G-Kast Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 A few dev streams ago Scott mentioned all Warframes getting looked at and buffed/nerfed. since then they only looked at Frost and Nova.... Ash's abilities are very weak and broken. Shuriken is broken at the moment. You can't spam it like before (When you try it will say power is in duration 2-3 seconds after you've casted it) Smoke Screen, in my opinion is fine as it is but definitely can be better. Stagger, Team buff, etc. Teleport: I personally never use this all that often and think its the most lack luster out of Ash's abilities. Bladestorm is way too damn slow, it looks cool, but is really slow. The damage it deals isn't even good and the enemies you target will probably be dead before you can kill them all ( Teammates shooting them ) My suggestion is to fix shurikens lag and Bladestorm can be a lot faster. ( I play a lot of Dota 2 and I realized one heroes ability acts a lot like Ash's ult. <<< That's how his ult should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemistjkt Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 *reads title only* yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Duelist- Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Ash only ever get's talked about in the forums. I have seen a lot about Ash fixes here but nothing is ever said or done by DE. Ash really needs to be touched on because there are still Ash players like myself wanting the true ninja expirience to work properly. Edited March 8, 2014 by DarkDuelist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Kast Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Ash only ever get's talked about in the forums. I have seen a lot about Ash fixes here but nothing is ever said or done by DE. Ash really needs to be touched on because there are still Ash players like myself wanting the true ninja expirience to work properly. ^ Couldn't have said it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxomfaux Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yup, ash is too ninja for his own good. To be fair ash has been touched up several times, but it's always been minor changes and not addressing the core issue with him which is lack of damage for an offensive frame and lack of mobility for a utility frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrikaethan Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 or he's on the backburner for an imminent stealth 1.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudyDev Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I will remember you Ash! No but seriously DE, do something. Ash is sad that your ignoring him... D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 IMO Teleport and Smokescreen are fine, I agree with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitroMidgets Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yes, as a matter of fact I did forget about Ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Ash is such a sneaky ninja that he goes unnoticed by even the devs. Show yourself! What if Blade Storm's damage and speed scaled off your melee weapon, like Hysteria? Slower, more powerful weapons deal larger chunks of damage with slower teleports while faster, weaker weapons would deal faster/more hits for less damage each time. Perhaps Berserker, elements, and other mods could somehow be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irfir Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) What is an ASH? Edited March 8, 2014 by Irfir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Well they are struggling on Frost atm so im keeping my Banshee post on bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Blade Storm is fine as-is, maybe needs a scaling mechanic for exceptionally tough enemies. Shuriken could use some updated visuals and a built-in bleed proc. Teleport needs to be easier to aim or have some utility aspect. Smokescreen should probably just have the same duration as Loki's, or at least a 2-second duration buff for build flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Smokescreen should probably just have the same duration as Loki's, or at least a 2-second duration buff for build flexibility. I disagree. If Smokescreen get's the same duration as Invisibility then Invisibility should get the same radial stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I disagree. If Smokescreen get's the same duration as Invisibility then Invisibility should get the same radial stun. Loki has a lot of things going for him already and a better cast animation for his skill. This isn't about Ash vs Loki, but how can we make Ash's skills effective and satisfying to use without overspecializing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) Loki has a lot of things going for him already and a better cast animation for his skill. This isn't about Ash vs Loki, but how can we make Ash's skills effective and satisfying to use without overspecializing. I wasn't making it a Ash vs. Loki thing, I was just comparing their two similar abilities that are (currently) fairly balanced. The only thing that differentiates the two abilities is Duration vs. Radial stun. If one ability gets both so should the other. As they are now, one could claim that they are equally useful. Changing it as you proposed would make one ability (invisibility) inferior. Edited March 8, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I would contend with the fact that Loki can cross a room instantly without requiring a target (by creating a decoy) with switch teleport, permanently cripple hosts of enemies with disarm, manipulate aggro with his decoy, and doesn't need power strength so he can forgo Blind Rage and Intensity in favor or duration mods. These are major perks that Ash doesn't have access to. Loki's Invisbility can be maximized without compromising his other skills while Ash has to lower the damage output on his abilities to do so, and is still arguably not as powerful as Loki even if he didn't have to compromise. Edited March 9, 2014 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrothBog Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 banshee and ash are clearly waiting on stealth updates to get a focus pass. there is no point putting time and effort into rebalancing them twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ash, Volt, Banshee, Oberon... and a bunch of useless abilities on the other frames that DE "forgot" about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 What is an ASH? A miserable little pile of secrets! (Wonder if anyone will catch that reference :D) Anyway, yeah, Ash seems to have been heavily neglected by DE. Here's some ideas for him which has gotten good critique: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/189034-azamagons-warframe-rebalancing-ash/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I would contend with the fact that Loki can cross a room instantly without requiring a target (by creating a decoy) with switch teleport, permanently cripple hosts of enemies with disarm, manipulate aggro with his decoy, and doesn't need power strength so he can forgo Blind Rage and Intensity in favor or duration mods. These are major perks that Ash doesn't have access to. Loki's Invisbility can be maximized without compromising his other skills while Ash has to lower the damage output on his abilities to do so, and is still arguably not as powerful as Loki even if he didn't have to compromise. 1. You just turned this into a Loki vs. Ash thing. I thought this wasn't about that. 2. Loki can't cross a room "without requiring a target". The fact that he has to place one first does not eliminate that requirement. Comparing two abilities to one is not a fair comparison and has been the bane of Switch teleport vs. teleport conversations since their creation. 3. You could ignore strength mods in favor of duration if you wanted. Don't act like it isn't an option. Just like Loki could ignore duration and go with strength mods (it would be incredibly stupid though). 4. That's incorrect. Maximizing Duration cripples radial disarm. Maximizing power strength cripples... what? Your spamability? http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Ash/t_30_12401120012_3-10-5-6-6-5-7-3-5-12-1-10-13-7-3-14-8-5-49-2-10-61-5-3-63-0-3_63-7-12-8-49-8-7-9-f-f-61-4-6-6-13-13-14-9-f-f-3-18_2/en/1-0-1 http://goo.gl/KAq0U7 That's a one forma build, from there you could build your Ash in a few different ways. You could slap on his other two abilities and call it a day. You could forma those slots and add health and shields. You could forma those slots and add range mods. etc. I've heard all of these arguments before, I don't need you to repeat them. Especially not when their rebuttals are littered across the forums. None of that had anything to do with the balance between Smokescreen and Invisibility. Edited March 9, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYABU5A Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) A miserable little pile of secrets! (Wonder if anyone will catch that reference :D) omg is that a castlevania reference ? http://miserablesecrets.ytmnd.com/ i just finished lords of shadows 2, i dont care what the reviews say it was epic ! and ash.. i just forma'd all this abilities out and use him as a derp frame, its pretty fun tbh make some crazy builds, he is my R&D frame Edited March 9, 2014 by HAYABU5A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methanoid Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephieee Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 There's a reason I never use Ash any more. His abilities just aren't as good compared to other frames and even in a group, he completely lacks utility. As I'm sure it's been pointed out before he's a stealth oriented frame and stealth in this game is currently lack luster and provides no added bonus. I'll be switching out Ash for Loki soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriviagene Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Nope,never forget my 2nd fav frame And about invis/SS Don't make it same,instead add movespeed buff on SS,so it'll come in par with invis,u can travel faster with lower duration = travel slower with longer duration...problem solved DE pls rework ash's skill :( I want to use him on high lvl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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