Ketec Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) It allows us to use .. the infestations for longer. sure. but it destroys any kind of potential competition. Up to 3 days of peacetime would allow the controlling alliance to amass insane amounts of credits that no clan/alliance could ever compete with. They have less to repair - less money wasted. They can offer insane battle pay - less to repair. Attacking clan couldn't even dream about providing nay meaningful pay with the funds that only come from the members. Which almost means that once you get to control a node - you will have it permanently. It beats the whole conflict part and competition.90% of clans/alliances will never get a chance to even attempt an attack since its delayed even longer now to try to attack one of the 12 nodes. and.. you didn't even lower the rail health. 75000 points often didn't even reach to 90% within 48 hours - how do you imagine it would be possible within 12 (with only half the playerbase being able to play it - if they even bother)?a clear example at sinai: 20,000cr (For 2,407 missions) vs 69cr (For 0 missions)That's 50m just for battle pay. Name one alliance who can offer competing reward without having previous control of multiple rails? Edited April 24, 2014 by Ketec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpDK Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I prefer fighting the infested, tho with loot tables added to the spectres, I may want to go and see what's up with that. the Rail HP is probably the only problem here. It's too high for 12 hours, meaning that there is probably not a lot of challenge unless the attackers really put their back into it. A large enough alliance shouldn't have any problems running a rail down, but they do so without benefits (as you don't gain battlepay for aiding your own alliance), fighting mostly for hopes of victory. You're also attacking an alliance that takes very good care of their solar rails and will fight you to the death if they have to XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Some kind of incentive to make powergrabs in to the Dark Sector system is necessary. But ultimately longer downtimes are better.Short downtimes mean constant chaos and frustrations with low battlepay, and longer drawn out matches. The 20k is just a brief boost to it carefully managed and jumbled around by the alliance. 5k is a much more accurate depiction of battlepays. Which is a lot less impressive. I was discussing this idea in other threads but here's the idea.Clans embedded in to the system have the tax/credit advantage. Which becomes significant with downtimes. Clans without Dark Sectors/less Dark Sectors needs their own advantage, bonuses for victory in to the system or against worse odds, they have a much higher risk of failure so they need a substantial increase in reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 yeah u get to fight more infested... which isnt bad.. .but it makes the whole rail stuff redundant. It could as well just have it as a new node on starmap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kartumterek Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 another victory for the whiners... they should be their own faction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 i don't mind the shorter conflict... but the peacetime was uncalled for. you would have 12h conflict 24h peace (deploy time). Now you have 12h conflict - up to 72h of peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Yeah, i mentioned this in those update posts. It's went from some people almost not being able to play DS at all cause all of the challenges to now some people almost not being able to set up rails because of the guanranteed peace time plus extra from winning. There are only 2 raisl per sector which means looooong waiting times. On top of that, any clan that wins is going to have a huuuuuuuuge well they can use for battle pay. And a good portion of the population in game doesnt come to the board so all they see is creds for battlepay and go for that. I guess this forces people to form alliances to pool up credits but now all attackers are going to need to have themselves a huge pool but that doesnt guantee anything because the defenders will likely have more to play with anyway. Edited April 24, 2014 by Mak_Gohae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualstar Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) the Rail HP is probably the only problem here. It's too high for 12 hours... I dont think so. The attacking rail at Sinai just got taken down from over 60% in just a couple of hours. Anyway, i do agree it does seem that this will give the current rail holders a significant advantage. We will have to see what DE will do with it next week. Edited April 24, 2014 by Dualstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 This is why I say time, and time again... the same exact thing... Either Faster Solar rail Warfare, or dreaded ownership https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215082-either-faster-solar-rail-warfare-or-dreaded-ownership-of-solar-rails/?hl=%2Bsolar+%2Brails+%2Barlayn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 I dont think so. The attacking rail at Sinai just got taken down from over 60% in just a couple of hours. Anyway, i do agree it does seem that this will give the current rail holders a significant advantage. We will have to see what DE will do with it next week. that was thx to the 20k battle pay they could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Or even these ideas... But a lot of this could be alleviated if a spy, infiltration, and sabotage system was put in place for players to mess with the solar rail before the war takes place, or even put a siphon system in place to steal a portion of the resources the alliance is supposed to get, and if the alliance never notices they can't stop it. Foul play being involved with the solar rail war would be awesome. This... A whole lot of messing around the background would be delightful! and Acceptable! Straight forward battle is getting old. DE needs to give us back door tactics. Sneak tactics. Sabotage tactics. Spying, and infiltrating to set up Siphon systems, and back doors to sneak into the solar rail without paying taxes. Special Mods that allow us to go to Dark Sector and decrease the amount of resources, and credits we give back. Tricky stuff. But seriously Siphoning... that needs to be a thing... Could you imagine how much resources other players could steal from an owned Dark Sector? Heck Clans, and alliances could have a level up system, and skills they could level up, and combine under the alliance from each of the clans. Some clans can be skilled at fortifying, some clans can be skilled at stealing, some clans can be good at sabotage. Make Mods to modify the Clan as a whole, and give it bonuses not just during regular play, but also when going up against a Solar rail. Have mods that help attackers, and mods that help defenders. Have mods for helping clans steal from Dark Sector Taxes. We need more options here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualstar Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 that was thx to the 20k battle pay they could afford. I know. And me making 500k in less than 2 hours was just a coincidence. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kutabare Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Yay, less time for random trolls to force conflict and waste time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babellon Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 It allows us to use .. the infestations for longer. sure. but it destroys any kind of potential competition. Up to 3 days of peacetime would allow the controlling alliance to amass insane amounts of credits that no clan/alliance could ever compete with. They have less to repair - less money wasted. They can offer insane battle pay - less to repair. Attacking clan couldn't even dream about providing nay meaningful pay with the funds that only come from the members. Which almost means that once you get to control a node - you will have it permanently. It beats the whole conflict part and competition. 90% of clans/alliances will never get a chance to even attempt an attack since its delayed even longer now to try to attack one of the 12 nodes. and.. you didn't even lower the rail health. 75000 points often didn't even reach to 90% within 48 hours - how do you imagine it would be possible within 12 (with only half the playerbase being able to play it - if they even bother)? a clear example at sinai: 20,000cr (For 2,407 missions) vs 69cr (For 0 missions) That's 50m just for battle pay. Name one alliance who can offer competing reward without having previous control of multiple rails? well, it also gives other alliances time to amass credits for battle pay, you're only looking at one side of the situation. I, soloing dark sectors, can easily clear 1 mil credits in an hour. an entire clan, can mass many millions, an alliance can seriously put together a solid credit bank if they seriously want to compete. having longer dark sectors helps everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kartumterek Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 well, it also gives other alliances time to amass credits for battle pay, you're only looking at one side of the situation. I, soloing dark sectors, can easily clear 1 mil credits in an hour. an entire clan, can mass many millions, an alliance can seriously put together a solid credit bank if they seriously want to compete. having longer dark sectors helps everyone. why is it then that everytime I do a trade with someone (and I have 17 trades a day) I can count on ONE HAND the number of ppl ive seen with more than 1 mill credits? hell I could drop it to 500k credits and the same number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babellon Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 why is it then that everytime I do a trade with someone (and I have 17 trades a day) I can count on ONE HAND the number of ppl ive seen with more than 1 mill credits? hell I could drop it to 500k credits and the same number You're asking me about other peoples credit amounts and/or motivation to acquire more as though that invalidates the point of my statement. What does that have to do with the point that if people want to collect a large sum of credits from dark sectors to compete they can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSp33d Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I wouldn't be too worried about it. That if there wasn't an alliance with control over about 8 rails and will just get pointlessly stronger in this time period instead of being on edge like they were supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpDK Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) I dont think so. The attacking rail at Sinai just got taken down from over 60% in just a couple of hours. you can't just quote part of a sentence like that, completely ignoring the rest of it. "...unless the attackers really put their back into it." this ^ the defenders have a LOT of active members who can and will breeze through the level guns blazing, quickly and efficiently. I think I myself ran in earlier defenses of Sinai about 10 missions, 5 minutes each, tops. Edited April 24, 2014 by ScorpDK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worira Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 It isn't currently practical for an attacker to try to beat the battle pay of a defender. I'll be interested to see if Eclipse actually lowers their taxes, now that they have a substantially longer period to collect them in between defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 they'll most likely increase them even further.Current system has no competition. It's stale now and sides ain't gonna change. Once you get hold of it - you will make the money off taxes to compete and pay the battle pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpDK Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 they'll most likely increase them even further. Current system has no competition. It's stale now and sides ain't gonna change. Once you get hold of it - you will make the money off taxes to compete and pay the battle pay. nawww, I imagine they'll keep them up where they are for a bit, while they perform repairs, after which they lower them again. Basically, by attacking a rail, any damage you do, everyone will have to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotriusPyrelus Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 that was thx to the 20k battle pay they could afford. ...because they own about a third of the rails... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ex-Gamer- Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 it's because DE is in favor of the bigger alliances.. some ppl don't care about the players, just the network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megakruemel Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I am starting to dislike eclipse. First i liked them because they promised low taxes and now @(*()$ 25%!!! SRSLY. Nice going there, keeping your promise and stuff. #sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvid Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) I am starting to dislike eclipse. First i liked them because they promised low taxes and now @(*()$ 25%!!! SRSLY. Nice going there, keeping your promise and stuff. #sarcasm Yet another player failing to understand basic economics. Edit: Once again, I fail to spot the sarcasm. Edit 2: And now I realise that second-guessing myself was a bad idea. Edited April 24, 2014 by Corvid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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