Melee 2.0 Feedback: Megathread (With Template).

[kalad2]

Weapon(s) used: Mostly dual swords, Primarily Dual Heat Blades and Dual Cleavers

Faction(s) fought: all

Stance used: Swirling Tiger

Approximate time spent: Didn't count, though I would say in Excess of 10 hours

Thoughts & experiences: I think you've got a good idea here, though some holes might need plugging, for example, I must admit I feel the switching to and from melee mode IS a bit slow and could stand to be tightened up, and flying drones are a pain to kill, I practically /have/ to switch to a gun to kill shield drones in extermination missions which drains some of the fun of melee mode(maybe make jumping downward stabs more effective against them?). Overall, I still really like it, makes stamina regen mods worth it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by kalad2

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

Weapon(s) used:  Dark Dagger, Skana, Cronus

Faction(s) fought: Mostly Grineer and Infested-- about 3 contested Dark Sector Sabotages

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used:  Fury Rank 3, Reflex coil rank 2, Parry Rank 5, Various Element mods around Rank 3, 2nd wind rank 2, Reflection rank 4 (awesome) Pressure Point Maxed

Thoughts & Experiences:  Absolutely love it,  I only wish that melee AI would block bullets better at this point as to force us to WANT to pull out our melee a bit more.  

 

I ranked the Dark Dagger from 1-25 with the "rare" dagger stance.  It is very hard to use without Fury/Reach-  but this is a GOOD thing, normally you would never need fury on a dagger, but with this stance- to build combo's you actually do.

 

-DEFENSE MISSIONS:  Melee Kind of sucks here-- simply because between waves your combo counter has no choice but to drop.  (not that big of a deal)  

 

-AGAINST INFESTED:  with swords and daggers, the crawlers and even the baby Phorid's often get missed by attacks which causes unnecessary combo meter drops.  

 

Approximate Time Spent: 8-9 hours

Supplementary Info:

 

CONTROLS USED: Trackball and Keyboard used (Mouse 5-- which is right beside Mouse 1 on mine for Melee Attack)  Mouse 1 remained for Gun Fire and Channel

 

-THE PROBLEM:  I cannot see my melee combo's when my Melee Attack is bound to anything besides Mouse 1 when I look at them under options > Melee Combos  it just shows as ""Name of Combo"" --- *Nothing here* So to see my combos I have to practice with mouse 1 then rebind to mouse 5 for my ideal set up.  So I concur with everyone who agrees we should be able to bind mouse 1 to both Melee attack and Fire weapon.  You can bind the same button to Channel and Fire Weapon so why not melee attack?

 

-Some extra feedback-  It took me a long time to figure out that I needed to Channel AND block in order to trigger a knockback and chance to parry/Kill the mob-- some info on this somewhere would be helpful.

 

STANCE MODS:  They make melee so much more fun- but I feel that no change in the slam attack/ wall attack/ slide attack for the weapon with a certain weapon is not cool-- I also think that the mod should have to be max rank in order to execute the "Best combo" available for that stance.

 

Or just give each stance 1 combo-- and expand on it and have it branch out as you rank the mod up 3 times.  Starting with a very basic tap tap tap at unranked.

 

Ranking my stance mod all the way up to find no new combos was extremely underwhelming! :-)

 

Thanks for the awesome patch DE-- over all I couldn't be more excited for this to come to PS4!

 

I hope this thread helps!

 

~Crackle2012 (PSN)

~Quatto87 (PC accnt.)

Edited April 17, 2014 by (PS4)Crackle2012

[ranks21]

single sword.  plasma, skana, pangolin, heat.

stance used> Iron phoenix.  

 

 All combos works charging  blocking and a combination of the two features simultaneously while rushing enemies leaping off walls sliding flip  jumps decapitates heavy gunners heads  they all work, even found how to make the charging pulse like it has a heartbeat really cool sound.

 

dual sword= skana  and zoren

stance used> swirling tiger

 

 same as above

 

 scythe= hate

stance used= reaping spiral

 

kinda slow to build up speed but was able to pullout all combos out of it.

 

Summary;  would love to get just one cleaving whirlwind to put in the galatine to see how it performs with a stance but the ancient disruptors will not drop any  since the release of 2.0 for me.

 

[TheInfiniteDoom]

Weapon(s) used: Nikana (both versions), Hate, Reaper Prime, Orthos, Nami Skyla, Heat Dagger, Jat Kittag, Ankyros Prime, Prova

Faction(s) fought: Grineer, Corpus, Infested, Tenno

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Tranquil Cleave, Reaping Spiral, Shimmering Blight, Sundering Weave (all other weapons were used without stance mods, and several were used without stance mods until the stance mod was found)

Thoughts & Experiences: I'd like to start by saying that I LOVE using melee in Warframe again. I definitely prefer channeling over charge attacks, it brings a nice level of strategy to the gameplay. I like that I can weigh energy for power use against increased melee power. It's interesting that I can build my weapons and warframes toward and away from channeling and melee attacks.

However, I still have some reservations about this new melee system:

First off, movement sucks. It has for a long time, but the new melee system really brings it front and center. "Coptering" exists because it's @(*()$ painful to navigate Warframe. For a game that supposedly sells itself on ninja moves and awesome stunts, there is literally zero ninja parkour happening on purpose. The average player walks while shooting, sprints a short distance, and then we either drop to our knees and slide/spin or we jump into the air and helicopter our way across hallways. There isn't even an in-game context in which that style of movement makes any sense. There's no reason to believe that any Warframe armor makes Zoren-coptering an intuitive move, let alone a core mobility tool. It looks stupid when used that way, it doesn't make sense in or out of context, and it bypasses what should be a core gameplay system by abusing another.

 

I say that to say this: Melee 2.0 all but broke "Coptering" in my playtime since Update 13. It's no longer a go-to move for me, even on high-speed weapons. There's as much of a chance of me falling straight down and losing all my momentum in the spin as there is for me to radically launch myself down a hallway. That might sound like a good thing, but it's not. What it means is that I'm left with basic movement, which as I've said before, sucks.

What I keep running into is that damn Stamina cap. You can't sprint very far before your Stamina meter is completely depleted. That's part of the reason why nobody does it for more than a foot or two before sliding. The depletion rate is doubled if you're blocking fire while sprinting. By the time you get to enemies, your stamina is gone. It seems that you've noticed that, because we lose stamina for melee attacking, but it never actually stops you from melee attacking. This begs the question of why we even have a Stamina system. If it's supposed to regulate our melee attacking so that we don't spam it, why doesn't it ever stop us from spamming it? If it's meant to control our movement, why even do that in the first place? For Melee 2.0 we have to close distance quickly to keep the combo meter going. In general, the whole point of the game is to be an agile space ninja, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for us to have such punishing restrictions on making use of that agility. It's restrictive to the point that I can count the number of wallruns I've seen in well over 500 hours on my hands.

The only thing the stamina system does right is limit the duration of blocking. With that, I propose that Stamina be removed from all systems except blocking for the time being. People would still probably attempt to copter, because it's often faster. That's not going to change until Movement gets its own 2.0 version. However, allowing us to sprint from one target to the next would greatly help us close distance between engagements without having to copter. Stamina currently has no effect on melee use, so there's really no reason for melee to draw from it. Better that we could sprint and melee at will, because the current design encourages us to do both of those things constantly. At the moment, it's really frustrating to lose my combo meter by one inch because my sprint ran out. It's also frustrating to be left unable to block after attacking, because that's literally the one time I desperately need to block.

 

Now that we're on the subject of blocking, I'd like to say that it's good but it still needs work. As mentioned before, the stamina drain is really high out of a pool that is extremely small. In addition, it's been pretty finnicky in my experience. Blocking damage works just fine, but I can't do it for more than a few seconds and I can never seem to trigger any actual parries. I have no clue what the mod that increases "counter" does, but I assume that it has something to do with this system. As-is, the best I can figure out is that blocking stops damage, and channeling while blocking is supposed to trigger parries... or something.

Speaking of channeling, I'm a bit bummed that it's bound to left mouse button. It feels more intuitive for my now-primary weapon to have the same button to attack as all other weapons in the game. I melee attack far more often than I channel, and to be honest I either want to channel or not channel. There is never a time when I'm like "Oh, I'd like to channel for this hit, but not that hit". Every hit is exactly the same, and does roughly the same damage. There's no way to tell if I've gotten a crit or not until the hit has already landed, so there's no way for me to prioritize one melee strike over another for channeling. In addition, channeling cost tends to be pretty low, so it would likely work better as a toggle on the E button than it would as a held-button on LMB. This way, I hit E to start channeling, then I can focus on clicking my enemies to death. If my energy gets low or I want to stop channeling for any other reason, I hit E again to stop. I think this would help with controllers as well, the last thing you want to do when binding controls for this system is have more buttons pressed/held at once.

That brings us to button presses. The timing of melee still feels a bit off in practice. In the thick of 30 Grineer, it's very hard to actually pull off any of the fancy moves in Tranquil Cleave or Reaping Spiral. Your goal is to hit a lot of things very quickly. There's no way that it's intuitive to pause for the awkward length of time necessary to trigger a combo. The period of time constituting a "pause" is simultaneously too short and a bit too long. I almost always mess it up because the game either doesn't count my pause as being long enough, or it judges that I've waited too long and stopped attacking altogether. The window is so narrow that it's generally just faster and easier to slash endlessly to the same result. Against any enemy that is low enough threat to focus on the timing, their health is too low to justify all the extra jumping and slashing. The moves end up cutting a dead body to shreds for so long that you lose your combo meter.

 

The combo meter is just way too short. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the meter has died while I'm frantically sprinting and spinning after an enemy who is never more than 3 feet away from me. After killing a group of Grineer or Corpus, I'll have my 1.5 or 2.0 damage increase, with one straggler running and shooting at me. As I sprint and spin after him, I realize that his speed is pretty much the exact same as mine. With the new changes to the spin attack, the recoveries are so long that it negates all the ground I covered during the spin. I can't catch that enemy until well after the timer expires. It's also very difficult to close distance to the enemies in groups who seek cover. You'll kill the 3-5 guys who cluster in the center of the room, but you'll never carry the combo to the rest of the enemies because they're spread out to every corner of the room. You might reach one, maybe even two if you're really on your game, but inevitably someone runs and you'll lose the combo.

 

You will also lose the combo every single time you're knocked down. By default, the knockdowns last so long that almost every Tenno death and lost combo can be attributed to them. There's never enough of a warning on knockdowns for them to be an avoidable move. Ancients will immediately throw themselves into a knockdown-laden full sprint, as will shield lancers. The latter can knock you down even if you bypass them, because the collision detection is really weak in this area. I wouldn't say that this system needs to be removed, but it's prevalence makes melee extremely frustrating. Enemies never attempt to block, deflect or dodge your attacks, they simply spam their knockdowns as soon as you get within range. There isn't a way around losing your combo meter when encountering these enemies. Either you stop and block, or you soldier on regardless and get yourself knocked down. In many cases, it's not even possible to stop attacking fast enough to react to the enemy knockdown. By the time you see the telegraph and begin to attempt a block, you're already too late. This speed issue extends to blocking in general. It's hard to find times where it's appropriate to block; you're either stunlocking, closing distance, or you're knocked down.

 

I'd say that the system suffers from being oversimplified where it needs to be deep, and being too complex where it needs to be straightforward. Blocking is a multi-stage affair of dubious usefulness, while attacking still boils down to mashing a single button at a set rate to produce "combo attacks". Tenno have gained new melee prowess, but the enemies don't seem to have really been updated to react with anything other than those irksome knockdowns. Again, it's not a dealbreaker on it's own, but when it's the only tactic the enemies possess it grates very quickly. I know I have more to say on this subject, but I'll need some time to gather and re-structure my thoughts before editing this post.

Approximate Time Spent: Upwards of two hours per weapon. Additional time was spent using the Nikanas, Orthos, and Jat Kittag.

Supplementary Info: Bosses still don't react well to melee. By that I mean that it's possible to whale on pretty much any boss and stunlock your way to victory. I assume that the agile quad-robots do fine, but enemies like Ruk or Jackal can be done in by simply chipping away at their health. Melee apparently bypasses their invincibility frames, so all a team has to do is rush in with melee and keep chaining hits until the boss keels over. I've reached upwards of 250 hits on Ruk, by that point I was sporting over 3x damage. Poor Jackal actually loses the ability to move when being attacked, players of all skill levels are just beating it into a metal pulp.

[Traeyze]

General Feedback:

Overall:

I like the update. While I don't think it is necessarily 'better' or as effective as running with primaries or secondaries it is now very viable, which is all that really matters. I found running high long Ceres survivals very doable and a very different and interesting experience with its own tricky elements.

Generally speaking I feel that everything that is currently interesting about the system just needs to be ramped up. Stances need more individual utility functions for each of their combos or for the effects of 'special hits' within combos to be more pronounced so that melee can fill a more practical niche.

More moves that trip, stagger or offer vastly expanded AOEs is something I'd like to see more of. While the system is compared to DMC, or at least that was an influece, I would love to see more of a nod to games like Dynasty Warriors where movelists all have different functions [one is a launcher, one is an AOE, the longest combo is usually a weapon specific gimmick, etc]. I've seen a few show up here and there but yeah, ramp it way up. Nothing to lose, really.

More combos per weapon would be nice, especially on ones that only have 2 major ones, but only if there is a point to the new ones/they do something interesting.

Lock On:

I found turning camera lock on made using the system infinitely easier but it made obvious the lack of ability to target and permanently lock onto an enemy and how this makes fighting things like Prossecutors in a crowd a little bit hectic. Admittedly it is not a huge issue, but a proper lock on button would be nice.

Channeling:

There is no doubt it seems very flimsy. Considering the extravagant and excessive explosions a lot of powers create, the glowy patterns and sparkles the current channel system offers is not awe inspiring. To top it off the boosts it adds doesn't seem worth the effort compared to damage builds because of the way all the mods work off boosting the channel portion instead of calculating the total damage and adding to that. I could see how that would snowball, though, so it is not necessarily something I would fix first: channeling does still increase DPS by a pretty healthy degree.

While I didn't have the issues with the control layout some other people seemed to have I must admit that I found channeling a bit of a 'waste' of the lmb, especially with so little visual feedback. I had trouble with it apparently not triggering mid combo [like channeling for the final hit of a combo], but that could just be to do with my timing of pressing the channel. It would be easier if clicking the mouse did a hit that was supercharged, unless there was some other cool visual reason to have it held down [LIKE A FLAMING DRAGON BALL Z AURA DO IT DO IT].

I find that the lack of innate channel modifier in weapons removes a great deal of variety from what weapons you choose. While previously there were weapons that were viable if biased towards charge builds [Galatine et al] the current system tends to just favour 'whatever hits hardest' and as a result I found that I did not vary my builds much. A dedicated 'channel build' is a more arbitrary choice than it was previously.

Combos:

The problem is this: enemies that don't need combos you rip apart in one or two hits. Enemies that do need the combo boost it is too hard to build up a worthwhile combo. I personally think part of this is that the combo window is way too short: since groups of enemies are isolated you need more than 4 seconds to get to the next one to continue the combo, meaning any enemy you face you will likely be at zero combo modifier. At the very least the ability to mod towards combo window might make for an interesting alternate build or... maybe even having weapons with different innate combo windows/scales [dual swords have shorter ones to make up for faster strikes, etc]. The principle of combos is good and does really help, but it is currently not that functional to maintain high combo counts, at least not from what I've seen.

Combo Types:

In general pause combos seem a lot more forgiving than hold combos currently. It can be difficult to know when to hold because three quick E pushes will not general trigger all three hits, rather only two will register. Pause on the other hand seems much more forgiving of the animation lags/input disparity. I personally would like to see less hold combos and more RMB combos, since those register a lot better/can be partitioned.

Stances and Finding Them:

I don't think they are too bad drop wise, I got all the major ones a lot easier than I got Void Prime junk. My main concern is that some of the more obscure weapon stances are dropped by enemies that in hundreds of hours of gameplay I had never even seen before. Farming them, even with good insight into where to find them, is a nightmare whilst the popular weapon stances are dropped in easy to grind levels. It just makes the prospects of using anything but the popular weapons all the less appealing because they would be pre-empted by a really tedious farm; the katana on the other hand, for example, I just did a bunch of Earth survivals while grinding equipment and I got it in two runs and sunshine and smiles followed.

-------

Stance used: Coiling Viper [scoliac]

Faction(s) fought: Mainly Grineer [Ceres survivals]

Mods equipped/Stance used: Killing blow, voltaic strike, fever strike, focus energy, smite grineer, spoiled strike, fury, pressure point

Thoughts & Experiences:

This has proven my favourite weapon and stance so far, offering a nice blend of output and utility. The most jarring element of the stance is the lack of combos, having only the basic and one longer one, so I can only hope this will be built upon.

Whistling Wind: I found this a good basic as it allowed you to maintain momentum, especially for the first couple of hits, that meant you could use it while running with no major slowdown. A lot of drive by whipping to be had. The spread is really nice and the healthy degree of stagger makes it really easily to beat down heavies with.

Tumbling King: The trip utility element makes this great vs heavies and I would use this as a good example of how more combos should work, offering unusual and useful effects that shooting can't. I found that once I worked out the best timing for the combo was to wait for the second hit of the second E to land I never had a concern pulling this off. The jump is a little unruly, camera lock on really helps here, but the final spin part seems a bit weak/pointless currently, being both odd to aim and not having any really noticable benefits.

Spiral cut having zero range makes sense because it would be pretty broken if it was at full range but part of me is still sad to see it like that.

Anyway, ripping up crowds was fun, and it is really functional, but the lack of combos does make it a little limited in terms of what moves to use.

Approx. Time Spent: A few hours, probably 4

Supplementary info: Mouse and Keyboard, played both solo and coop.

-

Stance used: Tranquil Cleave [Nikana/Dragon Nikana]

Faction(s) fought: Mainly Grineer [Ceres survivals]

Mods equipped/Stance used: Killing blow, voltaic strike, fever strike, focus energy, smite grineer, spoiled strike, fury, pressure point

Thoughts & Experiences:

A nice moveset visually, I like the variety of the animations. In general I feel that there is a lack of utility/usefulness to a lot of the combos, meaning you tend to focus on just hitting as quick as possible. The stance is also a 'stationary' one, working well when enemies rush you but being harder to use when you are chasing things. I also found the stance doesn't do enough stagger on hits in general; often against heavies you'd be countered.

Windless Cuts: I find the recovery on a single strike way too high, meaning you can't swipe and keep running which ends up ruining your flow. The range on the first hit is really odd too, it seems to hit further sideways than forwards, not feeling like a true arc, though it could just be wonky depth perception on my part. The timing for all three hits feels off too, the first two are quick, the last is slightly delayed meaning if you press E three times quickly you'll do two hits and not the third.

Breathless Lunge: This is the sort of thing I would like to see more of, the multithrusts are cool and useful on heavies. The kick is kind of odd looking but more importantly doesn't seem to work as an overhead despite it all, at least it didn't seem to on the shield grineers I killed. The ability to use it while moving is cool, but makes the combo 'too viable', I don't see a point to using the others in comparison.

Beyond Reproach: I had a lot of trouble pulling off this timing on this one, part of it was that I was initially not sure if I was meant to be holding the third E strike or the fourth. Regardless, even once you do it the slashes, while slower and obviously heavier I didn't notice them being much more useful. Are they meant to do more damage or stagger or something? Shrugs.

Hook and Eye: I don't really see a point to this at all, it just didn't seem viable. The rush at the end needs to be longer and wider if it is meant to be the sweeping AOE, though that would obviously encroach on Slash and Dash territory I suppose. As it is it feels like bloat, and makes me sad that my whip only got two combos.

When the moves have a bit more functionality/utility added it will be one of the more interesting weapons. Output wise it is probably one of the best for damage, though a big part of that is the Dragon Nikana being pretty tank.

Breathless Lunge is really satisfying. Blender stab.

Approx. Time Spent: A few hours, probably 4

Supplementary info: Mouse and Keyboard, played both solo and coop.

-

Anyway, those are the main two I've used so far. I have about half the stance mods now, but haven't had the chance/built the weapons to try them all to the degree I have these two.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Traeyze

[Balduron04]

Weapon(s) used: Reaper Prime, Hate

Faction(s) fought: All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Reaping Talon

Thoughts & Experiences: The spin attack with the reaper prime seems horrendously slow compared to its normal hits. When in the stance, the combos are nice and quick.

 

The spin attack with the reaper prime along with its normal attacks make me feel like its simply a heavy and strong weapon compared to the HUGE difference that the reaper prime has.

 

Overall, Its quicker and easier to just hold guns and quick-strike than to enter melee mode and do combos.

Approximate Time Spent: 30 minutes (15 minutes each)

Supplementary Info: mouse and keyboard

[Starender]

Weapons used: almost all

 

Mods equipped/stance used: almost all

 

Time Spent: more than i can count

 

Thoughts & Experiences: this is a great step forward, but this lacks two things, and i made posts about those, which are detailed and as short as i could

 

MELEE 2.1 > DOUBLE TAP MOVEMENT = DASH: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217853-melee-double-tap-movement-dash/

 

Channeling Mods Not Viable > Explained: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/213181-channeling-mods-not-viable-explained/#entry2485017

[PhoenixShi]

What's the point of our melee weapon consuming stamina, if we can keep swinging it when we have no stamina left?

[FoxFX]

Weapon(s) used: Practically all of them besides Machetes

Faction(s) fought: All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: All Channeling and Damage Mods

Supplementary Info: Mouse and Keyboard

Approximate Time Spent: around 2-5 hours daily since U13 hit

 

Thoughts & Experiences: This is where I usually be a bit wordy and be a bit more structured on the subject

 

Problems Experienced and Shared from Others

1> Some players feel that combos with the "hold E" and "directional E" stuff can be a bit of a hassle

2> Blocking certain enemies (like Tenno Specters and Stalker) is highly ineffective against them

3> Lots of players feel Channeling should be more of an on/off option

4> Sometimes blocking ranged attacks/bullets with melee is still a bit unfavorable

5> Finishers should be more rewarding

6> Channeling is a bit costly since each hit you loose your Energy under Channeling Mode

 

Now here comes the part where I feel Melee 2.0 should really be all about:

 

Stances

 

1> All stances should have 2 different combos: Normal Combo and Channel Combo

2> Normal Combo is usually the very first combo you see in all Stance Mods

3> Channeling Combo occurs when under the Channeling State and only under Channeling Stats

4> Stance Mods while having 2 different Combos should have a special property when doing Channeling Combo

5> Remove the "Holding E", "Pause E", and "Directional E" commands for all Melee Combos

6> These suggestions would remove any complexity of doing combos with very fast weapons and it gives players the chance to add speed mods to the slower weapons like Galatine that they feel got heavily nerfed

 

Examples for Dual Sword Stance Mods:

 

[swirling Tiger]

(Normal Combo) Raking Flesh: EEEE

(Channeling Combo) Winding Claws: EEEEEE

(Effect) Channeling Combo spins your twin swords around  sweeping any enemy in the path

 

[Crossing Snakes I]

(Normal Combo) East to West: EEEE

(Channeling Combo) Northern Coil: EEEEE

(Effect) Channeling Combo at the end releases a radial blast in front of you

 

[Crossing Snakes II]

(Normal Combo) East to West: EEEE

(Channeling Combo) Lacerating Leap: EEEEE

(Effect) Channeling Combo at the end knocks down enemy allowing for a quick Ground Finisher

 

Channeling

 

Channeling should be a duration ability (ex. Activating Channeling cost 10 Energy to remain in Channeling Mode for 10 seconds) this eliminates any inefficiency on using Channeling at the wrong time in risky situations

 

Blocking and Parrying

 

1> Parrying should also be a duration ability where after you press the block button (the right-click mouse button), there is a duration where the Parrying effect occurs. (For instance, the Parrying effect works at the moment I block, but only lasts 1 second after using the Block button. A Grineer is attacking me with an axe and I am holding the Block button for around 3 seconds after his axe connects. As a result, the Parrying effect is not there at the moment the axe connects, and the Grineer is not stunned. But if it connects its axe within 1/2 a second after I push the Block button, the Parrying effect occurs and the Grineer will be stunned.

2> Every melee weapon should have an inert Reflection Stat which states how much damage is reflected form the enemy bullets.

3> These suggestions should give a better edge when using the blocking function especially against ranged attacks

 

Finisher Attacks

 

1> Killing an enemy with a Stealth Attack should grant more affinity, larger quantity of drops (like ammo), and an increased chance of dropping rarer drops. (This effect increases slightly further during Channeling Mode)

2> Finisher Damage should be shown in the Melee Stats

3> This could give players a reason to use Finishers more often and should diversify more if they want to mod their melees for Finisher Attacks instead of pure Damage bulds

 

Mods

1> Warframe Mod, Reflection, should be a melee mod

2> There should be a mod that gives reflected bullets form blocking an increase chance to stun a shooting enemy with a reflected bullet. (could possibly be done when under Channeling Mode only)

3> If Channeling Mode were to be a duration ability, there should be Warframe Mods that should Increase the duration of Channeling Mode

Edited April 19, 2014 by FoxFX

[VoidPunch]

More of a general overview.. sorry if it is too long but I figured it is worth mentioning.

 

Weapon(s) used: Most all of them, mainly Dragon Nikana, Jat Kittag, Galatine, Dakra Prime, Reaper Prime, etc

 

Faction(s) fought: ALL

 

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Tranquil Cleave, Shattering Storm, Rending Strike, Reaping Spiral

 

Thoughts & Experiences: First off, like most people already said, the ability to rebind the melee key to the fire button when equipped would be great.

 

Over all, I like melee 2.0 and how it turned out. It is refreshing to use and sometimes a welcome challenge. Their are things that could make it better, some opinions and some that really should be changed. In total though, it's good. Great job to the whole team, animations, ideas, visuals, etc, it all looks and feels great. However, there are things I want to comment on since this is feedback:

 

Stances: stance mods are kind of a pain to find and without a stance the new melee feels worse the melee 1.0, extremely lack luster without one.

Also, most only give one extra combo which is rather lame, I would have much rather had only one stance with 2 or 3 combos added (like Tranquil Cleave) rather then two different stances with only 1 combo added. The arsenal could also project the info better on how/if the stance changes the stats, i.e. slower but stronger attacks.

 

Channeling: It's a nice feature, damage is good, the effect is really cool but it feels under utilized and not a good replacement for charge attacks. I would like to see weapons that have different channel values like charge weapons did in melee 1.0. (ex. Galatine could have a 60% channel buff instead of 50% like every weapon, and have some weapons have lower channel rates but compensate for raw base damage. Think along the lines of Crit and Status weapons. Also, channeling efficiency rates. Have some weapons cost less or more depending on how good the channel is on the weapon. This would add a lot to the diversity of weapons. Right now every melee weapon is modded about the same since they all use base damage and channel damage the same.) Or what about channeling combos? 

 

Melee enemies: These are disappointing to say the least. The prosecutors are extremely lame and a let down, I love their visuals though. All they do is twirl their Amphis, that is it. They barely ever swing at me, just twirl to block, seriously. I thought they were going to use combos too. I thought we could have enemies we could duel with, ones that will attack and chain combos and have tell signs on when we should block or attack! What we got was the Grineer's drum major. Tenno specters seem to attack more, maybe it's because they have better weapons to use but they still block more then anything once you are in their face.

 

Combos: Going back to stances, this is more nit picky, most combos right now are not really worth doing. Either they don't do enough damage to compensate trying to pull off instead of spamming E. (the combos should have a massive attack in the middle or end to justify pulling off. Some do this well, most do not.) Or they are awkward animations that are not really useful on the battle field. They are very Flashy and look great, however, they should provide a better reward for pulling them off. Some, like Rending Crane's Landing Dragon move where it ends in an AoE knockdown is great, this is my favorite stance right now. Others, like the Reaping Spiral animation are weird, and inferior to spamming normal attacks; the idea behind kicking the scythe is cool but it's not that practical when actually using it, especially on infested where it goes over them.

 

 

Approximate Time Spent: 12 hours since it released, maybe more, idk.

 

Supplementary Info: Mouse Keyboard, solo and co-op.

Edited April 19, 2014 by HandsOfnArtist

[PaperAlien]

Weapon(s) used: Dark Sword

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Wait for it.... none! Thanks to a genius decision from DE to hide all their efforts behind the game's much-hated and highly detrimental RNG wall, and with their current response disappointing. Don't worry guys, I know which enemy drops which mods! Now all I have to do is grind for ages on this particular enemy! That's made everything so much easier! The possible solution of adding them to the market is perhaps better than nothing, but (aside from the fact that a market addition would probably be sold in plat because "it's not exclusive, you can still farm for it without paying plat") I personally feel that as core mechanic of gameplay and the main feature of this update, we should have instant access to at least one stance to start with. You don't give us warframes without giving their ability mods. I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking we even get ONE stance mod to start with.

Thoughts & Experiences: Without stances? Feels much the same as Melee 1.0, except without charge attacks. I don't see why we need a stance equipped just to get the combo multiplier, that feels like something that should be granted. On another note, the removal of charged attacks might pose a problem to weapons whose strengths are high charge damage, such as the Dark Sword, and as I've heard from others, apparently the Galatine as well. Some numbers might have to be adjusted, or new weapon-specific stances which might put emphasis on certain parts of the combo. Charged attack weapons might have combos that have disproportionately strong finisher moves to reflect the original difference between charged and light attacks.

Edited April 19, 2014 by PaperAlien

[Archaic_]

Weapons used: Dakra Prime, Fang Prime, Glaive Prime, Nikana(s), Bo, Hate, Galatine, Dark Dagger and the Dual Ichor.

Factions fought: All.

Mods equipped and stances used: A lot of different combinations utilizing the majority of the melee mods. Flailing Branch, Clashing Forest, Crossing Snakes, Reaping Spiral, Pointed Wind, Rendering Crane, Swirling Tiger, Tranquil Cleave.

Thoughts and Experiences: Melee 2.0 is great in general, both in terms of its viability and enjoyment but I wouldn't mind if a few things changed. The delay between attacking to blocking is a bit too long in my opinion, especially at higher levels. That delay leaves you completely vulnerable when attempting to fight larger crowds of enemies ( for example: Survival missions).

 

Another thing I would like to point out would be the combos, Clashing Forest has a whirlwind for its basic combo and that's fine but the second executable combo isn't worth really using in combat due to it being rather pointless when I could just use the first combo to inflict more damage and at a wide range. While the second combo does deal damage to multiple enemies, it just seems more pratical do continuously use the basic combo. Perhaps if it had more damage then I would definitely use it more on single targets for faster disposal of them. In other words, through my experience its impratical to use and not as rewarding.

 

The melee auto targetting feature at first was fantastic but after a while I noticed that my attacks couldn't connect with the enemy and with my observation I found that it prevented me from approaching the enemy at a certain distance, I remember this experiencing often with the Dakra Prime in particular (no Stance). Basically, I would walk towards the enemy and at a certain point I couldnt go any further towards them while still being relatively close to them but out of my weapon's reach, if I proceed to hold W to move foward, my warframe (Excalibur w/ Proto Armor) wouldn't do such but instead walk in place.

 

I've seen suggestions for melee attacks while in mid air to combat the flying enemies, I think that would be rather helpful in most situations for me since I now mainly use melee and most of the time I find myself also not equipping proper ability mods to take them down, Ash without Shuriken equipped for example.

 

Ash's ultimate will contribute to the combo counter but I think Excalibur's Slash Dash should as well. I would appreciate that addition.

 

Overall I find Melee 2.0 a great addition and a great alternative to what we previously had. Thank you for this amazing update.

Approximate time spent: Several hours now, +15 hours for sure.

Supplementary info: Mouse and keyboard, Solo and Online modes.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Maruko_

[FitzSimmons]

Thoughts and Experiences : Reflex Guard allow players to parry automatically when not using melee mode, but it's difficult to fight because players can't interrupt that auto parry by attacking with guns, it makes us need to find cover to use gun or auto parry won't stop. can you consider to make improvement on that so guns can interrupt auto parry? not only melee attack and use power. thanks :D

 

[kimahn]

Weapon(s) used: furax, second feedback

Faction(s) fought: all, hierakon tenno conflict

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: http://goo.gl/ftvpsh , i tried ... a lot of setups, this one is not reliable, but its the best i can achieve with the knowledge i have now.

Thoughts & Experiences:

 

pros : huh .. this is the furax. the damage can eventually be good. the finisher allow a guard break, i think ? sometime i can even manage a neck snap, im pretty sure this is caused by the lag. the combo raise fast, you're in 2* mode after 15 hits. roaring drum is quite efficient.

 

cons : pretty much everything. the weapon is super slow. the damage are ridiculous, and the crit need 2 mods to be -eventually- useful. the damages are even more erratic that ichors (ichors can compensate this weakness with swirling tiger). the spin is ridiculously short range AND weak. playing it without life strike is purely a suicide, but it forbids perma channelling, and this weapon desperately need more damage, the point-blank range makes it extremely dangerous to use. i was going for a fracturing wind but using it without a mouse wheel full spam is not smart, you need the combo multiplier absolutely.

 

in summary. i'm pretty sure furax deserve the award of the worst weapon in the game, even single dagger are better.

 

modify a bit the stats. i don't even want to compete with good weapons, such as polearms, staves, dual whatever, hammers and stuff, i just want to be ATLEAST on par with a brutal tide kogake.

 

21 impact > 35 impact. on the first hit, in the best conditions, i can land a 700. most of the time this is more like a 130.

90 spin should be 140, with a solid 210 on the final punch

90 leap ... well. leap is more a tool on furax, so .. whatever. perhaps a channeled slam could be a bit more ranged ?

90wall ... huh. wall attack is extremely hard to land correctly, useless to say that on furax i dont even bother trying.

1.0 speed > 1.3 here is the real problem. you made the kogake hits hard, with a way faster combo, with more range. power fists combo deserve more speed.

20%@2.0. > 25%@2.2 huh. the problem comes from organ shatter ihmo, most of melee weapons have very low rates, slotting 2 mods to achieve a 32@3.8 is horribly random. 50% crit mate modded is eventually a good deal, less than that .. i wouldn't even bother if i could find a best solution.

 

finally seismic. slow, dramatically slow. i can deal with the rest but the poor mobility, the super slow pace, no. it doesnt work.

i m not sure i fully understand stance yet, i think it has a passive dmg multiplier ? and i cannot reproduce it but sometimes i manage a neck snap after a full guard break, i found that fun ! (i already said it but .. 100% of the power fists weapons are made for frontal impact. why lateral strikes ? oO)

 

anyway. when you have any other weapon, using furax is a really bad choice. this is probably why i will continue to test it. on a more general point of view, i really think we need an explanation on what orientation you wanted to give on every weapon and stance (and what effects it gave to them), because sincerely i do not understand, this is thick, and super messy right now.

Approximate Time Spent: at least 4 hours

Supplementary Info: coop and solo. i used a rad sweeper + guardian to allow me to move and finish combos without getting destroyed. i bind melee on mousewheel to avoid any loss of time between hits, funny thing : with furax, carrier has more dps than me, and has more killshots. heh.

 

ps : we desperately need more slots. = polarity, who cannot be formaed, and put all the mechanic skill (parry, fury, channelling, etc etc) in that polarity. please. yes, we ll probably have to forma our weapon badly to use them all. but at least we could use funny mods such as parry, without destroying our dps :'(

Edited April 19, 2014 by kimahn

[raqib1991]

So I just did 100+ melee combo, that was uber https://fbcdn-sphoto...028187718_n.jpg

 

https://scontent-a-o...024285792_n.jpg

 

Nami Skyla on Zepher with my Lanka on back (re-leveling stuff) vs. Jackel

 

 

[Azamagon]

Very thorough feedback here, from all weapontypes and with all the stances I have found so far (will update when I get new stances!)

[RaiZu]

Weapon(s) used:Nikana/Dragon Nikana

Faction(s) fought: All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Tranquil Cleave

Thoughts & Experiences:

I feel like the build for this stance is very blocky. I can't comment on the normal attack but the combos have awkward animations and functionality. On beyond reproach, after the pause, the quick stabs have a very small hitbox, I rarely ever get to hit anything with that attack, and the continuation of the combo looks extremely painful for the warframe doing the move. 

I'd also like to say that "Beyond Reproach" has weird animations, smacking with the katana.

 

And lastly "Hook and Eye" on the attack dash does no damage and the dash does not happen if the player is moving.

 

I would like to summarize that traditionally the katana has a curved shape to aid in slicing but the animations we have been given for it focus on thrusting and a bit of whacking. The katana should take advantage of the fact that it has a scabbard and should be implemented in attacking for maybe some short staggers, and also the drawing motion should be used for a strong attack or finisher, and I have to say, after I've tried out all of the stances this one feels most unnatural.

 

The best experience with stances by far is on "Iron Phoenix". The combo is very easy to pull off, the pause has a perfect window of opportunity to allow the combo to be done either right away or delayed a bit and we can aim every attack in any direction, and the animations for it are very fluent like on the scythe stance. 

Approximate Time Spent:

Countless Hours.

Supplementary Info: None

[Brozime]

Weapon(s) used:Various Dual Swords, Nikana's,All Scythes, Hammer/Axes,Staves, Glaive, Kogake,Whips, a few others without stances

Faction(s) fought:All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used:All stances besides the Rare stance for the Scythe other than that just raw damage mods

Thoughts & Experiences:While a huge improvement upon what we had originally.  Melee 2.0 so far lacks in two departments.

 

1. The consistent ability to close distances quickly while using only Melee (Very few stances address this the main example being Swirling Tiger) This is of the utmost importance in keeping our combo going from room to room or even from enemy to enemy.

 

2. Viability in Blocking.  It becomes completely obsolete after level 25 or so enemies

 

The worst thing about this is that using Stanced Melee weapons on Mercury and Venus is a blast and you can close distances and stagger enemies fairly easily due to blocking not taking an enormous sum of stamina.  I would move that depending on how much stamina you have while parrying bullets that stamina should work more based on time spent parrying rather than amount of damage enemies are doing to you.  This would mean no matter how many enemies are shooting at you you could parry consistently for say 10-15 seconds which gives you time to position yourself to fight back as it is now blocking is useless unless the enemies are already not a threat which essentially brings everyone back to using guns no matter what.

Approximate Time Spent:Since release

Supplementary Info: Mouse and Keyboard both Solo and in a party

[Calsius]

Weapon(s) used: Dark Sword

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Wait for it.... none! Thanks to a genius decision from DE to hide all their efforts behind the game's much-hated and highly detrimental RNG wall, and with their current response disappointing. Don't worry guys, I know which enemy drops which mods! Now all I have to do is grind for ages on this particular enemy! That's made everything so much easier! The possible solution of adding them to the market is perhaps better than nothing, but (aside from the fact that a market addition would probably be sold in plat because "it's not exclusive, you can still farm for it without paying plat") I personally feel that as core mechanic of gameplay and the main feature of this update, we should have instant access to at least one stance to start with. You don't give us warframes without giving their ability mods. I'm not even asking for that much. I'm asking we even get ONE stance mod to start with.

Thoughts & Experiences: Without stances? Feels much the same as Melee 1.0, except without charge attacks. I don't see why we need a stance equipped just to get the combo multiplier, that feels like something that should be granted. On another note, the removal of charged attacks might pose a problem to weapons whose strengths are high charge damage, such as the Dark Sword, and as I've heard from others, apparently the Galatine as well. Some numbers might have to be adjusted, or new weapon-specific stances which might put emphasis on certain parts of the combo. Charged attack weapons might have combos that have disproportionately strong finisher moves to reflect the original difference between charged and light attacks.

Most agree we should have at least a basic stance with the Skana to start. Or buying basic stances for credits in the market. Or just coming with the weapons themselves. I can't imagine how someone would feel making a Dragon Nikana, and never getting the only stance for it.

[Calsius]

Very thorough feedback here, from all weapontypes and with all the stances I have found so far (will update when I get new stances!)

You and all the other testers are to be commended. Well done.

[FoxFX]

My last post kinda derailed the current structure of Melee 2.0 a bit, so I decided to redo this and doo a post that kinda supplements some aspect of the Melee 2.0 by doing something about FInisher Attacks, Channeling and Parrying.

 

Weapon(s) used: Practically all of them besides Machetes

Faction(s) fought: All

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: All Channeling and Damage Mods

Supplementary Info: Mouse and Keyboard

Approximate Time Spent: around 2-5 hours daily since U13 hit

 

Thoughts & Experiences:

 

1> Parrying certain enemies (like Tenno Specters and Stalker) is highly ineffective against them

 

2> Reflecting Bullets should be a bit more rewarding

 

3> Finishers should be more rewarding

 

4>Channeling is a bit costly since each hit you loose your Energy under Channeling Mode, and alot of players argue about having Channeling an on/off skill

 

 

Channeling

1>Channeling should be a duration ability (ex. Activating Channeling cost 20 Energy to remain in Channeling Mode for 10 seconds) this eliminates any inefficiency on using Channeling at the wrong time in risky situations

2> While in Channeling Mode, each melee attack will not cost you energy for each hit under Channeling Mode.

 

3> In this version of Channeling, Channeling will feel a bit like ho DMC's Devil Trigger mode where you have to pay an Energy Cost to be in that mode for a small duration. This not only gives players some more option to use Channeling Mods like Second Wind (which a lot of players find that mod a bit lacking now), but also gives players a chance to combine their abilities with melee mode for a more efficient energy cost.

 

 

Parrying

1> Parrying should also be a duration ability where after you press the block button (the right-click mouse button), there is a duration where the Parrying effect occurs.

(For instance, the Parrying effect works at the moment I push the block button, but only lasts 1 second after using the Block button. A Grineer is attacking me with an axe and I am holding the Block button for around 3 seconds after his axe connects. As a result, the Parrying effect is not there at the moment the axe connects, and the Grineer is not stunned. But if it connects its axe within 1/2 a second after I push the Block button, the Parrying effect occurs and the Grineer will be stunned.)

2> Every melee weapon should have an inert Reflection Stat which states how much damage is reflected form the enemy bullets.

 

3> To not cause confusion, blocking/parrying will still require Stamina cost to balance things out

 

4> Reflecting Bullets should have some means to stun enemies so that the player can move closer to the stunned enemy and launch a Finisher

 

5> Tenno Specters and Stalker should be vulnerable to parrying and stun, but not to stun by melee combos

 

6> These suggestions should make parrying about timing and keep the challenge melee 2.0 gives as well as making it more convenient to go close quarters with enemeis.

 

Finisher Attacks

 

1> Killing an enemy with a Stealth Attack should grant more affinity, larger quantity of drops (like ammo), and an increased chance of dropping rarer drops. (This effect increases slightly further during Channeling Mode)

 

2> Finisher Damage should be shown in the Melee Stats and maybe increase in damage

 

3> This could give players a reason to use Finishers more often and should diversify melee customization more if they want to mod their melees for Finisher Attacks instead of pure Damage builds

 

Mods

 

1> There should be a mod that gives reflected bullets form blocking an increase chance to stun a shooting enemy with a reflected bullet. (could possibly be done when under Channeling Mode only)

 

2> If Channeling Mode were to be a duration ability, there should be Warframe Mods that should Increase the duration of Channeling Mode

 

3> With the suggestion of the Parrying effect, there should be a Warframe Mod that increases the duration of the parrying effect as soon as the block button is hit (for a relatively small increase).

[DIGITAL-DAMAGE]

Hi,

The meele2.0 update is a good idea and i love it,

but it would be nice to have the regular quick meele moves with the regular charge-attack before the update + the meele2.0 update....

Its a way to less quick meele moves and there is no charge attack anymore,

an update would be the perfect.... thx DE.

[ItalianPlumber]

Copy-pasting from a recent thread. I'd love to see blocking and dodging be made more valuable!

 

Parry / Retribution

-Currently: adds a chance to automatically counterattack while channeling / sometimes deals electric damage to melee attackers that hit you.

 

-As a mechanic: At any time when using melee, press Block + Dodge at the same time without using a movement key to stop whatever it was you were doing, give freedom of movement, and block melee attacks for a very short time (about .5s, ideally). It'd cost a sizable amount of stamina (and would be harder to time correctly if used without stamina [.25s]). Enemies that have their attacks blocked will be stunned briefly, opening up an opportunity for a finisher [like they do now, except all the time].

 

-What it'd do instead: Reduce the cost of "reactive blocking" / Give you a short-length damage buff after blocking an attack / Stun enemies for a longer time. This could have multiple variations, potentially! 

 

-Why: Blocking feels very static, and could use a little more complexity than "hold M2 to not die for a while". "Reactive blocking" would make Melee 2.0 a little more complex, as opposed to only being really fancy.

 

Maglev

-Currently: Boosts the speed [and effectively the distance] of your dash-slide. Fun, but barely useful.

 

-As a mechanic: You can now dodge-roll at any time using Block + Dodge + a movement key. Press Dodge again while sliding or dodge-rolling to extend the maneuver to get CC/proc immunity and huge damage reduction. You go farther if you wait longer before you extend the dodge, or shorter if you don't wait.This extended dodge costs a very high amount of stamina.. and you need stamina to dodge, now. No stamina, no dodging! 

 

Different Warframes could have different styles of dodges, perhaps even with unique effects! 

 

[Excalibur would have the simplest, but fastest dodges. Frost would create a small but invulnerable wall of ice behind him. Ember would leave a trail of fire. Nyx would confuse enemies near the start of her dodge for a short time. Ash would vault far and fast. Hydroid would surf away, a little slowly, but being able to shoot at the same time. Zephyr would launch high into the air. Rhino would knock down enemies that he runs through. Nekros would vanish briefly. Vauban would place a bounce pad behind him that launches enemies away. Nova would teleport a short distance [but not through walls]. Saryn would place a corrosive adhesive that slows enemies and reduces their armor. Loki would move far away, disarming nearby enemies... etc. etc.] Or, if that's too much, every Warframe would have the same dodge with the same mechanics, doing them faster or slower based on their base speed. But that'd be pretty simple.

 

-What it'd do instead: Reduce the stamina cost of dodging and boost your damage reduction during standard dodges.

 

-Why: Dodging is pointless right now, since blocking is better in almost every way, besides reducing the damage from procs. A way for players to react to incoming damage, or even bypass CC, would add another layer of skill that I'm sure would be fun. Dodging requiring stamina would mean stamina management matters beyond not being able to block or sprint- if you're too bloodthirsty, you'll have a difficult time getting out of a bad situation.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

As a PS4 user I haven't used melds 2.0 yet, but a thought I had for potential update would be the option to equip more than one set of melee weapons.

Weapon(s) used: Probably limited to two sets, a heavy weapon and a light weapon. This will require a tweak to the hi so you can properly manage modding and a key, or button for PS4 will need to bound for switching between them. Should be manageable. Example: Tenno equips a Hammer or Bo staff in the one slot and dual fangs in the second slot. Taps a button to stitch on the fly, possibly chaining combos.

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Another nice addition would be the ability to assign more than one stance mod that could be changed on the fly with a tap of a button. This too would variety to the combo system.

With this change Tenno would now be able to have up to four weapons equipped. However, given that now weapon slots can be left unequipped this shouldn't dilute the experience received to badly.

[nintega]

Weapon(s) used: Gram

Faction(s) fought: Infested

Mod(s) equipped/Stance used: Fury, Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike, Killing Blow, Reflex Coil, elementals, Rending Crane

Thoughts & Experiences: The Gram is painfully slow now, and especially with how small Rending Crane's attacks are, it's very difficult to even hit anything, and this slowness doesn't even have any kind of pay-off, no high damage, no special crowd control, not even very likely to one-shot light Infested. After that I tried a build replacing some mods to fit in Quickening, Berserker, and True Steel, to try and speed it up, and it was still way, way more slow than any other weapon I've used since Melee 2.0 came out, and in some cases actually dealing less damage than those much faster weapons. And looking at the stats, Galatine and Scindo have the same problems, so the Heavy Melee category in general greatly needs some kind of buff, either to speed or damage, to bring them up to the level of most other melee weapons.

Approximate Time Spent: 30 minutes, maybe, didn't exactly time it.