An Idea For Rushers/door Heroes

[drMightyPotato]

I know this is perhaps 1000th post about this, but hear me out would ya'.

The concept is this: limit loot, exp, ammo, mod gain depending on your distance from the team. 

Now as sure as it is this is a team game but here is a bit of a clarification.

 

Now. Imagine, each person has a circle around them that is about 30 meteres in length. One person obviously is solo, however here is the catch. A team is formed if another persons circle overlaps with yours even for 1 meter. So if two people form 2 circles within, as a example, 50 meter's they form a team (note, if at 60m length they will get reduced drops they arent overlaping, but at 59m they will get drops) 

Same goes for 4 people.

So.

To further elaborate.

When minimum two people form a team like that then, and only then, will there be drops from mobs or xp gain. 

As a example.
If person A and person B form a team by staying within 50m(example) from each other mobs will drop loot while person C that either rushed or is afk wont get a thing other than dead mobs.

Some people showed me a error of sort in this idea. The game should not punish different game styles (altho some things imo should be, but thats me)

Anyway a bit of a change. so, people that DO form a team get a boost in drops (increased mod drop rate, increased energy drop rate, boost in xp and ammo ammount), while those that are away from the team (solo play) get a reduction in ammo amount and maybe xp.

 

So if there is someone who is far from the team circle they will have current mod drop rate but they will also have: reduced ammo amount, reduced energy drop rate, reduced xp gain (maybe, maybe not). THIS IS ONLY WHEN THERE IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON IN THE GAME (what this means is that if you play solo but in a public game you still get normal drops without any buffs and reductions).

 

 

Anyway with this idea rushers can rush all they want but those that stick together will be awarded for teamwork.

EDIT: made some changes, hope this version is better.

ps. i know this will be a murder for exterminate missions but im open to suggestions.

pps. i would like if a mod or someone could remove the ''butthurt'' word or pic posters thank you.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Alinna

[BrotherIcarus]

I do not like the idea.

 

I am all for promoting team play but not by forcing you into it by punishing any other play style.

[Dargon22wp]

I do not like the idea.

 

I am all for promoting team play but not by forcing you into it by punishing any other play style.

+1

[HellEnforcer]

 Although I like the idea overall. This is awfully hard to implement in the sense of actually working as intended.

 This would indeed promote sticking together, but sometimes teamwork is not really sticking together. 

 

 I never play in publics, so it is hard for me to speak with full certainty. However, when I am playing with my clanmates, we often times split up to do certain things faster. Most notably is splitting to activate a life capsule on survival. One runs there killing all on the way as long as you don't stop, activate, mark the place and go back. Then we take turns going to the mark and picking up anything that was dropped on the previous pass. As most of the times there are only 2 rooms with life supports, we stay on the one closer to the exit in case of emergency and just keep doing that. 

 

 Another example is when we find more than 2 paths to the objective. We rarely go to it. Whenever we find a bifurcation, we take the detour. If more than one detour available, we split, check and announce if anything worth it was found.

 

 As for door heroes, your idea could be implemented but instead to players, to the intended target to defend. I don't know how beneficial that would be though.

Edited March 24, 2014 by HellEnforcer

[Stormandreas]

I do not like the idea.

 

I am all for promoting team play but not by forcing you into it by punishing any other play style.

-1

I think its good, as rushing and being a door hero is a very stupid and annoying way to play with. No-one likes it when people bugger off ahead, die, then expect you to help them back up. No, I won't do that.

I think its a good idea, and would help synergy between players. It also means that multiple online teams have to work together properly to get good loot, and so promotes team play. Perhaps make it so that the rushers get very VERY little loot, but those in a team get much more.

[BrotherIcarus]

-1

I think its good, as rushing and being a door hero is a very stupid and annoying way to play with. No-one likes it when people bugger off ahead, die, then expect you to help them back up. No, I won't do that.

I think its a good idea, and would help synergy between players. It also means that multiple online teams have to work together properly to get good loot, and so promotes team play. Perhaps make it so that the rushers get very VERY little loot, but those in a team get much more.

It does not promote team play it punishes none team play, that is a very important distinction all this will do is make people play less online because of puggs not doing this.

[CaveCricket48]

So in a pug of two people, I can punish my partner and give them absolutely no loot and exp?

[Longhorns]

Problem is, what about the veteran players who dont need loot.  During potato alerts I rush to the target, finish the objective, and rush to extract. 

 

Just because it doesn't fit your gameplay style doesn't mean others don't enjoy it.  I don't see the point in taking 30 min to finish a mission that would otherwise take 5 mins.

 

If you're talking about defense or mobile defense I see your point, it can be annoying.  So why punish yourself?  Just leave the game and start a new one.

[7grims]

This idea sound good, but I don't think it's totally correct.

If anything those circles, or team xp share should be a thing more noticeable in the game, the hud or ui should give some hint if u are at sharing range. So your idea works, but more punishments aren't a feature ppl find attractive in a game.

People play bad cause they aren't aware of xp share, so its easier to make that info always accessible, instead of creating features that only reinforce punishment and non-fun.

 

As for rusher, they are not a problem in this game, they are not playing bad.

It's the game that doesn't have content, its the game that forces ppl to grind, its the game that rewards for quantity instead of quality, it's the game that keeps on forcing repetition.

 

As for door heroes, yes, they aren't aware they are not winning any special xp, even if they kill all enemies, they wont win more for that, and the problem of these is really the lack of info on the game, ppl don't know how xp share works, and even if they do, theres no way of knowing/seeing the range of when this sharing works.

[drMightyPotato]

It does not promote team play it punishes none team play, that is a very important distinction all this will do is make people play less online because of puggs not doing this.

maybe make it then so that people who are not in the team get a reduced drop ammount (less xp, ammo) but those that do stick together get a bit of a boost in that same regard (more xp, ammo). Hows that?

EDIT: i didnt mean this to be a ''be all/end all'' idea, just simply a suggestion. Sure some types are not to be punished but being in a team should be encouraged.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Alinna

[ViLeDeth]

There is no incentive for team play.

 

I solo 90% of the time. Do it and ignore online play. There is no need to play with others unless you are a Volt/Nova looking for a Nova/Volt to rush through invasions.

 

I'll join some Void missions from recruiting tab and that's it. I started 7 months ago and tbh, I wish I could enjoy multiplayer but I can't without the feeling and experience I get from solo play.

 

Defense missions are a joke, Vauban for infested - Loki for Corpus/Grineer. (Excalibur, Nyx, Rhino, Nekros also) Soloing survival and defense is pretty much end game for me as it is for people doing it online in multi.

 

 

So this idea you have isn't going to make the game better until it gets a fundamental overhaul that engages people on making teamwork the means of getting missions done and receiving rewards.

[DJ-7809]

Now I can agree with the door hero problem, but rushing players?  That's absolutely ridiculous.  They can run faster than you. So what?  Run faster than them then.  While I can agree that I dislike it sometimes when people move through far too fast and I don't get to enjoy the game, that's my own fault!  I can go Rhino and still not have any problem keeping up with my teammates.  It's all about the parkour mechanics they give you.  If you can't keep up, that's your own fault.  You're not missing out on anything by picking up the loot they leave behind.

 

 

As for door heroes....They can be annoying to a point.  A Nova nuking everything so you can't get any kills may not deprive you of xp, but it deprives you of playing the game.  I dont' think it's fun to sit there and watch as Nova kills everything, even if I"m getting xp while she does so.  I want to be a part of the game too.  Those aren't necessarily problems, however.  

 

 

In all, this should not be implemented.  There are far too many different playstyles to punish one kind in favor of another.

[drMightyPotato]

Now I can agree with the door hero problem, but rushing players?  That's absolutely ridiculous.  They can run faster than you. So what?  Run faster than them then.  While I can agree that I dislike it sometimes when people move through far too fast and I don't get to enjoy the game, that's my own fault!  I can go Rhino and still not have any problem keeping up with my teammates.  It's all about the parkour mechanics they give you.  If you can't keep up, that's your own fault.  You're not missing out on anything by picking up the loot they leave behind.

 

 

As for door heroes....They can be annoying to a point.  A Nova nuking everything so you can't get any kills may not deprive you of xp, but it deprives you of playing the game.  I dont' think it's fun to sit there and watch as Nova kills everything, even if I"m getting xp while she does so.  I want to be a part of the game too.  Those aren't necessarily problems, however.  

 

 

In all, this should not be implemented.  There are far too many different playstyles to punish one kind in favor of another.

I feel a need to clarify what i mean by 'rushers'. To me a rusher is a person that leaves his teammate behind when they are down, people that dont destroy traps or cameras that are in the way when they activate them or a person that simply flies by if they run into a group of mobs that could take down their teammates.

Now you tell me in what way does any of the above make a good player.

 

And fyi i am never against fast play or fast players, but being a &#! while doing (rusher) is not gonna help anyone.

A fast player will not be exactly punished, his mod drop rate wont be reduced and if they play smart they will only lose on ammo amount and energy drop rate and maybe,i dunno, 15% xp.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Alinna

[Ryme]

If they're going to categorize according to positioning distance, they will need normalize all base speeds and remove speed mods. As a Frost, I can use maxed Speed and Stamina mods and still struggle to keep within visible distance to a pair of rushing Nova and Ember ult spammers.

 

There are also several instances where everyone but one person rushes off in defense, escort, or survival missions. But by the suggestion, the person who stays near the objective is punished for not just ditching objectives and resources that the other players have ignored.

 

Directly punishing players is always a bad idea. If they devs want team play, they need to come up with actual level and encounter designs that promote it. Right now, simple and direct brute force trumps any need for tactics or group coordination.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Ryme

[DMan]

1 flaw that I noticed:

Lets say you have a team of 4. 3 of them are fighting together and one solo. The 3 get the suggested drop rate boost and move along. The solo comes to the place where they were and picks up all the mods that were given to them. So he didn't really miss anything.

Hope it makes sense.

[SolidSp33d]

I feel a need to clarify what i mean by 'rushers'. To me a rusher is a person that leaves his teammate behind when they are down, people that dont destroy traps or cameras that are in the way when they activate them or a person that simply flies by if they run into a group of mobs that could take down their teammates.

Now you tell me in what way does any of the above make a good player.

 

And fyi i am never against fast play or fast players, but being a &#! while doing (rusher) is not gonna help anyone.

A fast player will not be exactly punished, his mod drop rate wont be reduced and if they play smart they will only lose on ammo amount and energy drop rate and maybe,i dunno, 15% xp.

 

People here use "rusher" in so many ways it's kind of hard to get a grasp of the actually behaviors you're talking about unless you get a little more specific.

 

Not your fault, but the fault of some people who use terms like that so loosely and whine about everything.

[Cemges]

Rushing is an essential dynamic of game. I dont get why everybody thinks it is wrong. People who think game should be slow are wrong imo.

[drMightyPotato]

1 flaw that I noticed:

Lets say you have a team of 4. 3 of them are fighting together and one solo. The 3 get the suggested drop rate boost and move along. The solo comes to the place where they were and picks up all the mods that were given to them. So he didn't really miss anything.

Hope it makes sense.

they miss out on extra xp, and he doesnt get the same amout of ammo. i do see your point tho, but this is mearly a guide line. we need acctual  encouragement for teamwork.

 

Rushing is an essential dynamic of game. I dont get why everybody thinks it is wrong. People who think game should be slow are wrong imo.

Read my last post to DJ-7809

[DJ-7809]

If you can't handle yourself without one player more in your team, then you shouldn't whine about it.  I can solo every single boss mission. I may sound like an elitist prick here, but I"m saying dude, chill out.  Don't whine about it when someone moves faster and can't revive a teammate.  I apparently am missing the whole point of this topic, because it just sounds like another whine post.

[Wahooo]

Rushing and hallway heroes are two different things.

 

What about the guy that lags behind the other three looking for ?? who knows what and dies?

 

The game has a pace and it is usually pretty fast, the game has a time to come together and a time to spread apart and what you are suggesting in the OP is just bad all around.  For the mission types that require people to come together the shared XP range is good enough.

The fact that there is almost no reason to coop in any game mode you are joining a pub group is not going to be solved by forcing people to stay together for that amounts to almost no reason as the benefit you are suggesting isn't really that big by the current game's model.

[7grims]

There is no incentive for team play.

 

I solo 90% of the time. Do it and ignore online play. There is no need to play with others unless you are a Volt/Nova looking for a Nova/Volt to rush through invasions.

 

I'll join some Void missions from recruiting tab and that's it. I started 7 months ago and tbh, I wish I could enjoy multiplayer but I can't without the feeling and experience I get from solo play.

 

Defense missions are a joke, Vauban for infested - Loki for Corpus/Grineer. (Excalibur, Nyx, Rhino, Nekros also) Soloing survival and defense is pretty much end game for me as it is for people doing it online in multi.

 

 

So this idea you have isn't going to make the game better until it gets a fundamental overhaul that engages people on making teamwork the means of getting missions done and receiving rewards.

 

 

Very well said.

[drMightyPotato]

If you can't handle yourself without one player more in your team, then you shouldn't whine about it.  I can solo every single boss mission. I may sound like an elitist prick here, but I"m saying dude, chill out.  Don't whine about it when someone moves faster and can't revive a teammate.  I apparently am missing the whole point of this topic, because it just sounds like another whine post.

Yes you do kind of sound like a elitist prick as you put it, but im not talking myself im talking about others. I myself dont have problem keeping up and go down only when im either overwhelmed by a insane force or act as a idiot.

[Zeful]

If they're going to categorize according to positioning distance, they will need normalize all base speeds and remove speed mods. As a Frost, I can use maxed Speed and Stamina mods and still struggle to keep within visible distance to a pair of rushing Nova and Ember ult spammers.

 

There are also several instances where everyone but one person rushes off in defense, escort, or survival missions. But by the suggestion, the person who stays near the objective is punished for not just ditching objectives and resources that the other players have ignored.

 

Directly punishing players is always a bad idea. If they devs want team play, they need to come up with actual level and encounter designs that promote it. Right now, simple and direct brute force trumps any need for tactics or group coordination.

The problem with that is it requires an overhaul of enemy design such that player damage is meaningless as a statistic. Which means that weapons themselves are meaningless. It's possible to design enemies of greater complexity, but with the way the mod system works, how damages work. It's literally not possible to make an enemy that cannot be killed by one weapon. An enemy with 90% damage reduction to all areas until blast proccs blows off his armor, and then takes 50% more damage from Viral and Slashing damage? Vasto modded with Deep Freeze and Ice Storm, Pistol Pestilence and Heated Charge.

 

As long as one player is capable of bringing with him a gun for every problem that might appear in a mission (even if the problems vary from mission to mission), then it's not possible to build a game where teamwork is mandatory.

[BloodKitten]

normal missions, place 4 players door bypass at the end.

 

defense and mobile defense, place invisible barrier to prevent players from passing past the room they need to be in, disable it between waves and next wave wont start untill everyone hit a ready button near defense objective.

[Rakosta_Kai]

It does not promote team play it punishes none team play, that is a very important distinction all this will do is make people play less online because of puggs not doing this.

It's important to remember that Rushers aren't team players per se. It's a playstyle that has poor synergy with players that don't rush.

If anything, the rest of the group is a screen that provides cover allowing the rusher to be on their merry way.

 

That's not to say I am a fan of the OP's idea...

I think it's a bit unforgiving to newer players and playstyles as some frames are literally way faster than others and can't help being across the room from a group.

 

Allowing for mission preferences would be a better and simpler means to resolve the issue, but would subdivide the playerbase.

A mission finder of some sort set for lvl preference, enemy preference, mission type preference and mission flow preference (normal, lightning, recon, stealth) would meet the same needs with fewer ruffled feathers.

Rushers could then complain about others being slow without being asshats about it, the flow of the mission would be for rushers only.

 

 

The thing to remember is that Rushers want to play with others as well... They just wanna go fast while they do.

By this logic, slow members are as frustrating to Rushers as Rushers are to slower members.

 

I know this because I'm one of the slow guys and my son is Zippy McZippington in missions... we frequently want to kill each other after hard missions.