Why Founders Pack Exclusivity Is Hard To Defend

[Thirsty_Pickle]

Guarantee any Prime side arms that come out in the future are going to better than the Lato Prime.

 

In fact, all of the ones that exist already are.

 

I think the way they just added Akimbo Bronco Primes was lazy.

[Drivelikebrazil]

 

I did what I was supposed to, when I was supposed to. You did not. People like you love to create all of this artificial drama over the fact that YOU are the one with the failing. The reason is irrelevant. You had X amount of time to do something, you did not, it is no longer available. Whether you were broke, on the incorrect gaming platform, broke, not playing at the time, broke, didnt know about it, broke, whatever the reason is it doesnt matter.

 

Never seen so many entitled WHINERS in a game before. If you didnt do what you were supposed to do or if something was offered and made no longer available before you even started playing, how exactly have you been wronged? If I was a PS4 playa I would be Mastery Rank 15 just like I am right now, minus a Warframe, 2 weapons, and some other associated items. Id be ok with that, just like I am ok with not having Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal. Why? I DIDNT EARN THEM.

 

Yeah, you probably should read a little more into the thread before you mouth off like a buffoon. I'll restate it since you probably are too lazy to actually look back.

 

When you treat others like they somehow didn't try hard enough or could have done more on this issue, you're just being a jerk. Telling someone like a PS4 player who may not have a gaming PC and therefore had no reason to buy into the founders pack that they didn't try hard enough and you really did all the work and earned it is just plain idiocy. You bought something and have no reason to act superior. Buying != earning in the context you used it in.  

 

It should be OK for a game to feature exclusive items for people. I don't disagree that founders bought something and should receive what they purchased and no one else should get them, but it's poor design to make those things have gameplay value in a f2p game these days. If you can't comprehend why adding items that have some gameplay value (significance of that value is subjective and you have no place telling anyone how much they should value it) besides cosmetics leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, then there's no helping you. You're too trapped behind your own biases. Personally, I really don't care about the founder gear as I am not a collector or completion player and the gameplay value of the items is zero to me. I just hate people like you stomping around and being jerks to others.

[Ov3rd0se]

Excal Prime isnt even any different from regular Excal. I don't understand this insanity in the name of it. It's not worth it :/

[Phatose]

Were the non-founders calling for gameplay equivalent, non-prime varieties of the items in question, I could still believe that the gameplay concerns are relevant here.

 

But the thing is, I actually suggested in another thread that this could be dealt with by creating Derelict versions of the primes in question.  Shared mastery with the actual primes, but clearly aged and well, derelict.  Given that we've already got a derelict where it would make sense to have those things, it's hardly a lore stretch. 

 

And yet, it and other similar suggestions have been completely ignored by those protesting.

 

It's no longer possible for me to believe those concerns are what this is about.  Were this actually about gameplay affecting items, we'd be having a much different discussion, more along the lines of "How can we mitigate the gameplay effects of this while still maintaining exclusivity for the founders?".   But we're not.  We're having "Just release them already" over and over again.

[OniDax]

Were the non-founders calling for gameplay equivalent, non-prime varieties of the items in question, I could still believe that the gameplay concerns are relevant here.

 

But the thing is, I actually suggested in another thread that this could be dealt with by creating Derelict versions of the primes in question.  Shared mastery with the actual primes, but clearly aged and well, derelict.  Given that we've already got a derelict where it would make sense to have those things, it's hardly a lore stretch. 

 

And yet, it and other similar suggestions have been completely ignored by those protesting.

 

It's no longer possible for me to believe those concerns are what this is about.  Were this actually about gameplay affecting items, we'd be having a much different discussion, more along the lines of "How can we mitigate the gameplay effects of this while still maintaining exclusivity for the founders?".   But we're not.  We're having "Just release them already" over and over again.

 

I think Derelict versions would be pretty cool, and different yet similar. It's about getting something they missed because they're mad they didn't get the exclusives.

[Drivelikebrazil]

Were the non-founders calling for gameplay equivalent, non-prime varieties of the items in question, I could still believe that the gameplay concerns are relevant here.

 

But the thing is, I actually suggested in another thread that this could be dealt with by creating Derelict versions of the primes in question.  Shared mastery with the actual primes, but clearly aged and well, derelict.  Given that we've already got a derelict where it would make sense to have those things, it's hardly a lore stretch. 

 

And yet, it and other similar suggestions have been completely ignored by those protesting.

 

It's no longer possible for me to believe those concerns are what this is about.  Were this actually about gameplay affecting items, we'd be having a much different discussion, more along the lines of "How can we mitigate the gameplay effects of this while still maintaining exclusivity for the founders?".   But we're not.  We're having "Just release them already" over and over again.

 

Well, once they leave the realm of gameplay value, they're just being petty. Those people truly have no leg to stand on.

[Kartumterek]

Yeah, you probably should read a little more into the thread before you mouth off like a buffoon. I'll restate it since you probably are too lazy to actually look back.

 

When you treat others like they somehow didn't try hard enough or could have done more on this issue, you're just being a jerk. Telling someone like a PS4 player who may not have a gaming PC and therefore had no reason to buy into the founders pack that they didn't try hard enough and you really did all the work and earned it is just plain idiocy. You bought something and have no reason to act superior. Buying != earning in the context you used it in.  

 

It should be OK for a game to feature exclusive items for people. I don't disagree that founders bought something and should receive what they purchased and no one else should get them, but it's poor design to make those things have gameplay value in a f2p game these days. If you can't comprehend why adding items that have some gameplay value (significance of that value is subjective and you have no place telling anyone how much they should value it) besides cosmetics leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, then there's no helping you. You're too trapped behind your own biases. Personally, I really don't care about the founder gear as I am not a collector or completion player and the gameplay value of the items is zero to me. I just hate people like you stomping around and being jerks to others.

How exactly is me doing what I was supposed to get what I got and you didn't for whatever reason jerk behavior? I'm confused. Do you just not like the word NO? Is that it?

[(PSN)fingernageldreck]

This thread still makes me feel like

And the people in here behave still horrible, both sides. The one that have the exclusive stuff and the one that want it. DE should go to your accounts and scrap every prime item for all of you(only for the persons that keep flamming, not every post was bad in this thread but 9of10 pretty much would deserve such a treatment from DE)

[Yezzik]

And yet, it and other similar suggestions have been completely ignored by those protesting

Hmm. Could you provide links, please? All I've seen when I've made similar suggestions have been founders saying "or we could keep what we paid for."

[PoorCensored]

Excal Prime isnt even any different from regular Excal. I don't understand this insanity in the name of it. It's not worth it :/

This has been explained multiple times in this thread.

People have been indicating that DE wants Primes to be significantly better than there non-Prime counterparts. Excalibur Prime presents a challenge. If Excalibur Prime is buffed and remains exclusive, you're shafting non-Founder Excalibur players. If you buff him and release him again to the community, you shaft the Founders. If you don't re-release him and you don't buff him, you shaft Founders and Excalibur players. Founders paid to get an inferior Prime and Excalibur players get to feel even more marginalized by their choice in frame. If you buff the base Excalibur frame to Prime level, your shafting everyone who plays any other frame.

Edited March 19, 2014 by PoorCensored

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Can't miss out on something that was never available for PSN Members. And Excalibur prime is different looks matter do they not?

[Yezzik]

This has been explained multiple times in this thread.

People have been indicating that DE wants Primes to be significantly better than there non-Prime counterparts. Excalibur Prime presents a challenge.

Solution:

Rename Excal Prime something else and give him the pimpest skin that ever did pimp.

Release Excal Prime with the original skin into the Void. Give both the Prime and the Pimp versions the same stats.

Founders keep their exclusive item/skin/whatever, Excal fans get to stay competitive in the Prime war, and other than Mastery, nobody has a stat advantage.

[Aggh]

I think ill inject my two cents into here.

 

 

I dont see what "risk" founders took. Kickstarter supporters? Yes i can see that, kickstarter programs are always a risk. People who paid for a excalibur prime access packs afterwards? Nope not really. 

 

Once you start "funding" a game that is already playable. You are no longer supporting a "risk" especially when it is being developed by a parent company who has been around for a while. 

 

So all this talk about "oh, well you didnt take a risk" is total bs. A founder is not a founder once a game has been established.

 

However the argument of "exclusive is exclusive" is only valid as long as people are begging for free stuff. Iff they did re-release the pack, exclusive would remain as it is exclusive to those who bought the pack. wow. there is some logic.. If people want to pay $250 for the packs, you guys shouldnt have a issue with that. You are not losing anything, they didnt devalue it, nothing has changed. Except maybe the inability to flash your toys to every n00b. (darn..)

 

 

So PS4 missed it by a week and that makes you some superior being. What makes it worse is that even though the PS4 was released, they were in such short supply that many people couldnt even get their hands on it. 

You clearly didn't play the game in early beta.  It was an entirely different game.  Even DE never expected warframe to be as successful as it has been and they certainly didn't expect to have the opportunity to expand the game like they have.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Aggh

[Quimey]

This has been explained multiple times in this thread.

People have been indicating that DE wants Primes to be significantly better than there non-Prime counterparts. Excalibur Prime presents a challenge. If Excalibur Prime is buffed and remains exclusive, you're shafting non-Founder Excalibur players. If you buff him and release him again to the community, you shaft the Founders. If you don't re-release him and you don't buff him, you shaft Founders and Excalibur players. Founders paid to get an inferior Prime and Excalibur players get to feel even more marginalized by their choice in frame. If you buff the base Excalibur frame to Prime level, your shafting everyone who plays any other frame.

well i dont know how they can make it but, i hope they find a way

[Seox]

This has been explained multiple times in this thread.

People have been indicating that DE wants Primes to be significantly better than there non-Prime counterparts

 

Where did you hear this? DE most definitely DOES NOT want primes to be "significantly better than their non-prime counterparts." They've mentioned in past livestreams that they're trying to balance making them better with not obsoleting the original frames to avoid power creep.

[PoorCensored]

Solution:

Rename Excal Prime something else and give him the pimpest skin that ever did pimp.

Release Excal Prime with the original skin into the Void. Give both the Prime and the Pimp versions the same stats.

Founders keep their exclusive item/skin/whatever, Excal fans get to stay competitive in the Prime war, and other than Mastery, nobody has a stat advantage.

And you'll still upset a set of the Founders who want to keep exclusive access to what was offered in the pack: Excalibur *Prime*. Also, some people will say by doing that work around, DE is being deceptive and not keeping their word.

well i dont know how they can make it but, i hope they find a way

I don't know that DE can. All there options appear bad.

[PoorCensored]

Where did you hear this? DE most definitely DOES NOT want primes to be "significantly better than their non-prime counterparts." They've mentioned in past livestreams that they're trying to balance making them better with not obsoleting the original frames to avoid power creep.

Significantly is relative, but it has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. The first I think I recall anyone mentioning it at all was here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192697-what-a-prime-should-be/?p=2284268

[OniDax]

Solution:

Rename Excal Prime something else and give him the pimpest skin that ever did pimp.

Release Excal Prime with the original skin into the Void. Give both the Prime and the Pimp versions the same stats.

Founders keep their exclusive item/skin/whatever, Excal fans get to stay competitive in the Prime war, and other than Mastery, nobody has a stat advantage.

 

No, that's not a solution. They can give you an Excal-Prime-named-something-else with the-pimpest-skin-that-ever-did-pimp and they can let the Founders keep their Excalibur Prime which they paid for. There is NO solution that involves taking Excalibur Prime, or his skin, or the weapons, away from Founders. Like I've said, I'm completely down for you guys getting a Derelict version (and even doing derelict versions of the newer frames). I think it'd look cool, different, while being unique. Of course, they couldn't make it only available to non-Founders (as there's nothing Founders did wrong to be kept from getting a frame), but at least it'd be an Excal Prime-sort of- that non-Founders could get. That's the only way I'm down for Excal Prime being released, if it's something different and new. Derelict version is different and new.

[Tsukinoki]

@AntoineFlemming

Yet that will never fix anything.

People will still yell and complain that they cant get the same excal prime that founders have.

Name it whatever you want, make it skin as epic as you want and this argument will always come back to "But I want what they have!" no matter what options are presented to them.

Its like a petulent child that sees another one given a Twix or something. They whinge and complain and are finally given say a butterfingers because there were no more Twix. They aren't happy because they didn't get the Twix. They dont care that they were given soemthing else, just that they weren't given exactly what the other had. And they'll even whinge and complain when they dont really want it...they just want it because the other person has it and they are told they cant.

They could release a full set of derelict skins but people will always look back at Excal Prime and whinge and complain that they cant get him, even if they have another frame that is exactly the same besides name and looks (which is what is happening now).

The only decent solution is DE sticking to their word in both letter and spirit. And just ignoring the whingers.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)Shadow_Of_Hunhow]

I think it's sad that so many Founders are being so rude about this, and the only reason they don't want anyone else to have what they do is because they like waving their shiny thing that they bought like it's an award. All you did was have money at the right time, it's not like you grinded for the frame and weapons, and I think that at the very least PS4 players should get a week to have a chance to get it since we were completely screwed over by the deadline for it. Also, DE wouldn't be breaking their word, because there was a founders pack for PC, never a PS4 founders pack.

Honestly I just want Excaliber Prime, Excaliber is my favorite frame, no matter what frame I try, I always come back to him, and just because I didn't have a PC that could play Warframe, doesn't mean I should be permanently denied an item that stopped being sold before I could have any access to it.

[Katakuna]

and the only reason they don't want anyone else to have what they do is because they like waving their shiny thing that they bought like it's an award. 

 

Well, and the legalities behind it.  And the betrayal factor.

 

Both of which are valid.  Which is why DE answered that their "feet are over the fire" in the relevant live stream.

[(PSN)octus]

i love all of you, and hope you have a good day.

[OniDax]

I think it's sad that so many Founders are being so rude about this, and the only reason they don't want anyone else to have what they do is because they like waving their shiny thing that they bought like it's an award. All you did was have money at the right time, it's not like you grinded for the frame and weapons, and I think that at the very least PS4 players should get a week to have a chance to get it since we were completely screwed over by the deadline for it. Also, DE wouldn't be breaking their word, because there was a founders pack for PC, never a PS4 founders pack.

Honestly I just want Excaliber Prime, Excaliber is my favorite frame, no matter what frame I try, I always come back to him, and just because I didn't have a PC that could play Warframe, doesn't mean I should be permanently denied an item that stopped being sold before I could have any access to it.

 

Yes, it does. You missed it. That's what limited time offers are. Limited. Happens EVERYWHERE. Get used to it.

 

 

No, Founders like DE sticking to their word that these items would be exclusive. Not to mention you just like crying because you can't get the "shiny" item. You only care about the frame itself, whereas many Founders bought the pack to support DE, including myself. Should PS4 players get a chance at the items? Maybe, although you motivations are off since you're only concerned with getting the items, not with actually supporting DE.

[2ply]

So, if I go into a pizza shop today and ask what last weeks specials were...then demand I get those specials instead of today's specials..simply because I didn't inform myself of the deal?

Perhaps I should proceed to sue the pizza place for not calling me on my phone, mailing me priority letters and have an employee friend me on Facebook to keep me up to date on what is going on in the world?

Your logic is broken. The founders package was overextended for a super long time, warframe has made the front page on steam many times and has been talked about since like 2011 or long before.

Don't try to blame your ignorance on the rest of the world, sometimes it pays to inform yourself, we are living in the age of instant gratification in all things and of those things information is paramount.

Sorry to say, but you're barking up a tree that died months ago.

#slashdash4life

[NevanChambers]

I think it's sad that so many Founders are being so rude about this, and the only reason they don't want anyone else to have what they do is because they like waving their shiny thing that they bought like it's an award. All you did was have money at the right time, it's not like you grinded for the frame and weapons, and I think that at the very least PS4 players should get a week to have a chance to get it since we were completely screwed over by the deadline for it. Also, DE wouldn't be breaking their word, because there was a founders pack for PC, never a PS4 founders pack.

Honestly I just want Excaliber Prime, Excaliber is my favorite frame, no matter what frame I try, I always come back to him, and just because I didn't have a PC that could play Warframe, doesn't mean I should be permanently denied an item that stopped being sold before I could have any access to it.

I would like to point out that many from your camp are equally rude and vicious. I feel for your situation I do but one group or the other is going to get slighted. There is no way around it at this point.

They were rewards though, they were thank you gifts for showing support for something that could have totally failed.Their exclusivity will only grow more important as time passes. They are badges of honor that say "I was here from the early days and I believed in warframe" Maybe it wasn't the best way to go about it but we have to deal with the reality of the situation.

Truth be told "I want it" is no better an arguement than "I want it to be exclusive" regardless of the motivation for the arguements. The only thing that gives either group a leg to stand on is that DE made the founders a promise. I would not care if anyone else got the founders gear were it not for that, but it is far more important to me and if you thought about it I bet to you that DE remain honest and trustworthy.