We Are Beta Testers, Your Game Says So

[Treebear2]

The subtitle to this forum post should be “how to effectively vote with your wallet.”  After a year of being involved with the game, I thought I should share my thoughts and feelings as to the state of the game, and more importantly addressing some of the venomous argument that occurs here, especially in regards to the introduction of new game mechanics.

 

I am of the belief that DE has backed themselves into a nasty little corner in regards to releasing content and balancing existing content.  The developers currently make their money from people investing money into Forma, skins, weapons, or early access.  This is entirely fair in my opinion, and I have no interest in debating the F2P aspects of the game, as all of these, outside of cosmetics, are obtainable given enough time.  

 

However, I don’t think it would be a stretch to assume that those people who have spent more time with the game have also invested more money into the game.  The problem here is that people that invest time and, more importantly, money, don’t want to see their game change.  Sure, they want to see new content, but not necessarily have the content that they currently have disrupted in any way.  Gamers invest some combination of the time/money into upgrading the flavor-of-the-month weapon or Warframe, and would be considerably upset if it was changed after the fact.  Sincerely, I was a bit miffed at having invested Forma into my Gorgon, only to have a completely better version in the Gorgon Wraith released later on.

 

What this has resulted in is an unwillingness to experiment with game mechanics as they stand, as current mechanics are profit earners. If chances are taken, even in establishing new content like in the case of the solar rails, the forums here blow up.  You see this as well when anyone here mentions game balance.  Two camps will always arise when mentioning something like Molecular Prime: those that see the core experience of the game as horribly broken as that ability stands, and those that enjoy the way the ability functions in its current state.  By appeasing those that have gripes with Molecular Prime, they risk losing the other group.  

 

We are beta testers, DE, your game says so.  I invested money in your game because i enjoyed the product.  Perhaps my time with the game has come to a close.  Certainly, I have invested more money in this game than any triple-A title.  My wish would be for you to evaluate who you are willing to lose more; those who want to you to experiment with your own game and find balance where all Frames are viable, or people that are happy with the status quo of two-hour long survivals with Trinity.

 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Treebear2

[Fo0otsteps]

Black text

Edit:nvm

Edited April 23, 2014 by Fo0otsteps

[Treebear2]

Fixed.

[Aggh]

Gorgon wraith is pretty bad overall too.  Not sure why it'd be worth getting mad over.

[Aercascade]

Explain.

 

Everyone sit down. I believe there is an epic story behind this.

[Paradoxbomb]

As someone who has played the game for quite some time and has invested some money here and there for platinum, I honestly look forward to major changes, as I want to see this game get better and improve, even if it takes some time to adapt to. Am I upset if a new mechanic changes the way my loadouts work and make me have to change polarities. Yes of course, but anyone who read the user agreement should know the DE blatantly stated from the beginning that Warframe is a beta and subject to major changes and therefore they shouldn't throw their money around left and right and then complain when DE makes a change that substantially improves the gameplay for the majority.

 

For example, if you're going to spend 400+ platinum on Primed Chamber or a maxed Serration or what have you, you have to recognize that overhauls to the damage system are inevitable and proceed only if you are willing to accept that risk.

 

Is DE's marketing strategy the best? I don't think so. Do they go about implementing all their major changes in the best way possible? Probably not, But Warframe is a WIP and it has been stated that things are always subject to change, so while it is important for players to invest money in order to support the company, you should invest within reason, and not spend 1000s of platinum on some gun or mod and expect DE to never change it just to be fair to you.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[DudeManThingDude]

Wow, probally a 12 year old

[Aercascade]

Wow, probally a 12 year old

 

Are you for real?

[Recel]

Am I the only one who isn't reading this as a "baww, you changed it so I leaveh!" thread?

 

I mean, all I'm reading here is someone who is concerned that DE will just put out new toys and gadgets, never to balance or change core gameplay, in fear of loseing players, especially paying ones. And this is a valid concern,and not unheard of in mass multiplayer games.

[MechaTails]

Only skimmed the post because I'm a bad person I guess, but general thoughts:

 

-DE could turn the game into a puzzle platformer right now and it wouldn't bother me. It's beta.

 

-Since it is beta, I'd like to see some more dramatic changes to see how they would affect the game, for better or for worse. No more little baby steps when it comes to things like balance.

 

Throw a monkey wrench into the machine and see what happens, that's what beta is all about, not pandering to the people who throw money at the game. Though I guess that's more of an airy-fairy concept and not a smart thing to do realistically/financially.

 

Whatever happens, I'd still play the game anyway, even when it's a 2D Super Mario clone, if only to stomp on Grineer heads with Banshee lol

[Dualstar]

Beta is beta.

 

When i pay for plat, its because i got a discount, but also because i want to see what happens next.

[Komakazi]

The subtitle to this forum post should be “how to effectively vote with your wallet.”  After a year of being involved with the game, I thought I should share my thoughts and feelings as to the state of the game, and more importantly addressing some of the venomous argument that occurs here, especially in regards to the introduction of new game mechanics.

 

I am of the belief that DE has backed themselves into a nasty little corner in regards to releasing content and balancing existing content.  The developers currently make their money from people investing money into Forma, skins, weapons, or early access.  This is entirely fair in my opinion, and I have no interest in debating the F2P aspects of the game, as all of these, outside of cosmetics, are obtainable given enough time.  

 

However, I don’t think it would be a stretch to assume that those people who have spent more time with the game have also invested more money into the game.  The problem here is that people that invest time and, more importantly, money, don’t want to see their game change.  Sure, they want to see new content, but not necessarily have the content that they currently have disrupted in any way.  Gamers invest some combination of the time/money into upgrading the flavor-of-the-month weapon or Warframe, and would be considerably upset if it was changed after the fact.  Sincerely, I was a bit miffed at having invested Forma into my Gorgon, only to have a completely better version in the Gorgon Wraith released later on.

 

What this has resulted in is an unwillingness to experiment with game mechanics as they stand, as current mechanics are profit earners. If chances are taken, even in establishing new content like in the case of the solar rails, the forums here blow up.  You see this as well when anyone here mentions game balance.  Two camps will always arise when mentioning something like Molecular Prime: those that see the core experience of the game as horribly broken as that ability stands, and those that enjoy the way the ability functions in its current state.  By appeasing those that have gripes with Molecular Prime, they risk losing the other group.  

 

We are beta testers, DE, your game says so.  I invested money in your game because i enjoyed the product.  Perhaps my time with the game has come to a close.  Certainly, I have invested more money in this game than any triple-A title.  My wish would be for you to evaluate who you are willing to lose more; those who want to you to experiment with your own game and find balance where all Frames are viable, or people that are happy with the status quo of two-hour long survivals with Trinity.

I would pay for the option to "upgrade" my base weapon into the new prime or wraith or whatever skin they add. so i don't have to forma the new one 6 times.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I would pay for the option to "upgrade" my base weapon into the new prime or wraith or whatever skin they add. so i don't have to forma the new one 6 times.

Excellent solution.

Edited April 24, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Varzy]

DE has made major revamps and experiments to the game system, though. It plays a lot different as compared to even a few months ago. I think you're underestimating  the amount of consideration and discussion that must go into the design process. 

[Shinobi-kun]

@Irrelevance.

I would like to know if the devs are eating right. Because I want to buy cosmetics with credits. Other companies made it, why can't DE?

[Monolake]

Balancing the game means improving it for everyone because ultimately it increases the variety - more interesting game.

 

Here is a small problem with Warframe:  you cant sell power and keep it beta at the same time. Beta means constant changes to improve the balance, but when you sell items then nerf them, you only upset the players and ruin their trust - they would not buy anything next time.

 

But many companies are doing this, LoL and Planetside 2 as examples of games selling power then changing the balance (Im sure there are many more)

Edited April 24, 2014 by Monolake

[Arlayn]

Beta is beta.

 

When i pay for plat, its because i got a discount, but also because i want to see what happens next.

Same deal here...

 

 

 , you should invest within reason, and not spend 1000s of platinum on some gun or mod and expect DE to never change it just to be fair to you.

True but sometimes DE goes back, and ends up buffing it, or making it cool later on. So keeping weapons, and warframes can be a good idea just to see all their changes over time.

[Ritchel]

why is it still in beta?

 

because nerfing and buffing weapons and frames makes people spend money and time to switch from that newly buffed weapon and forma potato etc.

 

and they tell you its buffed and nerfed because the game is still in beta. they can make an excuse.

 

be wise and be tight on spending, keep weapons. always remember this is beta. 

 

 

 

the longer this game is beta tells me that this game has ..not so good tech staffs. my opinion that is. or the fact that this game has very few staffs. oh well whatevs

Edited April 24, 2014 by Ritchel

[Treebear2]

As someone who has played the game for quite some time and has invested some money here and there for platinum, I honestly look forward to major changes, as I want to see this game get better and improve, even if it takes some time to adapt to. Am I upset if a new mechanic changes the way my loadouts work and make me have to change polarities. Yes of course, but anyone who read the user agreement should know the DE blatantly stated from the beginning that Warframe is a beta and subject to major changes and therefore they shouldn't throw their money around left and right and then complain when DE makes a change that substantially improves the gameplay for the majority.

 

For example, if you're going to spend 400+ platinum on Primed Chamber or a maxed Serration or what have you, you have to recognize that overhauls to the damage system are inevitable and proceed only if you are willing to accept that risk.

 

Is DE's marketing strategy the best? I don't think so. Do they go about implementing all their major changes in the best way possible? Probably not, But Warframe is a WIP and it has been stated that things are always subject to change, so while it is important for players to invest money in order to support the company, you should invest within reason, and not spend 1000s of platinum on some gun or mod and expect DE to never change it just to be fair to you.

 

Perhaps you missed the overall point of the post.  I would rate "miffed" slightly above tepid on a scale of anger.  As I said, Im glad I paid the money I did.  I support products like this in the same way I support musicians; if you make a good product, I pay you. :)

 

The point here is that I want DE to experiment with the design of the game, but that I can understand people's reluctance for change.  The recent dev stream has proven that perhaps they do recognize the concerns of the playerbase that I am a part of.

[Treebear2]

Only skimmed the post because I'm a bad person I guess, but general thoughts:

 

-DE could turn the game into a puzzle platformer right now and it wouldn't bother me. It's beta.

 

-Since it is beta, I'd like to see some more dramatic changes to see how they would affect the game, for better or for worse. No more little baby steps when it comes to things like balance.

 

Throw a monkey wrench into the machine and see what happens, that's what beta is all about, not pandering to the people who throw money at the game. Though I guess that's more of an airy-fairy concept and not a smart thing to do realistically/financially.

 

Whatever happens, I'd still play the game anyway, even when it's a 2D Super Mario clone, if only to stomp on Grineer heads with Banshee lol

 

I wholeheartedly agree, this is what I am looking for.  Drastic changes to the core mechanics of the game to see how things shape up.  If they dont work, thats fine (and Im sure theyll hear about it on the forums) but as long as they try despite those that are deeply entrenched in their particular style of play, Ill be one happy camper.

[Archistopheles]

  My wish would be for you to evaluate who you are willing to lose more; those who want to you to experiment with your own game and find balance where all Frames are viable, or people that are happy with the status quo of two-hour long survivals with Trinity.

 

*slow clap*

 

Yes, let's start threatening DE with our purses. That doesn't scream entitlement.

[Treebear2]

*slow clap*

 

Yes, let's start threatening DE with our purses. That doesn't scream entitlement.

 

Isn't that how the free market works?  Products that are successful are those that are supported with cold hard cash.  How is this a difficult concept to grasp?

[Aercascade]

That is all.

[Paradoxbomb]

Perhaps you missed the overall point of the post.  I would rate "miffed" slightly above tepid on a scale of anger.  As I said, Im glad I paid the money I did.  I support products like this in the same way I support musicians; if you make a good product, I pay you. :)

 

The point here is that I want DE to experiment with the design of the game, but that I can understand people's reluctance for change.  The recent dev stream has proven that perhaps they do recognize the concerns of the playerbase that I am a part of.

 

Well, I was kind of in agreement with you, maybe I just didn't work that little speech right? I'm just saying that while reluctance to change is reasonable since it can potentially turn your builds upside down, it should be expected and therefore you shouldn't invest a gratuitous amount of real world money into something that's clearly broken OP and then act shocked and ripped off when DE balances or overhauls it. Granted DE doesn't always go about balancing these things in the best way, that's something they should work on, but as beta testers we should be more open to massive changes that can greatly improve the game in the long run, even if readjustment will take some time and resources.

 

Maybe I misunderstood you, but that sounds pretty relevant to what you just said.

[Archistopheles]

Isn't that how the free market works?  Products that are successful are those that are supported with cold hard cash.  How is this a difficult concept to grasp?

 

Insulting my ability to grasp a concept implies you are defensive and therefore know why your argument is flawed.