortie Sanctuary Onslaught is already a form of SP

[Geometries62]

3 минуты назад, dwqrf сказал:

Infested Archon EDA Railjack Sortie Sanctuary Onslaught is already a form of SP

Then it will be double SP. With no revive. Something for true masochists.

On serious note, infested themed late game activity could use almost all tilesets from game if I'm not mistaken.

Edited Thursday at 07:31 PM by Geometries62

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, Geometries62 a dit :

Then it will be double SP. With no revive. Something for true masochists.

On serious note, infested themed late game activity could use almost all tilesets from game if I'm not mistaken.

I hope Infested Liches bring a great Infested Railjack. Truly ; and doing so, I hope they remake Eris infested Corpus ship, and Jordas ; but using assets from Jovian Concord and Corpus Railjack. Shiny new places and corridors to spray some blood. It would be lazy not to do so.

And why not Sp too.

[Geometries62]

2 минуты назад, dwqrf сказал:

I hope Infested Liches bring a great Infested Railjack. Truly ; and doing so, I hope they remake Eris infested Corpus ship, and Jordas ; but using assets from Jovian Concord and Corpus Railjack. Shiny new places and corridors to spray some blood. It would be lazy not to do so.

Yep, those tilesets need some rework. And maybe add new RJ missions without boarding enemy ship/space base part. Like extermination but in space.

[dwqrf]

il y a une heure, Geometries62 a dit :

Yep, those tilesets need some rework. And maybe add new RJ missions without boarding enemy ship/space base part. Like extermination but in space.

Staying on topic, we could maybe expect (hope for) some new gamemode from EDA going through the train and bringing us back in 1999 to find those new Infested ? Could work.

[vixenpixel]

9 hours ago, Void2258 said:

As it stands, the game is being hamstrung by the story. In a video game, the story must be in service to the game, not the other way around. If EDA needs to go beyond the sanctum to be an interesting game mode because it needs to have more randomization options, then the story must adjust to accommodate it. Making another separate endgame content area splits the player base and development resources, making both an inferior experience.

Well. They could just leave eda as is. Mission variety by procedural generated tile is still in effect. 

We just need more end game options.

[Binket_]

On 2024-09-10 at 12:28 PM, Void2258 said:

DA needs to expand to the entire star map to allow for (nearly; please no Defection or Armageddon) every mission type

... so what are we asking for?

• Interception/Void Cascade/Infested Salvage? Most of that is waiting around, no thanks.
• Capture/Rescue/Sabotage? Basically Exterminate if you take out 90% of the difficulty.
  • Maybe Capture could be interesting if it was a much bulkier or evasive target.
  • ... but I know for a FACT that people will just hate that because it requires them to think.
  • It would also be hard to differ Alchemy from Sabotage if you were to take a different route from the typical design.
• Void Flood? No. It lacks the exact requirements to make any modifiers in it actually dangerous.
  • Not without severely limiting the player in unfun and arbitrary ways.
  • I.E. removing jumps or something of a similar effect.
• Excavation? Infamous for being extremely squishy and without much of a fail condition.
  • Also just weird. Unless it's some kind of coagulant pump, it'd make no sense to be "digging" in there.

That leaves Defection and Armageddon, which as you implied are also not great picks.

Personally, I think it'd be interesting for- at rare times- the tileset to includes areas outside the Sanctum.
As a sort of "the Murmur are getting aggressive" kinda thing. Causing visual mimics of areas the players has visited before.
Bonus points if said areas are "imperfect" copies, having their own hazards.

But that's wishful thinking of the highest caliber. It's more likely we'll just a handful more modifiers at best.

On 2024-09-10 at 12:28 PM, Void2258 said:

Otherwise it will become rapidly boring, as even with proper randomness, statistics will lead to repetition due to the small number of available mission combinations. We have already seen a string of 3 weeks with the same 3 missions in different orders.

Unfortunately, I'd guess it's going to be the same situation as the Archon Hunts and Kahl.
The pattern is set and DE will refuse to go back and add to it because "Content Archipelago" needs more content islands.

It's more likely we'll see DE dumb it down because players are getting bored of it.
The opposite of what we want, but that's how they do. I hate it too.

[Duo_Strikes]

2 hours ago, Binket_ said:

 

• Interception/Void Cascade/Infested Salvage? Most of that is waiting around, no thanks.
• Capture/Rescue/Sabotage? Basically Exterminate if you take out 90% of the difficulty.
  • Maybe Capture could be interesting if it was a much bulkier or evasive target.
  • ... but I know for a FACT that people will just hate that because it requires them to think.
  • It would also be hard to differ Alchemy from Sabotage if you were to take a different route from the typical design.
• Void Flood? No. It lacks the exact requirements to make any modifiers in it actually dangerous.
  • Not without severely limiting the player in unfun and arbitrary ways.
  • I.E. removing jumps or something of a similar effect.
• Excavation? Infamous for being extremely squishy and without much of a fail condition.
  • Also just weird. Unless it's some kind of coagulant pump, it'd make no sense to be "digging" in there.

That leaves Defection and Armageddon, which as you implied are also not great picks.

you forgot mobile defence but that can pretty much be added to the first selection.

my take on it is... well, i don't know what would even work. the only idea i have is the murmur invade other nodes on the star chart for elite deep archimedias but at that point, it defeats the purpose of the deep archimedias, which is to collect data for loid, there isn't really data that he could use outside of the sanctum, if i had to choose, i'd just add more nodes to the sanctum, either new mission types or just ones that i think would work, i could see mobile defence and interception working but interception would likely require a full node be made for it, everything else doesn't really make sense to be in the sanctum.

[Binket_]

4 hours ago, Duo_Strikes said:

my take on it is... well, i don't know what would even work.

Yeah, pretty much.

• Can't add much for modifiers. What we have already is stretching it as is.
• Can't add much for level-design, a few tiles is neat but it doesn't get much mileage.
• Can't add much for Murmur specifically, not this early anyway.
• Can't add a "boss" like they did with the Circuit. That would disrupt the flow far too much, especially given the random gear.
  • Circuit only made it possible via Decrees.

DE has kinda dug themselves into a weird situation where due to their constant indulging of braindead-casuals, they can't make anything interesting.
EDA was already risking that indulgence of pace-eaters anyway, so adding more to it would only risk losing them.

It's unfortunate, so the most they can do would likely "aesthetic" things.
I don't like it, but to pretend I didn't see this coming would be the most unconvincing lie to exist.
^{So brazenly bad of a lie that it'd be less insulting to just stab a person outright.}

 

Oh well, I just hope DE realizes that one day-- maybe we don't have to keep throwing things into the "Content Archipelago" of a loose plot we have now.
Instead, maybe try throwing it in the Ludoplex as some non-canon mission? I dunno, something or another.
^{One can dream anyway, it's all we have left.}