Who Thought It'd Be A Good Idea To Have Three 12 Hour Waiting Times As Part Of A Mission?

[unknow99]

Why does everybody think that type of logic

Low resistance = great abilities.

High resistance = crap abilities.

Where's the logic?

"oh no Loki's squishy don't nerf his abilities, that's what makes him save himself."

Ok man, you want to nerf her? Please explain how. The risk of D.E. nerfing her with a hammer in the face is quite high, that's why the "plz nurf" comments make us afraid...

 

(I-I'm just worried...)

[Marthrym]

Well, to build Mirage, you will need: 

 

5 Orokin Ciphers, which would need four coordinating players to mitigate the RNG of the Key needed to open the Vault Doors.

An Argon Crystal, which can vary from easily retrieved to nigh impossible.

Then, once you get all the ingredients, you solve the riddle (which may take time depending on whether the player wants to solve it without spoilers), complete the mission, and you get a guaranteed component (which is good and all), then you have to craft it and wait for 12 hours to get the next one, then solve the next one, and so on until you get all three components.

Take 3 days to build the Warframe. 

 

Actually, I think just decreasing the component building time to 8 hours would be slightly better. At least it would make the quest flow at a more interesting pace.

Exaclty. So... to unlock the quest, do vault runs, preferably with a team. Which actually is better than running void missions over and over and over to maybe get the part you want. At least for me.^^

Is it me or are argon crystals obtainable outside of the void now? I got 3 by running invasion missions... Is it normal?

The thing with the riddles is, all you have to do is cycle through the planets to find the nodes that show you where the mission is (they glow and display the mission's name). So you don't really need spoilers or even a brain to find them.^^

 

Decreasing the time to 8 hours per part would help. It wouldn't be optimal, since for most frames (not counting Primes) you just need to kill a boss until you get all 3 parts, which takes what? An hour or so (if RNG is not in a foul mood of course^^') and then build all parts together at the same time. So basically 13 hours or so. Maybe a bit more. But the current system makes it 36 hours minimum just for the three parts. Then 3 more days to build the frame, like you said... Yeah, maybe a bit too much of a difference there, at least for impatient people.^^'

 

 

Why does everybody think that type of logic

Low resistance = great abilities.

High resistance = crap abilities.

Where's the logic?

"oh no Loki's squishy don't nerf his abilities, that's what makes him save himself."

Not "everybody", just mostly people that make games , apparently.^^'

I always wondered why a caster had to be squishy, and a tank had to do virtually no damage. "Balance" and "logic" are really not friends in the video game industry...

But from the reviews and comment, she really is squishy and needs her abilities to stay alive. Maybe more so than a Nova. I know the sacred "skill" can help, but some frames are inherently better at staying alive than others, just because of their base stats.

 

I don't think she should be nerfed. It's just that her 1 synergises really well with weapons. So the better the weapon, the better the ability. Though this only comes from other players' reviews, so I don't really have my own opinion on the subject yet.^^'

Edited July 20, 2014 by Marthrym

[Sasquatchias]

Ok man, you want to nerf her? Please explain how. The risk of D.E. nerfing her with a hammer in the face is quite high, that's why the "plz nurf" comments make us afraid...

 

(I-I'm just worried...)

 

Perhaps lower the damage each individual clone from Hall of Mirrors does?

 

Or maybe give them health/shielding equal to Mirage? (I say equal because making it lower would just kill the ability mid/late game,)

Edited July 20, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[SolarDwagon]

Well, honestly, HoM is unimpressive when you're hosting. Once the BUG gets fixed properly, she'll stop being so flavour of the monthy. That said, it's probably still one of the best number 1 skills out there, since most number 1 skills are the equivalent of a normal MMO's "autoattack".

 

Back on topic, I think that shortening the time without explaining it in lore would give rise to a lot of whinging about inconsistency. Explain the blueprints away as proper blueprints instead of stolen tech from bosses, and poof.

[Sasquatchias]

Well, honestly, HoM is unimpressive when you're hosting. Once the BUG gets fixed properly, she'll stop being so flavour of the monthy. That said, it's probably still one of the best number 1 skills out there, since most number 1 skills are the equivalent of a normal MMO's "autoattack".

 

Back on topic, I think that shortening the time without explaining it in lore would give rise to a lot of whinging about inconsistency. Explain the blueprints away as proper blueprints instead of stolen tech from bosses, and poof.

Would having the next hint appear when you obtain the BPs cause some whining? 

[SolarDwagon]

So, the hint is discovered WITH the blueprint instead of on it? Makes more sense than discovering an inscription on a part YOU made.

[Davoodoo]

Well, honestly, HoM is unimpressive when you're hosting. Once the BUG gets fixed properly, she'll stop being so flavour of the monthy. That said, it's probably still one of the best number 1 skills out there, since most number 1 skills are the equivalent of a normal MMO's "autoattack".

 

Back on topic, I think that shortening the time without explaining it in lore would give rise to a lot of whinging about inconsistency. Explain the blueprints away as proper blueprints instead of stolen tech from bosses, and poof.

You found blueprint for helmet then crafted it and miraclously discovered inscription on it despite it not being present in blueprints, who put it there, how it managed to get there if it wasnt on blueprint.

 

Yea inconsistency.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[izzatuw]

Ok man, you want to nerf her? Please explain how. The risk of D.E. nerfing her with a hammer in the face is quite high, that's why the "plz nurf" comments make us afraid...

 

(I-I'm just worried...)

I don't wanna nerf her. But the threads will come when people do get her.

But the excuse for low durability isn't a good one. Even Rhino who is one of the most durable frame had his IS nerfed to the ground

[Renegade343]

You found blueprint for helmet then crafted it and miraclously discovered inscription on it despite it not being present in blueprints, who put it there, how it managed to get there if it wasnt on blueprint.

 

Yea inconsistency.

Or how about Ordis just trying to mess with you? Would that help?

[Vaze]

DE is hungry for money. Buy platinum and rush production or go crazy with unnecessary waiting. Nice move! Good for business!

[GeoDP]

Who told DE to implement this idea of a mechanic?

Yeah,I wanna know that too actually...I wanna know and SLAP THAT DUDE IN THE FACE.

 

Seriously though,DE,what made you think that we want something like this? I love warframe,i reallly do,but when you do things like that you make me really angry and infuriated.

 

Every time if it's not RNG,it's something else,worse or not.

[SpartanSK117]

DE is hungry for money. Buy platinum and rush production or go crazy with unnecessary waiting. Nice move! Good for business!

+1

[Onisa]

It would be my preference if after an hour or so into a part's build Ordis 'notices' something and the next riddle is unlocked.

Keeps players from shotgunning the missions but makes it doable in a single session.

[frudi]

I understand the frustration of having to wait 12 hours between quest missions, I wish I could do them all without the forced waiting. But let's step back for a second and be realistic - she takes only 1 day longer to craft than other regular frames (by regular frames, I mean ones that you can get by farming starmap bosses).

 

Would it have been better if she was clan research? You'd have to wait 6 days before you could even start crafting her, with no way to rush the research.

Would it have been better If she was behind a RNG grind wall like Hydroid or Prime frames? Then most people would spend days of frustration, trying to farm the components or other prerequisites (beacon farming ftw!) before they could start crafting her. And they'd most likely still end up crafting each component individually, not all 3 at once.

 

Honestly, for a newly released frame, she is ridiculously easy and forgiving to get, compared to the alternatives we've had so far. One extra day of waiting, that's it. I'd take that over relying on RNGesus or clan research every single time.

[Innocent_Flower]

She's worse than boss frames. 

She's worse than clan tech frames, because with them, after the first few days, you can get all parts at the same time. 

She's mostly worse than Hydroid and nekros, because you can get all those parts in well under 12 hours.  

 

Hell, I got frost prime faster than I can get the new gal.  The only frame that's a "that could be worse" is vaubun, but at least with him you don't have to build parts before the others are allowed to pop up on missions. 

[frudi]

Really, she's worse than clan tech frames? How exactly is one extra day, which you can skip by rushing for plat, worse than 6 extra days of research that you can not skip or rush at all? Really, I'd like to hear a sensible explanation of that.

 

And worse than Hydroid? Is that why we have people still to this day farming beacons on Ceres to get him? Nekros, sure, maybe, if you don't get unlucky and have to run ODA too many times (remember that each key takes 1 hour to craft) AND you're well equipped enough to take him on easily (solo or have a group to do it with).

 

Compared to Primes? Yeah, it's easy to farm for the old Primes at this point, like Frost or Mag. But Loki? Or even Rhino? Sure, the 1% will farm like crazy and get the parts in the first day, but most people will take days or weeks to get all the parts.

[SpartanSK117]

Really, she's worse than clan tech frames? How exactly is one extra day, which you can skip by rushing for plat, worse than 6 extra days of research that you can not skip or rush at all? Really, I'd like to hear a sensible explanation of that.

 

And worse than Hydroid? Is that why we have people still to this day farming beacons on Ceres to get him? Nekros, sure, maybe, if you don't get unlucky and have to run ODA too many times (remember that each key takes 1 hour to craft) AND you're well equipped enough to take him on easily (solo or have a group to do it with).

 

Compared to Primes? Yeah, it's easy to farm for the old Primes at this point, like Frost or Mag. But Loki? Or even Rhino? Sure, the 1% will farm like crazy and get the parts in the first day, but most people will take days or weeks to get all the parts.

It's actually 36 hours for the parts, then a further three days so that's actually 108 hours which is 1.5 times more. People aren't complaining about the waiting, it's the fact that DE are forcing people to use platinum if they want Mirage's parts earlier. What separates her from all the other frames?

[Davoodoo]

Really, she's worse than clan tech frames? How exactly is one extra day, which you can skip by rushing for plat, worse than 6 extra days of research that you can not skip or rush at all? Really, I'd like to hear a sensible explanation of that.

 

And worse than Hydroid? Is that why we have people still to this day farming beacons on Ceres to get him? Nekros, sure, maybe, if you don't get unlucky and have to run ODA too many times (remember that each key takes 1 hour to craft) AND you're well equipped enough to take him on easily (solo or have a group to do it with).

 

Compared to Primes? Yeah, it's easy to farm for the old Primes at this point, like Frost or Mag. But Loki? Or even Rhino? Sure, the 1% will farm like crazy and get the parts in the first day, but most people will take days or weeks to get all the parts.

6 days are there only at beginning, after these pass its all ok, you could say that valkyr was even worse cause she was locked for a week with event at beginning of u11. Yea that was not ideal but didnt affect every player no matter how much time has passed.

 

And funny, when i decided that i wanted to get mag i got her on 1st day, same with ember, rhino i passed up to get boltor at 1st day but i still got him at 2nd day, loki prime i got at 1st day but that was just lucky spree with drop on 1st t4 surv. 

I know that not everyone can keep up with this but i also know that for some it might be worse.

 

I can certainly understand why ppl get upset about it. For me its barely exchange of few hours of farming for 24h waiting and its not like mirage doesnt require farming, you still need argon and 5 ciphers, ciphers require 2 keys from you, 1 for derelicts and 2nd for vault.

 

You cant tell me that quest system is great improvement, its not, they just exchanged rng while keeping grind and adding extra timewall.

 

I got to admit though quests are more accesible by not requiring specific keys(except vaults) but they still require keys and lock themselves behind multiple doors.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[frudi]

It's actually 36 hours for the parts, then a further three days so that's actually 108 hours which is 1.5 times more. People aren't complaining about the waiting, it's the fact that DE are forcing people to use platinum if they want Mirage's parts earlier. What separates her from all the other frames?

 

What separates her from all other frames is that she's new, which means people want her. That's what DE make their money off of, new content, and people's desire to get it as soon as possible. It may suck for some people to hear it, but it's the reality of F2P games. And it's why newer weapons and frames are always harder to get than old ones, whether because of clan tech research, lower drop rates or, in her case, longer waiting times. Personally, I like that DE are experimenting with different "obstacles" like this, I much prefer an extra day of waiting to frustrating RNG grind walls.

 

As for math - it's 3x12 hours for components + 72 hours for the frame itself. Yes, 108 hours total. Compared to normal frames, which take 12 + 72 = 84 hours. Like I said, just one day extra.

 

 

6 days are there only at beginning, after these pass its all ok, you could say that valkyr was even worse cause she was locked for a week with event at beginning of u11. Yea that was not ideal but didnt affect every player no matter how much time has passed.

...

 

Well we are at the beginning now, aren't we? You think there'd be more or less complaining if people had to wait for a total of 10 days after U14 to get Mirage without paying for her? Just look at all the complaining over every new clan tech weapon for your answer.

 

Yes, down the line, people will still be affected by the one extra day to get her. But really, the vast majority of complaining and I-WANT-THE-NEW-SHINY-NOOOOOW-itis happens right after release of new content. Personally, I think it's a good compromise - whoever wants her ASAP but free, can get her now, easily and quickly (compared to previous newly released frames). And whoever can live without her now, probably won't mind too much the one extra day after waiting weeks or months to get to her anyway. It's the impatient people complaining, after all, the ones that want her NOW, not a month from now. The ones who, ironically, would almost certainly complain even harder, if she was clan tech or behind a RNG wall.

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

You know what the difference is, once you research clantech its researched, but you cant research mirage, you cant overfarm it, now, in 6 months, in 2 years and till warframe dies mirage will always build for 4.5day, if they wont fix it.

 

I can understand some ppl having problem with research, i dont share their opinion but they have right to it.

Only problem i have with research is how chaotic it is, doesnt follow any logic excpet release date in what is put into clantech, but it isnt discussion about clantech.

 

If ppl have problem about research times, they make topics about it, if you agree you gonna make a post, if you dont see a problem you wont post at all, if youre cynical A******, you will say "everything is fine i dont see what your problem is" without giving any arguments or listening to any arguments

 

This topic is about mirage and same rules apply.

 

Also 3.5day is good compromise, we already agreed to that, when they increase it to 4.5 days it doesnt become better compromise right?? so it must be worse and i cant understand why ppl defend being treated worse everytime if they dont pay and dont tell me its free2play standard, you are the one whose paying game companies to make their games, if you dont pay them for S#&$ty content, you will eventually get better one.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[SpartanSK117]

You know what the difference is, once you research clantech its researched, but you cant research mirage, you cant overfarm it, now, in 6 months, in 2 years and till warframe dies mirage will always build for 4.5day, if they wont fix it.

 

I can understand some ppl having problem with research, i dont share their opinion but they have right to it.

Only problem i have with research is how chaotic it is, doesnt follow any logic excpet release date in what is put into clantech, but it isnt discussion about clantech.

 

If ppl have problem about research times, they make topics about it, if you agree you gonna make a post, if you dont see a problem you wont post at all, if youre cynical A******, you will say "everything is fine i dont see what your problem is" without giving any arguments or listening to any arguments

 

This topic is about mirage and same rules apply.

 

Also 3.5day is good compromise, we already agreed to that, when they increase it to 4.5 days it doesnt become better compromise right?? so it must be worse and i cant understand why ppl defend being treated worse everytime if they dont pay and dont tell me its free2play standard, you are the one whose paying game companies to make their games, if you dont pay them for S#&$ty content, you will eventually get better one.

There will always be a minority that will carry on paying for lacklustre content. Look at FIFA by EA. They hardly change the game every year and this year the major changes were cosmetic. Why? Because their main competition (Konami), hasn't made a fantastic game in a whole gaming generation. DE need's some competition in their genre then we might see some change. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by SpartanSK117

[Davoodoo]

There will always be a minority that will carry on paying for lacklustre. Look at FIFA by EA. They hardly change the game every year and this year the major changes were cosmetic. Why? Because their main competition (Konami), hasn't made a fantastic game in a whole gaming generation. DE need's some competition in their genre then we might see some change. 

EA is separate thing, they wont go bankrupt even if their product wont sell too well because they have bioware and dice who make great games and can carry this whole company alone and its usually not their fault that products come out like buggy battlefield 4 and bullS#&$ dlc mass effect 2 & 3

 

I would love to see ea go bankrupt due to their stupid decisions but that would also mean that dice and bioware also go down and that i cant let happen.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Sasquatchias]

EA is separate thing, they wont go bankrupt even if their product wont sell too well because they have bioware and dice who make great games and can carry this whole company alone and its usually not their fault that products come out like buggy battlefield 4 and bullS#&$ dlc mass effect 2 & 3

 

I would love to see ea go bankrupt due to their stupid decisions but that would also mean that dice and bioware also go down and that i cant let happen.

 

I would happily see Bioware go down if it stops stuff like Dragon Age: Inquisition from popping up.

[Fomiru]

You have never done one of the Legendary quests in WoW then.

 

Need to obtain more patience.

[frudi]

3.5 days is the compromise for old, "boring" frames. New frames (and weapons) have always been harder to get. What the situation with Mirage is going to be 6 or 24 months from now, I have no idea. Heck, Rhino or Hydroid are still pretty hard to get even now, months after their release (let alone Vauban). If Mirage still takes that one extra day to get by a similar point in the future, I will completely understand people complaining about it.

 

But my point is, for now, as a brand new frame, just after release, Mirage is surprisingly easy to get. Easier and quicker than any recent new frame. Of course, people have a right to complain, I even agree to the point that I wish she was even quicker to obtain (goes for all warframes, really). I'm just saying a little perspective and less exageration is in order.