Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Pbrandon1]

why not just give the Player control over the Magic Pistols?

 

reduced Movement speed, but giving you complete control over the Magic Pistols. aim and shoot at anything you want. also have infinite Magazine(no Reloading) so that you can fire like a stereotypical western movie, firing your Pistols like a madman until your targets are down.

:)

It's just that then ,the ability isn't really different from regular combat by using weapons.

 

Your just doing regular combat with a debuff.

 

People would just be pretty bored if they just activated an ability to pull out pistols for energy when they could just use their primary to mow everything down.

 

Not a bad idea but just not something many people would be on board if they were just performing regular combat again.

[taiiat]

Not a bad idea but just not something many people would be on board if they were just performing regular combat again.

and people won't be bored when they press a button and watch a Cutscene of their Tenno playing the game for them?

:/

[ProfessorZero]

This issue with the jam guns mechanic is that its range is not equal to the range you typically get shot at. This means you have to get close, not very gunslingery. Also, Mesa is not a "sniper" type gun frame. Theres no reason for everyone to think that she should be as squishy as a Nova, Nyx or Nekros. And for the "its just a turbulence rip off". What is rhino charge if not a slash dash ripoff? soul punch a fireball ripoff? tailwind a super jump and slash dash ripoff? The differences here is that all of these skills are slightly different in utility and how damage is dealt. Turbulence actively prevents things from hitting you, you can still get hit by a bombardier with shatter shield. If you want to say the damage reduc should only go to 60%, thats another issue. and considering that anyone who wants to reliably use peacemaker is slapping on max effic mods and transient fortitude means that at best you are only getting 20 seconds out of the skill. If you aren't building for max effic it costs 75 energy. Thats not an insignificant amount considering her pool without mods is 150. Honestly Mesa is one of the most balanced frames from the gate that we've had for a long time. Now id like to see peacemaker account for (at least crit damage/chance) your weapon in some way, but its fine where it is.

Also to the "move with peacemaker folks". Go to earth, let a drahk master take your weapon (equip only one). activate then deactivate peacemaker and you can see how it is with full movement and no energy cost. for the whole map if you want to. Its boring. so boring. I actually like the ability so much better when it forces you to stay still. Makes you really plan and try and get the max amount of utility out of the ability. Plus, its rediculous for Defense now anyways.

[RealPandemonium]

that would be a step forwards, but it wouldn't actually address the problem of it being an Ability you should be casting nearly constantly due to it affecting Oxygen Drops and Mods.

Be thankful you have it.  DE isn't going to fix the drop tables any time soon, if ever.

[taiiat]

Be thankful you have it.

but i'm not naive. 

i realize that by it's existence, Desecrate lowers 'droprates'.

[RealPandemonium]

but i'm not naive. 

i realize that by it's existence, Desecrate lowers 'droprates'.

No, droprates are low to pad the time it takes to grind (artificially lengthening gameplay by making it more time-consuming) and to provide a greater incentive for players to buy Platinum(that they could use to buy the mods from other players or through platinum store packages; also to alleviate the time spent on the game through rushing, buying potatos, etc.)

Edited December 4, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[BETAOPTICS]

I was disappointed ( lightly ) when I heard about Mesa and instantly had an ability in my mind that I have been wishing to exist and the last two Frames thematically could have been able to have it. My idea, and I think this works better for Mesa would be to have an ability ( probably replace 1st ) Whereby Mesa takes out one or both Peacemakers. In this 1 second animation, she takes out a pistol or both, aims them and after that 1 second delay, shoots a heavy damaging pullet in straight line, which would then be able to pierce multiple enemies in the track of that bullet. I think that this sort of charge to shoot in line multiple enemies would fit Mesa, and certainly when you actually think about it, we have no abilities like that, only weapons that have similar function.

But it always struck me how she or when I first time hear of Limbos supposed theme, I wondered what would be a better time to utilize such skill than now. And while Mesa does have her version of charging up damage to shoot ultimate bullet, the ability itself feels boring in my opinion, more boring than what I hoped for her to have at least. Sure, the mechanic is unique, I can not deny that but what fun is it to have such an ability in the background when you barely notice it and when you do end up using it, it only affects one or few at best and you can even screw it up. Not that screwing up your aim is the issue, but the long charge up time and the very brief effect time really penalizes that, for better or worse.

Now, someone could say that is that really all that different from abilities such that of Excalibur, Rhino or Zephyr for that matter. Well yes and no. Indeed it could be argued that as a concept this would be identical other than the fact that instead of moving forward, you shoot from the stationary place you stay in. But even then I think that it would be different enough to warrant a pass. And include the particle magics you could do to it to make it look like a powerful ability, it could feel a lot more different from the rest of the in-line abilities the game already has.

[taiiat]

-snip-

Ballistic Battery could work like that, without replacing the Ability.

keep the charge up from other shots, just give that one shot Punch-Through, and perhaps an Explosion at the end of the projectiles' trail.

 

Mesa using a Regulator for that shot would also indeed make more sense (since an entire frames' gimmick only being used for one Ability is a huge waste). once you 'retoggle' the Ability, Mesa would switch to one Regulator, and you'd have one Ammo, so one shot.

[Jhura]

I haven't had any experience with Mesa yet so I cannot offer feedback on her but I do have a couple of comments about Nekros.

I enjoy playing Nekros and think that his concept was very unique, with that considered, I feel that he was a loss in potential. Soul Punch's linear projectile feels off most of the time but I think that could be remedied by changing it to a conical effect behind the first enemy hit. That way the ability rewards players for picking which enemy to target while not overly punishing players for knee-jerk casts.

The second issue I have is that most of the time I am not going to be able to play around with my other abilities because I should be spamming Desecrate. Meta effects on abilities that warp established mechanics are bad form, I am not saying that the loot reroll is not useful, what I am saying is that it creates a bandaid to either poor mechanis or poor drop rates and adds nothing to Nekros. This has rendered him a farm frame due to the fact he can bend the rules. It would be better to remove this meta warping effect in favor of something that enhances his game play; for example, Desecrate breaks down corpses turning them into HP orbs and deals radial viral damage around Nekros for each body consumed this way. With this change Nekros can still benifit the team with some health while also providing a unique ability that awards the Nekros player for casting the ability in certain situations.

Again, I really do like Nekros, I just hate that he is only seen as a farm bot right now and would love to see that meta effect on Desecrate go and in turn have Nekros' skills be more synergistic and in line with his pitched theme.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Jhura

[HyokaChan]

I find it hilarious that, as long as this thread has gone on for, there have only been two outcomes (broberon and nyx) to show for it.

 

Then again, the fact that there is an outcome at all is kind of an incredible achievement.

[Archwizard]

Be thankful you have it.

 

Why should we be thankful for something that most players never asked for (it was near unanimous that Search the Dead be reconsidered), that damages the game in the long-term to continue existing?

[Azamagon]

Added Mesa to the OP.

 

In addition, I had a breakthrough last night for Nekros. I'd been considering revisiting the original design of Nekros that we had been told about (and by that I do include Rebecca and Megan's combined confusion over the removal of Life Drain) as inspiration for what to do about Soul Punch. It finally hit me that there was a way to fit the theme of the ability (weaponized exorcism) without necessarily needing to remove it: just flip the effect around. Instead of forcing the soul out of the body as an attack, force the body away from the soul to attack the enemy where it's vulnerable.

Provided that the ability not be so annoying to cast (covered under General, I suppose), there is no problem with it being a potent single-target ability - just look at Mind Control; the problem was always that it lacked potency against the initial target, and tried to make up for it by claiming to be an Area-Effect (which it did an even worse job of).

The change in the OP also provides some hidden advantages, such as synergy with Punch Through weapons or other Area-Effect attacks, including a potentially double-proccing Soul Feast (renamed to Siphon Life because it sounded too... soul-y with Soul Punch still in the kit). I would have reduced the target to 0 shields and armor (because it would make sense), but I'm certain that would be pushing just a little too hard.

+

" - Soul Punch no longer fires a secondary projectile. Instead, it separates the target’s soul from its body; when the target is ragdolled, they temporarily leave their soul (an attackable, stationary after-image with linked health and reduced shields/armor) behind. Defense reduction is affected by Power Strength, soul uptime is affected by Power Duration. "

 

Now that is a nice, new and unique change, not bad at all!

BUT, it's still a single target spell. That's STILL gonna be very limitted, so it needs to have something else too it, preferably something AoE-ish.

You say it's fair to have strong single target abilities, if they are just strong enough, such as Mind Control. But you're missing one thing here: Mind Control is not only a single target ability, it is ALSO an "indirect" AoE ability, as it can distract lots of enemies at once. That's why I consider Mind Control to be the ONLY viable single target ability in the game. Not even Limbo's Banish is good enough imo.

 

The way to make single target abilities useful, if they remain directly affecting only one target at a time, is to give either give them direct AoE or pseudo AoE. Mind Control already has pseudo AoE, as I explained. Now what can be done for, say, Banish and Soul Punch? Direct AoE already exists a plenty (Fireball, Freeze, Smite), so let's give them more pseudo-AoE:

 

Banish - Whenever a target has Banish cast upon them, any enemy already in the Rift (be it by Banish or Cataclysm) suffer some damage and get some kind of brief CC on them (stun? pause? you choose). Banish remains an ability targetted at single targets, but it gets AoE damage in a unique way. It also synergizes greatly with Cataclysm (and itself).

 

Soul Punch - The soul "projectile" that currently exists is not launched in a straight line, nor does it vanish upon hitting the environment. Instead the soul flies around in the environment, constantly seeking (in a homing fashion) nearby enemies (think of it "haunting" enemies), repeatedly dealing damage to nearby enemies and staggering them or something like that. That causes it to be very potent against single targets (lots of damage to it, ragdolling and constant staggering), but it also has crowd potential with its random attacks. The soul's duration is ofc moddable with power duration, and spamming it would stack, but only one soul can be extracted at a time per unit.

 

Of course, it could also be combined with your suggestion: The target has its "soul" exposed, which suffers more damage taken and has nice synergy with AoE and Punchthrough etc (hmm, that's quite the voodoo feel to it btw, fitting the necromancy theme more than one thinks!). If the target dies in any way, then the soul no longer remains stationary, but instead it becomes the above described "haunting" projectile for the remainder of the soul duration (think of it as Nekros taking charge over it once the target dies). Now THAT would be unique + gives it both high single target potency AND some decent AoE addition!

Edited December 4, 2014 by Azamagon

[Noble_Cactus]

Be thankful you have it.  DE isn't going to fix the drop tables any time soon, if ever.

 

To be honest, the amount of times that I've been "successful" with Desecrate (getting a rare mod or rare resource to drop) isn't significant enough to make me mad if they remove the ability. Sure it gets me an extra Argon or two, or it makes an extra Crushing Ruin appear, but it's not like I'm rolling in loot either by the end of the mission (it's mostly just common resources anyway). The fact that Desecrate isn't even reliable, and instead merely presents the possibility of alleviating drop rate woes, is cause for concern.

 

You can't even get many of the most coveted items to drop through Desecrate. This includes assassin weapons (Stalker/G3/Zanuka; you can Desecrate the G3 but they won't drop any additional Brakk parts) and Prime parts. So really he's just there for mods and resources.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[RealPandemonium]

Desecrate's basic role is to make HP/energy/ammo drop, and it does that.  The possibility for mods/life support just gives Nekros more frills in certain gameplay tasks.  The real issue is 1)Nekros' abilities need polish and 2) the concept of a support-y frame whose affect on the battlefield is indirect is unpopular with most players, leading to an outcry of "REMAKE THIS" and people playing a frame that they don't like because they want his fringe benefits.

 

Here's my Nekros changes proposal

 

 

Nekros just needs some tweaks to make his skills functional.  I would do it like this:

 

1 - Make the secondary damage (projectile and projectile explosion) affected by power strength. Make it castable with left hand (while reloading, firing, etc.) Add Viral or Slash proc chance to help Nekros kill heavy units in preparation for casting 4.

 

2 - Allow it to be recastable (more energy = more cc, same as bastille,) add a slow.

 

3 - Speed up the animation, maybe bump range up to 30m or more.  Make it castable with one hand as well, so it doesn't interrupt gameplay.

 

4 - Improve shadow AI (bosses and Tenno specters are a precedent for this, though I am aware that AI is a $#*(@ to code in any case) and increase their level by 30% to make them stronger than their competition.  Also allow them to spawn as Eximus.

 

 

These changes would make all of his moves fulfill their purpose while not drastically altering their design or incorporating unprecedented features. 

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[taiiat]

-snip-

i can't disagree that Soul Punch could use a little more purpose, but i'm just going to say that i like Soul Punch because it Ragdolls S%*^.

that ragdolling is really satisfying. so as long as Soul Punch doesn't lose that if it gets tweaked, i'm open to just about anything.

[ProfessorZero]

I was disappointed ( lightly ) when I heard about Mesa and instantly had an ability in my mind that I have been wishing to exist and the last two Frames thematically could have been able to have it. My idea, and I think this works better for Mesa would be to have an ability ( probably replace 1st ) Whereby Mesa takes out one or both Peacemakers. In this 1 second animation, she takes out a pistol or both, aims them and after that 1 second delay, shoots a heavy damaging pullet in straight line, which would then be able to pierce multiple enemies in the track of that bullet. I think that this sort of charge to shoot in line multiple enemies would fit Mesa, and certainly when you actually think about it, we have no abilities like that, only weapons that have similar function.

 This issue here is, that "rail gun" type of abilities have had little/no success here. Part of it is that mobs find cover pretty quickly, and scatter. Even when they are initially walking towards  you down a hall, they are not all in just one line. If warframe had more mobs that dealth less damage, maybe it would be good. The only reason punch thru guns work is because you are literally firing hundreds of rounds over the course of the game, and you are not activating hundreds of skills over the course of a game.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

Normally I would agree with that - but with the writeup in the OP, if you wanted an AoE attack to throw out, you would have Siphon Life. Besides, it's not the necromancer's place to kill for himself, just to make foes easier for his minions and allies to kill. 

 

The idea is that you can tap Soul Punch to amplify the effects of status effects (MP^2 = Damage*4), procs (Viral^2 = Health/4), cleave, Punch Through and other area-effect attacks against a priority foe - which means if your buddy turns around and hits Crush, he can deal more than double damage to the target (or if someone else hits Mind Control or Chaos*, you can watch the target commit seppuku). The fact that it indirectly reduces the target's DR (stacking with Corrosive and Magnetic!) is a huge bonus.

Mind Control's effectiveness isn't in the fact that it turns an enemy into your AoE; you have Chaos to make a crowd of human turrets for you. Its effectiveness is in the fact that you take something away from enemies by marking priority targets, and making those targets more vulnerable to your allies. It's effective because it scales to enemy level to remain equally as powerful.

 

No, Soul Punch wouldn't be a splashing attack like Fireball, but it would already be loads more effective as level increases due to the damage increase. I'd say instead of dealing a secondary projectile it should raise the enemy if you kill them while it's active, but that would already be way too much for the benefit it would provide for only 25 energy. (Maybe Finisher damage, at most.)

 

* The best part in my opinion, is that you'd be able to use the words "Chaos" and "Nekros" in the same sentence without phrasing it "Nekros' ult is just a crappier version of Chaos".

Edited December 5, 2014 by Archwizard

[Elydir]

Desecrate's basic role is to make HP/energy/ammo drop, and it does that.

 

I dont think the reason why the preferred Viver comp had both a Trin and a Nekros was bc he has a 60% of 25 health per corpse.

Same with T4 Def and Surv runs.

[Zoracraft]

I could definitely see warframe being better with these changes

+1

I could definitely see warframe being better with these changes

+1

[Azamagon]

1) Normally I would agree with that - but with the writeup in the OP, if you wanted an AoE attack to throw out, you would have Siphon Life. Besides, it's not the necromancer's place to kill for himself, just to make foes easier for his minions and allies to kill. 

 

2) The idea is that you can tap Soul Punch to amplify the effects of status effects (MP^2 = Damage*4), procs (Viral^2 = Health/4), cleave, Punch Through and other area-effect attacks against a priority foe - which means if your buddy turns around and hits Crush, he can deal more than double damage to the target (or if someone else hits Mind Control or Chaos*, you can watch the target commit seppuku). The fact that it indirectly reduces the target's DR (stacking with Corrosive and Magnetic!) is a huge bonus.

Mind Control's effectiveness isn't in the fact that it turns an enemy into your AoE; you have Chaos to make a crowd of human turrets for you. Its effectiveness is in the fact that you take something away from enemies by marking priority targets, and making those targets more vulnerable to your allies. It's effective because it scales to enemy level to remain equally as powerful.

 

3) No, Soul Punch wouldn't be a splashing attack like Fireball, but it would already be loads more effective as level increases due to the damage increase. I'd say instead of dealing a secondary projectile it should raise the enemy if you kill them while it's active, but that would already be way too much for the benefit it would provide for only 25 energy. (Maybe Finisher damage, at most.)

 

* The best part in my opinion, is that you'd be able to use the words "Chaos" and "Nekros" in the same sentence without phrasing it "Nekros' ult is just a crappier version of Chaos".

1) Well, yes, Siphon Life would be better for general AoE damage (with utility in form of healing). Soul Punch, on the other hand, if made into the combined version of ours (first the target is highly vulnerable with the exposed soul, secondly, if it dies, the soul becomes a haunting constantly attacking and slowing/staggering/whatever crowd control.), would be better in terms of AoE crowd control.

 

2) Yes, but it's STILL only gonna affect one target through and through. Mind Control, as I tried to explain, has an indirect aoe-effect, due to also acting as a decoy against SEVERAL other enemies. Yes, its strength is mainly that you COMPLETELY negate an enemy, scales well etc etc. But my point is: Even with all it other strenghts, even being a single target ability, it does something against several enemies at once (one target is "out", several others will shoot at it). That's what I mean by pseudo-aoe.

If Soul Punch only had your "exposed soul" idea, it wouldn't have any aoe-effect whatsoever (no effect on OTHER enemies, only the main target), it would only affect one target at a time. THAT's what I'm trying to fix by adding my ideas on to it as well. I really like the exposed soul idea, but it's simply not enough to make it worthwhile for general gameplay (on high levels, yes, but almost useless on low levels if it only affects ONE target).

 

3) Considering how powerful Mind Control is, I definitely don't think it (on top of the exposed soul thing) would be overpowered if it also raised its corpse if it dies during the exposure. If you think it is overpowered, then you must say that MC is too...

Soul Punch, if it had exposure first, then revival after death, would be kind of the opposite of MC: MC gets a minion instantly, and you can deal with it and its threat after (or even meanwhile!). With Soul Punch you have to deal with the threat FIRST, then get a minion after.

 

4) What's your opinion of my Banish idea? :P

 

i can't disagree that Soul Punch could use a little more purpose, but i'm just going to say that i like Soul Punch because it Ragdolls S%*^.

that ragdolling is really satisfying. so as long as Soul Punch doesn't lose that if it gets tweaked, i'm open to just about anything.

That certainly doesn't need to be removed! :)

This is how I imagine Soul Punch, more thoroughly:

 

1) Soul Punch a target, exposing its soul, creating a stationary soul "statue" at its position (where the target was when you cast it. You punch away the body from the "soul"! ;) ) + ragdoll the actual target with some heavy damage to boot. This "soul" would have the traits as Archwizard said: It shares health/shields etc with the target, and is more susceptible to damage than the main target. Awesome punchthrough/aoe/etc-synergies, but this would not be enough yet to make it truly worthwhile for general gameplay (Remember, it has to be useful on high level AND low level content!) Thus...

 

2) If the target dies while its soul is still exposed, the soul now comes into control of Nekros, doing one of these 2 things:

 

Option 1) The soul stops being stationary and instead starts floating around, attacking enemies by flying into them (think: it becomes a homing projectile that phases through walls). An enemy touched by the soul is dealt some damage and suffers some minor CC (stun/stagger/slowed, whatever really). The soul can keep attacking the same target over and over, but attacks enemies at random as it floats around. This lifetime-duration is equal to the remainder of the duration that was left from the "soul exposition"that was done on the Soul Punch target + an additional flat amount. That rewards you for killing the target quickly (with a longer lasting haunting soul), with which the initial soul exposure will help you do more easily too! :)

 

Option 2) The soul instantly becomes a shadow minion. Duration for the shadow minion could either be independant of the soul exposition time (just has a flat timer) or, similar to option 1, could last longer if you kill the soul-exposed target faster.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Azamagon

[Noble_Cactus]

Desecrate's basic role is to make HP/energy/ammo drop, and it does that. The possibility for mods/life support just gives Nekros more frills in certain gameplay tasks. The real issue is 1)Nekros' abilities need polish and 2) the concept of a support-y frame whose affect on the battlefield is indirect is unpopular with most players, leading to an outcry of "REMAKE THIS" and people playing a frame that they don't like because they want his fringe benefits.

Here's my Nekros changes proposal

So first you say that we should be thankful for Desecrate because it softens the RNG, then you say its true purpose is to make enemies drop health/energy/ammo (two of which drop frequently as it is)? I'll let that contradiction speak for itself.

The thing is, many players feel that there is a better way to execute the health regen aspect of Desecrate, and that often takes the form of the original Life Drain (which the health orbs seem to be a compromise for). Having a Nekros on my team to make oceans of red balls is certainly welcome, but if I wanted a healer I'd pick Trinity or Oberon every time. This isn't helped by the fact that health orbs restore very little hp per orb.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Archwizard]

1) Soul Punch would be better in terms of AoE crowd control.

 

Which should be Terrify's function. The fact that he has so many 'supplemental' crowd controls is why Terrify has so many drawbacks. The point of Terrify's rework in the OP it to concentrate that niche into one skill, to buff up his other skills.

 

2) If Soul Punch only had your "exposed soul" idea, it wouldn't have any aoe-effect whatsoever (no effect on OTHER enemies, only the main target), it would only affect one target at a time. 

 

A necromancer shouldn't be a blaster-type character swimming in AoE damage effects. The point of Soul Punch in the OP is to cripple priority targets - like with now, but without the lie that it's an AoE. If the fact that it only affects one target per cast is enough of a problem in practice, I'll reconsider the effect.

 

3) Considering how powerful Mind Control is, I definitely don't think it (on top of the exposed soul thing) would be overpowered if it also raised its corpse if it dies during the exposure. If you think it is overpowered, then you must say that MC is too...

 

I'd say MC was OP if it could affect more than one target at once and the affected target took X% more damage.

 

4) What's your opinion of my Banish idea? :P

 

Not entirely sure about it, honestly; Rift Surge has a similar mechanic, but gets an infinite range out of the deal (since having a low radius on a skill that only affects enemies you put in the Rift would suck), which might be a lot for a 25 energy skill.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Archwizard

[Azamagon]

1) Which should be Terrify's function. The fact that he has so many 'supplemental' crowd controls is why Terrify has so many drawbacks. The point of Terrify's rework in the OP it to concentrate that niche into one skill, to buff up his other skills.

 

 

2) A necromancer shouldn't be a blaster-type character swimming in AoE damage effects. The point of Soul Punch in the OP is to cripple priority targets - like with now, but without the lie that it's an AoE. If the fact that it only affects one target per cast is enough of a problem in practice, I'll reconsider the effect.

 

 

3) I'd say MC was OP if it could affect more than one target at once and the affected target took X% more damage.

 

 

4) Not entirely sure about it, honestly; Rift Surge has a similar mechanic, but gets an infinite range out of the deal (since having a low radius on a skill that only affects enemies you put in the Rift would suck), which might be a lot for a 25 energy skill.

1) Good point. But couldn't the same be said about MC versus Chaos? Both are strong and both focus on Crowd Control. A Warframe can have multiple similar effects on several abilties (like MC and Chaos), as long as they differ somehow (like MC and Chaos). That said, maybe the haunting soul is a bit much, no matter how unique it is :P

(I like your changes to Terrify, but like I said, that doesn't stop Soul Punch from having some decent CC on it either).

 

2) Alright. And I don't really wanna make him a blaster-caster either, I just want some necromancy stuff on him :P

Considering the points you are making here though, I'd give my vote more on the shadow minion as the after-effect. I still want your soul-exposure to be there though, it's such a unique and cool idea! :)

 

3) Considering how strong it is INSTANTLY, for sure. Also consider that MC is recastable on a target, over and over, for as long as it can live. A soul punch minion (if that's a good choice for its after-effect, which imo it is) would only be able to be done ONCE per target, ever.

 

4) The "rift damage" would also have infinite range though, since this "AoE"-damage only affects (all) targets inside the Rift and nowhere else. I just thought it was a decent idea, since it's a new way of adding AoE-damage, which requires some setup (either by spamming Banish like crazy, or by a well-placed Cataclysm) *shrugs* :P

[Archwizard]

1) Good point. But couldn't the same be said about MC versus Chaos? Both are strong and both focus on Crowd Control. 

 

MC focuses on repurposing and weaponizing an enemy, Chaos just focuses on keeping enemies off you. MC's effect is more concentrated as a result.

In this case, Soul Punch focuses on completely debilitating an enemy, giving it a more concentrated effect than Siphon Life - but unlike Chaos and MC, both can be used in tandem without overwriting one another. It also gives it the stopping power Terrify has an opening for.

 

3) Considering how strong it is INSTANTLY, for sure. Also consider that MC is recastable on a target, over and over, for as long as it can live. A soul punch minion (if that's a good choice for its after-effect, which imo it is) would only be able to be done ONCE per target, ever.

 

Right, but you could also cast Soul Punch on multiple enemies to have multiple exposed souls active - just not all in the same cast.

 

4) The "rift damage" would also have infinite range though, since this "AoE"-damage only affects (all) targets inside the Rift and nowhere else. I just thought it was a decent idea, since it's a new way of adding AoE-damage, which requires some setup (either by spamming Banish like crazy, or by a well-placed Cataclysm) *shrugs* :P

 

Limbo's not a blaster class either.

 

Edit: Added a full Zephyr writeup to the OP. Her section was getting pretty big.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Archwizard

[Noble_Cactus]

I just read over the updates to the OP, and I've got to say that I'm impressed by how far Nekros has come (and by how many different versions he's gone through. With a few tweaks, that sounds like a class of want to play.

A couple minor suggestions:

- Maybe Soul Punch could draw aggro from your own minions to the afflicted target? Perhaps this would be too much given how many functions your Soul Punch currently has. If it's not too much, maybe it'd only attract the attention of a few Shadows so that your entire squad isn't focusing just one mob.

- There are a couple functions for Shadows that I could have sworn were in older versions of the write up... Or maybe I'm misremembering things. Anyway, giving all Tenno the ability to walk and shoot through Nekros' minions would help make the ability a lot less annoying for everyone. In addition, I feel like Nekros should be able to summon his zoo to him with the press of 4, at the cost of a little energy. This would help Shadows fit better into more mobile mission types, since you often have to leave them behind when you're moving around.

Just food for thought.