De. You Can't Ignore This Any More. (Penta, Ogris And Angstrum Feedback)

[mistopportunity]

Say they gave the ogris 50 max ammo, you'd still have near infinite ammo, thats just how that gun works it has really good ammo economy because it kills lots of things with such little ammo, same with things like the latron. Now take a gun like a dual pistol they have lots of ammo but go through it extremely quickly. 

[mistopportunity]

totally realistic having 500 rockets with you while only 5 spare magazines for the supra

You're not carrying rockets, you're carrying energy in your warfarme that the gun converts to ammo :D

[Zurakci]

I do have to agree. The Penta, Ogris and Angstrum needs an ammo nerf. One of my "Friends" (more like annoying person that doesnt play the game for fun) always wants help on T3 defence missions, for then just have 1 of these weapons with him... Now.. Ogris and the Angstrum. Its annoying, cause 1: You can spam these weapons. 2: they have infinite ammo. There is no need to think with these weapons cause the only regrets you can make with them is shooting too close to yourself. 3: they make the game less fun. I like the idea of them, but they are seriously too broken for the game to have fun with.

[ValhaHazred]

Say they gave the ogris 50 max ammo, you'd still have near infinite ammo, thats just how that gun works it has really good ammo economy because it kills lots of things with such little ammo, same with things like the latron. Now take a gun like a dual pistol they have lots of ammo but go through it extremely quickly. 

 

Honestly if I was in charge of ammo the Launchers would have 30. It's enough to be useful but you'd have to actively look for ammo or bring refills.

 

Then again I'd drop the max ammo for everything but light automatics like Grakata and the machine pistols. It would give added incentive to use melee, use ammo restores, bring two ranged weapons or be careful with your shots.

 

Each weapon would have it's own max ammo and primary ammo would be a generic pickup instead of split between categories.

[mistopportunity]

 It would give added incentive to use melee

I don't think there main goal of melee 2.0 was so that you'd use it more, most people did, but i think it was added so you can have more of a variety for ways of killing things.

[Azawarau]

Halo offers 2 more in terms of primary weapon use though ._.

 

The damage could go down... the ammo supply definitely needs to go down

 

But not to 10

 

The weapons would be beyond impractical for anything

[Eyeless]

Why are we worried about ammo with these weapons when their usage requires so much more awareness and skill to use despite quite a few situational weaknesses that leave them lacking when compared to other weapons out there under quite a few circumstances? 

 

Plenty of other weapons when used right and aimed smartly don't run out of ammo either. 

 

I for one don't want to need a damn Rifle/Pistol mutation mod on my Ogris or Angstrum. Nothing says fun like further limiting our already scant modding options right? Right? 

 

Yes, this is an issue when high powered explosive weapons have nigh unlimited ammo, but these weapons will kill you if used in the wrong situation or your aim is slightly off in closer contact situations. You can't use these when crowded up unless your name is Vauban in most tight situations.

 

I guess in short, I feel that there's more pending issues that need addressed. Frame tuning, fleshing out shallow game mechanics, addressing harsh RNG, new player experience... 

 

I've never had an issue with other players bringing any of these three weapons into my games, the only thing its ever ruined for me is Infested Defense, which is already quite boring as it is.  

 

 

Honestly if I was in charge of ammo the Launchers would have 30. It's enough to be useful but you'd have to actively look for ammo or bring refills.

 

Then again I'd drop the max ammo for everything but light automatics like Grakata and the machine pistols. It would give added incentive to use melee, use ammo restores, bring two ranged weapons or be careful with your shots.

 

Each weapon would have it's own max ammo and primary ammo would be a generic pickup instead of split between categories.

 

Nothing says fun like making Ammo Mutations and gimpy/slow Ammo/Health restores mandatory. 

 

For one, making ammo restores mandatory would get !@#$ obnoxious and incredibly cumbersome, especially when in a 35 minute high level Survival surrounded by Grineer. 

 

Second, our modding options are limited enough, I die a little inside when a weapon I really like requires me to use an Ammo Mutation mod because the Ammo Refillers are both tedious to make and don't give out enough ammo, and it consumes a valuable mod-slot I could be using to give my weapon some further utility with a nice quality of life mod or another elemental combo/bane mod. 

 

Third, do you like new players? Do you want them to stick with this game despite the atrocious new player experience? They don't have the mods to keep up consistent efficient damage, which wastes enough ammo already. Making everything cater to the style of play you're wanting is going to further gimp the new player experience and make an already unforgiving experience nigh unplayable.

 

They won't have ammo mutations, they're already hard pressed for resources and credits! 

 

Just no! 

Edited May 25, 2014 by Hastur609

[MrCranky_BR]

I say spare ammo should be a weapon-specific stat, and it should be counted in RELOAD units - clips, magazines or whatever.

 

Balance a weapon's spare ammo in accordance with it's other stats: Damage type, clip size, reload times, the works...

 

Make it meaningfull to the gameplay, or get rid of it completely. By the way, when are we getting different ammo mechanics, like self-regenerating batteries and such? I'm surprised there aren't any of those in Warframe's future. (ME3's Particle Rifle... miss ya, old friend.)

 

Ammo 2.0!! There, I said it.

[Noble_Cactus]

I say spare ammo should be a weapon-specific stat, and it should be counted in RELOAD units - clips, magazines or whatever.

 

Balance a weapon's spare ammo in accordance with it's other stats: Damage type, clip size, reload times, the works...

 

Make it meaningfull to the gameplay, or get rid of it completely. By the way, when are we getting different ammo mechanics, like self-regenerating batteries and such? I'm surprised there aren't any of those in Warframe's future. (ME3's Particle Rifle... miss ya, old friend.)

 

Ammo 2.0!! There, I said it.

 

It's been suggested for weapons like the Supra and the Embolist before. Which works because 1. They are ammo hogs and implementing a regenerating clip would still promote careful ammo usage while increasing their longevity, and 2. Supra's "fuel cell" could be a recharging battery, while the Embolist could be brewing more gases within itself while it's recharging.

[ValhaHazred]

 

 

Nothing says fun like making Ammo Mutations and gimpy/slow Ammo/Health restores mandatory. 

 

For one, making ammo restores mandatory would get !@#$ obnoxious and incredibly cumbersome, especially when in a 35 minute high level Survival surrounded by Grineer. 

 

Second, our modding options are limited enough, I die a little inside when a weapon I really like requires me to use an Ammo Mutation mod because the Ammo Refillers are both tedious to make and don't give out enough ammo, and it consumes a valuable mod-slot I could be using to give my weapon some further utility with a nice quality of life mod or another elemental combo/bane mod. 

 

Third, do you like new players? Do you want them to stick with this game despite the atrocious new player experience? They don't have the mods to keep up consistent efficient damage, which wastes enough ammo already. Making everything cater to the style of play you're wanting is going to further gimp the new player experience and make an already unforgiving experience nigh unplayable.

 

They won't have ammo mutations, they're already hard pressed for resources and credits! 

 

Just no! 

 

The main thing to take away from my suggestion is that primary ammo is one pickup. That way ammo you need is always dropping. The only reason to use an ammo restore would be when someone is too stubborn to use melee or their secondary.

 

It wouldn't be as big as you're thinking and some would get buffed. This is what I'd do for each rough category:

 

Launchers: between 50

Bows and snipers: 80

Heavy shotguns (Hek, Tigris): 120

Heavy rifles (Latron, Grinlock, etc.) and medium shotguns (Strun): 150

Auto shotguns (Sobek, Boar): 200

Medium rifles (Hind, Karak, Burston): 300

HMGs (Soma, Gorgon): 500

SMGs and light rifles (Grakata, Braton) and Streamers (Phage, Amprex, Flux): 600

 

Super Heavy Pistols: 50

Heavy pistols (Lex, Stug): 100

Medium pistols (Latron, Bolto, Revolvers): 150

Auto Pistols: 300

 

Obviously I'd do a lot of playtesting, since it looks good to me on paper but I don't know how it would play until I tried it.

[Archistopheles]

totally realistic having 500 rockets with you while only 5 spare magazines for the supra

 

Totally realistic picking up more rockets dropped by enemies that don't shoot rockets through your feet

[Wolfstorm18]

I have to agree its more realistic that they use sniper ammo (like the Miter already does) but I think that they should have their damage and radius of explosion doubled. 

[aa777nx]

Its not blanced cuase u can kill yourself, its balanced because of the low rate of fire from that guns and cause of that low DPS. So they need a hugh ammo pool to be able to compete with other guns.

Who cares about DPS when you can wipe out a crowd of 80+ enemies with a single shot?

[shut]

That's not sniper ammo anymore, as sniper pools have a 72 max.

 

Then give it a different max amount.

It's time DE scrapped the whole poorly-thought-out "consistency" thing with ammo (where the Latron has 540 ammo, and the Gorgon has... 540 ammo) and started using ammo count and ammo recovery as true balancing factors.

[Beas7ie]

Hush, I like my infinite ammo for my Blow S#&$ Up Guns

[Twilight053]

The rocket launchers will be balanced, take my word in it -- It's in DE's board.

[Beas7ie]

The rocket launchers will be balanced, take my word in it -- It's in DE's board.

 

Just so long as they're not nerfed too hard where you can't get any ammo from them.  I don't want them turning into "too awesome to use" in that sure they're powerful but you have so few shots to begin with you don't even use it because you don't want to run out of ammo for when you'll really really need it.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

well i guess...

[Tulzscha]

Thread title edited for clarity.

[[DE]Rebecca]

As more awareness and discussion on this occurs it'll help us prioritize attention.  There a lot of compelling arguments that are being made around "Ammo 2.0", especially in relation to the rocket/grenade weapons ammo amounts. 

[Gryphticon]

No unlimited ammo would ruin the fun :/

[Marthrym]

Could we also talk about all the weapons that run out of ammo in mere seconds? You know... Might be as important, if not more... Just saying (typing?). Or do you also want some kind of "durability bar" for melee weapons, so that they break when you use them too much? sounds fair too, doesn't it? and then a durability for shields. They regen too much, don't you think?

 

Sorry... Didn't mean to insult anyone. It just baffles me that people only look at one side of the problem, and completely ignore/forget the other. again, sorry for the sarcastic tone^^'.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Marthrym

[Llyssa]

I'd note the angstrum can eat ammo very fast with the charge on it, so it probably shouldn't be limited so much.

[Seele]

The mysterious thing is that Grakata has its own uniquely heightened max ammo cap, sans mods.

So they've had the technology all along.

 

I don't get why this has gone on as long as it has, anyway. Explosives should be sorely limited in capacity to either encourage use of an ammo mutation mod or you know, careful timing and tactical execution. And lead hoses like Grakata before them should be able to carry a little more.

 

Ammo carrying capacity should be based on the individual weapon, not the 'category', as I'm sure has been said many times in other words already.

[(PSN)GrandmaKilledU]

Great...first melee2.0 now ammo2.0... what is that going to be "safety bullets"?

but go ahead and make more crappy addons the last one leaving needs to turn off the lights.