Since When Did Fire Become Good In The Void?

[ss4chris]

I saw calpyso's latest vid and he states  Fire is good in void now because it takes out the gunners. Is this true? may i have confirmation on this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVLPqSp-3mI 

 

^ vid above.

[TrinityPrime]

4 corrosive procs = no armor = clone flesh = takes extra damage from fire, which is also the order of the 3 high status mods: malignant force, high voltage, and thermite rounds.

Edited July 6, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[ss4chris]

4 corrosive procs = no armor = clone flesh = takes extra damage from fire, which is also the order of the 3 high status mods: malignant force, high voltage, and thermite rounds.

ah coool. this is good to know.

[Sixty5]

As long as you can get the procs Fire will decimate most enemies in the void. However running corrosive + fire over Corrosive + Ice leaves you pretty weak to Fusion Moa's.

 

So basically if your gun has decent status, and deals Impact damage at base then run fire. If it doesn't have high status or has slash damage at base go with Ice

[ss4chris]

As long as you can get the procs Fire will decimate most enemies in the void. However running corrosive + fire over Corrosive + Ice leaves you pretty weak to Fusion Moa's.

 

So basically if your gun has decent status, and deals Impact damage at base then run fire. If it doesn't have high status or has slash damage at base go with Ice

 thanks.  quite helpful.

[taiiat]

personally, while the Fire is a Stun and a nice bonus to fighting the Armored Enemies - i don't feel comfortable not having Ice to help against those Shields that will be come a problem eventually.

 

that, and Icesplosions that come from Ice freezing and killing Enemies is freaking satisfying.

[darthdart]

Use whatever kills the more dangerous enemies easier.

[Hawner]

In Void the Phage excels more than lots of weapons. The basic element it has is Viral (extra damage to flesh), and you can add Corrosive AND Fire (no armor and even more damage to flesh). With the element+status chance mods you can get to a very good status chance. Believe me, you can kill tons of enemies with a single "bullet" with it. Corpus and MOAs are the ones a little harder to kill, but it's not a big problem.

[ss4chris]

In Void the Phage excels more than lots of weapons. The basic element it has is Viral (extra damage to flesh), and you can add Corrosive AND Fire (no armor and even more damage to flesh). With the element+status chance mods you can get to a very good status chance. Believe me, you can kill tons of enemies with a single "bullet" with it. Corpus and MOAs are the ones a little harder to kill, but it's not a big problem.

thanks LD

[[DE]Momaw]

4 corrosive procs = no armor = clone flesh

 

It doesn't actually work like that.

 

TEST 1

Corrosion versus armor

Using my Tysis with 100% status chance and corrosive damage and a base damage of 347, I fired into a level 33 Corrupted Heavy Gunner.  Ferrite Armor has +75% vulnerability to corrosion while Cloned Flesh has no resist or bonus against corrosion   The record of shot damage is as follows

 

211

347

389

427

461

491

516

536

552 (critted:  x1.5 = 828)

565

575

583 (critted: x1.5 = 874)

589

593

 

It's clear that the armor isn't simply being completely removed after 4 hits because the damage inflicted was continuing to go up with every shot/corrosion inflicted.  It's also clear that the clone flesh damage multipliers aren't being used to the exclusion of the armor, because the damage inflicted is more reflective of the +75% from corrosion versus ferrite than the +0% from corrosion versus clone flesh.   After 4 corrosion hits the damage inflicted on the target was doubled, while continued corrosion gave diminishing but non-zero returns.

 

 

TEST 2

Physical + fire damage against corroded armor

For this test I reduced the damage on my Tysis to 108.5 while maintaining the 100% status chance.  I paired this with a Mark 1 Braton with added fire damage. I chose the Mark 1 because it has low damage, low status chance, and a low rate of fire, which made it easier to control the test.  The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 fire damage (Hellfire + Wildfire + Thermite Rounds). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  15

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 18

2 corrosion: 22

3 corrosion: 26

4 corrosion: 30

5 corrosion: 35

6 corrosion: 39

7 corrosion: 43

 

Armor is not stripped after 4 corroding hits. Unlike full corrosion damage, the increases here were basically linear with each added corrosion.  Even after being corroded 7 times, the target was still taking only 81% of our base damage, of which the overwhelming majority was fire.

 

 

TEST 3

Physical + corrosion damage against corroded armor

Continued to use reduced damage Tysis. Continued to use Mark 1 Braton as rifle but changed the elemental build. The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 corrosion damage (Infected Clip + High Voltage + Malignant Force). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  38

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 44

2 corrosion: 49

3 corrosion: 54

4 corrosion: 58

5 corrosion: 62

6 corrosion: 66

7 corrosion: 69

 

Using corrosion damage our enemy was taking 102% of base damage after only 3 corrosions, and by 7 corrosions, was taking 131% of base damage.

 

 

CONCLUSIONS

+ Corrosion does not completely remove the effects of armor after 4 hits, or even significantly more.

 

+ Repeated corrosion does not allow fire damage to ignore the ferrite-type modifiers.

 

+ Weapons with fire damage are significantly less powerful than weapons with corrosion damage against corrupted heavy gunners i.e. enemies with significant ferrite-based armor.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Momaw

[Khallisto]

4 corrosive procs = no armor = clone flesh = takes extra damage from fire, which is also the order of the 3 high status mods: malignant force, high voltage, and thermite rounds.

If you have a pre-made team, everyone could agree and use Corrosive Projection aura too. 

[Mokkania]

--

hi,

I've always wondered how cloned flesh bonus/malus works with armor.

I'm not sure I understand the result from test 2, comparing with test 3 does it mean that multipliers aren't dependent of the amount of armor (corroded or not the bonus multiplier stay the same?)

or is it that corrosion proc doesn't make additive maluses?

or both?

[Tengu-musume]

-test-

Thanks. I was about to mod my favorite weapons with Corr + Fire and then I saw your test. You made a positive difference :3

[OriKlein]

Instead of a bane mod (only 30% extra damage) should use a second elemental mod (stormbringer, hellfire and infected clip are +90% elemental damage, wildfire is 60% fire damage + 20% magazine cap) for much higher DPS.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Darzk]

It doesn't actually work like that.

 

*snip*

 

CONCLUSIONS

+ Corrosion does not completely remove the effects of armor after 4 hits, or even significantly more.

 

+ Repeated corrosion does not allow fire damage to ignore the ferrite-type modifiers.

 

+ Weapons with fire damage are significantly less powerful than weapons with corrosion damage against corrupted heavy gunners i.e. enemies with significant ferrite-based armor.

Corrosive procs reduce armor by 25%, multiplicatively. Each proc reduces armor to 75% of what it was before *that* proc, not the original amount, so you can theoretically never reach 0 armor. But eventually the game rounds down, armor is reduced to 0, the health bar turns red, and the ferrite armor modifiers stop working.

 

4 Corrosive procs would reduce armor to 75% * 75% * 75% * 75% which is ~32%.

 

So reducing armor to the point where ferrite modifiers no longer apply takes a lot more than 4 procs. It's in the realm of 12-20, iirc.

 

However CP aura reduces armor by 30%, additively. If you run with 4x CP auras, enemies will have no armor. Health bars will be red, and ferrite/alloy modifiers will not apply. If you run with 3x auras, enemies start off with -90% armor, and reducing that to 0 to ignore armor modifiers takes quite a few less procs.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Darzk

[Radford_343]

It doesn't actually work like that.

 

--snip--

 

People like you are so awesome.

 

Thank you for you work, and well formatted results. I will continue to use corrosive + ice in the future as well ^^

[Darzk]

I've always wondered how cloned flesh bonus/malus works with armor.

Anything with a bonus to cloned flesh gets that bonus against all humanoid Grineer. Anything with a bonus to a specific armor type gets that bonus to that type of grineer, as well as ignores that portion of the enemy's armor.

 

It works negatively too, which is why slash is so AWFUL against Alloy armor. It gets it's damage calculated as though the enemy has +50% armor and it does half as much damage as base. It's pretty bad against ferrite too, dealing only 85% and also getting reduced by 115% of enemy armor. 

[Mokkania]

Anything with a bonus to cloned flesh gets that bonus against all humanoid Grineer. Anything with a bonus to a specific armor type gets that bonus to that type of grineer, as well as ignores that portion of the enemy's armor.

 

It works negatively too, which is why slash is so AWFUL against Alloy armor. It gets it's damage calculated as though the enemy has +50% armor and it does half as much damage as base. It's pretty bad against ferrite too, dealing only 85% and also getting reduced by 115% of enemy armor. 

ok I more or less see how it goes, thx

[Monolake]

Also fire proc has Dot

blast on the other hand KOs them for a bit

[RancidTurnip1603]

I saw calpyso's latest vid and he states  Fire is good in void now because it takes out the gunners. Is this true? may i have confirmation on this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVLPqSp-3mI 

 

^ vid above.

It has never not been good, it's just not the standard build because it's specializes at taking down heavy gunners specifically while being overall weaker against everything else.

 

Just because he makes videos on youtube doesn't mean he's particularly smart.

Edited July 6, 2014 by RancidTurnip1603

[ss4chris]

It doesn't actually work like that.

 

TEST 1

Corrosion versus armor

Using my Tysis with 100% status chance and corrosive damage and a base damage of 347, I fired into a level 33 Corrupted Heavy Gunner.  Ferrite Armor has +75% vulnerability to corrosion while Cloned Flesh has no resist or bonus against corrosion   The record of shot damage is as follows

 

211

347

389

427

461

491

516

536

552 (critted:  x1.5 = 828)

565

575

583 (critted: x1.5 = 874)

589

593

 

It's clear that the armor isn't simply being completely removed after 4 hits because the damage inflicted was continuing to go up with every shot/corrosion inflicted.  It's also clear that the clone flesh damage multipliers aren't being used to the exclusion of the armor, because the damage inflicted is more reflective of the +75% from corrosion versus ferrite than the +0% from corrosion versus clone flesh.   After 4 corrosion hits the damage inflicted on the target was doubled, while continued corrosion gave diminishing but non-zero returns.

 

 

TEST 2

Physical + fire damage against corroded armor

For this test I reduced the damage on my Tysis to 108.5 while maintaining the 100% status chance.  I paired this with a Mark 1 Braton with added fire damage. I chose the Mark 1 because it has low damage, low status chance, and a low rate of fire, which made it easier to control the test.  The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 fire damage (Hellfire + Wildfire + Thermite Rounds). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  15

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 18

2 corrosion: 22

3 corrosion: 26

4 corrosion: 30

5 corrosion: 35

6 corrosion: 39

7 corrosion: 43

 

Armor is not stripped after 4 corroding hits. Unlike full corrosion damage, the increases here were basically linear with each added corrosion.  Even after being corroded 7 times, the target was still taking only 81% of our base damage, of which the overwhelming majority was fire.

 

 

TEST 3

Physical + corrosion damage against corroded armor

Continued to use reduced damage Tysis. Continued to use Mark 1 Braton as rifle but changed the elemental build. The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 corrosion damage (Infected Clip + High Voltage + Malignant Force). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  38

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 44

2 corrosion: 49

3 corrosion: 54

4 corrosion: 58

5 corrosion: 62

6 corrosion: 66

7 corrosion: 69

 

Using corrosion damage our enemy was taking 102% of base damage after only 3 corrosions, and by 7 corrosions, was taking 131% of base damage.

 

 

CONCLUSIONS

+ Corrosion does not completely remove the effects of armor after 4 hits, or even significantly more.

 

+ Repeated corrosion does not allow fire damage to ignore the ferrite-type modifiers.

 

+ Weapons with fire damage are significantly less powerful than weapons with corrosion damage against corrupted heavy gunners i.e. enemies with significant ferrite-based armor.

 this was too l o ng can you make a vid?

[ss4chris]

It doesn't actually work like that.

 

TEST 1

Corrosion versus armor

Using my Tysis with 100% status chance and corrosive damage and a base damage of 347, I fired into a level 33 Corrupted Heavy Gunner.  Ferrite Armor has +75% vulnerability to corrosion while Cloned Flesh has no resist or bonus against corrosion   The record of shot damage is as follows

 

211

347

389

427

461

491

516

536

552 (critted:  x1.5 = 828)

565

575

583 (critted: x1.5 = 874)

589

593

 

It's clear that the armor isn't simply being completely removed after 4 hits because the damage inflicted was continuing to go up with every shot/corrosion inflicted.  It's also clear that the clone flesh damage multipliers aren't being used to the exclusion of the armor, because the damage inflicted is more reflective of the +75% from corrosion versus ferrite than the +0% from corrosion versus clone flesh.   After 4 corrosion hits the damage inflicted on the target was doubled, while continued corrosion gave diminishing but non-zero returns.

 

 

TEST 2

Physical + fire damage against corroded armor

For this test I reduced the damage on my Tysis to 108.5 while maintaining the 100% status chance.  I paired this with a Mark 1 Braton with added fire damage. I chose the Mark 1 because it has low damage, low status chance, and a low rate of fire, which made it easier to control the test.  The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 fire damage (Hellfire + Wildfire + Thermite Rounds). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  15

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 18

2 corrosion: 22

3 corrosion: 26

4 corrosion: 30

5 corrosion: 35

6 corrosion: 39

7 corrosion: 43

 

Armor is not stripped after 4 corroding hits. Unlike full corrosion damage, the increases here were basically linear with each added corrosion.  Even after being corroded 7 times, the target was still taking only 81% of our base damage, of which the overwhelming majority was fire.

 

 

TEST 3

Physical + corrosion damage against corroded armor

Continued to use reduced damage Tysis. Continued to use Mark 1 Braton as rifle but changed the elemental build. The rifle was rated at 2.6 impact, 4.3 puncture, 10.2 slash, and 35.7 corrosion damage (Infected Clip + High Voltage + Malignant Force). My target was a level 30 corrupted heavy gunner.

 

Rifle damage without corrosions:  38

Rifle damage with 1 corrosion: 44

2 corrosion: 49

3 corrosion: 54

4 corrosion: 58

5 corrosion: 62

6 corrosion: 66

7 corrosion: 69

 

Using corrosion damage our enemy was taking 102% of base damage after only 3 corrosions, and by 7 corrosions, was taking 131% of base damage.

 

 

CONCLUSIONS

+ Corrosion does not completely remove the effects of armor after 4 hits, or even significantly more.

 

+ Repeated corrosion does not allow fire damage to ignore the ferrite-type modifiers.

 

+ Weapons with fire damage are significantly less powerful than weapons with corrosion damage against corrupted heavy gunners i.e. enemies with significant ferrite-based armor.

  so what  do you reccomend for void then still?  corrosive ice?

[ss4chris]

It has never not been good, it's just not the standard build because it's specializes at taking down heavy gunners specifically while being overall weaker against everything else.

 

Just because he makes videos on youtube doesn't mean he's particularly smart.

i think thats pretty ignorant of you to say lol >.<

[RancidTurnip1603]

  so what  do you reccomend for void then still?  corrosive ice?

Depends on what you want the weapon for....

 

If you want a good, all-around damage type Corrosive/Cold is still best.

 

If you want it to take down heavy gunners specifically then run Corrosive/Fire

If you want to take down everything other than heavy gunners, I've been getting a lot of use out of Radiation/Cold on my Pyrana.

[RancidTurnip1603]

i think thats pretty ignorant of you to say lol >.<

Because I actually think for myself? Really though, anyone who's tried corrosive/fire should have already known how strong it was against heavy gunners.

 

Saying that it's all of a sudden super good because it kills heavy gunners is pretty ignorant, because they've been doubly weak to that combo since damage 2.0.