Why Exactly Was Fury Nerfed Again?

[Sealgaire]

Why do people keep repeating the reason for the nerf being ease of combo use as fact? This was never stated be DE, and isn't the most likely reason.

 

They did a rebalance of melee across the board, leaving almost no stat untouched, and I don't think any reasonable person would argue it's less effective now. I'm the biggest crusader for melee viability you're likely to find. I was *@##$ing at DE to make it competitive long before the vast majority even started playing warframe, and I'm thrilled with melee 2.0.

 

You have to look at all the factors when deciding whether a particular mod is balanced under the new system. Base damage for example is much higher, so Fury at 60% under melee 2.0 would be much more powerful than than it was in the past. Charging attacks multiplies this even further, as they are now performed at the same speed as your normal attacks.

 

I don't think I've heard people take into account combo multipliers either, which are a potentially HUGE damage buff, and Fury makes it easier to rack up large multipliers, again making it more powerful in ways that didn't exist pre-melee 2.0. For people who want the benefits that extra speed can grant them, they still can with other mods, but they'll have to devote more mod energy so it remains balanced. On a side note, why do people think quickening only applies to charged attacks? That's not what I would assume from the wording. It seems like it's supposed to give you a higher attack speed charged or not, but makes charged attacks more expensive to balance it.

 

Beyond that, if they can adjust other factors to allow melee to be more powerful than it was while reducing speeds so the animations don't look so damn goofy, win freakin win. A speed buffed melee user now looks like a skilled, superhuman warrior rather than a loony tunes character on crack, and that's a big improvement in my book.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Sealgaire

[Bakim0n0]

Attack speed is far, far more powerful after Melee 2.0 because now - dependent on swing speed - any weapon in the game can copter.

Almost all of the lighter weapons could copter before... or knifeskating or whatever the kids want to call it.

If anything the sweet spots became tighter on certain weapons and looser on others; but I can get distance on a few weapons that put what they used to get to shame (especially machete)

[Blatantfool]

Almost all of the lighter weapons could copter before... or knifeskating or whatever the kids want to call it.

If anything the sweet spots became tighter on certain weapons and looser on others; but I can get distance on a few weapons that put what they used to get to shame (especially machete)

 

 Nah. Originally it was very, very uncommon for a melee to be able to match the Zorens when it came to coptering.

 

 Now a large number of weapons do.

[Bakim0n0]

 Nah. Originally it was very, very uncommon for a melee to be able to match the Zorens when it came to coptering.

 

 Now a large number of weapons do.

Maybe not match; but daggers, dual ethers, kama, the whips, the cleavers, and I think... the kestral could all do pretty well... I kinda forget if there were others. (the fangs may have but I've always hated them)

I will agree that more weapons can do it, but I think a lot of people were unaware that so many weapons could do it, they were just much harder to.

I noticed a pretty significant drop in the whips and pointed wind (the dagger stance) effectively renders a single dagger worthless for doing anything fast (they work fine without a stance) so far but I've barely scratched the surface testing things post u13

[Blatantfool]

Maybe not match; but daggers, dual ethers, kama, the whips, the cleavers, and I think... the kestral could all do pretty well... I kinda forget if there were others. (the fangs may have but I've always hated them)

I will agree that more weapons can do it, but I think a lot of people were unaware that so many weapons could do it, they were just much harder to.

I noticed a pretty significant drop in the whips and pointed wind (the dagger stance) effectively renders a single dagger worthless for doing anything fast (they work fine without a stance) so far but I've barely scratched the surface testing things post u13

 

 Personally, I still hate dual daggers and I'm likely to hate normal daggers too. I just don't like weapons that you can't count on for lethal damage to trash mobs before trading blows. If it can't take a charger out fast enough to prevent it from hitting me it isn't really worthwhile. That is just how I like my melee.

 

 Really, really like the Ankyros right now. The really easy to get stance, Fracturing wind, has a super easy to plug out combo with decent enough damage behind it if you ever actually get bored of just punching stuff. 

 

 I run a super tanky build on my Valkyr right now. Built my Ankyros prime into a split between crits and Life Strike. Surprisingly sexy combination. I was very quick to judge life strike as a crap mod but in that one instead if just adds onto the tankiness of the already difficult to kill Valkyr.

[Bakim0n0]

 Personally, I still hate dual daggers and I'm likely to hate normal daggers too. I just don't like weapons that you can't count on for lethal damage to trash mobs before trading blows. If it can't take a charger out fast enough to prevent it from hitting me it isn't really worthwhile. That is just how I like my melee.

 

 Really, really like the Ankyros right now. The really easy to get stance, Fracturing wind, has a super easy to plug out combo with decent enough damage behind it if you ever actually get bored of just punching stuff. 

 

 I run a super tanky build on my Valkyr right now. Built my Ankyros prime into a split between crits and Life Strike. Surprisingly sexy combination. I was very quick to judge life strike as a crap mod but in that one instead if just adds onto the tankiness of the already difficult to kill Valkyr.

My heat dagger, un-stanced, decimate stuff fast up to like level 30 or so... but I've always used daggers more for travel and not damage.

I hate the fangs because I don't like the looks lol.

I'm a bit disappointed in how my Hate performs but I figure I'll just wait till they give heavy weapons better adjustments. Currently enjoying the hell out of my fancy katana.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Bakim0n0

[fatpig84]

I don't think I've heard people take into account combo multipliers either, which are a potentially HUGE damage buff, and Fury makes it easier to rack up large multipliers, again making it more powerful in ways that didn't exist pre-melee 2.0. For people who want the benefits that extra speed can grant them, they still can with other mods, but they'll have to devote more mod energy so it remains balanced. On a side note, why do people think quickening only applies to charged attacks? That's not what I would assume from the wording. It seems like it's supposed to give you a higher attack speed charged or not, but makes charged attacks more expensive to balance it.

 

Beyond that, if they can adjust other factors to allow melee to be more powerful than it was while reducing speeds so the animations don't look so damn goofy, win freakin win. A speed buffed melee user now looks like a skilled, superhuman warrior rather than a loony tunes character on crack, and that's a big improvement in my book.

 

You said it looks goofy ?

Then why they nerf fury, added quickening and kept berzerker ?

You can get nearly same speed as before (50%), probably look goofy to you (your opinion by the way) but you have to lose your channeling efficiency.

 

So the speed is there, but you have to use 3 mods when previously you needed only 2.

Which means less damage overall, especially for crit weapon like Ichors/Zorens/Cleavers as that means a damage mod has to go. Then you have to further add flow back to your warframe (I use base energy frames) as you snort energy faster than a fat kid at a candy shop. 

 

And further dilution of the drop table that isn't welcome nor needed.

 

 

Now considering Tenno can actively deflect lightning from multiple arc traps and even fricking laser beams from multiple fusion Moas. even deflect a bloody force field from doors. I think the ability to land roughly 15+ hits in under 2 seconds is considered very well reasonable.

 

 

And as for melee "greatly buffed", past 40 minutes in T3 survival, melee starts to lose their edge just like guns.

In fact my fellow clannies reverted back to their guns by then. But that is fair, since I expect Melee 2.0 to close the gap with melee weapons and guns, so that is decent. 

 

So the point is, you have to suffer a huge Channeling penalty for more speed and deal reduced damage compared to the rest (3 mod slots used up) and make Flow nearly mandatory on your frame. This is counter productive and not needed at all !

Edited April 14, 2014 by fatpig84

[Monolake]

 No, but if you really think about it that makes plenty of sense doesn't it? Why should they be able to?

you said  "any weapon can copter  thus attack speed is more powerful"  I couldn't pass by such incorrect statement

[Blatantfool]

you said  "any weapon can copter  thus attack speed is more powerful"  I couldn't pass by such incorrect statement

 

 It wasn't really incorrect. You're welcome to copter with heavy weapons, they're just terrible at it without even further attack speed boosts. (like Valkyr's Battlecry or Volt's Speed)

 

 They're the underachievers of coptering class.

[LobsterFiend]

They they lowered the attack speed so you won't look like this

 

[Naphiro]

Just curious.

Spoiled strike is a bit useless to use now due to well. Fury being 30% and everythimg maxed.

Cause fury was too...furious...

[CapnFusterCluck]

Yup, I agree. Spoiled strike isn't worth it anymore.

Yes, Spoiled Strike isn't worth S#&$ because you get a combo multipler to pull out ridiculous numbers. I agree. 

[CapnFusterCluck]

This has nothing to do with melee buff. This is you can't combo with 60% fury and wanted to nerf the speed for everyone else. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Don't screw everyone else and burn down kitchen!

Bro, calm down. 

I stand by the Fury nerf. 

It seems you can't quite get the bigger picture here. 

[TheGuy08]

Does it really matter? Most weapons are insanely fast as it is and coptering can be done by so many weapons now that you need choose one with a fast swing speed. No matter the reason given haw quick weapons like Ichors eat through mobs i doubt we will see it reverted. There are option get used ot them. i hung up my charge build Orthos Prime and pulled out Ichors. If you are not willing to change with the game as it evolves given that it stills says beta then you will find many disappointments as the product tries to improve. it should have been mentioned i nthe patch notes for sure but so many devs do the ninja update that it isn't worth complaining over. No offense to those who feel cheated but get over it already. Melee 2.0 with all of its kinks is still a good update and nearly brings Melee to the point of usefulness on frames beside loki. 

[Bakim0n0]

Does it really matter?

For light weapons? Nope

For heavy weapons? Immensely.

p.s. Very narrow minded white knighting now that I've carefully read what you said.

Do not brow beat people for giving feedback on changes that didn't work out well; if you go on the attack every time someone gives negative feedback the game WILL NOT change for the better.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Bakim0n0

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[lZerul]

Been playing quite extensively, and I feel the nerf to Fury was quite justified. I was annoyed when I first noticed it, but trying out a ton of weapons and learning combos for the Stance mods I have managed to get, I understood why it was done very quickly.

 

Melee right now is insanely strong, as viable as the top tier range weapons if used correctly.

I equipped Berserker, Fury and Spoiled Strike onto my Dakra Prime and was swinging so fast that level 30-40 Ancients just evaporated without effort.

I tried something similar with the Dual Ichor + Valkyr buff, and I ended up attacking so fast that the attack animations would glitch out due to the sheer speed of the swings.

 

The nerfing of Fury was necessary from both a practicality and balance standpoint. Attack speed is far more valuable then it used to be due to the combo counter, and it makes comboing next to mpossible depending on the weapon/stance if you have too much of it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by lZerul

[TheGuy08]

For light weapons? Nope

For heavy weapons? Immensely.

p.s. Very narrow minded white knighting now that I've carefully read what you said.

Do not brow beat people for giving feedback on changes that didn't work out well; if you go on the attack every time someone gives negative feedback the game WILL NOT change for the better.

 

Well I was going to respond earlier saying you should read everything I said but it didn't seem worth an argument. Brow beating is part of the process of discussion. When you disagree with sentiment strong enough that you feel it necessary to respond and push a different point of view. You can say "White knighting" or whatever it really isn't that important given the scope of the update with new animations and feasible alternatives still in place to say that things have gotten this bad over this singular change is simply overstating the matter in my opinion. Like I said I had a charge speced Orthos Prime as my main melee build (something that completely disappeared). Given the fact we knew the changes would be drastic despite my disappointment I chose to just go with it given it would likely be for the good of the game over all. Lots of time went into that weapon but at the same time as long as the word "Beta" is still up there drastic changes are nearly bound to happen. You can disagree with the devs all day long. I disagree with the removal of charging and channeling doesn't fit well into any build I run. That being said the 30% when you can still achieve 60% with berserker and the fact that all the animations changes means that no matter how I look at it the nerf is not that big a deal. while you are fully entitled to your opinions I am entitled to mine. The only difference is I looked practically at if they are going to revert the change or not. Likely they will not. Given that likely possibly the fight over fury is simply not worth it to me. 

 

The devs can make mistakes. Not everything they do glitters as gold but when you ask for big changes expect big changes. There is no point calling my view narrow I looked at more factors than simply,"My weapon got nerfed not fair" and saw the big picture. Sure I would like fury to be what it was but likely it simply will not be. You can waist your time complaining or you could come up with a new build to suit the purpose of your play style. It is your choice. I chose the more proactive route that would get me back into the game faster. I simply looked at the value of the fight, deemed it not worth the effort, and moved onto a different build. You are free to argue with me but I see no need.

 

Btw the fact you didn't read my whole post the first time around (as I suspected) tells me more about you than anything I said tells you about me. My feedback is that I like the update.As entitled as you feel to comment on what I said I am entitled to comment on the overall tone of the posts here. Since I think the game got better it seems my feed back could be summed down to, "I am fine with the change". If you jump down peoples throats every time they give the devs good feed back the game might not get any better.

Edited April 14, 2014 by TheGuy08

[LionsPride]

its probably to slow down attacks enough to be able to do combos

Really? i mean really, i did not enjoyed the combo since most of the enemies are 1 hit and everyone is rushing through mission so i need to catch up plus, even if the enemies are tough how can you even combo when you do 2-3 strikes and you're knocked down.

[MagicOfLight]

berserker + quickening = you dont need fury

 

 

trust me on this

But look at it this way, to make a heavy weapon bearable now we have to use these.  And faster weapons get to use status mods for more elemental damage.  So heavy weapons are still nerfed hard with furys nerf.  IMO they should buff the damage more on the weapons they made unbearably slow, at least that way the DPS would be more even, as it is now attack speed on high speed weapons is way better, and puncture is the easiest damage to buff, daggers dps right now is crazy high.

[Sorez]

I want my fury back x.x