Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[Kartumterek]

Do you realize how many people playing this game are within the Mastery 10-15 range? You're talking as if you don't realize. It IS easy. People are doing that kind of thing extremely often.

 

 Mastery is not a good measure of player experience. It is just time spent. You can play a game for months and still make boneheaded decisions extremely often or get killed left and right.

 

 I'm not that far from the Mastery roof myself and in regards to player skill I can't hold a candle to some of the people I know from Warbros.

What other metric is there in our game to gauge the approximate level of skill of the player apart from Mastery? And I don't think that someone in green should downplay the importance of Mastery. A new player might get the wrong impression no?

Mastery is a lot of things apart from leveling gear... from the star chart to challenges and potential Focus use. How many close to MR 16 peeps have completed these? How many new or middle range players? You have to look at the big picture

[Aggh]

What other metric is there in our game to gauge the approximate level of skill of the player apart from Mastery? And I don't think that someone in green should downplay the importance of Mastery. A new player might get the wrong impression no?

Mastery is a lot of things apart from leveling gear... from the star chart to challenges and potential Focus use. How many close to MR 16 peeps have completed these? How many new or middle range players? You have to look at the big picture

 Pffft.  Yeah mastery isn't just gear, it's also finishing the star chart.  Which also isn't anything more than another time suck.  Just because it's the only metric doesn't mean it's a good one.  Plenty of people haven't hit max mastery purely because they got bored with the game because of mastery. What exactly does leveling dual cleavers or a machete or any other number of subpar weapons really say other than the fact that you leveled them up?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Blatantfool]

What other metric is there in our game to gauge the approximate level of skill of the player apart from Mastery? And I don't think that someone in green should downplay the importance of Mastery. A new player might get the wrong impression no?

Mastery is a lot of things apart from leveling gear... from the star chart to challenges and potential Focus use. How many close to MR 16 peeps have completed these? How many new or middle range players? You have to look at the big picture

 

 Easy. You just play with them. If they suck they suck. If they don't suck they don't suck. The most accurate gauge of skill known to man.

 

 As it stands Mastery is an extremely poor gauge of skill. Anyone can eventually reach the Mastery Roof regardless of how bad their reaction time or general mastery of the game is. 

 

 Unless Mastery is somehow changed so that players actually have to play really well to rank up it will never be a gauge of skill.

[.ERO.]

They did in fact say the original founders offer would never return, I remember when people were unsure about it. The info was right there and read as: "Being a Founder has its privileges. Snag exclusive items that will never be available again, PLUS instant access to the closed beta".

 

http://i.neoseeker.com/neo_image/72132/news/0/warframe_founders1.jpg

[Doom_Bunny]

What other metric is there in our game to gauge the approximate level of skill of the player apart from Mastery? And I don't think that someone in green should downplay the importance of Mastery. A new player might get the wrong impression no?

You can't really gauge a player in this game; star chart completion, prime weapons and mastery rank all have short cuts.

 

Mastery Rank: is how many guns you have grinded out to level 30 which can be speed up with boosters and playing in a team. A person who spams can get mastery quicker then a "pro player".

 

Star chart completion: can be sped up by taxies and playing in teams.

 

Prime weapons: they can be traded and bought for practically nothing.

[TC-Guardian]

No one has said that they have to be.  And what exactly is that just reason?  And how on earth did you come to that conclusion?  You really like to say that you have a reason without actually saying what that reason is.  They said founders items would be exclusive.  Nothing more, nothing less.  What you choose to read into that is no ones fault but your own.

 

No, I just don't feel like leaving ignorance and misinformation unopposed.  It'd be a lot more interesting if you weren't repeating the same tired, unsupported arguments that other founders feel the need to keep on trotting out :|

I don't see how we are giving miss information or ignorance, we are voicing our opinion to DE and the rest of the community about the idea of have Dual versions of the founders exclusives, and as you can see, not many Founders like the idea. I think the key thing is, if they do release them the Founders are going to be p*ssed.

I know I personally probably wouldn't have bought the Masters pack if I had known that Dual Skana Prime would be coming to the game for free, and I am sure that there would be a massive quantity of Founders who would be in the same boat, I mean who would pay for something when they can get a better version for free. That is my just reasoning, it would be a betrayal of the trust the people who bought Founders packs if DE did release Dual Versions of the exclusives. Yes you can say that that trust was potentially misguided, but DE aren't as stupid as you think they are, they would have known what they signed up to by making exclusive weapons.

Skana Prime and Lato Prime are very weak, and dual versions wouldn't be that much more powerful. You've already talked about how mastery rank isn't overly important. So the only reason left that people would want them is the look of them. Here in lies the problem, the visual image of the skana prime, lato prime, and excalibur prime are distinct. If people go into a lobby and see a player with this gear they will instantly recognise it.

   They are a symbolic thing which people see and can associate with "That player is a founder, they spent heaps on the game, supported it early on and have been around for a while". If you take that image, those symbols and give them out freely you are taking away from the value of the exclusives to the Founders, making their appearance just normal and removing the "Oohhh Exclusive, that would be cool to have" factor. Taking something we can be proud of and turning it into cheap fodder.

I don't see why people can't leave the only 3 set in stone exclusives to stay exclusive. They have been exclusive since day one.

DE either need to make a post which states whole heartedly that there will be no Skana or Lato Prime other than the founders exclusive, and put it in a sticky. Or give the Founders their own exclusive content which does not effect gameplay and bite the bullet, letting everyone at Skana and Lato Prime. (Though Excalibur prime will be soon to follow)

P.S Last post on this thread, I feel I have long over stayed my welcome and made my point.

[Kartumterek]

You guy always look at things from your own point of view... when the Lotus/Red Veil/the game itself comes out with hardcore 3.0 or super conclave or Focus or whatever, and they want to send in seasoned veterans... are they going to target the MR 3 dude on Venus or the MR 12 dude finishing Pluto and in the void?

Look at it from DEs point of view. Intangibles aside, the only measuring sticks currently available are Conclave and Mastery. I'm betting they chose Conclave for spectres because you can inflate Conclave but not Mastery. Mastery SHOULD of been what they used in my opinion

[Aggh]

You guy always look at things from your own point of view... when the Lotus/Red Veil/the game itself comes out with hardcore 3.0 or super conclave or Focus or whatever, and they want to send in seasoned veterans... are they going to target the MR 3 dude on Venus or the MR 12 dude finishing Pluto and in the void?

Look at it from DEs point of view. Intangibles aside, the only measuring sticks currently available are Conclave and Mastery. I'm betting they chose Conclave for spectres because you can inflate Conclave but not Mastery. Mastery SHOULD of been what they used in my opinion

The early quests/missions in quest/proxy war system and mission specific challenges/achievements would be better.  We've already got plenty of time sucks in the game, making other systems dependent on the biggest time suck in the game just makes things worse. 

 

I don't see why people wouldn't be able to install a lens in the focus system at an early point in the game.  It's just a matter of having weapons/frames at level 30 so ideally they'd actually want to target players early on so they can introduce the system to them before they get too caught up in other parts of the game.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Aggh

[Blatantfool]

You guy always look at things from your own point of view... when the Lotus/Red Veil/the game itself comes out with hardcore 3.0 or super conclave or Focus or whatever, and they want to send in seasoned veterans... are they going to target the MR 3 dude on Venus or the MR 12 dude finishing Pluto and in the void?

Look at it from DEs point of view. Intangibles aside, the only measuring sticks currently available are Conclave and Mastery. I'm betting they chose Conclave for spectres because you can inflate Conclave but not Mastery. Mastery SHOULD of been what they used in my opinion

 

  I can't help but feel you misunderstand what I'm actually attempting to communicate.

 

 

 The only difference between a MR3 player and an MR10+ player is time spent playing. The only thing a player can do to stop leveling entirely is to stop bringing in new weaponry for Mastery points, but if you ARE using a new weapon everything you do in missions earns it XP. You can't just 'not get Affinity' when you play. You always do.

 

 And if you spend enough time cycling through missions over and over to collect mods and credits and mats you will - every time - max out your gear and keep climbing the MR ladder. Whether you are good or not doesn't matter. Only that you've trudged through enough missions to rank up the weapons you use.

 

 Truth is - it is possible for an MR10+ player to just be plain bad at the game. I've met the occasional MR roof derp squadmate. This is because never at any point did how good he was at the game mean a thing when he was farming affinity to max weapons out.

 

 I've also met lower MR players who were highly experienced - because they played up until they had enough MR to craft everything they wanted and then just stopped making new weapons they didn't actually want.

 

 

 So when the Red Veil comes a calling and tell you that they wont accept a Tenno below MR6 you have to realize that all the game is asking is that you've spent at LEAST X amount of time on the game. Whether or not you are good at it isn't being called into question.

 

 So when you imply that it is a valid metric to gauge player skill I can't help but argue that it really isn't. All Mastery is is yet another XP bar to mindlessly grind XP for.

[OniDax]

I don't see how we are giving miss information or ignorance, we are voicing our opinion to DE and the rest of the community about the idea of have Dual versions of the founders exclusives, and as you can see, not many Founders like the idea. I think the key thing is, if they do release them the Founders are going to be p*ssed.

I know I personally probably wouldn't have bought the Masters pack if I had known that Dual Skana Prime would be coming to the game for free, and I am sure that there would be a massive quantity of Founders who would be in the same boat, I mean who would pay for something when they can get a better version for free. That is my just reasoning, it would be a betrayal of the trust the people who bought Founders packs if DE did release Dual Versions of the exclusives. Yes you can say that that trust was potentially misguided, but DE aren't as stupid as you think they are, they would have known what they signed up to by making exclusive weapons.

Skana Prime and Lato Prime are very weak, and dual versions wouldn't be that much more powerful. You've already talked about how mastery rank isn't overly important. So the only reason left that people would want them is the look of them. Here in lies the problem, the visual image of the skana prime, lato prime, and excalibur prime are distinct. If people go into a lobby and see a player with this gear they will instantly recognise it.

   They are a symbolic thing which people see and can associate with "That player is a founder, they spent heaps on the game, supported it early on and have been around for a while". If you take that image, those symbols and give them out freely you are taking away from the value of the exclusives to the Founders, making their appearance just normal and removing the "Oohhh Exclusive, that would be cool to have" factor. Taking something we can be proud of and turning it into cheap fodder.

I don't see why people can't leave the only 3 set in stone exclusives to stay exclusive. They have been exclusive since day one.

DE either need to make a post which states whole heartedly that there will be no Skana or Lato Prime other than the founders exclusive, and put it in a sticky. Or give the Founders their own exclusive content which does not effect gameplay and bite the bullet, letting everyone at Skana and Lato Prime. (Though Excalibur prime will be soon to follow)

P.S Last post on this thread, I feel I have long over stayed my welcome and made my point.

 

Again, this has been suggested before. Why do Founders need to get another exclusive? You're just going to have more people who are jealous of them and who want this new exclusive content. Most people are NOT after mastery. They want what they don't have, and can't stand that there is some item that they don't have. It's the same way with every other exclusive weapon.

 

But I don't even understand why there's a point for discussion here. DE has obviously made up their mind to consider exploiting this loophole/technicality, given that this thread has remained open while any other thread discussion anything even remotely related to Founders stuff has been closed, so I guess it's a moot point. And I'm tired of trying to explain how this suggestion is nothing more than a way to get copy-cat Founders-looking stuff without actually getting Founders stuff. Because next we're going to get a suggestion to have an Excalibur Prime lookalike with a different helmet and slightly different pattern. 

[Mesyra]

But I don't even understand why there's a point for discussion here. DE has obviously made up their mind to consider exploiting this loophole/technicality, given that this thread has remained open while any other thread discussion anything even remotely related to Founders stuff has been closed, so I guess it's a moot point.

De still has not made a firm statement on this, so we can't assume they are even thinking about this.

Wait for a Dev response to the thread first before assuming this please

[dragonkingdx]

Um, it is a good measure. Look at a weapon and see what if any requirements it has. Just because its in the single digits currently doesn't mean its gonna be that way forever.

Gonna be a lot of mad ppl when the Soma Prime Pro Edition comes out and its MR 14 and 10% of the player base can equip it.

And the argument that Mastery is easy to grind fails. If so easy then why aren't ppl doing it? Everything requires farming in this game. You might as well maximize your time and raise Mastery while you farm

 

  I can't help but feel you misunderstand what I'm actually attempting to communicate.

 

 

 The only difference between a MR3 player and an MR10+ player is time spent playing. The only thing a player can do to stop leveling entirely is to stop bringing in new weaponry for Mastery points, but if you ARE using a new weapon everything you do in missions earns it XP. You can't just 'not get Affinity' when you play. You always do.

 

 And if you spend enough time cycling through missions over and over to collect mods and credits and mats you will - every time - max out your gear and keep climbing the MR ladder. Whether you are good or not doesn't matter. Only that you've trudged through enough missions to rank up the weapons you use.

 

 Truth is - it is possible for an MR10+ player to just be plain bad at the game. I've met the occasional MR roof derp squadmate. This is because never at any point did how good he was at the game mean a thing when he was farming affinity to max weapons out.

 

 I've also met lower MR players who were highly experienced - because they played up until they had enough MR to craft everything they wanted and then just stopped making new weapons they didn't actually want.

 

 

 So when the Red Veil comes a calling and tell you that they wont accept a Tenno below MR6 you have to realize that all the game is asking is that you've spent at LEAST X amount of time on the game. Whether or not you are good at it isn't being called into question.

 

 So when you imply that it is a valid metric to gauge player skill I can't help but argue that it really isn't. All Mastery is is yet another XP bar to mindlessly grind XP for.

 

Has seen rank 12-15 not know how to properly handle krill. rank doesn't mean squat vs experience. Point click something dies, simple to understand isnt it? Anyone who makes a weapon correctly by copying a build can do well in the game and breeze through stuff without much of an issue. Put them against something that requires some skill or tactics to beat and they can easily crumble if they are just used to point click die. Just because people have that rank doesn't mean they can actually play well and not make noobish mistakes.

 

Hell its fun to run around with weaker weapons from time to time just to feel that challenge over my already powerful 1 shotting most enemies weapons. (IMO if people want a challenge and thinks things are too easy that would be the absolute best way for a challenge, finding the crappiest weapons and making good use of them chipping away at opponent HP while the crowd grows overtime)

 

 

As for the rest since my quotes are here and there on different pages. Id like to say enough of the BS about putting faith and risk in buying the founders package. Most of you just wanted the stuff that it gave. There is no use denying that. Many of you would have never bought it if it was just asking you to donate and not get anything in return besides a thank you. (as that would have been the literal leap of faith many of you are implying that you took by buying it) You paid that because you liked the game and wanted the items/plat etc. That's no different from what people do now and it is no more of a risk. As a game can end up flopping after a certain amount of time, even if it is popular it can die off/crash/game over in the future. Nothing is ever certain in the industry, paying for anything online has its own risk in it.

[The_Lunatic_]

De still has not made a firm statement on this, so we can't assume they are even thinking about this.

Wait for a Dev response to the thread first before assuming this please

 

Or, you could just use common sense and realise the Devs wouldn't be that $&*&*#(%&.

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

For unlocks you don't need to go past 8.  Same with trades for the most part.  Itll be a while before mastery really means anything and DE undoubtedly has the metrics on players ranks to help figure out how to scale any new system fairly so that high ranks don't have a massive advantage.  Exclusive mastery's advantage dwindles with the addition of new weapons and higher max mastery anyways.

No. You can't tell me what DE will do, you aren't DE. Can you say 100% DE will do this? No.  You can guess and assume but then you have no valid proof or anything. There is no guarantee that in the future there will be no advantage to higher MR

[Trouvo]

I really just dont understand why people want this stuff back so badly, and I am a collection/completionist, yeah it sucks i missed out cuz i couldnt afford it at the time, maybe i could understand if Excal was your absolute fave frame and you wish you had the prime, but hey those founders are what helped really push this game to where it is imo(financially speaking of course).  I say thank you to those who were able to fund more towards founders stuff than I was, Still have my bandanna I got sitting right here!

 

Keep the exclusive stuff exclusive its what helped fund the game we now know and love, let those who could continue to be noticed for having helped do so, and thank them when you see a founder item is what I say!

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

 Mastery rank is not a very good measure of Player experience. It is incredibly easy to XP grind weapons to jump ranks. A player lacking useful experience can reach Mastery 13-14 without ever running into a serious roadblock.

This game needs a proper measure of ability OR something that comes relatively close. Something like a combination of solo mission completion, group mission completion, K/d, etc something like this

 

Every 5000 kills you gets you 10 point

Every solo mission completion you get a half a point 

Every Group mission completion you get a fifth of a point

You also receive 150 points times your K/D ratio

You add up all the points and it gives you a somewhat good measure of player experience (not like level experience but playing experience)

 

Example:

(These are not my stats since im too lazy to look them up)

I've got 70,000 Kills so I would have 140 points from that

I've completed 302 missions solo so I would have 151 points from that

I've completed 981 missions in a group So i would have 196.2 points from that

My K/D ratio is about 1.27 so I would have 190.5

 

My total PE level 677.7

 

This isn't a complete measure of skill but at least its getting there

We will never be able to truly measure skill

[TylerFreeman]

uhhhh....

 

 

yeah, this might be questionable.

 

found it from the video here : 

Edited June 9, 2014 by TylerFreeman

[Darzk]

I... think that the argument is that Founders have a higher mastery cap. Which is really a bullS#&$ point, as there's only a TINY window where the 12k mastery from the Founders items makes a difference in rank, and we're already past it. And all the event weapons would fall into the same problem.

 

And if the discussion isnt anything about that I have no idea how we got into the MR != skill argument.

 

 

 

The Founders weapons are terrible. You don't want them to use them, you want them just to complete a collection? Too bad, just like the event weapons, you weren't playing at the time (and better yet, weren't willing to contribute to DE) so you missed out. If we add a 'similar' weapon to the founder's primes it doesn't solve anything. You still have a gap in your collection, and I still have a gun I can show off just to point out - hey, I was willing to drop a considerable amount of cash (to me) into this game just under the belief that DE is going to keep me interested with content updates. 

 

 

Honestly tho, I rarely use the Founder's Primes. Like I said, they're terrible. So long as I've got my shiny exclusive shoulder patch I'm okay with w.e. I just don't think adding a Dual Skana Prime will do anything positive for the situation at all. I would feel a little 'dissed', and I would like to see it added only if it's part of a purchase exclusive as well, which I'm pretty sure would only escalate the complaining. :D.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Darzk

[Hardlined]

Now that xbox will be joining warframe, expect more posts about exclusives :\

[MerelyARumor]

Now that xbox will be joining warframe, expect more posts about exclusives :\

lol yea, after seeing aklato prime on the rhino in that xbox trailer, today is going to be an interesting day *gets popcorn*

 

 

ever wonder why this thread hasnt been locked yet?, i sure do

Edited June 9, 2014 by MerelyARumor

[Ionus]

uhhhh....

 

 

yeah, this might be questionable.

 

found it from the video here : 

DE likes doing this in their trailers.

 

[outcast777]

inb4 xbone exclusives

[RoboDoge]

inb4 xbone exclusives

Nah, just weapons used in trailer. We wont see them as we didnt see Dual Skana Prime from Volt in Profit trailer.

[LunchBoxKilla]

you know what?

 I freaking hope they are exclusives.

 

 

Because I am sick of the "GIB US STUFF PEOPLE PAID 300$ FOR FREE" posts...

[Gammaion]

Ok, so before, you got a resounding no, so why are you trying again? And what makes you think you're in a position to speak on behalf of Founders in saying what they think is an acceptable "solution"? One, there is no problem. People who don't have the founders stuff are simply jealous. Period. It's something they don't have that someone else has. They don't want founders weapons because they're better than other weapons. They want them merely because they don't have it. If all the founders stuff was freely available, then these people would turn their attention to the anniversary skin, or the wraith weapons, and many already do. Seriously, let this go. It'll end the same way all Founders exclusives threads end. With a no.

 

I don't mean to be offensive, or to come across as rude, but that's just the way it always ends up.

 

IMO, the only solution, and I mean the only solution that actually respects the legal ramifications of re releasing founders gear, is to give a full monetary (no, not platinum. Real currency) refund (reverse the purchase but keep all the items, including plat and founders gear) to Founders. That is the only acceptable "solution" to me.

 

And, to be clear, the problem isn't that Founders have stuff that non-Founders don't. The problem is the people who can't accept that the Founders program is over and who keep complaining about not having the exclusive items. So the solution fixes that problem.

 

Again, to reiterate the solution to people constantly complaining about Founders stuff: Give a full monetary refund to all Founders (yes, it's costly for DE), allow Founders to keep all their stuff, re-release all the Founders items (Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime, Skana Prime, but no Grandmaster emblem, solar mark, or Design Council entry) as-is, but in a new Prime Access pack (that, again, is time limited). Add Excalibur Prime blueprints, as well as those for the Skana Prime and Lato Prime, to the void drop table. Yes, DE loses out because they'd have to pay out (but they should if they're going to go against their "not-coming-back" stance), but this is the only thing that is acceptable to me.

I tend to avoid these threads like the plague, but this caught my eye. Lets just say DE made well over a certain seven digit number from the Founders Program, and leave it at that.