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Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

Oizen

By Oizen,
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OniDax

OniDax

Posted
Posted

Trust me, this guy is just out to create trouble. Every single thread that mentions about Eclipse, this guy will pop up and rant about tax.

 

 

 

I am sorry but what do you mean? I really do not understand this sentence.

 

What I mean is, for my alliance, we sat that looking at the rail so that the moment it ends it's armistice (well, we took our rail before the armistice, so when 24h was up). That's what I mean. First to click lol

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2ply

2ply

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm actually quite sorry people are so... Vocal against Eclipse. But regardless, it was a decision you guys made to attack a 0% rail, and though I supported SoV, I have nothing against you or your Alliance. It simply was that SoV was honourable in their conduct, and have been so for a while. 

 

This is, in fact, how it is intended to be played: Political intrigue. There's more than one currency on the Solar Rails, 2ply: Credits, and popularity. 

 

May fortune favour the bold, Tenno. 

 

The popularity wouldn't be a problem for Eclipse had we not a vocal minority feeding the flames of hate and fear...

 

These discussions prove one thing, we aren't the "BAD GUYS" we just offer a different service..that service being extremely good battle pay...and consistantly OPEN dark sectors as a result.

 

We want to keep the rides open and open them quickly...in the down time our goal is to give you another incentive...TONS of quick credits.

 

Popularity should not be an issue if people could learn to understand and trust us,

 

maintaining excellent battle pay and expanding to other nodes to offer even higher battle pay and expansion cut the taxes down is not easy to do and its not cheap...

 

if we have a room full of poisonous people who don't care about credits, are blood thirsty and frustrated at perhaps failed attempts individually to defeat Eclipse and just want to stop them from growing or succeeding any longer...

 

Well thats a different story all together.

 

That is a propaganda machine with the intent to disinform and sway the public against us...

 

Our stance is to remain as neutral as possible and not get into an ugly display of vulgarity...

 

In doing that we have put ourself in a rather vunerable way.

 

We would all love to openly defend ourself in the popularity circles...but by doing so we only insight more flames...so we have asked all within  our alliance to be calm and try to stay out of it.

 

I am perhaps the only one I know who can discuss this in such a way, without emotion directing my words.

 

We are indeed at a disadvantage in the popularity circles....but we aren't planning on changing our mission statement to cater to the whims of an angry mob.

 

Eclipse choose to attempt to take a zero tax rail, one of the best on the star map, and turn it into another 25% tax credit bank for their ridiculous conquest. Why wait for Eclipse to throw me a bone every now and then when I can consistently run Sechura for 23k? I don't want their "charity."

 

If you actually cared about offering a service to the community, you would have never attacked that rail. Get real.

 

This is again, more blind sided discussion. You choose to believe we aren't attempting to offer a service.

 

Please find me another Alliance that pays out 40K a run for 2000 runs on a more or less regular basis.

 

Our Goal is to provide Quickly Opened Dark sectors for all to enjoy...

 

And to Provide The best battle pay for the tributes asked...We have BOTH

 

Consistently

 

Do you not consider that a type of service that no one has matched yet?

 

If there was such a thing as 'playing the game as intended' when it came to Solar Rails... Taxes would be required and you wouldn't be able to set 0%.

Just saying. You said it yourself; Solar Rails are maintained purely by the community. There is no right or wrong; it's simply what the community wants the most.

If the community doesn't like taxes, you obviously have more people against you. If you boost your taxes, you have even more people against you.

If you attack a rail that the majority of people like, you're going to get even more hate.

It's like stepping into an ant hill and complaining when an army of ants come to bite your shins off; what did you expect to happen, really? Pay them to stop?

As I said- I don't give two S#&$s about credits in Dark Sectors. I like them for EXP. But I am in the minority I believe. But even I know how strongly the majority feel about credit per DS mission, rather than credits per conflict.

 

You are correct, the option for 0% taxes is there, and we intend to USE that option as soon as we can afford to..

 

If we do that at this current junction in time we would surely fail in our quest to offer Quickly opened dark sectors and the best battle pay inbetween to fuel that quickly opened dark sector...

 

You also bring up the point that people don't like taxes, so they choose to go against us...again you are correct.

 

I think the problem here, again as I have stated there is a vocal minority...a poisonous bunch against Eclipse..they spread hate, fear, and sheer pandamonium..

 

They have worked very hard to train the public to dislike taxes.

 

What most fail to realize this this is a game, and the taxes in Warframe are NOTHING like the taxes in real life.

 

All the credits you give as tribute...go directly back into the community at some point in time enhancing everyone in the entire game.

 

Consider your future recuitment efforts, your dojos..your alliances...

 

New players to the game may need some really fast credits to fusion a Serration MOD up..so that they can be a better candidate for YOUR clan in competitions...

 

By understanding this saying you may understand our mission statement.

 

'Whats good for the Goose, is good for the gander'

 

 

 

FOR all those who want a more detailed discription of our mission statement...or at least to get a better idea of why tributes are NOT bad...and potentially a BOON to all in Warframe, please read this post below.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/224026-70-minutes-in-gabii-ceres-dark-sector-survival/?p=2594815

 

This one is elaborated: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/224026-70-minutes-in-gabii-ceres-dark-sector-survival/?p=2594887

 

Thank you.

Edited by 2ply
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Cpl_Facehugger

Cpl_Facehugger

Posted
Posted (edited)

This thread should be merged, but it doesn't take 25% tax to repair the rails. For Eclipse's 8 rails, max repair cost would be 250k credits per rail. That's 2 million credits. Eclipse definitely takes in much more than that.

Is this based on what SoV's warlord said? Because SoV is a clan, not an alliance, and I wouldn't put it past DE to make rail repair costs scale upwards based on alliance size.

Edited by Cpl_Facehugger
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2ply

2ply

Posted
Posted

I know I can run a contested rail with my best volt build in about 1 minute if all goes well in the right group.

 

Solo I can finish a contested rail in about 2-3 minutes depending on the tileset.

 

Given Eclipse can still afford to pay 40k per run in the future, or potentially more given they aren't constantly bombarded by the angry mobs...

 

The community could easily make double or tripple that 40k in the same 5 minute time span.

 

And if there are those who cannot always get the time to run the rails when the battle pay is 40K....you know the casuals who would prefer no tax at all...

 

Consider your friends, your clan mates...money that can be made around the clock to support your dojos, your alliances...your own personal credit supply.

 

'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'.

 

https://answers.yaho...22140613AAchKre

 

Basically consider others in game, in your clans and alliances...they can benefit even when you may not be able to.

 

The entire community as a whole could use some really fast credits to improve overall.

 

New players in need of credits for fusion...decorations in your dojo...your own battle pay if you decide to put up a rail...

 

The higher the battle pay the better...

 

But this is not possible without one of two things...

 

Either the proper tributes on a few nodes

 

or

 

1 source (alliance)  holding many nodes..

 

Think of it like this, 8 small buckets can collect a good deal of rain..

 

One very large bucket can collect more than the 8 smaller ones...

 

The more property a single Alliance/Clan owns the less they would need for higher tributes

 

to offer the community unusually HIGH battle pay.

 

This is good for everyone..no matter if you can benefit from it right away because a new player at some later point who might become one of your clan mates might be able to now...or later.

 

Its just an eruption of fast credits into the community.

 

'Whats good for the goose is good for the gander'

 

 

7029M29.jpg

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Triburos

Triburos

Posted
Posted (edited)
-snip-

And that's all fine.

But here's the thing; sometimes popularity beats payment, no matter if said popularity is contributed via propaganda, or from just natural, majority oppinion.

Weither you think that spreading the idea to pubs that taxes are bad or saying that the public is misunderstanding taxes is irrelevant. Because really; taxes aren't as bad as what people are making them out to be.

But, when you get right down to it: while taxes aren't bad, they sure as hell have alot more cons than they do pros, and that makes it easier for the public to understand. If you say "NO TAXES", that's an automatic green light in the head of the vast majority. So taxing clans are naturally at a disadvantage even without 'propaganda'

That's not to say no taxes don't have their downsides. If you're running upwards to 9 rails, you obviously can't afford no tax rates. I understand why Eclipse is using taxes in this case. 250k per rail in a worst case scenario is still alot if you multiply that by any number greater than 5.

But again, that minority you speak of isn't so minor. Especially when they can take down an Eclipse rail. I understand that you believe that taxes are being shined in a harsh light, but you don't need to look at the issue in a logical standpoint.

You need to look at it from the public's stand point. Really, think about it for a moment; was it such a great idea to attack a clan that has been incredibly nice to said public, as well as being able to support their rail with 0% taxes?

Eclipse may own many rails, but ironically that's also their problem. Too many rails, and you're going to have to fight against public, majority opinion of "taxes are bad", or try to shift the bad light away from taxes.

And really, I was defending taxes in some past posts of mine. So don't take this as me white knighting for 0% taxes or anything. Just trying to say that the minority you're referring to, isn't so minor anymore. And you have to treat them like an actual threat now.

Edited by Triburos
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Cpl_Facehugger

Cpl_Facehugger

Posted
Posted

Greetings Tenno,

 

You are correct, the best estimate I have currently is that each 1% of damage is repaired for 2,500 credits. So, a near complete rail repair would run just shy of 250K.

 

 

Victory to you, Tenno.

 

-Salishaz, Warlord of the Shadows of Vengeance

How large is your clan? Because I totally wouldn't put it past DE to make the costs scale upwards for number of clans/members in an Alliance. I know Eclipse has a bunch of clans and is bumping up against the member cap.

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eksby

eksby

Posted
Posted

Is this based on what SoV's warlord said? Because SoV is a clan, not an alliance, and I wouldn't put it past DE to make rail repair costs scale upwards based on alliance size.

I'm pretty sure DE said clearly that costs for the Solar Rails are the same, no matter who builds them. Hence why they encouraged small clans to join Alliances.

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eksby

eksby

Posted
Posted (edited)

The construction costs. They didn't say anything about the maintenance costs.

While this is true, I would assume it to be the same. Once again why DE encouraged smaller clans to join Alliances. 

 

How about instead of us speculating, someone can come in and actually tell us?

Edited by kuliise
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Calayne

Calayne

Posted
Posted

And that's all fine.

But here's the thing; sometimes popularity beats payment, no matter if said popularity is contributed via propaganda, or from just natural, majority oppinion.

Weither you think that spreading the idea to pubs that taxes are bad or saying that the public is misunderstanding taxes is irrelevant. Because really; taxes aren't as bad as what people are making them out to be.

But, when you get right down to it: while taxes aren't bad, they sure as hell have alot more cons than they do pros, and that makes it easier for the public to understand. If you say "NO TAXES", that's an automatic green light in the head of the vast majority. So taxing clans are naturally at a disadvantage even without 'propaganda'

That's not to say no taxes don't have their downsides. If you're running upwards to 9 rails, you obviously can't afford no tax rates. I understand why Eclipse is using taxes in this case. 250k per rail in a worst case scenario is still alot if you multiply that by any number greater than 5.

But again, that minority you speak of isn't so minor. Especially when they can take down an Eclipse rail. I understand that you believe that taxes are being shined in a harsh light, but you don't need to look at the issue in a logical standpoint.

You need to look at it from the public's stand point. Really, think about it for a moment; was it such a great idea to attack a clan that has been incredibly nice to said public, as well as being able to support their rail with 0% taxes?

Eclipse may own many rails, but ironically that's also their problem. Too many rails, and you're going to have to fight against public, majority opinion of "taxes are bad", or try to shift the bad light away from taxes.

And really, I was defending taxes in some past posts of mine. So don't take this as me white knighting for 0% taxes or anything. Just trying to say that the minority you're referring to, isn't so minor anymore. And you have to treat them like an actual threat now.

 

Well said. 

 

I actually defend both taxed and untaxed rails, but it depends entirely on the situation. Both have their purpose in the solar rails. Both are good. But one cannot dominate over the other. This is, strangely, the balance we have to strike. As it is now, it's not too bad. We need to have portions where the players are comfortable in defending a tax-free rail for absolutely no battle pay. Then, there are less popular areas, where the Battle Pay comes in great handy, in this case, provided for by Eclipse and their taxes.

 

The repair costs aren't the only costs an Alliance incurs, mind you: Battle pay is a huge portion of that, and would probably outdo the repair by far. 

 

Eclipse does its role well. But you cannot compare them and SoV. They play completely different roles. SoV holds a very popular location, and are trustworthy. So they get what they get because in a sense, they deserve it. 

 

However, in all other parts of the solar system, no one can contest Eclipse, because that's how strong they are, and for good reason. The Tax makes sure we get the rails open as fast as possible. There are a lot of dedicated people there as well. Don't hate on them just because you don't like the tax: In the long run, I do think there's a benefit for it. 

 

Imagine if the whole solar system had tax-free solar rails, and no one offered battle pay anymore. The Sechura rail is an anomaly, in the sense that it has a very strong player support as well as a popular location. Everywhere else, battle pay is still the main motivation to grind. 

 

Therefore, like salt and pepper, both are necessary, yet having too much of either will make your roast chicken breast with a delicious side of mashed potato and roast vegetable slightly less palatable than it should be. 

 

Balance, Tenno. A purpose for everything. SoV knows its purpose; Eclipse knows theirs. What happens, happens. The cause and effect are known. Let all animosity rest. This is a learning experience for everyone. Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement, fellow Tenno. Seriously. Having only free rails or tax rails will be detrimental. Accept that there is a need for the two. 

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