At One Point Or Another, De Is Forcing Me To Buy Outrageously Expensive Platinum. - My Only Feeling As A Freshly New Player.

[Dhrekr]

Wow. This discussion is really becoming very theoretical.

 

On my side, I have played almost one hundred hours and paid £7 (I bought a bunch of plat with a 75% discount). I solo T3 and have no big problems in T4. While I have to sell weapons or frames to make space in the inventory, I have managed pretty well. I have a nice collection of primes and of rare things, I have sold several prime items (making almost as much plat as what I earned) and I think DE's deal is honest and fair.

 

Whether Warframe is a play2win or not... I paid £7 for hours and hours of entertainment, and I have won a considerable amount of matches. And I have had fun, which is better than winning, really.

[InForWar]

 

Ok this has descended into trying to define a made up term and is not being helpful. I have re-read all four pages and then re-read the OP again. Lets try and get to the route of the problem and work from there. 

 

This problem is around warframe and weapon slots so lets work with those separately. Firstly warframe slots. 

 

Now I agree with you two slots is just not enough, three slots would have been nicer from DE but we have to work with what we got. You currently have an Excalibur and a Rhino. Now you say "i simply cannot enjoy a variety of warframes, i'm stuck in the bottle neck". However you can get rid of one warframe and try others. Its not a terrible loss as you can always rebuild a warframe, even Excalibur. Though its not ideal its very doable. I feel this one will be a hard choice but there is nothing wrong with having one main warframe and then trying out all the other warframes until you find a pair you like most and keeping it. If you wanted you could even store up spare warframe's in the armoury (i.e. You can build all three frame bits and then build the frame but not collect it from the foundry. It will sit there until ready to be used. Once again it will mean you need to grind a bit more for spare parts but it is very doable. 

 

Now weapons I am a bit less on your side and would like you to explain. You say you have eight weapon slots. Now this quite a large amount of slots. You could easily pick four weapons you absolutely must keep and use the other four to rotate in weapons to try and test. You really do not need different damage type weapons in this game currently to make it up to Pluto. The power of Mods is much much stronger and has a larger impact on your weapons output. So I can only conceive that the reason you say that you need these weapons is because you enjoy using them. Please could you list what weapons you feel you "must" keep and thus eating up all your slots. Now when it comes to powering up Mods all players are really on equal footing. Yes you can buy fusion cores but they are hilariously over priced when you can easily just run more missions to get them. Now are there any key mods you are missing e.g. Serration or hornet strike? This is probably causing a big problem then actually having a full set of weapons that you feel you need. 

 

Though I can understand your situation of being young. We were all young once and found it hard to pay into this world of online gaming. You however are 17? Now you should be able to open a bank account yourself now. If not then when you are 18. Then you can make your own paypal account as well and then no one can stop you spending a very small amount of money on the lowest platinum purchase. The lowest value of 75 platinum takes £3.99 or $4.99 or €4.99. That is pocket money, just save up some change and you can make it. Though the game is listed as 17+ it is a shame you cannot get complete access but lines need to be drawn somewhere. 

 

Overall though I don't get your disparity of this issue. You are still playing a high quality game with constant updates and new content for free. It has cost you nothing to get into this game and enjoy it. Though you are being limited by a few small niggling restrictions they actually make no impact on what you can access in-game, as you can build, everything. They only impact on what you can keep ready to be used at a moments notice. 

I'm really trying to do what ever you said and what everyone suggested, but DE has to accommodate new players... i'm a little less frustrated now,

but i'm quite sure i'm not the only newbie out there who feels this way.

 

 

Are you buying power? Are you skipping large chunks of time that the game is forcing you to endure before you can progress? Yes. its' Pay to win then. If it takes 24 hours to carve out 1 block on Dungeon Keeper ios and I need hundreds of them, then it's going to take me 2,400 hours to do a single room. Or I can pay for it. Pay to win. 

 

I don't have to buy the Prime access or spend plat in trade to buy the Rhino Chassis, but given that it had less than a 1% chance of dropping, the only way people will be acquiring it is to buy prime access or pick it up in trade, which requires plat and a fairly large sum, because it's that rare (and lets not say anything about DE encrypting drop tables after they cut the drop rate of forma) It's still pay to win.

 

The later isn't as onerous as the former, but they work on exactly the same basis. Only the most dense of Devs will use a pay walls blocking progress anymore, most now use the pay to wait scheme and make sure you pay by making it obscene. There's little difference between the 2 systems, the only difference is how far the devs go down that line. Dungeon keeper being the worst, Warframe's RNG less so.

 

What you're doing is quibbling over semantics, so what if it doesn't have a pay wall. if I stick a 10 day timer on something, you're still doing the same thing. It functions in exactly the same way. 

 

Exactly. 

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Dhrekr

 

There's no discount on ps4. To get the same amount that you bought I'd have to drop £28. Warframe certainly isn't the worst offender in F2P games, there are others which are far more blatant and onerous. But, we're seeing it in the likes of power creep on new weapons and the newest Prime drps. 

 

The excuse of "well you don't have to...." is wearing thin after every new frame put in is either hidden behind grind walls or has a tiny drop chance. Wrym Prime parts, Rhino Prime Chassis of 1%, Boltor Prime Receiver etc. especially when that's the point of the game now, I don't mind the grinding, but my God, I don't feel like wasting my time running void missions every day for hours, repeatedly for months with the vague hope to get a single part, I don't have that kind of time anyway. 

 

That's the issue, making it so hard to get these items that people cave and spend money on them, and it's getting worse with RNG dilution. 

Edited June 24, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[CY13ERPUNK]

um wat?

 

-1 OP

 

stop being a cheapskate, srsly

 

you can play 99.99% of the game FOR FREE

 

OH NOES!! you might have to support the game you're playing if you'd like more inventory space? THE HORROR!!!

 

DE cannot run their company on the well-wishing or QQ of F2P'ers who want to get everything without dropping a dime

 

I played for like 300-400 hrs for free, then I was like, damn I should prolly support these guys, and so I bought a founders support pack (I thought $50 was fair at that time), Im glad I supported them, and the plat has allowed me to never worry about slots/space ever again, if I wanted to spend plat on other things like cosmetics I could, but then I'd run out sooner

 

additionally, with the advent of trading ingame, and plat being used as a popular currency, you can acquire in-demand items and trade it to other players

 

honestly this thread just seems like a bunch of childish whining IMHO, the whole "im in highschool so i dont have $50" is ridiculous, either A - u rly dont have the $, then in that case you've got more important things to worry about than WF or B - you just dont want to spend yer $50 on WF and in that case you're just crying

 

the only reasonable issue that i can see here has been brought up before, and that is that mastery rank should be granting 1 slot of your choice (frame/weapon) per rank, IMHO this is fair, it gives lowbies a bit more breathing room, and doesnt negatively incentivize plat purchases at the higher ranks since the extra 16 slots atm still is not a lot in the big picture

Edited June 24, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Semshol]

Just going to chip in here.

 

I used to be a non-cash player BEFORE I got a job and prior to that I used to make many of the same arguments about games trying to find a way to get out of paying those few dollars.

 

Well, now I'm on the other side of the fence.

 

If you find what I'm about to say too long, then here is the short version: Pay to git gud or git rekt!

 

Alright, now the long version of why you SHOULD pay:

 

1) Warframe is a spectacular game!

 

I'm not saying that as some fanboi who has only played CoD. I'm saying this as an avid Chinese Gold Farmer (you can find my IGN on many games because I play almost anything with a bare pulse even the crappy S#&$ on iPad and iPhones). If there is a game out there, I'm probably farming on it. If it's a free-to-play game, I'll do my research, work out the fastest way to farm up currency and work out what items are needed and what are not needed. In Warframe, cash is needed and I'm talking real money. At first, I felt that this was unfair, but having given the game a chance, I've found that I actually don't mind paying (and this is one of the few games in which I've bought the unnecessary nonsense like accessories and the colour schematics to customize my frame).

 

Why? Because graphics wise, I find it beautiful. Next, the gameplay itself is just insanely fun. I've loved L4D but everyone is on the same footing there, only your 'experience' counts. Here, things are very different and there is some satisfaction in maximising my gear with about 3 - 4 forma and potatoes etc. All in all, it's just fun as heck and I find that I don't want to wait for the months to farm things up and so I end up paying in platinum.

 

2) Rationalize the FIGURES!

 

People play for YEARS on games like World of Warcraft and every month costs them about $13. So for a year of play = $156 USD

 

Now then, let's take a look at Warframe. Assuming you don't waste plat like me. You can grab Loki Prime Access package for about 2500 plat (the second one I think) for about 79.99 which is 80.

 

80/13 = 6.1 months of play time converted to the WoW standard equivalent.

 

Is warframe more fun than WoW? As a Chinese Gold Farmer, I say YES! HELL YES! Will I play for more than 6 months? YES, I've spent about $200 on this and I don't regret it (.3.)

 

Also my currency is smaller than USD, so I spent about $400 in terms of my currency (>_>).

 

But seriously with 2500 plat, assuming you only buy slots, potatoes and forma, you'll have enough to max out most gear and Warframes, but if you can spend that amount, just spend a little more to customize your warframe, it'll make it feel like something of yours and that is where you'll begin to really get into the game.

 

3) Understand what you're really saying!

 

As someone who has written arguments like this, I will say the following - Are you really being fair?

 

Everything in this world is a business. A game is a business. It is not here for your entertainment. You PAY to be entertained. You pay for beer when you party. You pay for food when you eat. You paid for the computer you're playing Warframe on!

 

Or your parents paid for it, either way, my point is this. $80 is an insanely LOW price to pay. It only feels expensive if you don't have a job or if you're the type that never saves. My advice is simple: Write down what you spend every week, cut back just $10 from that. Pay the $80 now and then live with your new budget for 8 weeks. This is essentially how a salary advance works, congratulations you now understand basic finance. Want to pay back your loan faster? Cut back on more! Want to pay it back slower? Cut back on less. It's entirely up to you.

 

The fact of the matter is, most people pay for stuff on a game and then once they get that instant gratification, they leave and the money is entirely wasted. If you know you're going to play with and stick with something for awhile, then you're just paying the entertainment fees and you shouldn't feel anything at all about paying for it.

 

Conclusion:

 

To summarize the main points I've made:

 

- You're paying for value, I personally see the value in Warframe and that's why I pay for it.

 

- Compare your expenditure, examine how much you have to pay. I saw people in this thread quoting figures like 7 pounds to get something good going. I could never do that, so I paid for more up front.

 

- Do your homework. There is a wiki with a wealth of information, find out what you need Tenno and then just go for it.

 

- Lastly, WORK OUT YOUR FINANCES. As a financial services consultant, the thing I find most appalling is that people fail to realise the significance of what they're doing with their money. Always compare the uses of your dollars and you'll find a way to channel funds month to month into what you really want. Warframe is a pay once and then roll kind of deal.

 

Pay once, git gud, wreck things and then trade for more plat. (unless you're a super anti-social player like me who pays so I don't have to talk to people). Either way, your finances are your own responsibility and you DO have the money for it.

 

You don't have to be a millionaire. Get a job! It's called part-timing. Minimum wage should be around $4, I dunno, in my country it's like $5/hour, or was it $6. Either way, using $4/hour you would need a total of 20 hours of work to get what you need. Most people don't work for 1 hour, a shift is usually 3 - 4 hours. So, you need about 5 - 8 shifts (I'm giving a buffer) in order to afford what you need...Wow! Two weeks of work to enjoy a game, ermehgerd that's so difficult I can't do it (T3T) QQ forever!

 

That was sarcasm by the way, two weeks of work is nothing. If you like something, pay, you'll enjoy it more than something you're just trying out for free.

 

-Sem

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[InForWar]

um wat?

 

-1 OP

 

stop being a cheapskate, srsly

 

you can play 99.99% of the game FOR FREE

 

OH NOES!! you might have to support the game you're playing if you'd like more inventory space? THE HORROR!!!

 

DE cannot run their company on the well-wishing or QQ of F2P'ers who want to get everything without dropping a dime

 

I played for like 300-400 hrs for free, then I was like, damn I should prolly support these guys, and so I bought a founders support pack (I thought $50 was fair at that time), Im glad I supported them, and the plat has allowed me to never worry about slots/space ever again, if I wanted to spend plat on other things like cosmetics I could, but then I'd run out sooner

 

additionally, with the advent of trading ingame, and plat being used as a popular currency, you can acquire in-demand items and trade it to other players

 

honestly this thread just seems like a bunch of childish whining IMHO, the whole "im in highschool so i dont have $50" is ridiculous, either A - u rly dont have the $, then in that case you've got more important things to worry about than WF or B - you just dont want to spend yer $50 on WF and in that case you're just crying

 

the only reasonable issue that i can see here has been brought up before, and that is that mastery rank should be granting 1 slot of your choice (frame/weapon) per rank, IMHO this is fair, it gives lowbies a bit more breathing room, and doesnt negatively incentivize plat purchases at the higher ranks since the extra 16 slots atm still is not a lot in the big picture

You think i wouldn't support in this game if i could? it's not about the 50 dollars. it's mostly about the fact that i can't, am not capable of paying and am completely screwed because of it.

And this game is practically choking people like me.

Edited June 24, 2014 by InForWar

[InForWar]

Just going to chip in here.

 

I used to be a non-cash player BEFORE I got a job and prior to that I used to make many of the same arguments about games trying to find a way to get out of paying those few dollars.

 

Well, now I'm on the other side of the fence.

Well said, now your opinion about this subject has obviously changed because you're capable for paying, and you don't give any more damns about the people who you used to be one of them.

[Semshol]

Well said, now your opinion about this subject has obviously changed because you're capable for paying, and you don't give any more damns about the people who you used to be one of them.

 

Nice of you to quote only a portion of what was said instead of reading everything that I wrote. Try reading, it might actually teach you something.

[Gildarts_bb]

You think i wouldn't support in this game if i could? it's not about the 50 dollars. it's mostly about the fact that i can't, am not capable of paying and am completely screwed because of it.

And this game is practically choking people like me.

Is it you dont have the money or you dont have a way to pay online? If the later then again i would suggest a pre-paid gift card

[blackstraykitten]

i  dont think he made this thread for you guys to teach him how to make platinum after wasting his first 50 on rubbish.
i think this post was made asking suggestions on how to prevent waste on the first 50 platinum

this could be easily achieved by putting a message from the lotus saying that the platinum has great worth and should be spent on important things like potatoes/slots BUT can also be spent on least significant things like revives and (insert rubbish here)

i also suffered this when i started warframe, if researching or getting information outside the game is the only solution then that sounds like a bad design. all information/tricks and tips should come from the game itself and be shared out of the game through other media(along with bugs and exploits)

so...OP i give you my feels, i wasted all my first 50 on revives because lotus didnt even tell me about how valuable platinum is

[MDRLOz]

I'm really trying to do what ever you said and what everyone suggested, but DE has to accommodate new players... i'm a little less frustrated now,

but i'm quite sure i'm not the only newbie out there who feels this way.

Could you please tell me about the weapons side of thing. I wanted to know what 8 weapons you have that you feel you cant play without. 

 

Also tbh I think what you need to do is find yourself a nice clan. One that will help you get the weapons and frames you want so that you don't have to worry so much about getting everything. Maybe one that could give you a few mods and plat to get you started. Remember this is an online co-op game, even if you play your missions solo there is no reason why you cant join a clan. 

 

The game is terrible for new players atm and you really need someone playing to get you past the initial entry into the game. I would say other issues are bigger for new players then the ones you have listed so far. 

[Yorinar]

so...OP i give you my feels, i wasted all my first 50 on revives because lotus didnt even tell me about how valuable platinum is

 

Same.  And I have bought thousands of platinum since then.  Way more was wasted on Void keys than I'd like to admit, when it first came out.  The regrets.

 

Someone linked the Steam Devs video about in-game economies.  Brilliant talk.  DE fails on almost every mark.  This cannot be repeated enough.  Most uses of platinum in this game lead to regret.  I'm relinking the video here because it needs to be seen as widely as possible.

 

[InForWar]

Same.  And I have bought thousands of platinum since then.  Way more was wasted on Void keys than I'd like to admit, when it first came out.  The regrets.

 

Someone linked the Steam Devs video about in-game economies.  Brilliant talk.  DE fails on almost every mark.  This cannot be repeated enough.  Most uses of platinum in this game lead to regret.  I'm relinking the video here because it needs to be seen as widely as possible.

 

Totally agreed.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Totally agreed.

I'm in agreeance with this. It's just the Pay2Win aspect people claim this game has doesn't exist, which is the only thing I am vehement about in this post.

[makaloff95]

eh, really? call me arrogant myabe but DE doesnt force you to pay. Yes i admit that i wasted my starter plat on stuff that werent especielly usefull but i was fine with the things i had, i had quite good amount of weapon slots and 2 warframe slots. allthought you shouldnt supercharge a weapon before you tried it and given a thought of it, thats what i do atleast. I build weapons to try them out, if i like them i buy a BP so i can make it later again, if i dislike it, i just sell it when ive max lvled it, same with warframes.

 

i have spended around 10$ on this game but tbh, you can be fine just without it since you unlock planets who give you better materials and weapons over time.

 

and if you feel this is a terrible ''wants me to spend irl money'', then i recommend to look at EA's splendid and great (irony here) Need for Speed World. play that game and come back here again and you'll never complain about warframe again.

[CY13ERPUNK]

Same.  And I have bought thousands of platinum since then.  Way more was wasted on Void keys than I'd like to admit, when it first came out.  The regrets.

 

Someone linked the Steam Devs video about in-game economies.  Brilliant talk.  DE fails on almost every mark.  This cannot be repeated enough.  Most uses of platinum in this game lead to regret.  I'm relinking the video here because it needs to be seen as widely as possible.

 

 

gotta say, that is a great video, but of course, Valve is a very intelligent company =]

[InForWar]

gotta say, that is a great video, but of course, Valve is a very intelligent company =]

Yep. DE has a thing or two they can learn from them.

[Nkomo-Sama]

When I started there was no trade chat our only option was to buy platinum. Which I did not mind on account of how awesome this game is. Now you have trade chat and with a little initiative you can make as much platinum as you want to. You have to do something to make it though no one is going to do it for you nor should they. I'm sorry I have no pity when it comes to new players. I have advice, a willingness to Help and solutions but I am fresh out of pity. You pity people and you make them weak and unable to be self reliant. Teach them what to do and how to do it and keep moving.

[InForWar]

When I started there was no trade chat our only option was to buy platinum. Which I did not mind on account of how awesome this game is. Now you have trade chat and with a little initiative you can make as much platinum as you want to. You have to do something to make it though no one is going to do it for you nor should they. I'm sorry I have no pity when it comes to new players. I have advice, a willingness to Help and solutions but I am fresh out of pity. You pity people and you make them weak and unable to be self reliant. Teach them what to do and how to do it and keep moving.

How can one make a lot of platinum off trade when he can't get to higher towers to actually farm them?

 

50% of the people replied to this thread without even reading it.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Yep. DE has a thing or two they can learn from them.

Im not the most observant person ever but doesn't DE use EVERY bit of the examples/ideas found in that video that pertain to positive economy and apply it in Warframe?

[Nkomo-Sama]

How can one make a lot of platinum off trade when he can't get to higher towers to actually farm them?

 

50% of the people replied to this thread without even reading it.

I read it before responding. You can get tradeable material having gone in no towers (rare mods)and in addition you can find vey valuable content in a low tier. example: T1Loki p chassis. Win.

[Yezzik]

All you need to spend real money on in this game are two Warframe slots, so you can have a Frost (for Assassinate, Defense, Exterminate, Interception, Mobile Defense and Nightmare Alerts), a Loki (for Capture, Rescue, Sabotage, Spy and help with scanning) and a Nekros (for Survival and extra loot).

All you need for weapons is a full loadout and three spare slots (one for levelling and two for crafting dual/ak variants).

And all you need for Sentinels is Carrier, Dethcube, Helios, Shade and the Sweeper/DMR (depending on whether you main a shotgun or not).

That's 40 Plat spent.

[--Q--uaint]

Also of note is that one of the login rewards is 30 free plat. Free. I'm not saying it's common, but it's around and I've gotten it before.

 

 

Also,

Same.  And I have bought thousands of platinum since then.  Way more was wasted on Void keys than I'd like to admit, when it first came out.  The regrets.

 

Someone linked the Steam Devs video about in-game economies.  Brilliant talk.  DE fails on almost every mark.  This cannot be repeated enough.  Most uses of platinum in this game lead to regret.  I'm relinking the video here because it needs to be seen as widely as possible.

so much agreement with you

 

 

I spent a relatively large amount of time staring at that video in shock. That is outstanding.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ChronoEclipse

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

DE is forced to sudo-trick new players because they would never get any real good amount of money from vets.

"Pay-to-win" economics do not work. The quotes are there because it is not inherently P2W, but the foundation is there along with similarities.

Edited October 18, 2014 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[Brimir]

This thread reeks of entitlement to me.

 

Back in my day *waves cane around* we didn't have the ability to get Platinum from trading - then you were truly forced to spend Platinum on the very essentials. The introduction of trading was a very generous move by DE (they didn't even have to make Platinum trading an option, they could've just kept it on a item-to-item basis) that eliminated any need to to buy Platinum; now it is merely a luxury resource.