Ability Nerfs/changes: Radial Disarm, Hysteria, Shield Polarize, Tentacle Swarm

[Loswaith]

You want to nerf these abilities yet how often do you really see any of these frames compared to some of the others?

 

Look at what frames get played the most, in the majority of cases (outside of truely organised groups) they will be the one's with the most power.

 

The simple fact of the matter is every power you mentioned gets benefits of corrupted mods without the downside (of that specific mod) having any effect on the same power, so obviously if used with the corrupted mod (presuming the player even has them) is when it hits the levels of being useful or even quite strong.

 

If you were to go about with some of these chages too, it would make those frames considerably weaker for newer players as well that already have trouble playing the game due to the lack of other mods as well.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Loswaith

[Yopee]

The simple fact of the matter is every power you mentioned gets benefits of corrupted mods without the downside (of that specific mod) having any effect on the same power, so obviously if used with the corrupted mod (presuming the player even has them) is when it hits the levels of being useful or even quite strong.

Exactly. That's why I want the abilities to either be affected by the corrupted mods' downside or the abilities function in a different way.

 

This is why I hesitate to suggest nerfing Shield Polarize. It is already affected by efficiency, strength, range and is only useful against two out of four factions. Very situational.

Problem #1: However, against those two factions, it's like a second Molecular Prime explosion that scales with enemy shields and recharges your own shield.

Problem #2: Or it does no damage at all against the other two factions and is relegated to recharging shields. This just urges new players to not equip this ability when fighting grineer/infested because most new players do not know to use Shield Polarize defensively. Also, disruptor and toxic ancients have their ways of dealing with shields which further discourages the use of Shield Polarize which leads to a whole different point about enemy variety.

 

Being affected by corrupted mods deals with problem #1 but changing the function can deal with both problems. Rather than being nerfed, Shield Polarize should be changed.

 

If you were to go about with some of these chages too, it would make those frames considerably weaker for newer players as well that already have trouble playing the game due to the lack of other mods as well.

This is a very good point that I completely agree with. I do not want Excal, Loki, and maybe not Mag to be starter frames. I'd much rather more beginner-friendly frames (can perform quite well offensively and defensively without the need of hard to find mods) actually be starter frames. But again, leading to another point and going off topic.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Yopee

[Cwierz]

I disagree with some of these.

I think others should be done much differently and better.

I think some are justified.

 

Why is vauban vs infested not mentioned here? We will never know.

[Llyssa]

I fail to see how any of these would rank in your mind as a priority. "But gosh, dey so stronk"... they're almost all non-damage skills that need to make up for the fact they are, in fact, non-damage skills.

 

There's no actual point to nerfing them. "Gosh, it makes it so easy"... maybe? Easier than, say, Rhino stomp+iron skin+roar, all of which can also be spammed infinitely, give much more devastating effects than these, yet all of which are ignored on your list.

 

The game should be balanced to bring all frames in to equal power, and trying to scale back ones that aren't actually all that strong to begin with while ignore others completely is completely pointless.

 

Plus, you're looking at these from "WHAT IF I MAX THEM ALL!".

 

What if you don't? What if you actually use one of the literally millions of other combinations of mods? What if you don't even own the mods needed for this argument to even be a fanciful idea to begin with? Then what? You get nerfed hard for no reason?

 

This doesn't make any sense.

[Nox-Lamina]

Radial Blind

 

Not blinding enemies behind walls would be fine, no other changes needed

 

Possible enemy buffs:

1 When you're blinded terribly unless your braincells were fried too you aren't going to be moving for fear of bumping into something, and then you'd probably lose your balance while fumbling about stunned

 

2 There is no point making an enemy that will remove negative status effects, we will shoot it and then recast the negative status effect. This applies for all cases of this suggestion

 

Radial Disarm

No, the groundslam is cheap and shouldn't exist in the first place. Also I am not believing that Loki can't permanently jam the significantly less advanced grineer/corpus weapons or just jam them in such a way that someone has to sit down and tinker with it to fix.

 

Invisibility, Smoke Screen

Possible ability nerfs:

1. No No No. You think that you see the "cloak" of your warframe because that is the accurate representation of what  cloaking really is? It is not the case unless the warframes were made by idiots, that is a visual indicator for the player. Do you know what the enemy sees? THIN AIR, as in they should be incapable of perceiving them visually or audibly because Ash and Loki operators should know to be as silent as possible given that is the only way to notice them.

2. Melee damage bonus scales with power strength. Fine

 

Possible enemy buffs:

1.  Unless there is still the visual muzzle-flash I don't think that any of the enemies can use their hearing in order to perfectly lock onto where someone is.

 

2 Same problem with negative enemies. Ash/Loki sees enemy, headshots enemy re-cloaks you have just made them waste energy for no good reason

 

 

Hysteria - Don't use/understand that well can't comment 

Energy Vampire - Can't comment , don't use or understand that well

Blessing - Ugh

 

Shield Polarize

I hesitate a bit at nerfing Shield Polarize because it is only effective against Corpus/Corrupted.- Then don't 

 

Possible ability nerfs/changes:

Will have two behaviours:

1.  You are missing the point entirely, reduce the damage slightly if anything

2. If no shielded enemy is in range, team and pod's shields are recharged. - Still missing the point

 If activated while teammate is under magnetic status, teammate only loses half of current energy- Fine

 

TL;DR Go away

[RealPandemonium]

These things can be looked at after DE decides what direction they're gonna take weapon and enemy scaling in.  

Edited May 1, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[CapedBaldy]

Nitpicking and nerfing individual skills is one of the worst things you can do, which from what I see, is what you are doing. You have to look at the frame as a whole before doing so.

[Yopee]

Really appreciate your comment. First one from a technical detail perspective.

Possible enemy buffs:

1 When you're blinded terribly unless your braincells were fried too you aren't going to be moving for fear of bumping into something, and then you'd probably lose your balance while fumbling about stunned

 

2 There is no point making an enemy that will remove negative status effects, we will shoot it and then recast the negative status effect. This applies for all cases of this suggestion

1 I can definitely agree with this for non-infested melee units but for infested and for ranged units, I think they would still blindly attack in the general direction of where Excal and teammates are based on sound.

2 Introduce enemy leader that locks out one of your powers at random for a short period of time? This would actually discourage one trick pony builds as well.

Same for Invisibility/Smoke Screen.

 

1.  You are missing the point entirely, reduce the damage slightly if anything

2. If no shielded enemy is in range, team and pod's shields are recharged. - Still missing the point

 If activated while teammate is under magnetic status, teammate only loses half of current energy- Fine

Yeah, you're right. The bigger issue is Shield Polarize destroys everything first. Recharging your shields is an afterthought.

 

Would the magnetic status thing make you bring Shield Polarize to an infested mission?

[Rhiasu]

Hysteria and blessing's invincibility is definitely something that needs to be reworked/rebalanced.

 

A lot of these CC/stealth skills can be balanced out making them duration capped like how chaos works or even adding cooldowns to them. I don't get why DE does not consider it because it brings more balancing options.

[Thirsty_Pickle]

No.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thirsty_Pickle

[Nox-Lamina]

Really appreciate your comment. First one from a technical detail perspective.

1 I can definitely agree with this for non-infested melee units but for infested and for ranged units, I think they would still blindly attack in the general direction of where Excal and teammates are based on sound.

2 Introduce enemy leader that locks out one of your powers at random for a short period of time? This would actually discourage one trick pony builds as well.

Same for Invisibility/Smoke Screen.

 

Yeah, you're right. The bigger issue is Shield Polarize destroys everything first. Recharging your shields is an afterthought.

 

Would the magnetic status thing make you bring Shield Polarize to an infested mission?

 

Even if the infested blindly charge it wouldn't be surprising if the charge turned into 21 charger pileup

 

No, locking out our powers is just taking away player agency, stalker being capable of doing it is barely tolerable.  If  disabling our powers is to be a thing, it has to be done in a way that is avoidable. Not like stalker reaching into the back of your warframe and hitting the off button from half the room away.

 

No, there isn't much point to bringing a Mag to Infested, there is no advantage to it.

[Phobose]

Yeah..... I'm going to have to disagree on all of them, cept maybe Blessing cuz 4 for unkillable is lame, boring and just straight up not fun.

[gnat6]

Yeah..... I'm going to have to disagree on all of them, cept maybe Blessing cuz 4 for unkillable is lame, boring and just straight up not fun.

Well blessing is getting changed anyways so I suggest we go with

to everything in the original post.

[Oriviagene]

Sure I do love nerf...

Nerf it all

NEver neRF

Get on with it

[low1991]

As someone who has every frame on ps4 i can say with certainty that radial disarm is cheap, afterall the bombard and heavy gunner are turned to butchers... It's just too much and perhaps... Too useful yes i said that too loki players...

i'm sure even with radial disarm, those bombard & heavy gunners still do melee damage based on their levels.

 

 

Sure I do love nerf...

Nerf it all

NEver neRF

Get on with it

 

NERF EVERY FRAME TO THE GROUND!! REMOVE ALL ABILITY!!

REMOVE ALL GUNS, SECONDARY, MELEE!!!

FIGHT WITH YOUR FIST!!

oh wait, can we fight with our bare fist in the first place?

Edited May 1, 2014 by low1991

[existentialvoid]

so what you are saying is: the game is "boring easy" right?

 

Srsly, if you want to play a nurfed frame, go play Banshee - enjoy your challenge.

Edited May 1, 2014 by existentialvoid

[Doughalo2]

Fully agreed, and while you're add it give Rhino another 15% sprint speed boost and M-Prime a larger chain reaction AoE.

Ahhahahhaha

i only like the trinity idea for blessing the rest im sorry but NOOoOooo

[Arunafeltz]

Someone kill me now

[fatpig84]

What nerfing Radial Blind AND Radial Disarm ?

These skills are the only saving grace for Excal and Loki (his main useful team fight skill).

Never mind that Radial Blind while spammable requires Excal to use silent weapons otherwise he will still get attacked.

 

A disarm only stop Napalms and co from wrecking your face with their heavy weapons, you still have a bullet sponge to kill and that prod still hurts like a ton.

Edited May 1, 2014 by fatpig84

[Anarook]

Yeah um... it should be obvious just form what you typed but.. it's the mods that are problematic not the powers themselves - you're targeting the wrong thing ma'cherie.

[Tsukinoki]

All i see here is that it will be taking frames who only have one or two good abilities and then breaking it, essentially making those frames completely useless and offering nothing in the way of improving them so that they aren't one trick ponies.

Instead of one trick ponies all OP wants is no trick ponies who are useless at nearly all levels of play and for reall no reason.

If he was actually interested in balance he would offer buffs to frames that he is stripping away their limited use.

The *only* reason an excalibur is useful in any way near endgame is for RB. Remove that and he is left with *nothing*. If you want to stop a frame from being a one trick pony fix that by first improving the rest of their kit. Only then worry about nerfing 'op' abilities that aren't that op.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[tris1]

Anyone touches my Excalibur prime im going to kill them he has only one viable skill fix his other skills then I would say you got a 1percent to nerf.people like you have already ruined frost who is now rubbish to my stands and still waiting for his supposied fix so anyone touch Excalibur I will destroy you and de

[FoxFX]

I'm only going to take each of Yopee's suggestions one skill @ a time and I'm going to be serious about this:

 

 

Radial Blind

 

The skill's description merely states that its an AOE skill that temporarily removes the enemy's ability to see. With that in mind, it should NOT also render the enemy's ability to hear. Which is one of the reason Noise Reduction Mods and Banshee's Silence are there for, but as of now that is not the case. Radial Blind practically dumbs down the enemies.

 

If I were blinded by something, the first reaction would be to rely on other senses to fight. For that reason, I agree that the enemy AI should be adjusted to show some retaliation when blinded.

 

Radial Disarm

 

Loki is more of a stealth-control oriented frame, which is why his vitality is relatively weaker than Ash's. That in mind, the ability to remove practically all gun attacks within an area seems to be a bit of a balance for Loki. Having a duration for how long the enemy will be disarmed might be a bit too much.

 

Invisibility/Smoke Screen

 

Invisibility is fine as it is, but Smoke Screen deserves some mean of a buff, especially that it is used by Ash which many players find that frame to be lacking any means of support.

 

Invisibility should be the stealth skill that is used by a solo player.

 

Smoke Screen should be more of a team support skill that actually can make other nearby Tenno invisible as well.

 

Hysteria

 

I can understand why you would want the lifesteal of Hysteria to be removed now that we have Melee 2.0, but I think adding the Chaneling system to Hysteria would require a lot of energy to make Hysteria useful if your suggestion came to light.

 

Energy Vampire

 

Honestly have only used Energy Vampire a few times, but I never have experienced much change to energy gains with it. I feel Energy Vampire is fine as it is.

 

Blessing

 

This skill is what some players I've gone with believe is what makes Trinity almost an easy mode for this game. However, in my mind, a Warframe's 4th skill is what I believe to be the "panic attack."

 

Here is one excerpt I have found under the Warframe Wiki:

 

the problem with Blessing is that it's simply too good when compared with all the other protective abilities. one has to consider that on top of fully restoring your teammates and giving them 10 seconds (28 with max power duration) of invincibility no matter where they are, it has pretty much no downsides at all, so while Snow Globe obliges you to sit in one spot and can block allied damage, Hysteria stucks you in melee mode so you'll have a harder time taking out distant targets, Iron Skin doesn't scale into the late game and Invisibility / Smoke Screen won't protect you from AoE and stray bullets, Blessing, on the other hand, allows you to achieve ANYTHING under it's effects. and let's not forget how easily can Trinity restore her own energy with Energy Vampire so she can spam it non-stop (with the help of some power efficiency, of course).

i think simply cutting the invincibility time in half would be a nice way to balance Blessing, 5 seconds are enough to revive a teammate or momentarily leave your cover to take care of a problematic target but you'll have to play more carefully instead of being able to run around with little to no punishment.

 

I can only agree that Blessing should be dumbed down a bit.

 

Shield Polarization

 

I honestly don't think that this skill needs that much of a nerf; its a legit support skill to be honest especially since it can save nearby teammates and restores their shields too. With that in mind, I think that Shield Polarization should maybe cost a bit more energy to use. It feels more like a panic-button-type skill to use.

 

Overall, I feel that some abilities kinda need to be taken in consideration, but also I feel that DE should make enemies that punish abilities like these.

[tris1]

I'm only going to take each of Yopee's suggestions one skill @ a time and I'm going to be serious about this:

 

 

Radial Blind

 

The skill's description merely states that its an AOE skill that temporarily removes the enemy's ability to see. With that in mind, it should NOT also render the enemy's ability to hear. Which is one of the reason Noise Reduction Mods and Banshee's Silence are there for, but as of now that is not the case. Radial Blind practically dumbs down the enemies.

 

If I were blinded by something, the first reaction would be to rely on other senses to fight. For that reason, I agree that the enemy AI should be adjusted to show some retaliation when blinded.

 

Radial Disarm

 

Loki is more of a stealth-control oriented frame, which is why his vitality is relatively weaker than Ash's. That in mind, the ability to remove practically all gun attacks within an area seems to be a bit of a balance for Loki. Having a duration for how long the enemy will be disarmed might be a bit too much.

 

Invisibility/Smoke Screen

 

Invisibility is fine as it is, but Smoke Screen deserves some mean of a buff, especially that it is used by Ash which many players find that frame to be lacking any means of support.

 

Invisibility should be the stealth skill that is used by a solo player.

 

Smoke Screen should be more of a team support skill that actually can make other nearby Tenno invisible as well.

 

Hysteria

 

I can understand why you would want the lifesteal of Hysteria to be removed now that we have Melee 2.0, but I think adding the Chaneling system to Hysteria would require a lot of energy to make Hysteria useful if your suggestion came to light.

 

Energy Vampire

 

Honestly have only used Energy Vampire a few times, but I never have experienced much change to energy gains with it. I feel Energy Vampire is fine as it is.

 

Blessing

 

This skill is what some players I've gone with believe is what makes Trinity almost an easy mode for this game. However, in my mind, a Warframe's 4th skill is what I believe to be the "panic attack."

 

Here is one excerpt I have found under the Warframe Wiki:

 

the problem with Blessing is that it's simply too good when compared with all the other protective abilities. one has to consider that on top of fully restoring your teammates and giving them 10 seconds (28 with max power duration) of invincibility no matter where they are, it has pretty much no downsides at all, so while Snow Globe obliges you to sit in one spot and can block allied damage, Hysteria stucks you in melee mode so you'll have a harder time taking out distant targets, Iron Skin doesn't scale into the late game and Invisibility / Smoke Screen won't protect you from AoE and stray bullets, Blessing, on the other hand, allows you to achieve ANYTHING under it's effects. and let's not forget how easily can Trinity restore her own energy with Energy Vampire so she can spam it non-stop (with the help of some power efficiency, of course).

i think simply cutting the invincibility time in half would be a nice way to balance Blessing, 5 seconds are enough to revive a teammate or momentarily leave your cover to take care of a problematic target but you'll have to play more carefully instead of being able to run around with little to no punishment.

 

I can only agree that Blessing should be dumbed down a bit.

 

Shield Polarization

 

I honestly don't think that this skill needs that much of a nerf; its a legit support skill to be honest especially since it can save nearby teammates and restores their shields too. With that in mind, I think that Shield Polarization should maybe cost a bit more energy to use. It feels more like a panic-button-type skill to use.

 

Overall, I feel that some abilities kinda need to be taken in consideration, but also I feel that DE should make enemies that punish abilities like these.

what I don't understand is that invisibility is fine but you want radial blind to be fixed so that ai can still shoot you. but when invisibility can move about undetected if moded right for about 60 seconds and can not be seen for any distance while radial blind you can still be shot from a distance

[Yopee]

Radial Disarm

Loki (his main useful team fight skill).

Depending on the map, Decoy may work better. Radial Disarm can interfere with Decoy's effectiveness.

 

Radial Blind while spammable requires Excal to use silent weapons otherwise he will still get attacked.

That's what I want to see. Melee should still work fine. Also, all of the silent weapon mods are completely useless right now. Banshee's Silence can also be useful here.